2017-18 If I Were GM

[BigTed3]

^^ I would absolutely 100% trade Gallagher if the right deal was there, but I would do that with just about anyone. In fact, like you, if I were MB, I would be actively asking other GM's what they'd give up for Gallagher. But unlike Pacioretty (whose trade value will go down as his current contract expires) or Weber/Price (whose trade value will go down with time because of age), Gallagher is a guy who is still young enough to be part of a re-built roster as well. He can still be a valuable asset in 2 years or in 4 years, which is enough time to get yourself back into contender status. I do worry about Gallagher's ability to hold up physically long term and I also think he's hit his peak in terms of performance (unlike Drouin, Galchenyuk, Lehkonen, Hudon, etc, whom you probably want to keep because their values could go up still). But I'm less pressed to trade Gallagher because he's younger and on a deal that you can build around going forward too.

[maas_art]

52 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

^^ I would absolutely 100% trade Gallagher if the right deal was there, but I would do that with just about anyone. In fact, like you, if I were MB, I would be actively asking other GM's what they'd give up for Gallagher. But unlike Pacioretty (whose trade value will go down as his current contract expires) or Weber/Price (whose trade value will go down with time because of age), Gallagher is a guy who is still young enough to be part of a re-built roster as well. He can still be a valuable asset in 2 years or in 4 years, which is enough time to get yourself back into contender status. I do worry about Gallagher's ability to hold up physically long term and I also think he's hit his peak in terms of performance (unlike Drouin, Galchenyuk, Lehkonen, Hudon, etc, whom you probably want to keep because their values could go up still). But I'm less pressed to trade Gallagher because he's younger and on a deal that you can build around going forward too.

Agreed.

 

[Ravadak]

On ‎2017‎-‎11‎-‎19 at 10:13 AM, jennifer_rocket said:

Carey Price to Edmonton? I mean, I guess we'd take back Cam Talbot, but his contract expires in 2019. I don't know who else we'd want. People seem to talk about Darnell Nurse a lot... Him?

That would be a waste, and your not getting Leon Draisaitl, but  I would shoot for rnh, nurse and Jesse Puljujarvi

any trade involving price has to include 3 pieces  a center, dee,  and a elite scorer prospect, healthy price should be worth all three to Edmonton. they really are not giving up cores piece at any position, and we need all those pieces. if they wanted a vet down the middle give them pleks also and pay half his salary. 

[habsisme]

I think everyone is missing the point. If you rebuild and teams are trading for these players, they don't want to give up players in their line up. We trade our  team for draft picks and prospects that have not worked out yet. Players drafted in last 2 years and draft picks. Thats what rebuilding is. Not good young players... never gonna happen camt think of any example of it ever happening. 

[jeff33]

35 minutes ago, habsisme said:

I think everyone is missing the point. If you rebuild and teams are trading for these players, they don't want to give up players in their line up. We trade our  team for draft picks and prospects that have not worked out yet. Players drafted in last 2 years and draft picks. Thats what rebuilding is. Not good young players... never gonna happen camt think of any example of it ever happening. 

thats what i find most disturbing.  like its such a slow turn from ok FINE  ....the team isnt good enough, maybe we do need to rebuild....and then the first reaction is well if we trade patch it makes a 30 goal hole in the lineup.  and from what ive heard this is bergevins mentality (he doesnt want futures) and its just wrong. thats why :

1.firing bargainboy is step 1 in the rebuild, because he wont do it properly

2. we have to hire someone who is going to do it and do it right

Marinaro said it so good today. He said, if you are doing it right, you are trading everyone on the roster over the age of 27 for futures, but we wont do that because we traded this guy for that guy, and signed this guy for that.

In so many words, bergy wont trade weber for example because its admitting that trading subban was a mistake and he will die on that hill. and this team is full of similar examples

he has to be the first to go. its very clear what needs to happen here and he absolutely wont do it. 

