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2017-18 If I Were GM


BigTed3
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I like Shaw as a player but the Eller-Shaw trade is beginning to look pretty short sighted. Plekanec is probably gone next year and it'd be really nice to have a guy like Eller who can instantly step in and replace him as a tough minutes ~30P 3C instead of another winger.

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3 hours ago, Noob616 said:

I like Shaw as a player but the Eller-Shaw trade is beginning to look pretty short sighted. Plekanec is probably gone next year and it'd be really nice to have a guy like Eller who can instantly step in and replace him as a tough minutes ~30P 3C instead of another winger.

I agree although Danault I think made Eller expendable. It was a huge risk - and I didnt think it would work - but credit to MB, Danault has been even better than Eller imho. 

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I cant help thinking about John Tavares.  Imagine a top line of  Drouin - Tavares - Galchenyuk.   Or, since JT can match up against anyone in the league, you go Drouin-Tavares-Gallagher  and then shelter a line of Lehkonen-Galchenyuk-Scherbak or something. Your third line is Byron-Danault-Shaw etc - what a massive increase in quality forwards by just adding one guy.

You'll note i didnt put Pacioretty in those scenarios because i think he's the guy we need to use to get JT.  He's a coveted player (bad season aside) and a 'hometown boy' (born an hour away).  If JT wont resign, NYI does have an elite talent in Barzal so they may consider moving JT while they still can. 

  Its a risky play.  Patches is signed one more year & therefore holds more value than impending free agent Tavares, but then, you wouldnt get JT  1 for 1 for patches unless there wasnt risk.   

Im not suggesting any illegal activities, but, MB is very good friends with JT's agent (Brisson) who was drafted in the minors the same year as him. Brisson didnt make the jump to the NHL but became an agent & guess who one of his clients was?  yup, MB.    John Tavares will decide where he goes & what he wants, but one has to wonder if MB could put out feelers on JT & whether he'd consider signing with us (or if he's absolutely positively going UFA).

 

 

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35 minutes ago, maas_art said:

A I agree although Danault I think made Eller expendable. It was a huge risk - and I didnt think it would work - but credit to MB, Danault has been even better than Eller imho. 

Yeah I kinda agree, ideally you're not keeping Danault, Eller, and aging Plekanec around but now in the span of a couple years Danault is kinda going to have to replace both Plekanec and Eller. Right now we have two actual proven NHL centers, Danault and Plekanec. Next year Plekanec will be gone, and if Danault fills his slot as a tough minutes 3C then we don't have a 2C and a 1C. The problem at C goes beyond just needing a 1C, we kinda have a 2C in Danault but I'm not super thrilled about him in the top 6 indefinitely, and Plekanec will leave a huge hole as a tough minutes 3C. Just having any genuine top 9 NHL centers like Eller would be better than continually having to do hail mary passes like trying to put Drouin in that role. 

An Eller in the hand is worth two Poehling's in the bush. If we still had Eller we could run 67-24-92 / 27-14-11 / 54-81-62 / 41-XX-XX and to me that's way better than what we have now. 

 

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2 minutes ago, Noob616 said:

Yeah I agree, but now in the span of a couple years Danault will have to be replacing both Eller and Plekanec. Right now we have two actual proven NHL centers, Danault and Plekanec. Next year Plekanec will be gone, and if Danault fills his slot as a tough minutes 3C then we don't have a 2C either. 

An Eller in the hand is worth two Poehling's in the bush.

 

phenomenal :4224::6280:

seriously though I dont think we appreciate how bad that move was and how much it has contributed to our current state of affairs.

eller was a big center who although not considered "gritty" was not shy about playing physical and was actually a fantastic boards and corners player. very strong on the puck and good at using his size and strength. he was also an excellent shutdown man who could go head to head with any teamsbest center, and had the hands to not only play with good players, but the skill level to keep up with other teams good players, which is a crucial distinction. very much like another 3c i was very fond of, radek bonk.  the skills didnt necessarily translate into points, but it made him effective against other skill players.

shaw is not a center, not a guy you can use to shut down another teams star, likes to hit but is not physically dominating, and although the point totals will end up similar , he is a less skilled player.

drouin eller danault > drouin danault plekanec  

we are actually going to give plek another contract because our C situation is so bad. 

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1 hour ago, Noob616 said:

An Eller in the hand is worth two Poehling's in the bush. If we still had Eller we could run 67-24-92 / 27-14-11 / 54-81-62 / 41-XX-XX and to me that's way better than what we have now. 

