State of the Habs

[Windoe]

Guys like Hall and Draisaitl cause locker room problems for the right reasons, imo, because they want to win.  PK wants to win too, but he also wants to be the star of the show.  This is a big difference in the minds of teammates. 

Montreal has gone downhill since trading PK.  But its not because they traded PK.  Its hard for fans to understand this. The problem is what came back the other way, or more specifically what did not come back the other way.  And that lies ultimately at MB's door.      

[BigTed3]

1 hour ago, Windoe said:

Guys like Hall and Draisaitl cause locker room problems for the right reasons, imo, because they want to win.  PK wants to win too, but he also wants to be the star of the show.  This is a big difference in the minds of teammates. 

Montreal has gone downhill since trading PK.  But its not because they traded PK.  Its hard for fans to understand this. The problem is what came back the other way, or more specifically what did not come back the other way.  And that lies ultimately at MB's door.      

But that's a large part of it: what we got back wasn't as good as what we gave up. MB's argument must have been that a safe and conservative attitude in the room was more important than the skill on the ice. He was wrong. So what that tells you is that despite whatever issue there was with Subban, it was more than made up for with his play on the ice.

As far as PK wanting to be the star, I'd say so what. So what if he likes the camera. We had plenty of guys, like Price and Pacioretty and Galchenyuk and Markov and Plekanec who seem to look uncomfortable in front of the camera and prefer to just be left alone. So doesn't it make sense to have guys like Subban and Radulov who are willing to speak to the media and take the pressure to do so off the others? When Subban was here, he was always publicly courteous to the media, the fans, and his teammates. He celebrated team victories and his teammates accomplishments as enthusiastically as he did his own. So who cares if he has his own website or fundraises for the Children's Hospital or does a commercial for something. I couldn't care less so long as he's bringing it on the ice. He's a better player than Weber and the team did better with him than without him (and the same can be said of Nashville), so clearly he's not hurting the team on the ice. I'm fine with guys being mad at teammates who are routinely late for practice (like Sergei Kostitsyn for example) or who are doing things outside the rink that affect their performance on the ice (like Mike Ribeiro) but for you to go out of your way to be mad at a guy for living his life a certain way. Come on, grow up.

[ramcharger440]

19 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

But that's a large part of it: what we got back wasn't as good as what we gave up. MB's argument must have been that a safe and conservative attitude in the room was more important than the skill on the ice. He was wrong. So what that tells you is that despite whatever issue there was with Subban, it was more than made up for with his play on the ice.

As far as PK wanting to be the star, I'd say so what. So what if he likes the camera. We had plenty of guys, like Price and Pacioretty and Galchenyuk and Markov and Plekanec who seem to look uncomfortable in front of the camera and prefer to just be left alone. So doesn't it make sense to have guys like Subban and Radulov who are willing to speak to the media and take the pressure to do so off the others? When Subban was here, he was always publicly courteous to the media, the fans, and his teammates. He celebrated team victories and his teammates accomplishments as enthusiastically as he did his own. So who cares if he has his own website or fundraises for the Children's Hospital or does a commercial for something. I couldn't care less so long as he's bringing it on the ice. He's a better player than Weber and the team did better with him than without him (and the same can be said of Nashville), so clearly he's not hurting the team on the ice. I'm fine with guys being mad at teammates who are routinely late for practice (like Sergei Kostitsyn for example) or who are doing things outside the rink that affect their performance on the ice (like Mike Ribeiro) but for you to go out of your way to be mad at a guy for living his life a certain way. Come on, grow up.

pretty personal comment at the end there, you have no idea what has been said or what happened in private. PK was a pretty good player thats it thats all it is not like he was a saint or anything! besides he is the past a past in which we did not win a cup or even really have a legit shot at one because we did not have what we really needed on the ice a #1 center. last season was our first without him and it looked a lot like the ones we had with him so it is not like he was the big difference maker, this year the team was gutted by the fool running it so you can't compare anything from the years before in a fair manner.

[habs1952]

55 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

But that's a large part of it: what we got back wasn't as good as what we gave up. MB's argument must have been that a safe and conservative attitude in the room was more important than the skill on the ice. He was wrong. So what that tells you is that despite whatever issue there was with Subban, it was more than made up for with his play on the ice.

As far as PK wanting to be the star, I'd say so what. So what if he likes the camera. We had plenty of guys, like Price and Pacioretty and Galchenyuk and Markov and Plekanec who seem to look uncomfortable in front of the camera and prefer to just be left alone. So doesn't it make sense to have guys like Subban and Radulov who are willing to speak to the media and take the pressure to do so off the others? When Subban was here, he was always publicly courteous to the media, the fans, and his teammates. He celebrated team victories and his teammates accomplishments as enthusiastically as he did his own. So who cares if he has his own website or fundraises for the Children's Hospital or does a commercial for something. I couldn't care less so long as he's bringing it on the ice. He's a better player than Weber and the team did better with him than without him (and the same can be said of Nashville), so clearly he's not hurting the team on the ice. I'm fine with guys being mad at teammates who are routinely late for practice (like Sergei Kostitsyn for example) or who are doing things outside the rink that affect their performance on the ice (like Mike Ribeiro) but for you to go out of your way to be mad at a guy for living his life a certain way. Come on, grow up.