 

 

 

 

[eldag]

1 hour ago, jeff33 said:

thats what i find most disturbing.  like its such a slow turn from ok FINE  ....the team isnt good enough, maybe we do need to rebuild....and then the first reaction is well if we trade patch it makes a 30 goal hole in the lineup.  and from what ive heard this is bergevins mentality (he doesnt want futures) and its just wrong. thats why :

1.firing bargainboy is step 1 in the rebuild, because he wont do it properly

2. we have to hire someone who is going to do it and do it right

Marinaro said it so good today. He said, if you are doing it right, you are trading everyone on the roster over the age of 27 for futures, but we wont do that because we traded this guy for that guy, and signed this guy for that.

In so many words, bergy wont trade weber for example because its admitting that trading subban was a mistake and he will die on that hill. and this team is full of similar examples

he has to be the first to go. its very clear what needs to happen here and he absolutely wont do it. 

Agree completely Jeff ... however I fear it will not happen any time soon until Molson feels real pain from the blunders that have been made.

 

 

 

 

[maas_art]

13 hours ago, Ravadak said:

That would be a waste, and your not getting Leon Draisaitl, but  I would shoot for rnh, nurse and Jesse Puljujarvi

any trade involving price has to include 3 pieces  a center, dee,  and a elite scorer prospect, healthy price should be worth all three to Edmonton. they really are not giving up cores piece at any position, and we need all those pieces. if they wanted a vet down the middle give them pleks also and pay half his salary. 

If you trade Carey Price you're getting 1 of three things:  1 for 1 for an elite player (Draitsaitl), a package of players (RNH + Nurse + Prospect)  or a boatloat of Picks/prospects (Nurse + Puljujarvi + 2 firsts +++ )

All 3 could be fine depending upon what the team's philosophy is, but the worry is that MB is sinking and doesnt have one.  His plan (if he ever had one) has completely backfired and now he's just trying not to sink with the ship.

As for your point about not getting Draisaitl - I agree its unlikely but Edmonton has a wealth of talent down the middle.  They could trade us Draisatl and still have McDavid-RNH-Strome which is arguably the best 1-2-3 in the league even without LD.  The question of whether a 1 for 1  or a 1 for 3 makes more sense for us is definitely the key though. 
 

13 hours ago, habsisme said:

I think everyone is missing the point. If you rebuild and teams are trading for these players, they don't want to give up players in their line up. We trade our  team for draft picks and prospects that have not worked out yet. Players drafted in last 2 years and draft picks. Thats what rebuilding is. Not good young players... never gonna happen camt think of any example of it ever happening. 

Not totally true.  A team will often give up players in a position where they are strong, for an elite player in a position where they are weak.  Edmonton (or nashville or whomever) isnt giving you their #1C and their #1LD etc etc, sure but they may well give you a #2C (RNH) knowing they have other guys who can step into that role and they may give you a top end young defensman (Nurse, or Klefbom) etc.   So it doesnt have to be players who are 20 or under.   From our standpoint we may want that, mind you, depending upon if we're doing a rebuild or a retool. 

12 hours ago, jeff33 said:

thats what i find most disturbing.  like its such a slow turn from ok FINE  ....the team isnt good enough, maybe we do need to rebuild....and then the first reaction is well if we trade patch it makes a 30 goal hole in the lineup.  and from what ive heard this is bergevins mentality (he doesnt want futures) and its just wrong. thats why :

1.firing bargainboy is step 1 in the rebuild, because he wont do it properly

2. we have to hire someone who is going to do it and do it right

Marinaro said it so good today. He said, if you are doing it right, you are trading everyone on the roster over the age of 27 for futures, but we wont do that because we traded this guy for that guy, and signed this guy for that.

In so many words, bergy wont trade weber for example because its admitting that trading subban was a mistake and he will die on that hill. and this team is full of similar examples

he has to be the first to go. its very clear what needs to happen here and he absolutely wont do it.

