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2017-18 If I Were GM


BigTed3
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2 hours ago, habsisme said:

I dont think this will happen but this is exactly why i hate it when people say Weber is on a bad contract... bad contract for Nashville, not for habs or anyone else. As far as im concerned Weber is on almost on a 2nd pairing contract. 

Its not a terrible idea at all. Could make sense for the Sens

This is a good point, but I think the problem is the opportunity cost. The Sens could get a very nice haul of young picks/prospects for Karllson. Unless they truly think they are still in win-now mode, that would simply be a better idea than taking an aging defensman.

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13 minutes ago, MALMACIAN_CRUNCH said:

I don't watch a lot of Carolina games, but whats the scoop on Hanifin? Would it be worth kicking the tires around? Carolina looks to be getting a new GM and coach, perhaps we could scoop him up for a good price? How would he look beside Webber? What would the cost look like? Could it be worth it?

I suspect cost woudl be high.  Maybe Drouin +      Carolina, I think, intends to go with a youth movement so the only way they move a guy like NH is if we give them a young talent or 2. 

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6 minutes ago, maas_art said:

I suspect cost woudl be high.  Maybe Drouin +      Carolina, I think, intends to go with a youth movement so the only way they move a guy like NH is if we give them a young talent or 2. 

Yeah, Drouin might be a little steep for my liking. 

What about a top 5ish draft pick? (assuming we don't win the lotto, of course)

that might be intriguing to a GM starting fresh, two picks in the first half of the first round.

But would that be too much? Is Hanifin worth a 5th overall? 

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1 hour ago, MALMACIAN_CRUNCH said:

But would that be too much? Is Hanifin worth a 5th overall? 

Tough one.  He's probably worth that in most years (he's a former 4th or 5th overall himself) and he's young (21 i think?) and has a couple of years under his belt.  

In this year's draft, though, he might not be.  I guess your amateur and pro scouting groups would have to come together.     Obviously if we pick 1st its a no go. But between top 2 and top 6 there are varying opinions.  So your scouting dept may say 'no way we move that pick if players x, y and z are avaliable at whatever position we draft at.  If those guys are gone then maybe he's worth it.

I dont watch enough Carolina games to have a valid opinion.  Most guys seem to think he's guaranteed #3-4 and possibly a top pairing dman.  He's certainly established & I'd bet you dollars for donuts at least one guy picked in the top 5 does not pan out as an NHL star. So it really (as always) comes down to how good your scouts are. 

 

That said,  

Hanifin - Weber
Mete - Petry
Reilly/Valiev - Juulsen
Benn

is a heck of a lot better than what we saw last year.   We would need to get rid of Alzner and Schlemko asap though.   

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3 hours ago, MALMACIAN_CRUNCH said:

I don't watch a lot of Carolina games, but whats the scoop on Hanifin? Would it be worth kicking the tires around? Carolina looks to be getting a new GM and coach, perhaps we could scoop him up for a good price? How would he look beside Webber? What would the cost look like? Could it be worth it?

Hanifin is a very good young defenceman, but I highly doubt Carolina would make him available. It is definitely rumored that their owner wants to make a splash and acquire players who would help them now (enter Max Pacioretty or Shea Weber...). However, I don't think they'll want to move a key member of their D corps in exchange for Pacioretty. They'd be more likely to move a guy like Haydn Fleury or Jake Bean, who haven't made an impact yet at the NHL level. They might move out a player like Faulk, but I'd have to believe Hanifin and Slavin are near untouchable. The key player we'd want to try and draw out of Carolina is their young center prospect Martin Necas.

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On 4/24/2018 at 6:09 PM, maas_art said:

Tough one.  He's probably worth that in most years (he's a former 4th or 5th overall himself) and he's young (21 i think?) and has a couple of years under his belt.  

In this year's draft, though, he might not be.  I guess your amateur and pro scouting groups would have to come together.     Obviously if we pick 1st its a no go. But between top 2 and top 6 there are varying opinions.  So your scouting dept may say 'no way we move that pick if players x, y and z are avaliable at whatever position we draft at.  If those guys are gone then maybe he's worth it.

I dont watch enough Carolina games to have a valid opinion.  Most guys seem to think he's guaranteed #3-4 and possibly a top pairing dman.  He's certainly established & I'd bet you dollars for donuts at least one guy picked in the top 5 does not pan out as an NHL star. So it really (as always) comes down to how good your scouts are. 

