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#22 Karl Alzner 2017-18


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#22 Karl Alzner

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Position: Defence
Shoots: Left
Birthplace: Burnaby, BC, CAN 6UKXtFw.png
Birth date: 24 September 1988
Age: 28
Height: 6' 3"
Weight: 219 lbs
Drafted by: Washington
Draft Year: 2007 Round 1 (5th Overall)

Stats | NHL.com | Contract Info

OwnThePuck HERO Chart (http://ownthepuck.blogspot.com):

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  • 2 months later...

We'll see if the regular season goes any differently, but what a colossal mistake by Bergevin. The guy lucks out at the expansion draft by not only having Vegas pass by Hudon but take an albatross contract like Emelin's off our hands. Instead of using the money wisely, Bergevin goes out and piles all of his savings and then some on a defenceman who actually looks slower than Emelin (albeit hopefully a better decision-maker). To boot, there were rumors MB was actively trying to reacquire Emelin. I don't really get it. Alzner is the poster boy for Bergevin's regime... make a mistake, undo it, then make an even bigger one in its place that negates any of the good you just did.

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7 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

We'll see if the regular season goes any differently, but what a colossal mistake by Bergevin. The guy lucks out at the expansion draft by not only having Vegas pass by Hudon but take an albatross contract like Emelin's off our hands. Instead of using the money wisely, Bergevin goes out and piles all of his savings and then some on a defenceman who actually looks slower than Emelin (albeit hopefully a better decision-maker). To boot, there were rumors MB was actively trying to reacquire Emelin. I don't really get it. Alzner is the poster boy for Bergevin's regime... make a mistake, undo it, then make an even bigger one in its place that negates any of the good you just did.

This, especially to the bolded part.

I think Alzner is an NHL caliber defensman and probably is a #4 on many teams but with the defense we have, he was such a terrible fit - and thats even before you break down what will be a very bad contract.  


I really dont know what MB is thinking half the time.  

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39 minutes ago, maas_art said:

This, especially to the bolded part.

I think Alzner is an NHL caliber defensman and probably is a #4 on many teams but with the defense we have, he was such a terrible fit - and thats even before you break down what will be a very bad contract.  


I really dont know what MB is thinking half the time.  

Alzner is sold as a #4 D man, but his numbers suggest he's pretty clearly a third-pairing guy. Players like Gorges and Weaver and Emelin and Sopel and Mara get touted as being great shot blockers and tough defenders but they're not providing anything that's difficult to find. Just look at our organization: even with the terrible D play we've had this pre-season, Mete and Gelinas have already out-played Alzner and they're a heck of a lot cheaper. On a good team, Alzner is a solid 5-6 guy but he's not somebody you want to count on in your top 4. Petry played pretty badly next to Emelin last year but really great next to Markov... guessing Alzner will be much closer to the former than the latter.

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11 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

Alzner is sold as a #4 D man, but his numbers suggest he's pretty clearly a third-pairing guy. Players like Gorges and Weaver and Emelin and Sopel and Mara get touted as being great shot blockers and tough defenders but they're not providing anything that's difficult to find. Just look at our organization: even with the terrible D play we've had this pre-season, Mete and Gelinas have already out-played Alzner and they're a heck of a lot cheaper. On a good team, Alzner is a solid 5-6 guy but he's not somebody you want to count on in your top 4. Petry played pretty badly next to Emelin last year but really great next to Markov... guessing Alzner will be much closer to the former than the latter.

I dont disagree he's looked bad - like not even top 6 bad - but I really dont put any stock in the pre-season.  Ive watched my share of capitals games & I think he is still a serviceable #4 on the right team.  But like i said on this roster, he's a terrible fit.  I dont think he and Petry will be the match made in heaven management seems to think & you're right, if we dont have the right partner for him, he'll be at best a third pairing guy. 

Its ridiculous really. We have a really solid right defense corps but im not sure we have a single guy on LD who i would consider a legitimate top 4.   Schlemko may be the best of the bunch & we still havent seen him play.

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19 minutes ago, maas_art said:

I dont disagree he's looked bad - like not even top 6 bad - but I really dont put any stock in the pre-season.  Ive watched my share of capitals games & I think he is still a serviceable #4 on the right team.  But like i said on this roster, he's a terrible fit.  I dont think he and Petry will be the match made in heaven management seems to think & you're right, if we dont have the right partner for him, he'll be at best a third pairing guy. 

Its ridiculous really. We have a really solid right defense corps but im not sure we have a single guy on LD who i would consider a legitimate top 4.   Schlemko may be the best of the bunch & we still havent seen him play.

