Habs=stanleycup Posted February 8, 2018 Report Share Posted February 8, 2018 HIO Show Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_T_L Posted February 8, 2018 Report Share Posted February 8, 2018 48 minutes ago, Habs=stanleycup said: HIO Show No worries about the UFA market. Unless the guy is a 4th line grinder or dirt cheap, it's unlikely MB is targeting him. Why bother when he can just pick them up off waivers? Rangers just put 3 guys on waivers today. I'm sure MB is salivating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs=stanleycup Posted February 8, 2018 Report Share Posted February 8, 2018 25 minutes ago, H_T_L said: No worries about the UFA market. Unless the guy is a 4th line grinder or dirt cheap, it's unlikely MB is targeting him. Why bother when he can just pick them up off waivers? Rangers just put 3 guys on waivers today. I'm sure MB is salivating. Yup and unfortunately our team is going nowhere fast unless we can shed ourselves of our current Owner and GM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CANADIENS27 Posted February 8, 2018 Report Share Posted February 8, 2018 48 minutes ago, Habs=stanleycup said: Yup and unfortunately our team is going nowhere fast unless we can shed ourselves of our current Owner and GM. We'll probably need a French owner who can stand up to the media and bring in the needed personnel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTed3 Posted February 8, 2018 Report Share Posted February 8, 2018 Eric Engels did an analysis of trade value for some of our guys... most interesting was his thoughts on Plekanec. Compared him to Vermette (who garnered a 1st rounder two years ago) and a lesser version of Hanzal (who garnered a 1st and 2nd) but also went through the teams and felt the only two-way centers available right now were Plekanec and Letestu. So he suggested that while the market has a lot of scoring wingers around, there really aren't too many comparables to Plekanec out there and that that might help to push up his value. You have to wonder if MB is patient whether someone will cave and offer up a late 1st for Plekanec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maas_art Posted February 8, 2018 Report Share Posted February 8, 2018 45 minutes ago, BigTed3 said: Eric Engels did an analysis of trade value for some of our guys... most interesting was his thoughts on Plekanec. Compared him to Vermette (who garnered a 1st rounder two years ago) and a lesser version of Hanzal (who garnered a 1st and 2nd) but also went through the teams and felt the only two-way centers available right now were Plekanec and Letestu. So he suggested that while the market has a lot of scoring wingers around, there really aren't too many comparables to Plekanec out there and that that might help to push up his value. You have to wonder if MB is patient whether someone will cave and offer up a late 1st for Plekanec. Agreed. A team like Pittsburgh would probably pay quite well for him - they have a huge drop-off between Malkin-Crosby and everyone else. Sheahan is decent but much more suited to 4th line duties and Rowney should be in the pressbox / reserves. Plekanec would slot in well into that 3rd line position and give them 3 lines that can basically role against any team they face. I am not sure how likely Rutherford is to trade a 1st rounder but you never know. A three-peat is almost unheard of in this day and age so it may be worth the gamble for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noob616 Posted February 9, 2018 Report Share Posted February 9, 2018 So Brendan Smith was just put on waivers. He signed a 4Y/4.35M contract this summer. Trading Alzner looks pretty unlikely now since he's at best an equivalent player with an extra year on his contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maas_art Posted February 9, 2018 Report Share Posted February 9, 2018 25 minutes ago, Noob616 said: So Brendan Smith was just put on waivers. He signed a 4Y/4.35M contract this summer. Trading Alzner looks pretty unlikely now since he's at best an equivalent player with an extra year on his contract. Thats actually a pretty surprising move. They are similar in their quality level although I think Smith is a much better skater / more mobile than Alzner. I wonder if the rags just felt like he wasnt a good fit there. If no one claims him it seems unlikely they would send him to the minors (almost no cap relief so no real point unless you think he's actively hurting you). Wonder if they'd consider an Alzner + Pick for Smith trade? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTed3 Posted February 9, 2018 Report Share Posted February 9, 2018 40 minutes ago, Noob616 said: So Brendan Smith was just put on waivers. He signed a 4Y/4.35M contract this summer. Trading Alzner looks pretty unlikely now since he's at best an equivalent player with an extra year on his contract. Agreed. Alzner is similar in style but definitely inferior to Smith and he's on a worse contract. The only saving graces are 1. Maybe Smith will get claimed and there is a market. 2. As Jedi mentioned, maybe we can deal Alzner for another problem contract but someone else who fits a better need for us. 3. There might be more demand in the summer. He's not an expiring contract, so he doesn't fit as a typical deadline pick-up, and teams might not have the cap space to fit him in or be willing to plan out their future years at this time. But perhaps come summer, when teams have more roster and cap flexibility to make changes, someone would be willing to make a deal. Unlikely but not impossible. At the very least, Alzner has actually been better in the past month. IMO Schlemko has been way worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs=stanleycup Posted February 9, 2018 Report Share Posted February 9, 2018 Gallagher is the obvious defacto captain of this team. He leads by action and example, he gets in the dirty areas and plays with pride, totally unlike the one who wears the C now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regis22 Posted February 9, 2018 Report Share Posted February 9, 2018 Im glad they lost to Philly . With that 2 game winning streak people were starting to think that this team turned a corner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs1952 Posted February 9, 2018 Report Share Posted February 9, 2018 4 minutes ago, Regis22 said: Im glad they lost to Philly . With that 2 game winning streak people were starting to think that this team turned a corner They turned a corner a few times this year. The problem is, they've been walking around the same block. