State of the Habs

[Larry-Launstein-Jr]

It's now mid-summer, and before you know it, training camp and the exhibition season will be here. I wonder how any new free agents the Habs get will fit in and what the overall team prognosis will be. And who will stay and who will go once training camp starts. And how the recent contract for Carey Price will either help or hinder the Habs in getting more players. I still saw scoring punch and lack of depth as the major problems last season. Any thoughts?

[CANADIENS27]

How does he expect to sign any good players when he keeps giving them away for nothing other than grit and character?  

 

 

[maas_art]

On 7/10/2017 at 1:51 PM, Larry-Launstein-Jr said:

It's now mid-summer, and before you know it, training camp and the exhibition season will be here. I wonder how any new free agents the Habs get will fit in and what the overall team prognosis will be. And who will stay and who will go once training camp starts. And how the recent contract for Carey Price will either help or hinder the Habs in getting more players. I still saw scoring punch and lack of depth as the major problems last season. Any thoughts?

My guess, we come to terms with Markov, and maybe add one more forward.  I think we need to add another puck-moving defensman,  ideally one who can play top 4 minutes, but i dont think its going to happen.  I think MB believes we can go into the season with a top four of  Alzner-Weber  Markov-Petry    I dont mind Alzner and I could even see him on the second pairing next to petry but I do not believe he and Shea will be a good pairing at all.  I also dont like the idea of swapping them because i dont think Markov can handle even close to a full season on the top pair.

Up front I think MB and CJ believe one of Drouin or Galchenyuk can, and will, be our #1C    That leaves Pleks and Danault to battle for #2 and #3 (with Hudon nipping at their heels).  On the wing we're already looking at a pretty good lineup but if a guy like Jagr came cheap enough I could see MB taking a chance. 

I dont think we'll see any major moves before the pre-season but I think that point MB may make a move if he doesnt like his top 4 (of if we havent made a deal with Markov). 

[Regis22]

 

[Habs_Hockey_Nutz]

15 hours ago, maas_art said:

My guess, we come to terms with Markov, and maybe add one more forward.  I think we need to add another puck-moving defensman,  ideally one who can play top 4 minutes, but i dont think its going to happen.  I think MB believes we can go into the season with a top four of  Alzner-Weber  Markov-Petry    I dont mind Alzner and I could even see him on the second pairing next to petry but I do not believe he and Shea will be a good pairing at all.  I also dont like the idea of swapping them because i dont think Markov can handle even close to a full season on the top pair.

Up front I think MB and CJ believe one of Drouin or Galchenyuk can, and will, be our #1C    That leaves Pleks and Danault to battle for #2 and #3 (with Hudon nipping at their heels).  On the wing we're already looking at a pretty good lineup but if a guy like Jagr came cheap enough I could see MB taking a chance. 

I dont think we'll see any major moves before the pre-season but I think that point MB may make a move if he doesnt like his top 4 (of if we havent made a deal with Markov). 

I get both sides of the coin when it comes to Markov... loyalty is one thing, but reality is what should be the basis for any decision. IMHO... Markov has made his own bed and seriously needs to sleep on it.Other very good to great d-men have accepted one year contracts at this stage in their careers... why not Markov?

That said, I do not think things have to be looked at as dire if Markov opts out. Perhaps there is another way to look at the the Habs defense by having another puck mover on the right side rather than the left.  The issue about who plays with Weber shouldn't be one if, as some believe, he is so good... and the current left side does have some options I believe. Alzner, Benn, and Schlemko represent experience and the NHL rookie, Jerabek, may surprise. At this point, I seriously believe a player like Cody Franson could pay dividends... he is a right-hand puck mover that has size and can play strong minutes when needed.

Look at it this way... the Weber pair could actually represent a shut down pairing vs. other teams top lines. That would leave the Petry and Franson pairings to drive the offense. Ice-time could be shared more evenly and I suggest, would benefit a player like Weber over an 82 game schedule.

