State of the Habs

[eldag]

I have been a fan of this team since 1963 when I was 10 years old and my dad took me to a game while we were visiting Montreal.   This roster may be the absolute worst this team has posted to start a season that I can remember. The management group is easily the worst and there have been some beauties through the years. The current crop gets my nod though because of the dishonest approach with the fans that continues to fester with many who have long supported this once great franchise. It is great no longer and until there is a house cleaning starting at the top the carcass will continue to rot from the inside. 

I hoped that by now there would be enough knowledgable fans petitioning Molson to make changes but so far ... status quo. It will become more entertaining as the season wears on ... losses mount ... and people begin to wake  up to reality.

 

[BigTed3]

I think there's obviously some frustration here, because the roster is not as bad as that. The forward group is actually reasonably decent, especially considering a 31-team league. Teams just aren't going to have the same depth of roster nor the same odds of winning the Cup they had when there were 12 or 21 teams in the league. So in many ways, building a winning team is harder today than it was 30-40 years ago, especially with the cap and earlier free agency artificially preventing good management from building dynasties.

I'll also take exception with saying this management is the worst in years... it depends how you define that, because Houle-Tremblay was pretty darn bad and I'd vouch worse than Bergevin. I think Pierre Gauthier was a better GM than Bergevin though, and PG was run out of town for being secretive, yet MB is not only secretive, he frequently lies to fans and media and gets away with it.

What I will agree to saying is that this is the worst defensive brigade I can remember in the last 15 years, maybe longer, and what makes it even more frustrating is that we had a number of promising young D men whom MB sent to the curb. Subban being the obvious one. Sergachev. Beaulieu dealt for peanuts after being mismanaged. Tinordi and Pateryn and so on never being given a shot while we favored the likes of Murray and Bouillon. MB has made a real mess of this defence and he deserves to pay for it.

[GreekHockeyCoach]

16 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

I think there's obviously some frustration here, because the roster is not as bad as that. The forward group is actually reasonably decent, especially considering a 31-team league. Teams just aren't going to have the same depth of roster nor the same odds of winning the Cup they had when there were 12 or 21 teams in the league. So in many ways, building a winning team is harder today than it was 30-40 years ago, especially with the cap and earlier free agency artificially preventing good management from building dynasties.

I'll also take exception with saying this management is the worst in years... it depends how you define that, because Houle-Tremblay was pretty darn bad and I'd vouch worse than Bergevin. I think Pierre Gauthier was a better GM than Bergevin though, and PG was run out of town for being secretive, yet MB is not only secretive, he frequently lies to fans and media and gets away with it.

What I will agree to saying is that this is the worst defensive brigade I can remember in the last 15 years, maybe longer, and what makes it even more frustrating is that we had a number of promising young D men whom MB sent to the curb. Subban being the obvious one. Sergachev. Beaulieu dealt for peanuts after being mismanaged. Tinordi and Pateryn and so on never being given a shot while we favored the likes of Murray and Bouillon. MB has made a real mess of this defence and he deserves to pay for it.

Really Ted? Have you watched other teams play. We still can't score goals, we've gotten a lot slower, most of our forwards don't know what to do with the puck. Our captain with his size and speed lazily skates around waiting for someone to pass to him so he can shoot. We have no legitimate top 2 lines that can contend with the league's top lines. I've always been positive on this forum about our team but this is a really bad product we have out there this year. We traded or let go of our most exciting players (Subban, Radulov). You're right about our defense. It's so bad right now. As much as we complained about Yemelin, I'd welcome him back with open arms at this point. We have no physical presence on defense. Weber looks lazy and uninspired.

As for the coaching, there's no doubt that Julien is a much better coach then Therrien. However, no matter how much I hated Therrien's systems, his dumb (typo on purpose) and chase and flipping the puck out to the neutral zone without any type of breakout, at least he had the players working hard on every shift. I don't see that so far this year. Julien has to crack the whip and have them playing much hungrier than they are right now. Small sample size so far but I'm very disappointed of what I'm seeing thus far.