Yup....Your just playing hockey with guy, not marrying him.

[Regis22]

Caps signed this 3rd line C for 5 yrs

http://scores.torontosun.com/nhl/story.asp?i=20180210112202591200308&ref=hea&tm=&src

I don't like to go back to talk about it, but it was a different situation in Montreal," Eller said

[Regis22]

I guess when your team is winning team mates aren't jealous

 " Subban was joined at the hospital Friday by Predators teammates Scott Hartnell, Roman Josi, Ryan Johansen, Anthony Bitetto and Nick Bonino "

[BigTed3]

33 minutes ago, Regis22 said:

I guess when your team is winning team mates aren't jealous

 " Subban was joined at the hospital Friday by Predators teammates Scott Hartnell, Roman Josi, Ryan Johansen, Anthony Bitetto and Nick Bonino "

That's the thing. Subban has had zero issue with his GM, coach, or teammates in Nashville. He had no issues with most of his teammates here. Price and DLR and Galchenyuk went to say hi to Subban after the game, something you don't do if you dislike an ex-teammate. Pacioretty and Markov had Subban at their weddings. Weise and Beaulieu and Gill and DSP have all spoken about how much they loved Subban. So if a few guys like Gallagher and Plekanec and Gionta have an issue with Subban, who cares. That's as much on them as it is Subban. Don't sit next to the guy at team dinners, but don't turn it into an ordeal. BG talked about how he didn't want Subban to be the focus, but he's the one who made it so.

[Regis22]

I get that with 20 + different personalities not everyone is going to like everyone else. But the guys who didn't get along with PK, he's gone now and you're an even worse hockey team than when he was here . Look in the mirror

[jwlk]

pk is gone, got that, just don't understand why gallagher has to be like that, suban will be suban, but there was no need for it

[Windoe]

Trading Subban was the right move.

Trading Subban for Weber was the wrong move.

 

[jwlk]

1 hour ago, Windoe said:

Trading Subban was the right move.

Trading Subban for Weber was the wrong move.

 

i don't agree trading pk was horrible, but its done, we should all move on

[Regis22]

All the more reason MB and his entire staff should be replaced , yea a little desparate saying EVERYONE,  but they drafted AG to be a C and they did not do a good job to develop him into a C . Then traded for JD saying he would be the C and its failed . MB and his staff don't appear to be very good at judging or developing talent

http://montrealgazette.com/sports/hockey/nhl/hockey-inside-out/hickey-on-hockey-time-for-canadiens-to-test-jonathan-drouin-on-wing

 

After 50 games with the Canadiens, it’s obvious that Drouin is not a centre. His inability to win faceoffs means that he and his linemates spend a disproportionate amount of time trying to play defence. While plus-minus ratings aren’t always a true reflection of a player’s performance, there’s a reason why Drouin is minus-26 and linemate Alex Galchenyuk is minus-27.

[CaptWelly]

On ‎2‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 3:21 AM, jwlk said:

i don't agree trading pk was horrible, but its done, we should all move on

This is the most accurate statement I've seen in a long time! Like him or not like the trade or not, he's gone lets please move on!

[maas_art]

4 hours ago, CaptWelly said:

This is the most accurate statement I've seen in a long time! Like him or not like the trade or not, he's gone lets please move on!

As long as MB remains I think people will continue to bring up the trade. its like Gomez deal.  Until Gainey was gone, people kept bringing it up - and McDonaugh didnt even have his real break-out season until after Gainey had quit.

 

[jennifer_rocket]

52 minutes ago, maas_art said:

As long as MB remains I think people will continue to bring up the trade. its like Gomez deal.  Until Gainey was gone, people kept bringing it up - and McDonaugh didnt even have his real break-out season until after Gainey had quit.

 

I have no problem with anyone bringing up the deal. It's the main thing people are going to remember about MB's time as GM of Montreal. It's also a key decision that has led the team down the path of mediocrity. MB deserves to be criticized for it. It'd be nice for everyone to "get over it," but it seems unlikely until - as you have mentioned - MB's tenure comes to an end. 

[Habs=stanleycup]

16 minutes ago, jennifer_rocket said:

I have no problem with anyone bringing up the deal. It's the main thing people are going to remember about MB's time as GM of Montreal. It's also a key decision that has led the team down the path of mediocrity. MB deserves to be criticized for it. It'd be nice for everyone to "get over it," but it seems unlikely until - as you have mentioned - MB's tenure comes to an end. 

100% Agreed. A mistake of this magnitude can and should never be forgotten. It has become MB`s legacy and he should have been let go. He is way past his best-before date. It`s like taking a gulp of sour milk `yuck`!