 

That said,  

Hanifin - Weber
Mete - Petry
Reilly/Valiev - Juulsen
Benn

is a heck of a lot better than what we saw last year.   We would need to get rid of Alzner and Schlemko asap though.   

I agree, that looks like a heck of a lineup. Not sure if there is much we can do about Alzner, that will be a tough sell. We should definitely, definitely try. Schlemko might be an easier move. One way or another we need to free up some more cap space. As much as I love the guy, if we could move A. Shaw off our books, that would be a hefty relief as well. If were going to have Sherb and Byron fighting between 2nd and 3rd RW, Shaw is just a touch overpaid for 4th line duty.

As for the draft, I haven't looked to closely at it just yet. Lotto gold aside, there are what look to be some interesting players kicking around. But a legit first pairing LD, primed and ready to go is intriguing. Something to chew on at least.

23 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

Hanifin is a very good young defenceman, but I highly doubt Carolina would make him available. It is definitely rumored that their owner wants to make a splash and acquire players who would help them now (enter Max Pacioretty or Shea Weber...). However, I don't think they'll want to move a key member of their D corps in exchange for Pacioretty. They'd be more likely to move a guy like Haydn Fleury or Jake Bean, who haven't made an impact yet at the NHL level. They might move out a player like Faulk, but I'd have to believe Hanifin and Slavin are near untouchable. The key player we'd want to try and draw out of Carolina is their young center prospect Martin Necas.

Faulk wouldn't do us much good, but Fleury and Bean would for sure be worth a look. I might be a little more interested in Fleury. Bean might have more offensive upside, but Fleury don't look to bad. Older, bigger, ready to go. His stats look a little like Mete's, which ain't a bad thing. His +/- don't look to shabby either, especially in contrast with the rest of his team's. Not sure what a fair offer for him would look like, but if I were in MB's shoes, I'd be looking long and hard at Carolina. 

Also, not knowing anything about Necas, for now I'll just take your word for it :)

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47 minutes ago, MALMACIAN_CRUNCH said:

Faulk wouldn't do us much good, but Fleury and Bean would for sure be worth a look. I might be a little more interested in Fleury. Bean might have more offensive upside, but Fleury don't look to bad. Older, bigger, ready to go. His stats look a little like Mete's, which ain't a bad thing. His +/- don't look to shabby either, especially in contrast with the rest of his team's. Not sure what a fair offer for him would look like, but if I were in MB's shoes, I'd be looking long and hard at Carolina. 

Also, not knowing anything about Necas, for now I'll just take your word for it :)

I'd be happy to have any of Bean, Fleury, and/or Necas. Given the Canes' owner's desire to win now, they might be a team that's interested in Pacioretty or Weber or maybe even Price, as well as Galchenyuk. I could see a deal around Weber for Bean + Necas. I'm less certain that they'd be willing to part with Necas for just Pacioretty with one year left on his deal, but they've been rumored to be willing to part with those two D men to acquire some scoring. I think we'd want more than just Bean or Fleury for Max though.

Necas is a 6'1" right-handed Czech center, former #12 overall pick from 2017. He's a good skater with excellent vision and above average stick-handling skill. Viewed as a responsible defensive player and with good hockey sense. Needs to bulk up a little bit though, but is reasonably strong on his skates for being a bit lighter. His stock has risen since the draft last year, but even at the draft, some scouts had him ranked as a top 5-10 pick. He projects as a top 6 center, and he's drawn comparisons to the likes of David Krejci, Claude Giroux, and Evgeni Kuznetsov. Not a lock to be a top 6 player, but he definitely has the potential to be there in a few years. I'd prefer Robert Thomas over him, but if Thomas or Borgstrom aren't available, Necas could be a possibility.

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1 minute ago, BigTed3 said:

I'd be happy to have any of Bean, Fleury, and/or Necas. Given the Canes' owner's desire to win now, they might be a team that's interested in Pacioretty or Weber or maybe even Price, as well as Galchenyuk. I could see a deal around Weber for Bean + Necas. I'm less certain that they'd be willing to part with Necas for just Pacioretty with one year left on his deal, but they've been rumored to be willing to part with those two D men to acquire some scoring. I think we'd want more than just Bean or Fleury for Max though.