As I posted in the lines thread, I'm liking the idea of

Schlemko-Weber

Gelinas-Petry

Mete-Benn

Don't know that I'd give Mete 1st pairing duty, but he could be serviceable and complement the stay-at-home veteran Benn fairly well. Putting some blind faith in management's opinion that Schlemko can play with Weber, but on paper, he seems like a decent plug-in. And Gelinas is the best of the rest in my view and at least provides some offence next to Petry. I don't see Alzner fitting in next to Weber (two slow guys with weak puck-moving skills), Petry (who has failed playing with Emelin before) nor Benn (two very defensive defencemen with little else to bring), so where do you put him? Alzner can be a good 5-6 guy (maybe a 4 in stretch) and certainly help the PK, but to do that, he needs to be paired with a guy who can skate and move the puck, just like the rest of the D men on this squad. We have way too many stay-at-home, sluggish defensive types and no one to complement them unless we keep Mete. Just a really bad job of building this D crew from Bergevin IMO.

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8 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

As I posted in the lines thread, I'm liking the idea of

Schlemko-Weber

Gelinas-Petry

Mete-Benn

Don't know that I'd give Mete 1st pairing duty, but he could be serviceable and complement the stay-at-home veteran Benn fairly well. Putting some blind faith in management's opinion that Schlemko can play with Weber, but on paper, he seems like a decent plug-in. And Gelinas is the best of the rest in my view and at least provides some offence next to Petry. I don't see Alzner fitting in next to Weber (two slow guys with weak puck-moving skills), Petry (who has failed playing with Emelin before) nor Benn (two very defensive defencemen with little else to bring), so where do you put him? Alzner can be a good 5-6 guy (maybe a 4 in stretch) and certainly help the PK, but to do that, he needs to be paired with a guy who can skate and move the puck, just like the rest of the D men on this squad. We have way too many stay-at-home, sluggish defensive types and no one to complement them unless we keep Mete. Just a really bad job of building this D crew from Bergevin IMO.

Yeah, Its definitely better than what we'll probably see to start the year. 

Im almost ready to try a Weber-Petry pairing & hope the other 2 pairs fall into place.  

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  • 3 weeks later...
1 hour ago, jennifer_rocket said:

Man, this signing is so disappointing. And it's not like Karl is going to all of a sudden turn into an amazing top-4 defender. Is it too soon to be looking at the buyout calculator tool on Capfriendly?

I don't see the upside of Alzner over Emelin so far. If I were given the choice, I would take Emelin's remaining contract over the one MB gave this guy. At least Emelin (mistakes and all) gave us the odd big hit to cheer about.

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1 hour ago, jennifer_rocket said:

Man, this signing is so disappointing. And it's not like Karl is going to all of a sudden turn into an amazing top-4 defender. Is it too soon to be looking at the buyout calculator tool on Capfriendly?

Its not good thats for sure.  I think in the right circumstances he's a top 4 but i dont know if thats with us.   He's having an heck of a time adapting to Julien's system it seems. 

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1 hour ago, maas_art said:

Its not good thats for sure.  I think in the right circumstances he's a top 4 but i dont know if thats with us.   He's having an heck of a time adapting to Julien's system it seems. 

Don't see any circumstances in which he's top 4. All his numbers in Washington suggested he was a 5-6 defenceman, and that was on a much better team. He's slow, he's aging, he's overpaid, he's on too long a contract, and he provides no offence. Not much upside there, and FWIW I would also take Emelin over what I've seen from Alzner thus far.

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7 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

Don't see any circumstances in which he's top 4. All his numbers in Washington suggested he was a 5-6 defenceman, and that was on a much better team. He's slow, he's aging, he's overpaid, he's on too long a contract, and he provides no offence. Not much upside there, and FWIW I would also take Emelin over what I've seen from Alzner thus far.

He would need the right partner to be sure.  You could play him next to a guy like Suter and i would almost guarantee he'd look like a (solid) top 4.  He's got very good positioning but he sorely lacks in other areas & would need the right partner to compensate.  Despite guys like Petry being goog puck-movers I dont think we have anyone that is the right complement to him & its why this signing was bad from the get-go.  We could all see it, why couldnt Bergevin? 

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25 minutes ago, maas_art said:

He would need the right partner to be sure.  You could play him next to a guy like Suter and i would almost guarantee he'd look like a (solid) top 4.  He's got very good positioning but he sorely lacks in other areas & would need the right partner to compensate.  Despite guys like Petry being goog puck-movers I dont think we have anyone that is the right complement to him & its why this signing was bad from the get-go.  We could all see it, why couldnt Bergevin? 