[ChiLla]

25+ years later, people are still talking about the Roy trade. I doubt they'll stop talking about PK anytime soon.

[habs1952]

On 2/12/2018 at 3:21 AM, jwlk said:

i don't agree trading pk was horrible, but its done, we should all move on

But....you've just brought it up again yourself.

 

 

[jwlk]

7 minutes ago, habs1952 said:

But....you've just brought it up again yourself.

 

 

Lol

[Habs=stanleycup]

1 hour ago, ChiLla said:

25+ years later, people are still talking about the Roy trade. I doubt they'll stop talking about PK anytime soon.

Correct.

[Windoe]

Yes its unfortunate the room was not harmonious and PK could have stayed and everyone would be pulling together and making the playoffs.  Of course that would be better. 

But that wasn't the reality.    

Its important that people understand why MB traded PK: The room was dysfunctional before the captaincy vote, and became even moreso afterwards, to the point where MB either had to trade PK or half of the team.

Let's look at keeping PK and trading Pacioretty, Gallagher, Plekanec, and 7-10 others (everyone who voted for Pacioretty). Firstly, you can't move that many players.  Secondly, you will lose more trades than not as other GMs know you're trying to move assets out.  You think MB is a witless tool now? You'd be lynching him if he kept PK and traded the others.

You can't move out that many players to accommodate PK.  Nor should you.  So MB didn't.  Now the other GMs know MB has one hot potato that he has to trade before July 1st.  Unfortunately we couldn't get it done at the draft.  So he took the next best offer, Weber.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[H_T_L]

3 minutes ago, Windoe said:

Yes its unfortunate the room was not harmonious and PK could have stayed and everyone would be pulling together and making the playoffs.  Of course that would be better. 

But that wasn't the reality.    

Its important that people understand why MB traded PK: The room was dysfunctional before the captaincy vote, and became even moreso afterwards, to the point where MB either had to trade PK or half of the team.

Let's look at keeping PK and trading Pacioretty, Gallagher, Plekanec, and 7-10 others (everyone who voted for Pacioretty). Firstly, you can't move that many players.  Secondly, you will lose more trades than not as other GMs know you're trying to move assets out.  You think MB is a witless tool now? You'd be lynching him if he kept PK and traded the others.

You can't move out that many players to accommodate PK.  Nor should you.  So MB didn't.  Now the other GMs know MB has one hot potato that he has to trade before July 1st.  Unfortunately we couldn't get it done at the draft.  So he took the next best offer, Weber.

 

 

 

 

 

 

A decent coach might have gone a long way to uniting the room. We were stuck with Mt who just added fuel to the situation. Had we dumped MT I feel things would have settled down. I would have gone that route before trading PK. 

[maas_art]

7 minutes ago, H_T_L said:

A decent coach might have gone a long way to uniting the room. We were stuck with Mt who just added fuel to the situation. Had we dumped MT I feel things would have settled down. I would have gone that route before trading PK. 

Agree completely.   That and, just "how bad" was bad?   sure, some of the guys that voted for patches may have really disliked PK but some may have just preferred Max as captain.   Gionta seemed annoyed with PK's antics but nothing he ever did made me think they couldnt play together.  The only guys on the team I would have considered untouchable were PK, Price and Galchenyuk and all 3 of them seem to have gotten along just fine.

As for Weber being the best offer - if you believe some rumors coming from pretty reputable sources, that is untrue.  We know Vancouver made a strong pitch and there seems to be a good indication that Edmonton did too.  MB clearly felt he needed a #1 defenseman in return so thats why we took weber back but its not like we didnt have holes elsewhere in the roster that could have been filled if we had accepted a better/different offer. 

[archey]

2 minutes ago, maas_art said:

Agree completely.   That and, just "how bad" was bad?   sure, some of the guys that voted for patches may have really disliked PK but some may have just preferred Max as captain.   Gionta seemed annoyed with PK's antics but nothing he ever did made me think they couldnt play together.  The only guys on the team I would have considered untouchable were PK, Price and Galchenyuk and all 3 of them seem to have gotten along just fine.

As for Weber being the best offer - if you believe some rumors coming from pretty reputable sources, that is untrue.  We know Vancouver made a strong pitch and there seems to be a good indication that Edmonton did too.  MB clearly felt he needed a #1 defenseman in return so thats why we took weber back but its not like we didnt have holes elsewhere in the roster that could have been filled if we had accepted a better offer. 

Bring Ryder back as a coach and the heck with it.

Then you could trade everybody......

[CANADIENS27]

2 hours ago, H_T_L said:

A decent coach might have gone a long way to uniting the room. We were stuck with Mt who just added fuel to the situation. Had we dumped MT I feel things would have settled down. I would have gone that route before trading PK. 

And MT and MB were looking for just the perfect excuse to run Subban out of town.  That turned out to be the game winning goal by Colorado.