As far as the forwards are concerned I think there is enough there to work with when supported by what I believe could be a very balanced defense. For now I would say save the balance of cap-space available for future considerations.

 

[Larry-Launstein-Jr]

I'm not so sure about the forwards. I see Pleks getting near the end and still need to see more out of Galchenyuk. He's not bad, but I think he needs to be better. Scoring has been a problem the last couple of years, and they need one or two guys whose primary function is to score (and also play some good defense).

[maas_art]

9 hours ago, Habs_Hockey_Nutz said:

I get both sides of the coin when it comes to Markov... loyalty is one thing, but reality is what should be the basis for any decision. IMHO... Markov has made his own bed and seriously needs to sleep on it.Other very good to great d-men have accepted one year contracts at this stage in their careers... why not Markov?

Yeah.  What bugs me about Markov is that he purportedly wants both term and money.    By the sound of things Bergevin will give him $6m for 1 year.  But Markov wants 2 at that price.   I am curious if MB would go 2 years at $4m or if 2 years is out of the question no matter what. 

The issue about who plays with Weber shouldn't be one if, as some believe, he is so good.

Weber is who he is.  Clearly a downgrade on PK in almost every category but i think its pretty obvious he is better if you put the right player next to him.  If he's an elite defensman should you have to worry about who you pair him with? No. But it is what it is.  I think we have to make the right choice or we simply wont get as much out of Weber as we need to. 

 

At this point, I seriously believe a player like Cody Franson could pay dividends... he is a right-hand puck mover that has size and can play strong minutes when needed.Look at it this way... the Weber pair could actually represent a shut down pairing vs. other teams top lines. That would leave the Petry and Franson pairings to drive the offense. Ice-time could be shared more evenly and I suggest, would benefit a player like Weber over an 82 game schedule.

I would prefer a guy like Markov simply because i think he'd be better all around.  But if we cant make a deal happen im not opposed to a guy like Franson in a situation like you've outlined.    I have a feeling thats what they are going to try (Alzner-Weber as a shut down pair and pairs 2-3 as offense) but i worry about how it will work since i think 1/2 the game will feature Alzner-Weber.    I suppose there's a chance CJ has a different plan (ask Weber to play less of a shut down role and be more freewheeling for example - although i think his vision could do it, i dont think his skating could).  Who knows.   Will make for an interesting season i think. 

[habs1952]

2 hours ago, maas_art said:

 

I would prefer a guy like Markov simply because i think he'd be better all around.  But if we cant make a deal happen im not opposed to a guy like Franson in a situation like you've outlined.    I have a feeling thats what they are going to try (Alzner-Weber as a shut down pair and pairs 2-3 as offense) but i worry about how it will work since i think 1/2 the game will feature Alzner-Weber.    I suppose there's a chance CJ has a different plan (ask Weber to play less of a shut down role and be more freewheeling for example - although i think his vision could do it, i dont think his skating could).  Who knows.   Will make for an interesting season i think. 

ROTFLMAO!!!! That would be admitting trading PK was a mistake. 

[Habs=stanleycup]

Habs are in a HUGE bit of a pickle this coming season unless we get quality offence.

[jeff33]

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/three-biggest-losers-nhl-off-season-far/

...yeah. pretty much. keep shrinking that window marc. dont worry we'll win every game 1-0. surely THIS year

[habs_93]

I'm much more concerned about our 5-on-5 performance than special teams, personally. I don't know which is a more worrying thought: a Weber-Alzner first pairing, or having both Weber AND Alzner in the top 4.

[Walrus_26]

State of the Habs 2017/18?

In a bit of a state.

Swapping Radulov for Drouin isn't a bad move (although it cost us Sergachev) and Drouin still has room to grow further.  GallyA staying with the club is also a win - perhaps we can employ a personal sports psychologist to work with him though?  I still think we're light by one genuine top 6 forward.