 

Haha.  Totally agree.  I dont mind shaw but the sequence of flipping eller for 2 picks then grabbing shaw with 2 (worse) picks was a mistake.  I definitely agree we'd be in much better shape with _____ Eller - Danault - Pleks/Whomever
 

1 hour ago, jeff33 said:

eller was a big center who although not considered "gritty" was not shy about playing physical and was actually a fantastic boards and corners player. very strong on the puck and good at using his size and strength. he was also an excellent shutdown man who could go head to head with any teamsbest center, and had the hands to not only play with good players, but the skill level to keep up with other teams good players, which is a crucial distinction. very much like another 3c i was very fond of, radek bonk.  the skills didnt necessarily translate into points, but it made him effective against other skill players.

shaw is not a center, not a guy you can use to shut down another teams star, likes to hit but is not physically dominating, and although the point totals will end up similar , he is a less skilled player.

drouin eller danault > drouin danault plekanec  

we are actually going to give plek another contract because our C situation is so bad. 

Also agree.  

The other thing about Eller is that when used in a situation with skilled wingers, he produced.  He's not the type of guy who can get points if you put him in a shut down role or play him with bottom six guys but every single time the EGG line was together, he produced.  All 3 of them did.  And guess what, Galchenyuk isnt a centre?  Eller is. And they looked great together.

Just another of of MB's blunders.  

I love the "Im not going to mortgage the future" line in the presser yesterday.   Well your trades speak louder than your words...

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2 hours ago, maas_art said:

I cant help thinking about John Tavares.  Imagine a top line of  Drouin - Tavares - Galchenyuk.   Or, since JT can match up against anyone in the league, you go Drouin-Tavares-Gallagher  and then shelter a line of Lehkonen-Galchenyuk-Scherbak or something. Your third line is Byron-Danault-Shaw etc - what a massive increase in quality forwards by just adding one guy.

You'll note i didnt put Pacioretty in those scenarios because i think he's the guy we need to use to get JT.  He's a coveted player (bad season aside) and a 'hometown boy' (born an hour away).  If JT wont resign, NYI does have an elite talent in Barzal so they may consider moving JT while they still can. 

  Its a risky play.  Patches is signed one more year & therefore holds more value than impending free agent Tavares, but then, you wouldnt get JT  1 for 1 for patches unless there wasnt risk.   

Im not suggesting any illegal activities, but, MB is very good friends with JT's agent (Brisson) who was drafted in the minors the same year as him. Brisson didnt make the jump to the NHL but became an agent & guess who one of his clients was?  yup, MB.    John Tavares will decide where he goes & what he wants, but one has to wonder if MB could put out feelers on JT & whether he'd consider signing with us (or if he's absolutely positively going UFA).

 

 

Every time I've thought to myself that MB had something going on and that's why he was doing (or not doing) this or that... I was wrong. JT would be reason to re-tool rather than rebuild but... I just don't believe it. 

Even then I'd be moving Pac for left shot defenseman first and foremost, not similar player

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Over 8 mill in Cap space. To use or not, is the dilemma that MB has created for himself. If i'm GM, I sit on it for now and do whatever it takes to fill that #1 top center we've been aching for going into next season. No more projects in a weak attempt to fill that hole. Time to get serious. Barring a complete failure to address that  glaring issue, then it's time to sell  IMO and get some promising youth in there.

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8 hours ago, H_T_L said:

Over 8 mill in Cap space. To use or not, is the dilemma that MB has created for himself. If i'm GM, I sit on it for now and do whatever it takes to fill that #1 top center we've been aching for going into next season. No more projects in a weak attempt to fill that hole. Time to get serious. Barring a complete failure to address that  glaring issue, then it's time to sell  IMO and get some promising youth in there.

Couldn't agree more, and to think that he traded away our most valuable asset in Sergachev for yet another winger who's all of a sudden supposed to be our 1st line center even though he never played the position before is complete lunacy. Seriously, centers do get traded, other GMs are capable of acquiring them, especially when you're willing to deal a highly-touted D prospect like Sergachev.

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I honestly think MB's only plan to fill the number 1 center role is offering Tavares a contract.

And if your only plan is a pending UFA who probably wouldn't choose Montreal in free agency (taxes, media scrutiny, poor team performance), then you're a terrible planner. He made his deal (Sergachev for Drouin). He acquired a winger and we haven't been able to convert him to a center.