Totally.  MB is definitely not the right guy for the job - and more of a concern - im not convinced he even think his plan has failed yet.  Which means rather than moving Patches, Weber, Price etc he may well look at trading guys like Galchenyuk, Mete etc to help us win "now" even though we clearly seem to be unsuitable to do that. 

[eldag]

Two desperate teams often make the best trade partners ... case in point: Edmonton and Montreal

Montreal has a frantic need for a #1 centre and has some aging and very expensive assets that are not positioned to help the team win ie Price and Weber. Edmonton has a frantic need for a veteran high end blue liner and better goaltending but has some high end offensive talent hence: The Trade

Weber and Price to Edmonton for Draisaitl and Talbot

Rationale: Montreal has not had a high end centre for so long I cannot remember who would qualify. Draisaitl answers that void and together with the other scoring forwards on the team could form a very respectable offensive attack. Weber is still a highly valued blue liner around the league but he does not bring what Montreal needs to add on their back end which is speed and offensive skills. Their defensive structure will still need to evolve. Price is the best goaltender on the planet but his contribution will not be enough to push Montreal over the top without offense and some puck moving defensive help. Getting Talbot will provide a capable tandem pairing with Lindgren.

I think BOTH teams would benefit immensely from such a trade and while the Habs may have to take back some of the Price salary, they have the cap room. Both teams would become more respected contenders immediately and Montreal could then concentrate on fixing their back end issues.

Phone lines are now open ......  

[maas_art]

1 hour ago, eldag said:

Two desperate teams often make the best trade partners ... case in point: Edmonton and Montreal

Montreal has a frantic need for a #1 centre and has some aging and very expensive assets that are not positioned to help the team win ie Price and Weber. Edmonton has a frantic need for a veteran high end blue liner and better goaltending but has some high end offensive talent hence: The Trade

Weber and Price to Edmonton for Draisaitl and Talbot

Rationale: Montreal has not had a high end centre for so long I cannot remember who would qualify. Draisaitl answers that void and together with the other scoring forwards on the team could form a very respectable offensive attack. Weber is still a highly valued blue liner around the league but he does not bring what Montreal needs to add on their back end which is speed and offensive skills. Their defensive structure will still need to evolve. Price is the best goaltender on the planet but his contribution will not be enough to push Montreal over the top without offense and some puck moving defensive help. Getting Talbot will provide a capable tandem pairing with Lindgren.

I think BOTH teams would benefit immensely from such a trade and while the Habs may have to take back some of the Price salary, they have the cap room. Both teams would become more respected contenders immediately and Montreal could then concentrate on fixing their back end issues.

Phone lines are now open ......  

While I 100% agree that Edmonton & Montreal are both in need of a shakeup and do actually make a lot of sense as trading partners (and I think Edmonton may have interest in both to an extent) I dont think they would ever take both in a trade.  Thats just such a huge $$ commitment & they already have a lot of money invested in McDavid, RNH, Lucic, Sekera etc.  Yes, we'd be taking Draitsaitl & Talbot's contracts but Thats roughly $13m for 2 years then Talbot is UFA.  They'd be taking back what, $17m for the next 8 years?  I dont see even crazy Chiarelli making that mistake.

I do, however, think that Weber would be of huge interest to Edmonton. You wouldnt get Draisaitl but you might get RNH + Nurse.   I know that your trade proposal is predicated on a rebuild but I think if you move a guy like Weber you HAVE to get a defenseman back in return. I think we can all agree we got fleeced in the PK deal but Weber is still consistently the best we've got and losing him would make our horrible defense downright abysmal. 

I do think its all moot as long as MB is GM though. I just cant see him trading Weber & thereby admitting he made a huge mistake in that deal.  I think he's more likely to move Price and while I think Price could possibly bring even more than Weber Im not sure Edmonton would bite - even though im sure Chiarelli would be tempted. 