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kinot-2 Posted February 9, 2018 Report Share Posted February 9, 2018 29 minutes ago, habs1952 said: They turned a corner a few times this year. The problem is, they've been walking around the same block. You certainly are witty tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_T_L Posted February 9, 2018 Report Share Posted February 9, 2018 https://www.tsn.ca/canadiens-could-learn-from-rangers-rebuild-proclamation-1.993116 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CANADIENS27 Posted February 9, 2018 Report Share Posted February 9, 2018 Last night, the penalty kill did nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maas_art Posted February 10, 2018 Report Share Posted February 10, 2018 While not mathematically eliminated yet, I think we all agree we wont be making the post season this year so... In years four, five and six of Marc Bergevin's five-year-plan we will have played a total of ONE playoff series with a total of 2 games won. How can Molson possibly "still have full faith" in Bergevin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noob616 Posted February 10, 2018 Report Share Posted February 10, 2018 Pretty frustrating that by all accounts they want to "retool" and build the defense around Weber. It boggles my mind that 28 year old Pacioretty absolutely 100% needs to be traded but Weber who will be 33 next season is the #1D of some future cup contender. I just don't get how MB can rightly see this team isn't good enough to contend now but conclude that in a few years 33-36 year old Weber is going to be more help than 29-33 year old Pacioretty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff33 Posted February 10, 2018 Report Share Posted February 10, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs=stanleycup Posted February 10, 2018 Report Share Posted February 10, 2018 1 hour ago, maas_art said: How can Molson possibly "still have full faith" in Bergevin? Delusional and/or doesn't have a hockey mind. Habs are just a side hobby besides brewing beer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTed3 Posted February 10, 2018 Report Share Posted February 10, 2018 58 minutes ago, Noob616 said: Pretty frustrating that by all accounts they want to "retool" and build the defense around Weber. It boggles my mind that 28 year old Pacioretty absolutely 100% needs to be traded but Weber who will be 33 next season is the #1D of some future cup contender. I just don't get how MB can rightly see this team isn't good enough to contend now but conclude that in a few years 33-36 year old Weber is going to be more help than 29-33 year old Pacioretty. And yet he made that conclusion about Subban being less useful despite his being the same age as Pacioretty too. So he's obviously a bad judge of things like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noob616 Posted February 10, 2018 Report Share Posted February 10, 2018 10 minutes ago, BigTed3 said: And yet he made that conclusion about Subban being less useful despite his being the same age as Pacioretty too. So he's obviously a bad judge of things like this. Like don't get me wrong I think Pacioretty should be traded too. The Habs aren't a contender in the short to medium term and he'll have aged out of his prime by the time the Habs are on the upswing. Trading him is the prudent move and ideally they should be getting high end prospects back and hoping to build around 27/92/53/24/11/62. But if the Habs aren't planning to move Weber and want to go into next year trying to be competitive then it seems really dumb to trade Pacioretty for futures and then try to win anyway. Unless a team giftwraps us the next Boeser/Barzal who is a top line forward immediately (Tolvanen is maybe the only realistic possibility) then the team will be worse on aggregate. Even if they get back a prospect/pick who turns into a 35G scorer in 2 years you're then trying to win with a 35G scorer and 35 year old Weber, instead of a 35G Pacioretty and 33 year old Weber. It just reminds me of the 2008-09 season and 2009 offseason where they let half the team walk and replaced them with a new core that was basically the same talent level. Kovalev for Cammalleri, Koivu for Gomez, Tanguay for Gionta, Higgins for Moen, Komisarek for Gill, Dandenault for Spacek, Brisebois for Mara, etc etc. The team just tread water until Pacioretty/Subban/Price took it to the next level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTed3 Posted February 10, 2018 Report Share Posted February 10, 2018 1 minute ago, Noob616 said: Like don't get me wrong I think Pacioretty should be traded too. The Habs aren't a contender in the short to medium term and he'll have aged out of his prime by the time the Habs are on the upswing. Trading him is the prudent move and ideally they should be getting high end prospects back and hoping to build around 27/92/53/24/11/62. But if the Habs aren't planning to move Weber and want to go into next year trying to be competitive then it seems really dumb to trade Pacioretty for futures and then try to win anyway. Unless a team giftwraps us the next Boeser/Barzal who