[BigTed3]

1 minute ago, GreekHockeyCoach said:

Really Ted? Have you watched other teams play. We still can't score goals, we've gotten a lot slower, most of our forwards don't know what to do with the puck. Our captain with his size and speed lazily skates around waiting for someone to pass to him so he can shoot. We have no legitimate top 2 lines that can contend with the league's top lines. I've always been positive on this forum about our team but this is a really bad product we have out there this year. We traded or let go of our most exciting players (Subban, Radulov). You're right about our defense. It's so bad right now. As much as we complained about Yemelin, I'd welcome him back with open arms at this point. We have no physical presence on defense. Weber looks lazy and uninspired.

As for the coaching, there's no doubt that Julien is a much better coach then Therrien. However, no matter how much I hated Therrien's systems, his dumb (typo on purpose) and chase and flipping the puck out to the neutral zone without any type of breakout, at least he had the players working hard on every shift. I don't see that so far this year. Julien has to crack the whip and have them playing much hungrier than they are right now. Small sample size so far but I'm very disappointed of what I'm seeing thus far.

The Habs played a decent game in Buffalo, albeit against a team they should have whipped.

Washington was a tire fire.

New York, they actually were the better team on the ice but fell victim to lousy officiating and some questionable goal reviews.

The offence hasn't scored much, but I see them getting chances (the Plekanec line being a prime example of getting lots of good looks but nothing to show for it) and I really like the puck movement on the first wave of the PP. I think we look a lot more dangerous in the offensive zone this year and a lot better on the forecheck. What we're lacking is a breakout. We don't have a fast-break offence because there's frankly no one on the back end to set that up. So to me, a lot of the problems with the offence stem from how weak the defence is at skating and puck movement, not because the roster of forwards is inadequate.

Agreed that we got rid of a lot of our exciting players, but Galchenyuk is an exciting player and is just not being given a chance, playing on the 4th line with Mitchell and Ott and Martinsen last year and now with Danault and Shaw. He isn't going to score like that and the team knows it and seems to be fine with it. And Drouin is exciting too. I think he'll break out. Pacioretty, love him or hate him, is an elite shooter. The numbers say Gallagher is a good 2nd line forward, and Lehkonen I believe will be too when all is said and done. Hudon has impressed me thus far as well. There is skill there. There is speed there. There is good offensive instinct. We absolutely need to upgrade our 2nd-line LW/C positions, but if we had a better defence, I think the offence would actually be fine. If we were looking at

Sergachev-Subban

Mete-Petry

Markov-Davidson

for example, I think we'd be fine. But the likes of Alzner and Streit are having negative impact on our team, being neither good at defence nor able to generate any offence. Fix those issues on the back end, go out and get a Nick Leddy or a Ryan Murray or a Shea Theodore and you can help the offence too.

[jennifer_rocket]

I'm continually just worried about our inability to score goals. We saw it in the preseason, and we're seeing it again through three games of the regular season. 3 goals in 3 games. Disappointing. I'm not sure how the analysis breaks down... I see we're getting some shots, but I'm not sure if we're getting quality chances or if most of those shots are low-opportunity. Either way, a shootout win over Buffalo and losses to Washington and New York in regulation is a pretty poor start to the year. And we have Chicago tomorrow...

[Regis22]

It only 3 games buy

http://www.hockeyinsideout.com/news/about-last-night-385

What we do know is the team that began their season 9-1 a year ago is 1-2 … and lucky to score a Shootout win over the only non-playoff team they’ve faced.

The Tomas Plekanec line has played well through three games.

Jonathan Drouin’s line has looked good on most of its shifts.

But the Phillip Danault-Andrew Shaw-Alex Galchenyuk line is a mess.

And the fourth line, shaken up with the addition of Torrey Mitchell Sunday night, is … a fourth line.

As for the D corps …

The general manager thinks it’s better than last year’s.

On the evidence of three games, Marc Bergevin is seriously delusional

[Habs_Hockey_Nutz]

3 minutes ago, jennifer_rocket said:

I'm continually just worried about our inability to score goals. We saw it in the preseason, and we're seeing it again through three games of the regular season. 3 goals in 3 games. Disappointing. I'm not sure how the analysis breaks down... I see we're getting some shots, but I'm not sure if we're getting quality chances or if most of those shots are low-opportunity. Either way, a shootout win over Buffalo and losses to Washington and New York in regulation is a pretty poor start to the year. And we have Chicago tomorrow...