[BigTed3]

Agreed with Jed. Would be hard for one team to take back both Weber and Price's contracts, and if we gave a team like Edmonton both, we'd probably get less in return and have to take back a salary dump too (like a Lucic)... I think we'll get more value for each guy trading them separately. Supposedly, Edmonton is looking hard for defencemen. Perfect opportunity to dangle Shea Weber in front of them (assuming his supposed knee injury isn't an impediment to trade). I think you could easily ask for Nurse + RNH + a pick or prospect... if they didn't want to give up RNH because of the year he's having, maybe they'd be open to discussing Draisailt after all. And barring that too, then I think you go after Nurse, Puljujarvi, and a 1st (with no lottery protection!).

[Ravadak]

I think the best starting piece for this team is Price. Starting piece to trade. And I think it would be Edmonton or Islanders.  Edmonton can afford to unload RNH, DN, and Puljujarvi. We would obtain 3 core pieces. All young and all have tremedous skill. It also does not really put any dent in the oilers. They can likely find a trade partner for Talbot or they could also add Talbot and pleks in the deal.  Now they one of the best players in the world in both positions nets and center. At very little cost to the core.

We add core pieces to all three areas we require help in. Scoring center and dee.

Not sure what we could get from the islanders. They have a boat load of young talent, but no goaltending. I think that trade would hinge on Tavares resigning both for price and Tavares. 

 

[jennifer_rocket]

Edmonton has some excellent assets, but would they really trade Leon Draisaitl? I feel like Draisaitl and McDavid are off limits.

[maas_art]

5 hours ago, jennifer_rocket said:

Edmonton has some excellent assets, but would they really trade Leon Draisaitl? I feel like Draisaitl and McDavid are off limits.

Obviously know one knows what Chiarelli might do, but i think the only "off limits" player there is McDavid. He's the only guy (probably in the whole league) who is peerless.  Maybe Crosby is still better right now but for how long?  Draisaitl is probably close to untouchable but if you consider him a natural centre they have McDavid-Draisaitl-RNH-Strome   On paper thats 3 first line centres and a 3rd.  So if you had the right deal in place i think they consider it.   Most any team would be comfortable going with McDavid-RNH-Strome as their top 3 centres.   RNH is also more cap-friendly than Draisaitl from Edmonton's standpoint.

Even though media guys are saying Carey Price could bring back the most in a trade, I actually think that in edmonton's case, if you want to pry Draisatil away you'd have to send them Weber.  Weber-Nurse or Weber-Klefbom changes the whole dynamic of their blueline and I *think* you'd see them improve vastly.  It would be a very bold move for both teams but i think it would benefit them immediately and us long-term.  It would effectively end our season (if its not done already) because that would be a huge hole on the blueline- BUT - you could then start moving assets to replenish the D corps and you would start with a foundation of Drouin - Draisatl - Lehkonen   Galchenyuk - Danault - Gallagher  etc.  I doubt it would be a 1 for 1.  There would likely have to be some picks/players involved but I think those would be the 2 core pieces. 

Pacioretty would probably bring you a package of picks and young players like Colorado got for Duchene.    Is there even the remotest chance MB makes a move like this?  Not on your life. I just cant see him going into rebuild mode. 

[eldag]

5 minutes ago, maas_art said:

Obviously know one knows what Chiarelli might do, but i think the only "off limits" player there is McDavid. He's the only guy (probably in the whole league) who is peerless.  Maybe Crosby is still better right now but for how long?  Draisaitl is probably close to untouchable but if you consider him a natural centre they have McDavid-Draisaitl-RNH-Strome   On paper thats 3 first line centres and a 3rd.  So if you had the right deal in place i think they consider it.   Most any team would be comfortable going with McDavid-RNH-Strome as their top 3 centres.   RNH is also more cap-friendly than Draisaitl from Edmonton's standpoint.