is a top line forward immediately (Tolvanen is maybe the only realistic possibility) then the team will be worse on aggregate. Even if they get back a prospect/pick who turns into a 35G scorer in 2 years you're then trying to win with a 35G scorer and 35 year old Weber, instead of a 35G Pacioretty and 33 year old Weber. It just reminds me of the 2008-09 season and 2009 offseason where they let half the team walk and replaced them with a new core that was basically the same talent level. Kovalev for Cammalleri, Koivu for Gomez, Tanguay for Gionta, Higgins for Moen, Komisarek for Gill, Dandenault for Spacek, Brisebois for Mara, etc etc. The team just tread water until Pacioretty/Subban/Price took it to the next level. Right. Bottom line is that MB and MT completely blew the window we had to win with a fantastic core of Price/Subban/Pacioretty. Look at those guys over the past 6 years since they took over: you have the most dominant goalie over that timeframe, a Norris-winning D man who is one of the top 3 D men in the league, and one of the top 5 goal scorers. And MB did nothing to build around that other than tinker with his 4th liners and depth defencemen. So yeah, realistically now, if we're looking to build around a new core of AG/BG/JD/Mete/Lehkonen/Hudon/Danault/Juulsen/Lindgren/etc. (which isn't a bad start), then you need to ask yourself when that core is going to peak. I'm going to say it'll be at its best in 2-3 years, so you want to find guys who are going to be dominant then too. You can argue Price will still be good. You can argue Pacioretty can still score 25-30 goals then. I have doubts Weber will be as good as he is today, when he's already on the decline and now dealing with more frequent/important injuries. We've seen how many D men have declined quickly in their early 30s... with Pacioretty, either you trade him in the next 6 months OR you are losing him as a UFA (or trading him at lesser value next year) OR you plan on re-signing him to a big money contract. Neither of those last two options seems feasible. So I agree, you get rid of Pacioretty and Weber and anyone else who doesn't fit into the plan to win a cup in 2-3 years or longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regis22 Posted February 10, 2018 Report Share Posted February 10, 2018 Get rid of the GM and all of his buddies in the office . The Asst GM , assistant to the assistant GM , player Development, coach of Laval etc . And let someone else make these trades Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regis22 Posted February 10, 2018 Report Share Posted February 10, 2018 http://montrealgazette.com/sports/hockey/nhl/hockey-inside-out/stu-cowan-canadiens-miss-p-k-subban-more-than-he-misses-the-team Former Canadien Georges Laraque, one of Subban’s friends, probably hit the nail on the head about Subban’s problems in the Habs locker room when he said the other players didn’t like his big personality and were jealous because of his popularity with fans and his huge contract. Laraque, who hosts a weekday radio show on 91.9 Sports, also hit the nail on the head about Subban’s problems with Canadiens management when he said Subban was becoming bigger than the team. “When a guy becomes bigger than the team, they’ve always done that,” Laraque told me about the Canadiens trading Subban and Patrick Roy. “They don’t like personalities … they take players like that as a distraction. They want a player that just plays the game and has no personality. In Montreal, you have to fit a certain profile and that’s why they like Carey Price. He doesn’t talk … he has no personality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTed3 Posted February 10, 2018 Report Share Posted February 10, 2018 29 minutes ago, Regis22 said: http://montrealgazette.com/sports/hockey/nhl/hockey-inside-out/stu-cowan-canadiens-miss-p-k-subban-more-than-he-misses-the-team Former Canadien Georges Laraque, one of Subban’s friends, probably hit the nail on the head about Subban’s problems in the Habs locker room when he said the other players didn’t like his big personality and were jealous because of his popularity with fans and his huge contract. Laraque, who hosts a weekday radio show on 91.9 Sports, also hit the nail on the head about Subban’s problems with Canadiens management when he said Subban was becoming bigger than the team. “When a guy becomes bigger than the team, they’ve always done that,” Laraque told me about the Canadiens trading Subban and Patrick Roy. “They don’t like personalities … they take players like that as a distraction. They want a player that just plays the game and has no personality. In Montreal, you have to fit a certain profile and that’s why they like Carey Price. He doesn’t talk … he has no personality. That's what I've been saying too. We're left with a bunch of guys who are decent hockey players but have no personality. They toe the party line, they don't show much emotion, and they don't really rally the troops or get the fans excited about the team. Pacioretty. Weber. Price. Petry. Plekanec. Drouin. Danault. Byron. Lehkonen. Just not a lot of personality there. Gallagher's got personality on the ice, but he's also a very by-the-book guy to the media. Shaw's got personality, but he doesn't have enough skill on the ice to get fans out of their seats. After years of guys like Koivu, Kovalev, Subban, Radulov, etc. we have zero guys who bridge the team to the fans. Zero player who make you want to go and watch a game because you know they can take it over at any moment and zero guys who act like they're passionate about trying to win for Montreal. This isn't to say that players don't want to win or that they aren't trying hard, but there just isn't anyone on the team I'd call a hero or an idol-type player right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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