However, if we accept the limits on our offensive prowess, we're still 2 defenders short of the sort of top 4 we'd need to genuinely contend with it.  Alzner in isolation isn't a low quality player at all, but we don't need a poor man's Shea Weber as well as the real Shea Weber in the same top 4.

I still think this team, if healthy, will be in the playoffs. Unless Drouin and Gally A grow into 70 point+ quality players this season, I won't hold my breath for much in the way of post-season progress.

 

[BigTed3]

4 hours ago, Walrus_26 said:

State of the Habs 2017/18?

In a bit of a state.

Swapping Radulov for Drouin isn't a bad move (although it cost us Sergachev) and Drouin still has room to grow further.  GallyA staying with the club is also a win - perhaps we can employ a personal sports psychologist to work with him though?  I still think we're light by one genuine top 6 forward.

However, if we accept the limits on our offensive prowess, we're still 2 defenders short of the sort of top 4 we'd need to genuinely contend with it.  Alzner in isolation isn't a low quality player at all, but we don't need a poor man's Shea Weber as well as the real Shea Weber in the same top 4.

I still think this team, if healthy, will be in the playoffs. Unless Drouin and Gally A grow into 70 point+ quality players this season, I won't hold my breath for much in the way of post-season progress.

 

I'll say first off that I posted last summer that I believed the 2016-17 roster was better than the one before it DESPITE the Subban for Weber trade, in large part due the to the addition of Radulov filling a hole we had. But when I look at this year's team, I find it hard to see improvement, or maybe a better way to put it is that we didn't fill any of the needs we had to address the failings of last year.

- Drouin is a better than Radulov in the long run. I think he'll put up more points than Radulov, but he also lacks a little of Radu' size, intensity, and aggression. Overall, I think this trade-off helps us quite a bit and will certainly be better for many years to come (it's kind of like a team getting Subban for Weber in a lot of ways). However, we need to factor in that we lost Sergachev (our best prospect) to have this trade-off happen, and losing Radulov and Sergachev for Drouin is probably a loss the big picture of things.

- Emelin for Alzner should theoretically be a bit of a win, but the problem is that MB has penciled Alzner onto a pairing with Weber, so essentially, this has become Markov for Alzner. No need to explain how this is a large downgrade, especially given the lack of offensive D men and puck movers on our back end.

- Schlemko probably fills in on the 2nd pairing, and to me, this represents a downgrade on Beaulieu. Maybe Schlemko will be steadier, but Beaulieu had more upside and was significantly younger (and again, with better puck-moving ability).

- Davidson or Jerabek or Morrow in for Emelin is neither here nor there. Not winning games based on any of those changes.

- Hemsky is a nice addition, but again, we're probably talking about a guy who gets 3rd line duty.

So all in all, perhaps slight upgrades with Drouin and Hemsky but offset by losses of Radulov, Markov, and Beaulieu and with big holes at center and left D that haven't been filled. So all in all, it fits with Bergevin's way of working the past 5 years, whereby he addresses small issues but has failed mightily at fixing the actual core problems with his roster.

 

[jeff33]

the hockey writers rank us 4th last in development system

https://www.hockeyfeed.com/nhl-news/report-ranking-the-nhl-s-best-farm-systems

sounds about right, we got nobody. its gonna be a long decade

[kinot-2]

3 hours ago, jeff33 said:

the hockey writers rank us 4th last in development system

https://www.hockeyfeed.com/nhl-news/report-ranking-the-nhl-s-best-farm-systems

sounds about right, we got nobody. its gonna be a long decade

I clicked on the link but it only lists the Yotes, Jets, Canes, Bolts and Flyers,, what gives?

[CaptWelly]

15 hours ago, kinot-2 said:

I clicked on the link but it only lists the Yotes, Jets, Canes, Bolts and Flyers,, what gives?