Even though media guys are saying Carey Price could bring back the most in a trade, I actually think that in edmonton's case, if you want to pry Draisatil away you'd have to send them Weber.  Weber-Nurse or Weber-Klefbom changes the whole dynamic of their blueline and I *think* you'd see them improve vastly.  It would be a very bold move for both teams but i think it would benefit them immediately and us long-term.  It would effectively end our season (if its not done already) because that would be a huge hole on the blueline- BUT - you could then start moving assets to replenish the D corps and you would start with a foundation of Drouin - Draisatl - Lehkonen   Galchenyuk - Danault - Gallagher  etc.  I doubt it would be a 1 for 1.  There would likely have to be some picks/players involved but I think those would be the 2 core pieces. 

Pacioretty would probably bring you a package of picks and young players like Colorado got for Duchene.    Is there even the remotest chance MB makes a move like this?  Not on your life. I just cant see him going into rebuild mode. 

If Bergevin actually got Edmonton to deal Draisaitl for Weber and no other Montreal roster players involved, I would take back 20 of the worst things I have ever said about him. For Edmonton ... such a trade would be exponentially worse than the P.K. for Weber catastrophe and would probably land Chiarelli in a psyche ward for at least 30 days of observation ........   IMHO not going to happen but ....... Dare to Dream!  

[maas_art]

19 minutes ago, eldag said:

If Bergevin actually got Edmonton to deal Draisaitl for Weber and no other Montreal roster players involved, I would take back 20 of the worst things I have ever said about him. For Edmonton ... such a trade would be exponentially worse than the P.K. for Weber catastrophe and would probably land Chiarelli in a psyche ward for at least 30 days of observation ........   IMHO not going to happen but ....... Dare to Dream!  

Its all about selling the sizzle.  Chiarelli bought into the hype about Lucic. He bought into the hype about Larsson.   He has a history of valuing grit and character.  He also has the luxury of dealing from an area his team is strong (centre) for an area they are weak (defense). Weber is still considered to be one of the best Dmen in the league by many, many GMs. If we were going to the Olympics you can bet he'd be on that roster.  

I am pretty sure there's a deal to be had.  Sure, maybe we have to include another non-core player or a top prospect but I believe you could make it work.  It would be like the Joe Thornton deal - where in hindsight its absolutely baffling, but the Bruins knew what they wanted (and it worked, they won the cup shortly thereafter).   In a vacuum Draisaitl may be worth more than Weber but based on the Oiler's needs right now, Chiarelli may value what Weber could bring to his roster more than another elite scoring forward.  But MB would have to sell him on it, for sure. 

Unfortunately Im almost positive Marc Bergevin wont because it would be admitting what a huge mistake the Weber-Subban deal was. 

[jwlk]

Wont happen, MB will not move weber, he praises this guy

[kinot-2]

If I were GM, I would trade Mitchell to LA for a 5th round pick. 

[BigTed3]

10 minutes ago, kinot-2 said:

If I were GM, I would trade Mitchell to LA for a 5th round pick. 

So you wouldn't ask for that to be conditionally made a 4th if LA makes the playoffs?

[rkgoalie]

wow, the big trade we have all been waiting for 

[jennifer_rocket]

24 minutes ago, kinot-2 said:

If I were GM, I would trade Mitchell to LA for a 5th round pick. 

DId... you... become Marc Bergevin...?

[kinot-2]

28 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

So you wouldn't ask for that to be conditionally made a 4th if LA makes the playoffs?

No,,, because I like to play fast and loose with my players.

 

 

15 minutes ago, jennifer_rocket said:

DId... you... become Marc Bergevin...?

Not yet,,,, but I'm working on it.