Necas is a 6'1" right-handed Czech center, former #12 overall pick from 2017. He's a good skater with excellent vision and above average stick-handling skill. Viewed as a responsible defensive player and with good hockey sense. Needs to bulk up a little bit though, but is reasonably strong on his skates for being a bit lighter. His stock has risen since the draft last year, but even at the draft, some scouts had him ranked as a top 5-10 pick. He projects as a top 6 center, and he's drawn comparisons to the likes of David Krejci, Claude Giroux, and Evgeni Kuznetsov. Not a lock to be a top 6 player, but he definitely has the potential to be there in a few years. I'd prefer Robert Thomas over him, but if Thomas or Borgstrom aren't available, Necas could be a possibility.

I think if we were to do a real rebuild, Carolina would absolutely be the team to trade with. I'd trade Price and take back Darling, and get a king's ransom on that alone

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  • 2 weeks later...

Regarding Tavares potentially coming to the Habs... (Doubtful IMHO)

Speculation is that Tavares is good friends with Weber and Price and that it could attract him to join the Habs. But, looking at this from an opposite angle... what if Weber (in particular) and perhaps Price could be what would keep Tavares with the Islanders if they could be traded there? I s it reasonable to think the Islanders are closer to contention than the Habs are at this time. And that they are missing fewer key components to do so.

I believe the Islanders could have the cap space if they wanted to go all in. They would have to send back players to allow for the cap space going forward to be sure.

I would seriously consider this scenario. The question would be, that in such a rebuild, what would the Habs get in return and what would the Islanders have to give up?

(After writing this, I noticed later that a similar suggestion was made in the Rumors thread... but with only Price being the topic of trade)

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I still can get excited about the upcoming season because if we do get Tavares and an LD, i think it can really turn things around significantly.

Having said that, I would love an outright rebuild. We could take back Greiss contract too. 

I just dont think it will happen. MB doesn't believe in rebuilds. He believes in winning now. That's how we got in this mess to begin with (not by trading PK... sorry had to bring it up)

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3 minutes ago, jennifer_rocket said:

Does anyone think offering Pacioretty for Necas would be a good move?

IMO, needs to bulk up more (6'1", 167#), and his stats aren't impressive. He's a few years away from being a NHLer.

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Just now, kinot-2 said:

IMO, needs to bulk up more (6'1", 167#), and his stats aren't impressive. He's a few years away from being a NHLer.

Gotcha gotcha. So we need to search for a center prospect that's more NHL-ready than Necas. Especially in a potential one-for-one deal involving Max.

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4 hours ago, jennifer_rocket said:

Does anyone think offering Pacioretty for Necas would be a good move?

 

4 hours ago, kinot-2 said:

IMO, needs to bulk up more (6'1", 167#), and his stats aren't impressive. He's a few years away from being a NHLer.

Agreed about Necar having to bulk up a little to be a force in the NHL. That said, if you don't sign JT and you're dealing Pacioretty, the Cup window isn't in the next two years and you have time to wait for Necar. Given the value of recent trades though, I believe Max is worth more than just Necar alone. I'd do Pacioretty for the #2 overall, but if we're talking about Max for Necar, I'd want Bean included in the trade too.

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Its hard to say. If we get Tavares we need to trade Pacioretty (or Galchenyuk) to get a #2 C or puck moving top 4 LD. If we don't then we should trade Pacioretty for prospects, not anyone that is "NHL ready" I really don't see the point 

As for the value of recent trades... name a winger who fetched a big return? We have to face facts and realize the are strengths are at positions no one values, wing and goaltending. We get what we can get and leave it at that 

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4 hours ago, habsisme said:

Its hard to say. If we get Tavares we need to trade Pacioretty (or Galchenyuk) to get a #2 C or puck moving top 4 LD. If we don't then we should trade Pacioretty for prospects, not anyone that is "NHL ready" I really don't see the point 

As for the value of recent trades... name a winger who fetched a big return? We have to face facts and realize the are strengths are at positions no one values, wing and goaltending. We get what we can get and leave it at that 

But how many elite-scoring wingers have been dealt lately? If we look just at deadline deals (or just before) this season as an example... Tomas Tatar is an inferior player to Pacioretty, and he garnered a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd. Evander Kane, about to become a UFA, yielded a 1st, a 4th, and a prospect, despite his baggage issues. Ryan Hartman also got dealt for a 1st, 4th, and a prospect. Rick Nash, at age 34, got dealt for a 1st, Ryan Spooner, Beleskey, a prospect, and a 7th rounder. And even though they're not wingers, we all know what Matt Duchene yielded as a return. Phil Kessel is an elite winger and he was dealt for a 1st, 3rd, Nick Spaling, Kasperi Kapanen, and Scott Harrington, albeit Toronto gave up a 2nd, Tim Erixon, and Tyler Biggs too, which makes it harder to judge Kessel's true value.