At this point it would be a miracle if the Habs could beat the Hawks

I agree with what Ted said pretty much... the talent is there up front and lacking on the back end. The problem, as I see it, is the way the lines have been constructed with little that can be done in terms of the defense pairings barring changes in personnel. Julien? The biggest mistake he made was keeping the same assistant coaches and not wanting a new look management team. The second, may be listening to the wrong people assessing the players values and where they should be playing. I expected more from a man with so much experience to say the least.

Of course having Bergevin as the GM doesn't/didn't help the situation.

[Regis22]

1 hour ago, BigTed3 said:

Fix those issues on the back end, go out and get a Nick Leddy or a Ryan Murray or a Shea Theodore and you can help the offence too.

Other than MB  when teams have a top end D prospect(s) they don't get rid of them . MB has done it 2 years in a row with what appears to be no plan in place to repolace that player

 

[habs1952]

12 hours ago, PuckPundit said:

Who predicts 2-8-0 after the first 10 games?

I'd say that's overly optimistic. 

[Regis22]

FWIW , Ray Ferraro on the radio

The Habs are an average team . They aren't a team that 's going to score a lot of goals and they are not a defensive team ( look at their D )

They are  probably  the worst team, aside from Vegas,  at C

The  # 1 C is a guy who never played C ( in the NHL )

The guy who should have been # 1 C is a winger on the 3 rd line

TP is coming off his worst year since his rookie year and they are counting on him having a bounce back year playing with a rookie and a 2nd yr player

PD coming off a great year for him is ideally suited to be a 3 rd line C

 

 

 

[Habs=stanleycup]

15 minutes ago, Regis22 said:

FWIW , Ray Ferraro on the radio

The Habs are an average team . They aren't a team that 's going to score a lot of goals and they are not a defensive team ( look at their D )

They are  probably  the worst team, aside from Vegas,  at C

The  # 1 C is a guy who never played C ( in the NHL )

The guy who should have been # 1 C is a winger on the 3 rd line

TP is coming off his worst year since his rookie year and they are counting on him having a bounce back year playing with a rookie and a 2nd yr player

PD coming off a great year for him is ideally suited to be a 3 rd line C

 

 

 

Things are looking up 

[Habberwacky]

I think we will win at least 5 of the first ten providing the refs let a few goals count, My problem is with Julien  and whether this team will be ready to play every night. He has a lot of youngsters in the line-up and will need to get used to playing the players who are ready to go each night rather than stick with lines that are going cold. I would not be wasting too  much time with Streit or Hemsky and would have benched Hemsky after the first game. I would prefer Scherbak and his mistakes over what Hemsky has shown so far. Davidson was much better than Streit and Benn had a much better game with Davidson out there.

[Regis22]

The next 7 games

Chicago

Toronto

@ SJS then @ LA ( back to back )

@ Anaheim

Florida

LA

 

 

[jeff33]

https://www.hockeyfeed.com/nhl-news/vezina-trophy-winner-reveals-cup-contender-dressing-room-feud

jose theodore with some stiff commentary on the room.  ouch

[maas_art]

On 10/9/2017 at 5:41 AM, BigTed3 said:

Sergachev-Subban

Mete-Petry

Markov-Davidson

Could you imagine:

McDonaugh - Subban
Sergachev - Petry
Markov/Mete - Juulsen  

Thats maybe the best blueline in the league -  with all but one (petry) not being home-grown drafted.  Ugg. 

[maas_art]

1 hour ago, jeff33 said:

https://www.hockeyfeed.com/nhl-news/vezina-trophy-winner-reveals-cup-contender-dressing-room-feud

jose theodore with some stiff commentary on the room.  ouch

Sounds like a lot of gossip (although I certainly dont doubt they are frustrated).  