 

[ramcharger440]

Hmmm. what would i do if i was suddenly made GM...... I think i would trade Price if i could to get the best center i possibly could with picks thrown in. next i would trade Patches to get the best Dman i could a puck mover is a must one with a couple of years in the league at most hopefully we could get a pick or two there too. i would keep a core of Drouin Galchenyuk Lehkonen Hudon Danault Gallagher. i would try to move Shaw if i could get the right player back i would move Pleks if i could and unless he is willing to take a huge pay drop i would not take him back next year. if the patches trade gets us the mobile reliable puck mover we need on d i think Webber will be fine for a few more seasons Benn has been playing better lately so has Petry but Alzner is so bad! i am shocked, he has to go hoefully we could at least get some picks or a prospect for him. in net i like Lindgren he is no price at the top of his game but i am thinking he would do well for us if we can clean up or game with some better players. i would also think about a coaching change, i am underwhelmed by some of Juliens decisions this year. JJ has to go as defensive coach i see nothing i like out of him. and #1 i would revamp our farm clubs coaching staff because we don't develop our players well enough down there. all th oter spots we need to fill should come from our farm, there are good players there i just feel we ruin them and never get to see the true potential they have.

[maas_art]

The longer Weber is out (and we win) the longer you wonder if MB would consider moving him. 

The return would have to include a young defensman, obviously, but you have to wonder if turning Weber into several assets to fill holes we have around our roster would benefit us more than the man-mountain.

On the one hand I dont think MB would do it (would it be admission of the failure of the Subban/Weber deal?) but on the other, I have always felt MB made the deal not expecting Weber to retire with us (meaning he'd grab him for a few years and flip him).  This is awfully early but would a package of a top 2 centre, a puck moving defenseman & a pick/prospect be enough for MB to let him go?     Edmonton is the obvious choice.  Chiarelli makes it no secret he wants a defensman & he's said a #1 RHD is his 'dream.'  Well they dont come much more high profile than Weber.   I am sure most of us would make this deal but would Chiarelli?

Weber

for

RNH + Nurse + 1st +  prospect (i dont think you're getting Puljujarvi but you could ask )

Up front we'd be miles ahead.  Adding RNH not only shores up our top 6 but it also allows us to potentially move a guy like Pacioretty and get back that #1RD we lost).   On the back end it would be dicey but right now it is most of the time when Weber isnt on the ice anyway. We get out from under a contract that could be scary, very soon, and we get younger in the process. 

 

 

[HabsRuleForever]

I like this as a first line also....haha

 

The longer Weber is out (and we win) the longer you wonder if Molson would consider firing MB. 

[habs1952]

2 hours ago, maas_art said:

The longer Weber is out (and we win) the longer you wonder if MB would consider moving him. 

The return would have to include a young defensman, obviously, but you have to wonder if turning Weber into several assets to fill holes we have around our roster would benefit us more than the man-mountain.

On the one hand I dont think MB would do it (would it be admission of the failure of the Subban/Weber deal?) but on the other, I have always felt MB made the deal not expecting Weber to retire with us (meaning he'd grab him for a few years and flip him).  This is awfully early but would a package of a top 2 centre, a puck moving defenseman & a pick/prospect be enough for MB to let him go?     Edmonton is the obvious choice.  Chiarelli makes it no secret he wants a defensman & he's said a #1 RHD is his 'dream.'  Well they dont come much more high profile than Weber.   I am sure most of us would make this deal but would Chiarelli?

Weber

for

RNH + Nurse + 1st +  prospect (i dont think you're getting Puljujarvi but you could ask )

Up front we'd be miles ahead.  Adding RNH not only shores up our top 6 but it also allows us to potentially move a guy like Pacioretty and get back that #1RD we lost).   On the back end it would be dicey but right now it is most of the time when Weber isnt on the ice anyway. We get out from under a contract that could be scary, very soon, and we get younger in the process. 

 

 

If we continue to win without Weber I agree we should get as much a possible for him in a trade but on the other hand if we win without him wouldn't it be beneficial to make a 'decent' deal just to get rid of his cap hit?