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2017-18 If I Were GM


BigTed3
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3 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

The evolution of Marc Bergevin:

 

"Grit and character are very important"

"We're always looking to add players who speak French"

"I want guys who hate to lose"

"Carey Price should be back in a week or two"

"Michel Therrien is a Foxhole guy"

"I am not looking to trade PK Subban"

"If the fans want to blame someone, they should blame Marc Bergevin"

"I will not trade Sergachev or any of my top prospects"

"Markov and Radulov will be welcome back on my terms only"

"The answer is in that room"

 

Bolded is the most important quote imho.  When a person stakes their claim on "put it on me," then at some point they have to own it.  He's said repeatedly during his tenure he makes trades to improve the team, not to win popularity contests.  Well, he's failed at both so if its time to own those moves, its also time to resign.   

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29 minutes ago, maas_art said:

Bolded is the most important quote imho.  When a person stakes their claim on "put it on me," then at some point they have to own it.  He's said repeatedly during his tenure he makes trades to improve the team, not to win popularity contests.  Well, he's failed at both so if its time to own those moves, its also time to resign.   

He'll own it(maybe) in year 7 of the 5 year plan.

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1 hour ago, maas_art said:

Bolded is the most important quote imho.  When a person stakes their claim on "put it on me," then at some point they have to own it.  He's said repeatedly during his tenure he makes trades to improve the team, not to win popularity contests.  Well, he's failed at both so if its time to own those moves, its also time to resign.   

MB is like a honed politician; full of empty statements and promises.

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I think we're at the beginning of another "dark age" for the Habs.   Similar to the late 90s early oughts.      There's no simply fixes here.  

Most of the roster has to go, but some of the assets are virtually unmovable (Weber, Alzner) or of little value in return (Shaw, Deslauriers)

The players I'd keep regardless are :

Gallagher, Danault, Drouin, Bryon, Hudon, Petry, Carr, Lehkonen, Mete, Jerabek, Petry

Everyone else has to go.     As much as I like Galchenyuk and think he is immensely talented I believe his failure here and how his development was stunted by MT means he will probably never flourish here.    He needs to go to a smaller market where the spotlight isn't on him and he's not expected to be the saviour of the franchise.

 

The only conceivable way I can see the current roster making the playoffs this year or next is moving Weber for a legitimate 1C ... with that most of our lines work themselves out.     However MB is convinced 1C's aren't available and Weber isn't exactly the best chip to try and get one with, but he's the only one other GM's would view as "elite"

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If we really bit the bullet and rebuilt, we can move these pieces. A guy like Shaw would be desired, especially if keep some salary. I never thought Weber's contract was that bad, he likely won't play that much and when Doughty and Karlsson sign their new deals, his will seem like a bargain. They moved Phaneuf, they can move Weber. Price is playing well again, we need to move him too. 

I agree with your list on who to keep, except Petry. I think we could trade him too. 

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8 minutes ago, habsisme said:

If we really bit the bullet and rebuilt, we can move these pieces. A guy like Shaw would be desired, especially if keep some salary. I never thought Weber's contract was that bad, he likely won't play that much and when Doughty and Karlsson sign their new deals, his will seem like a bargain. They moved Phaneuf, they can move Weber. Price is playing well again, we need to move him too. 

I agree with your list on who to keep, except Petry. I think we could trade him too. 

Yeah I think Price for something good and roll the dice with Lindgren

And reason I'd like to keep Petry is he at least is a vet, who's played well and would provide some stability with the turnover on the D that trading everyone else would entail.

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2 hours ago, HabsAlways said:

I think we're at the beginning of another "dark age" for the Habs.   Similar to the late 90s early oughts.      There's no simply fixes here.  

 

Yup....the light we saw at the end of the tunnel was PK Subban.

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Oh my god. Someone on Hfboards jokingly suggested Lucic for Pacioretty and now I can't get that out of my head.

38 minutes ago, jennifer_rocket said:

How about pursuing Jonathan Marchessault in free agency this summer? I'm assuming we might have to move out a winger or two if we want to fix our D.

Would be a decent addition depending on the cost. Right now he's incredibly valuable at 750k but he might get overpaid as a 27 year old UFA. Although I guess cap space isn't really a concern if we're trading Pacioretty and re tooling, so it might be worth it to secure another solid middle six winger. 

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Nothing against Marchessault, but this team has plenty of middle 6 wingers. What we need are top 6 centers and top-tier D men. No sense in wasting money on overloading another position unless there's a trade in place to address one of the above needs. That was the issue this year: Bergevin went after Drouin but did nothing to fill his actual holes.