But then most NHL defenemen could be passable in the top 4 playing next to Subban or Karlsson or the right guy. Komisarek looked great next to Markov, the Sens were using Marc Methot on their top pairing next to Karlsson, and so on. Doesn't mean these guys by themselves are viable top 4 guys. If a star defenceman can make anyone look good, then why not opt for a younger, faster, cheaper option? Why not just play Mete and Lernout and Davidson and save yourself 4M a year?

As for Bergevin, he plays general manager the same way he played the game. He likes grinders and tough guys and guys with character because that's what he was taught to value when he was in the league. I don't think he dislikes skill, I don't think he fails to recognize skill, I just think he doesn't value it as much as he values things like shot-blocking and going hard to the net and making the big hit and hustling back on defence. And so he's built his team in that image. Alzner is the perfect Marc Bergevin type D man and clearly the guy MB targeted first in free agency... words that get tossed around about Alzner included reliable and safe and stay-at-home and dependable and gritty. That's what Bergevin loves to hear.

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6 hours ago, maas_art said:

He would need the right partner to be sure.  You could play him next to a guy like Suter and i would almost guarantee he'd look like a (solid) top 4.  He's got very good positioning but he sorely lacks in other areas & would need the right partner to compensate.  Despite guys like Petry being goog puck-movers I dont think we have anyone that is the right complement to him & its why this signing was bad from the get-go.  We could all see it, why couldnt Bergevin? 

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5 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

But then most NHL defenemen could be passable in the top 4 playing next to Subban or Karlsson or the right guy. Komisarek looked great next to Markov, the Sens were using Marc Methot on their top pairing next to Karlsson, and so on. Doesn't mean these guys by themselves are viable top 4 guys. If a star defenceman can make anyone look good, then why not opt for a younger, faster, cheaper option? Why not just play Mete and Lernout and Davidson and save yourself 4M a year?

As for Bergevin, he plays general manager the same way he played the game. He likes grinders and tough guys and guys with character because that's what he was taught to value when he was in the league. I don't think he dislikes skill, I don't think he fails to recognize skill, I just think he doesn't value it as much as he values things like shot-blocking and going hard to the net and making the big hit and hustling back on defence. And so he's built his team in that image. Alzner is the perfect Marc Bergevin type D man and clearly the guy MB targeted first in free agency... words that get tossed around about Alzner included reliable and safe and stay-at-home and dependable and gritty. That's what Bergevin loves to hear.

So he would have some value in a trade... what could we get for him?

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5 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

As for Bergevin, he plays general manager the same way he played the game. He likes grinders and tough guys and guys with character because that's what he was taught to value when he was in the league. I don't think he dislikes skill, I don't think he fails to recognize skill, I just think he doesn't value it as much as he values things like shot-blocking and going hard to the net and making the big hit and hustling back on defence. And so he's built his team in that image. Alzner is the perfect Marc Bergevin type D man and clearly the guy MB targeted first in free agency... words that get tossed around about Alzner included reliable and safe and stay-at-home and dependable and gritty. That's what Bergevin loves to hear.

Someone tell MB and his staff that the  game is changing . No more cement heads, younger players ( kids ) with speed are making the NHL . It's a skating game now

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13 hours ago, Habs_Hockey_Nutz said:

So he would have some value in a trade... what could we get for him?

I dont think we offered him a contract completely out of the realm of others, meaning there are other GMs who would have paid him similarly (reports suggested he had around 10 offers).  Obviously in those cases, they didnt have to give up assets to sign him, and presumably some teams filled the hole.  But id imagine you'd at least have a handful of GMs who would still be interested.  My guess is that the best you could get for him are picks or prospects, and maybe another 3rd pairing body. 

Id do it, but i highly doubt MB would.  Mind you, if Schlemko comes in & takes Alzner's spot, so that he's bumped to our third pairing, maybe MB tries to right his wrong. 

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9 minutes ago, maas_art said:

I dont think we offered him a contract completely out of the realm of others, meaning there are other GMs who would have paid him similarly (reports suggested he had around 10 offers).  Obviously in those cases, they didnt have to give up assets to sign him, and presumably some teams filled the hole.  But id imagine you'd at least have a handful of GMs who would still be interested.  My guess is that the best you could get for him are picks or prospects, and maybe another 3rd pairing body. 

Id do it, but i highly doubt MB would.  Mind you, if Schlemko comes in & takes Alzner's spot, so that he's bumped to our third pairing, maybe MB tries to right his wrong. 

You're such a comedian, Jed. :4224:

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