[Habs=stanleycup]

1 hour ago, jeff33 said:

https://www.hockeyfeed.com/nhl-news/vezina-trophy-winner-reveals-cup-contender-dressing-room-feud

jose theodore with some stiff commentary on the room.  ouch

The truth hurts and it's reflected in the way they play.

No leadership from our captain.

A GM lost at sea and who believes the goalie makes the team.

No offence.

[Shutoutfan]

When was the last time we started in a season where one of our rookies or new players started really great. I mean Toronto is no competition. What they have on youth is unbelievable. Edmonton has its players. But then I see the Devils and a 19y Jesper Bratt having 5 points after two games. Yes he wont play the whole season that way but what would I have given for Drouin coming here and have such a start. Just to fuel the team and the fans.  Does a guy like Bratt have better linemates? I dont think so. Even Yakupov has 3 points.

Just hoping we dont get a 10-burger by the Hawks like the Pens.

[jwlk]

3 hours ago, Habs=stanleycup said:

The truth hurts and it's reflected in the way they play.

No leadership from our captain.

A GM lost at sea and who believes the goalie makes the team.

No offence.

you cant blame the captain for the start of the season, hes looked fine, but he cant make anyone play better, or score,

[Habs=stanleycup]

14 minutes ago, jwlk said:

you cant blame the captain for the start of the season, hes looked fine, but he cant make anyone play better, or score,

I respectfully disagree. Also the team comes before the player, and Pacioretty has not been, and is not currently suitable as a captain for this team IMO.

[jwlk]

8 minutes ago, Habs=stanleycup said:

I respectfully disagree. Also the team comes before the player, and Pacioretty has not been, and is not currently suitable as a captain for this team IMO.

thats a matter of opinion, none of us know what goes on behind those doors, and this team needs different management and style, changing the C will do nothing

[maas_art]

36 minutes ago, Habs=stanleycup said:

I respectfully disagree. Also the team comes before the player, and Pacioretty has not been, and is not currently suitable as a captain for this team IMO.

Certainly we're all entitled to our opinions so no worries there but I just wonder:  What makes you think he's not a good captain?  We dont know what he says to the players and just because he's only scored 1 time in 3 games shouldnt really affect his leadership ability.  

Im genuinely curious - i know a lot of people have this concern about him so I want to know what it is that makes people think he's bad.  Is it his perceived intensity?   Not everyone is Toews or Weber. Guys like Benn or Karlsson are usually not very serious but considered to be great captains so I really am curious why people think Patches is not great.  He's certainly let his scoring do the talking with top 5 goal scoring totals in the league over the past 5 years....

[BigTed3]

Like I've always said, winning breeds happiness and losing breeds discontent in the locker room. Players don't rock the boat when the team is having success and everyone wants a bigger share of the pie if they feel they can do more to right the ship. The goaltending will be better. The forwards will score. The team's low PDO and the pure dominance in Corsi/scoring chances, particularly by the Plekanec line, tells us that goals will come. I have legitimate concerns over the poor performance of our defencemen, but two thirds of the team will almost certainly be better than the results show, and that in itself will quell any rumors of discontent.

[habs1952]

1 hour ago, maas_art said:

Certainly we're all entitled to our opinions so no worries there but I just wonder:  What makes you think he's not a good captain?  We dont know what he says to the players and just because he's only scored 1 time in 3 games shouldnt really affect his leadership ability.  

Im genuinely curious - i know a lot of people have this concern about him so I want to know what it is that makes people think he's bad.  Is it his perceived intensity?   Not everyone is Toews or Weber. Guys like Benn or Karlsson are usually not very serious but considered to be great captains so I really am curious why people think Patches is not great.  He's certainly let his scoring do the talking with top 5 goal scoring totals in the league over the past 5 years....

So, scoring goals has become the only criteria to be a Habs captain?  A good captain plays to inspire their teammates and make them better. A good captain gets involved. Patches doesn't. 

[jwlk]

1 hour ago, habs1952 said:

So, scoring goals has become the only criteria to be a Habs captain?  A good captain plays to inspire their teammates and make them better. A good captain gets involved. Patches doesn't. 

who would u give it to, that inspires there teammates and makes them better