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7 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

Nothing against Marchessault, but this team has plenty of middle 6 wingers. What we need are top 6 centers and top-tier D men. No sense in wasting money on overloading another position unless there's a trade in place to address one of the above needs. That was the issue this year: Bergevin went after Drouin but did nothing to fill his actual holes.

he filled the only hole he knew, and got his token french player

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3 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

Nothing against Marchessault, but this team has plenty of middle 6 wingers.What we need are top 6 centers and top-tier D men. No sense in wasting money on overloading another position unless there's a trade in place to address one of the above needs. That was the issue this year: Bergevin went after Drouin but did nothing to fill his actual holes.

 I mostly like Marchessault at something like 4M as a stopgap during a retool.Trading Pacioretty is basically admitting to not competing this year or next, because otherwise you'd keep the guy that's scored 35G half a dozen times. Without Pacioretty the Habs have Lehkonen, Hudon, Shaw, and Byron as middle six wingers. If the team goes into sell mode after trading Pacioretty then Byron should probably be moved too and that further chips away at the forward depth, and if Hudon takes over as a 3C you're left with Lehkonen and Shaw. Maybe Scherbak fills a spot but if Scherbak is better than Marchessault that's a pretty good problem to have.

Signing Marchessault doesn't preclude the Habs from making other moves to bring in centers or defensemen. The Habs will have 15M in cap space next year with Danault and Jerabek as the only players of any consequence that need an extension so neither money nor cap space is an issue. I also don't think the Habs are anywhere near good enough on the wings to be talking about overloading, and especially not at RW. I know it's a bit contradictory to be talking about moderately overpaying a UFA winger during a rebuild but I think it's important not to just ice a team of plugs. I just look at the Sabres and Coyotes and I worry about penciling Scherbak and McCarron into 2nd and 3rd line roles without a Byron or a Marchessault around if they aren't ready. To me Marchessault or someone like that helps you ice a reasonable team during a retool and he'd still be a valuable guy on your 3rd line when you plan to contend.

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15 hours ago, Noob616 said:

Signing Marchessault doesn't preclude the Habs from making other moves to bring in centers or defensemen. 

Totally. I think the problem is that we've had a GM who for pretty much the last 6 years has made a ton of great complimentary moves (Danault, Weise, Benn, Petry, etc) but then never followed it up with the moves that will take us from middle-of-the-road to top end.   

MB is the guy who is on a sinking ship & instead of patching the hole, he's standing back admiring the very beautiful paint job he just did on the galley wall. 

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3 minutes ago, maas_art said:

Totally. I think the problem is that we've had a GM who for pretty much the last 6 years has made a ton of great complimentary moves (Danault, Weise, Benn, Petry, etc) but then never followed it up with the moves that will take us from middle-of-the-road to top end.   

MB is the guy who is on a sinking ship & instead of patching the hole, he's standing back admiring the very beautiful paint job he just did on the galley wall. 

Yeah absolutely. I like the idea of Marchessault under the premise "If I Were GM", because I'd be content to overpay for a complementary scorer to keep my team from becoming a gong show during a rebuild since the team will likely go into the offseason with ~12-14M in cap space with only Danault and Jerabek to re sign, and only Plekanec and a couple depth defensemen to replace. 

I can definitely see the frustration of MB signing another complementary player and this year's bargain bin version of Briere/Parenteau/Semin etc. (although I think Marchessault is better than those guys and is a better investment at age 27).

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Just playing around. :) It's about $40 million in forward salaries. I would advocate trading Max.

Jonathan Drouin ($5.5 million) - John Tavares ($10 million) - Brendan Gallagher ($3.75 million)

Artturi Lehkonen ($0.84 million) - Alex Galchenyuk ($4.9 million) - Jonathan Marchessault ($4 million)

Paul Byron ($1.17 million) - Phillip Danault ($2.5 million) - Andrew Shaw ($3.9 million)

Daniel Carr ($1 million) - Charles Hudon ($0.65 million) - Nikita Scherbak ($0.86 million)

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On 12/31/2017 at 7:28 PM, ChiLla said:

It's a freaking joke that we're actually asking ourselves whether Weber is a movable asset or not while we could have a 28 year old stud Dman on our roster instead. Well done, Marc. Well done.

I'm pretty sure that convo between MB and Poile was something

Poile :  Ok so you're looking to move Subban ... I presume you're wanting some sort of package that includes Josi or Ellis?

MB :  Weber

Poile :  Sorry. come again? <puts phone on mute> oh my god <takes phone off mute> ...  ok Weber ... what kind of package are you thinking?

MB :  One for One, straight up

Poile  ....

MB:  You still there?

Poile  One for one, straight up?

MB :  Yup ... deal?

Poile  Yeah I already faxed you the signed trade sheet

 

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15 minutes ago, HabsAlways said:

I'm pretty sure that convo between MB and Poile was something

Poile :  Ok so you're looking to move Subban ... I presume you're wanting some sort of package that includes Josi or Ellis?

MB :  Weber

Poile :  Sorry. come again? <puts phone on mute> oh my god <takes phone off mute> ...  ok Weber ... what kind of package are you thinking?

MB :  One for One, straight up

Poile  ....