In general, I think Pacioretty is better than Tara, Kane, Hartman, Nash, and just as good as Kessel (judging Kessel at the time he was dealt). He's a better player than Duchene too, for my money, albeit Duchene is a center. In any case, I don't think there's any question that fair market value for Pacioretty is a 1st round pick AND 1-2 additional picks or prospects at a minimum. I don't think it would be unfair to ask Carolina for the #2 pick or to ask for Necar and Bean. I don't think it would be unfair to ask Stl for Thomas and Dunn or instead Kyrou and a 1st. I don't think Borgstrom and a 1st is unreasonable either. They don't have to accept those deals, but those asks are certainly very reasonable. Most of the insiders feel Pacioretty has a lot of value on the trade market, so I'd believe that at the draft we get a decent return if we decide to trade him. 

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13 minutes ago, habs1952 said:

I can't see Carolina wanting Patches if they're in rebuild mode. Why would they give up youth for age?

Tom Dundon recently bought the team and is apparently frustrated by missing the playoffs. He fired Francis because he wasn't happy about the inaction and slow re-build and supposedly he wants to "make a splash" and add a player or players who can help him win now, get to the playoffs, re-excite the fan base, and put money in his pockets. McKenzie has said the team will shop the #2 pick if they need to, to make that happen. Hence my suggestions.

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6 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

Tom Dundon recently bought the team and is apparently frustrated by missing the playoffs. He fired Francis because he wasn't happy about the inaction and slow re-build and supposedly he wants to "make a splash" and add a player or players who can help him win now, get to the playoffs, re-excite the fan base, and put money in his pockets. McKenzie has said the team will shop the #2 pick if they need to, to make that happen. Hence my suggestions.

I don't know what they will do but to me Carolina has a very good young team. Their biggest issue is goaltending. I would love to trade Price to them if we were doing a full rebuild (and take back Darling). They are the perfect team to trade Price to... Pacioretty, I don't see why they need him, and certainly not for the #2 overall, they will get a good young winger on a rookie contract, why trade that for one with one year left? But who knows what they are thinking

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1 hour ago, BigTed3 said:

But how many elite-scoring wingers have been dealt lately? If we look just at deadline deals (or just before) this season as an example... Tomas Tatar is an inferior player to Pacioretty, and he garnered a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd. Evander Kane, about to become a UFA, yielded a 1st, a 4th, and a prospect, despite his baggage issues. Ryan Hartman also got dealt for a 1st, 4th, and a prospect. Rick Nash, at age 34, got dealt for a 1st, Ryan Spooner, Beleskey, a prospect, and a 7th rounder. And even though they're not wingers, we all know what Matt Duchene yielded as a return. Phil Kessel is an elite winger and he was dealt for a 1st, 3rd, Nick Spaling, Kasperi Kapanen, and Scott Harrington, albeit Toronto gave up a 2nd, Tim Erixon, and Tyler Biggs too, which makes it harder to judge Kessel's true value.

In general, I think Pacioretty is better than Tara, Kane, Hartman, Nash, and just as good as Kessel (judging Kessel at the time he was dealt). He's a better player than Duchene too, for my money, albeit Duchene is a center. In any case, I don't think there's any question that fair market value for Pacioretty is a 1st round pick AND 1-2 additional picks or prospects at a minimum. I don't think it would be unfair to ask Carolina for the #2 pick or to ask for Necar and Bean. I don't think it would be unfair to ask Stl for Thomas and Dunn or instead Kyrou and a 1st. I don't think Borgstrom and a 1st is unreasonable either. They don't have to accept those deals, but those asks are certainly very reasonable. Most of the insiders feel Pacioretty has a lot of value on the trade market, so I'd believe that at the draft we get a decent return if we decide to trade him. 

you're right, I have to say I forgot about those wingers being traded and I agree the Pacioretty is better than all of them (though hes coming of a very bad year). We should at least get par value. I hope the GM in the league agree

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15 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

Tom Dundon recently bought the team and is apparently frustrated by missing the playoffs. He fired Francis because he wasn't happy about the inaction and slow re-build and supposedly he wants to "make a splash" and add a player or players who can help him win now, get to the playoffs, re-excite the fan base, and put money in his pockets. McKenzie has said the team will shop the #2 pick if they need to, to make that happen. Hence my suggestions.

In that case I still can't see them going after Patches.

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