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57 minutes ago, jennifer_rocket said:

I honestly think MB's only plan to fill the number 1 center role is offering Tavares a contract.

And if your only plan is a pending UFA who probably wouldn't choose Montreal in free agency (taxes, media scrutiny, poor team performance), then you're a terrible planner. He made his deal (Sergachev for Drouin). He acquired a winger and we haven't been able to convert him to a center.

He definitely seems to have tunnel vision.  Get player A at any cost.  Get rid of player B at any cost.  Instead of building up assets he lowers their value & then wonders why no one offers him good players.   Its a comedy of error but unfortunately the fans seem to be the punchline. 

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The oilers have major holes at wing

Attn: Marc Bergevin,
Marc, please read the above article.  Take note of all the stats pointing out how terrible the oilers have been on the wing while they have McDavid-Draitsatl-RNH-Strome down the middle!   Two of those guys are #1 centres on almost every team in the league, The other two are #1-2 on many.    

Call up Peter Chiarelli. 

Ask for something crazy  "Draitsaitl for Gallagher"  but then slowly start to work him into your corner (you know the way Davide Poile did with you??) & then drop the bomb:  The NHL's 2nd highest 5-on-5 goal scorer from 2011-2017, Max Pacioretty for RNH + a thrown in.  Pete's choice:  1st round pick or Nurse/Klefbom, we're not picky.

Get er done.
Thank you.

 

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Just now, Noob616 said:

RNH+Klefbom for Pacioretty is so crazy it just might work. 

I *think* it would actually make both teams better to be honest.  We'd be in much better shape turning a LW into a top centre + adding to our LD depth.   They would get an elite sniper who could just score.  I wouldnt be at all surprised to see Max break 50 next to McDavid or Draitsaitl for a full year. 

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9 minutes ago, maas_art said:

I *think* it would actually make both teams better to be honest.  We'd be in much better shape turning a LW into a top centre + adding to our LD depth.   They would get an elite sniper who could just score.  I wouldnt be at all surprised to see Max break 50 next to McDavid or Draitsaitl for a full year. 

Yeah I think it would be good for both sides, but in overall value it would be a pretty big win for the Habs. Normally I'd think a 24 year old top pair defender signed for 4.1M until he's 30 would be nearly untouchable but the Oilers are the Oilers. You have to wonder if they're comfortable enough with Nurse to consider a Sekera-Larsson / Nurse-Russell top 4. 

I also think the Habs have interesting cheap depth pieces to sweeten the pot, Benn and Byron aren't major pieces but I think they'd both be attractive to the Oilers at 1.1M. Especially Byron, he's a perfect fit for their speedy forwards.

 

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6 minutes ago, Noob616 said:

I also think the Habs have interesting cheap depth pieces to sweeten the pot, Benn and Byron aren't major pieces but I think they'd both be attractive to the Oilers at 1.1M. Especially Byron, he's a perfect fit for their speedy forwards.

For sure. As long as we're not adding in youth I have no problem putting a guy like you've mentioned into the deal.  Heck, if they want Alzner... :P

 

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50 minutes ago, Regis22 said:

Klefbom I heard is struggling

He is.  But if he wasnt, they wouldnt trade him.  Im not saying it wouldnt be a risk but Pacioretty only has 1 more sweetheart year. After that he's going to need a raise and playing next to mcdavid it might be a big one. 

I think Chiarelli would do RNH straight up for Patches but if Klefbom or nurse are both struggling a bit then nows the time to nab them. Put either one of the next to a healthy weber & watch them steady up in a hurry. 

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These are my trade deadline goals if I'm Bergevin (which is not to say we get all of this, but this is what I'm aiming for):

1. trade Benn for a 3rd rounder

2. trade Alzner for whatever anyone will give us.

3. trade Schlemko for a 5th rounder.

4. trade Pacioretty for one of

- Sam Steel, Marcus Petterson, and a 1st from Anaheim

- Robert Thomas, Vince Dunn, and a 1st from St. Louis

- Sam Bennett, Juuso Vilimaki, and a 2nd from Calgary

- RNH and Nurse from Edmonton

- Gabriel Vilardi, Kale Clague, and a 1st from LA

- Pierre-Luc Dubois and a 2nd from Clb

5. trade Plekanec for a 2nd rounder or a D prospect

6. offer Price to the Isles for Barzal... the Isles need a goaltender ASAP and I'd personally rather have Barzal as my 1C and live with Lindgren in goal.