MB:  You still there?

Poile  One for one, straight up?

MB :  Yup ... deal?

Poile  Yeah I already faxed you the signed trade sheet

 

if you have seen wolf of wall street, just picture the scene where he is on the phone closing someone at his new company, and the whole room is watching him. 

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1 hour ago, HabsAlways said:

I'm pretty sure that convo between MB and Poile was something

Poile :  Ok so you're looking to move Subban ... I presume you're wanting some sort of package that includes Josi or Ellis?

MB :  Weber

Poile :  Sorry. come again? <puts phone on mute> oh my god <takes phone off mute> ...  ok Weber ... what kind of package are you thinking?

MB :  One for One, straight up

Poile  ....

MB:  You still there?

Poile  One for one, straight up?

MB :  Yup ... deal?

Poile  Yeah I already faxed you the signed trade sheet

 

Poile said that he was very nervous to trade Weber and it took him several days to get back to Bergevin.  He nearly said no but the difference in age was the main thing that pushed him over the edge on his decision.  If only MB had been smart enough to realize that the age difference deserved at least an additional player or prospect coming our way. 

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the more i look back, the more obvious it is that PK needed to be moved. The guy was just not liked in the dressing room. 

Once you accept that, there was two options, move him for someone to try to win now, or rebuild. I would have gone for a rebuild. Traded PK to Edmonton for Draisaitl, Nurse, and a pick... something like that. 

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6 minutes ago, habsisme said:

the more i look back, the more obvious it is that PK needed to be moved. The guy was just not liked in the dressing room. 

Once you accept that, there was two options, move him for someone to try to win now, or rebuild. I would have gone for a rebuild. Traded PK to Edmonton for Draisaitl, Nurse, and a pick... something like that. 

sorry ...how is it obvious?  I cant even begin to imagine how you know this, but even if you are right this team made an ECF with him as our star. its gone directly into the toilet since he was traded.  guess last place is cool as long as everyone is friends? 

like i said before. if half the team hated him, then that half of the team can go. at least thats how you approach the situation if you are serious about winning. apparently we are playing houseleague here

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Its obvious because the team hated him. Changing that half of the team wouldn't have made much of a difference because the new half would have hated him too. Also, Weber IS a better defenseman, just older. PK is NOT as good as some of you claim he is. Doughty's comments about his next contract speak volumes about that. Weber was the best D man in Nashville, PK is not! Now there are other variables there but acting like PK is SO good and Weber sucks is just not true

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Hate is a strong word. I'd say it was jealousy and the one person who would be the most jealous would be Pacioretty with his 30 goals and miserable $4.5 million dollar salary.  I wonder how Patches feels now when he cashes that paycheck. Overpaid? 

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1 hour ago, habsisme said:

Its obvious because the team hated him. Changing that half of the team wouldn't have made much of a difference because the new half would have hated him too. Also, Weber IS a better defenseman, just older. PK is NOT as good as some of you claim he is. Doughty's comments about his next contract speak volumes about that. Weber was the best D man in Nashville, PK is not! Now there are other variables there but acting like PK is SO good and Weber sucks is just not true

Which part of the team hated him? The guys who invited him to their wedding? Or the ones who joked around with him on twitter? Or the ones that hung out with him at restaurants and clubs outside the rink? Players like Weise, Beaulieu, Galchenyuk, Pacioretty, Price, DSP, Markov, Gill, Bourque, Prust, and Weaver all fell into those categories. There were rumors Plekanec didn't like PK. But there are rumors some players don't like Weber or Pacioretty or others too. So take it for what it's worth. I don't know that there's any evidence any of the players felt PK needed to be traded. I don't think there's any evidence he was a cancer in the locker room, especially since both us and Nashville seemed to have done more winning with him than without him.

The only people for whom there appears to be evidence that there was hate there for PK are Michel Therrien and Marc Bergevin. Both men went out of their way to slam him in the media, to not support him for team Canada, to refuse to give him money and/or term on his contracts, to criticize him as a person as well as a player, etc. As far as I can see, the whole PK feud was not a player-player problem but an issue with two men in power who wanted a "team-first approach" and didn't like Subban. I don't even think it was the case that PK wasn't a team player - by all accounts, teammates say he was - it was more the fact that MT and MB couldn't stand him being in the public spotlight and distracting from the team concept. But that problem is on those two men and their putting their own egos ahead of winning. It's been a problem with MT/MB their entire regime here: they've gotten rid of all the players with personality and all those capable of handling the Montreal media well. The end result is a team made up of boring players playing a dull style and having no success.

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On 1/1/2018 at 10:46 PM, jennifer_rocket said:

How about pursuing Jonathan Marchessault in free agency this summer? I'm assuming we might have to move out a winger or two if we want to fix our D.

Looks like Vegas has different plans after all: https://www.tsn.ca/vegas-marchessault-nearing-6-year-extension-1.958125

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