Take it for what it's worth , because it also ranks Chicago & Pittsburgh lower than us. The above ones including the Yotes were listed as the top!

[jeff33]

https://www.hockeyfeed.com/nhl-news/report-ranking-the-nhl-s-worst-farm-systems

 

haha wrong link, there ya go.

 

obviously your fault there kinot

[maas_art]

meh, they said our top prospect was Micheal McCarron

[kinot-2]

4 hours ago, jeff33 said:

https://www.hockeyfeed.com/nhl-news/report-ranking-the-nhl-s-worst-farm-systems

 

haha wrong link, there ya go.

 

obviously your fault there kinot

[Habberwacky]

Well the state of Martin Reway seems to be improving, but if you look at the way he has his head down and his hands on his knees he may be a long way off. The article has him practising  back home  https://www.habseyesontheprize.com/prospects/2017/7/21/16008658/martin-reway-skating-with-slovakian-champions-recovery-comeback-canadiens-rocket-prospects and it would nice to see him back in fomr.

[habs1952]

5 hours ago, jeff33 said:

https://www.hockeyfeed.com/nhl-news/report-ranking-the-nhl-s-worst-farm-systems

 

haha wrong link, there ya go.

 

obviously your fault there kinot

That report is a joke. How can the Pens be 30th and win the cup 2 years in a row? 

[jeff33]

14 hours ago, habs1952 said:

That report is a joke. How can the Pens be 30th and win the cup 2 years in a row? 

not going to bat for whoever did this ranking....but if you have crosby and malkin you can win a cup even if your farm team stinks

as far as OUR ranking, I have to agree......our prospects are non existent.. i liked ghetto but we traded him for frankenstein who cant play. i like hudon. after that....mcarron looks like a plug, scherbak seems like hes not the real deal, and after that we have what?

we are lacking badly in promising young players, and we have a horrible coach down there who gets extended for all his failure. big area of need imo

[habs1952]

27 minutes ago, jeff33 said:

not going to bat for whoever did this ranking....but if you have crosby and malkin you can win a cup even if your farm team stinks

as far as OUR ranking, I have to agree......our prospects are non existent.. i liked ghetto but we traded him for frankenstein who cant play. i like hudon. after that....mcarron looks like a plug, scherbak seems like hes not the real deal, and after that we have what?

we are lacking badly in promising young players, and we have a horrible coach down there who gets extended for all his failure. big area of need imo

The thing is, the Pens brought up 3 or 4 players from their farm team who had a significant impact in their success. They can now spend a few years rebuilding their farm team which, judging by their NHL roster, they don't need for a few years. Also, 2 cups in 2 years, who's gonna complain if they don't win it again in the next 5 or 6 years? 

[CaptWelly]

5 hours ago, habs1952 said:

The thing is, the Pens brought up 3 or 4 players from their farm team who had a significant impact in their success. They can now spend a few years rebuilding their farm team which, judging by their NHL roster, they don't need for a few years. Also, 2 cups in 2 years, who's gonna complain if they don't win it again in the next 5 or 6 years? 

That's actually what he was referring to. If the Penguins farm system was that bad than they wouldn't of been able to bring up guys that had impact which they did. They also list Chicago bad and the Coyotes almost the top. So I agree that even if it's a negative that so many want to jump on and say see. I question it unless you agree with the rest of the assessments. So this must mean the Coyotes are about to break out and chase for Stanley? 

[habs1952]

2 hours ago, CaptWelly said:

That's actually what he was referring to. If the Penguins farm system was that bad than they wouldn't of been able to bring up guys that had impact which they did. They also list Chicago bad and the Coyotes almost the top. So I agree that even if it's a negative that so many want to jump on and say see. I question it unless you agree with the rest of the assessments. So this must mean the Coyotes are about to break out and chase for Stanley? 

Nowhere did Jeff mention the Pens bringing up players from their farm team. He actually inferred all you need is Malkin and Crosby and you will win the cup.