 

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31 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

29ese are my trade deadline goals if I'm Bergevin (which is not to say we get all of this, but this is what I'm aiming for):

1. trade Benn for a 3rd rounder

2. trade Alzner for whatever anyone will give us.

3. trade Schlemko for a 5th rounder.

4. trade Pacioretty for one of

- Sam Steel, Marcus Petterson, and a 1st from Anaheim

- Robert Thomas, Vince Dunn, and a 1st from St. Louis

- Sam Bennett, Juuso Vilimaki, and a 2nd from Calgary

- RNH and Nurse from Edmonton

- Gabriel Vilardi, Kale Clague, and a 1st from LA

- Pierre-Luc Dubois and a 2nd from Clb

5. trade Plekanec for a 2nd rounder or a D prospect

6. offer Price to the Isles for Barzal... the Isles need a goaltender ASAP and I'd personally rather have Barzal as my 1C and live with Lindgren in goal.

 

No way you get any of those asks for Patches. You can get one high end young projected piece either a center or deeman that's it.

I like the idea of moving price, if Islander would give up Barzal for price. I would be smiling for the next ten years.

RNH and Nurse for Patches. Maybe Patches and Juslen for RNH. 

RNH is a center. +1, More vision in his left toe then [patches + 2, RNH is turning 25 this year Patches is turning 29 +3 RNH, PAtches can score +1 patches, RNH is a better playemaker +4 RNH

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15 minutes ago, Ravadak said:

No way you get any of those asks for Patches. You can get one high end young projected piece either a center or deeman that's it.

I like the idea of moving price, if Islander would give up Barzal for price. I would be smiling for the next ten years.

RNH and Nurse for Patches. Maybe Patches and Juslen for RNH. 

RNH is a center. +1, More vision in his left toe then [patches + 2, RNH is turning 25 this year Patches is turning 29 +3 RNH, PAtches can score +1 patches, RNH is a better playemaker +4 RNH

As I said, those were my asks as starting points. You don't go in and ask for one prospect. Bu that said, I think you're underrating Pacioretty. He's having an off-year but he has value as a scorer and a lot of people in the league covet players like him. It's simply not easy to find 30+ goal scorers, and he's done that repeatedly. Look at the Duchene trade. Lots of people thought Colorado wouldn't get what they wanted for him and they ended up getting a haul of picks and prospects. Pacioretty's a bit older than Duchene and he's a winger, but he's got a better offensive track record and he's on a cheaper deal for the same amount of leftover contract. Insiders like Dreger and Friedmann and McKenzie all seem to think Pacioretty will have high value in a trade. So I don't think it's unrealistic to go after 2-3 high-end pieces with more potential but less proven value.

As for RNH, he's the opposite of Pacioretty. He's having a good year, but he's actually been a bit disappointing up until this season. He's only hit 20 goals once in his career, and for what it's worth, Pacioretty has more assists than RNH the past 2 years, 3 years, 4 years, or 5 years. I don't know that you can just state that RNH has more vision or is a better playmaker, because while he might be, it hasn't yet translated into consistent results. From our end, RNH has value to us as a center because of our complete lack of players there, but I really don't think he has as much trade value as Pacioretty, who again has the better proven track record and is on the shorter, cheaper contract. Pacioretty's been consistent his entire career year in year out, whereas RNH has been up and down, and even in an off year for Pacioretty, his numbers are not that far off from RNH in what's considered a great year for him. IMO, Pacioretty for RNH and Nurse is a fair ask. We need players at those tow positions, but Edmonton is stocked at center and badly needs scoring wingers. So it could be a fit for both sides.

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The one difference is patch has before the start of next year at MOST as a huge trade asset. 

after that he is a rental and we have to take significantly less

I say we start a bidding war for him now and by the deadline at the latest you take the best offer and go with it

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1 hour ago, BigTed3 said:

Bob McKenzie reporting that the Sabres asking price for Kane is a 1st or 2nd round pick and a top prospect. Kane has baggage, he's a UFA after this year, and he simply doesn't have the pedigree Pacioretty has. The ask for Max should be justifiably higher.

Pacioretty for Evander Kane and a 1st or 2nd, I'd take that in a heartbeat!

Kane plays with attitude and gets in the dirty areas.

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