State of the Habs

[MALMACIAN_CRUNCH]

So much doom and gloom. Almost makes me wonder if I have something wrong with my eyes, like maybe I'm just crazy, seeing things that aren't there.

But I just don't think that's the case. Like when I read things like "we're worse now than when MB took over", or that we have a "pathetic prospect pool", or that "Patches is a one dimensional player", or that "character doesn't win games/championships", or the way Webber is talked about as if he's the second coming of Hal Gill..? I just don't see any of it.

Suban is good, Webber is one of the best. Agree or disagree, that don't make him Hal Gill.

There are many, many one dimensional players in the league, Patcioretty is not one of them.

Neither character, nor skill, wins championships. It's a balance of both. Look no further than the Kings. Were they void of skill? Absolutely not. But the reason they won 2 cups in 3 years had far more to do with them relentlessly out working, forchecking, skating, etc their opponents. Can't do it without skill, but you can't do it without character either.

And now versus 5 years ago? It's not even close. We are currently better on the ice, in the books financially (although I do think we could be in some trouble thanks to Prices contract in the near future) and our prospect pool is deeper and more exciting than it has been in at least 20 years. All while remaining competitive in every singly one of those 5 years, save one (loosing our starting goalie, while not having/finding anything resembling a suitable replacement hurt). It's actually a pretty solid example of how to rebuild a franchise on the fly. I say bravo MB and crew.

I can't wait to see what we can do this year. Really, really looking forward to watching Hudon shock the hockey world! Gallagher back to his normal self, Galchenyk and Drouin reach new heights, Patches finally get his 40 goals and to see our defense to show us that it doesn't require someone to skate the puck from end to end in order to get the puck out of the zone and onto the forwards tape. I think the immobility of our defense has been madly over exaggerated. Maybe I'm wrong, who knows?  

are we a lock for the Cup? Of course not, but I don't think it's out of the question either.

Cheer up guys, it could be so much worse.

[HabsAlways]

2 hours ago, MALMACIAN_CRUNCH said:

So much doom and gloom. Almost makes me wonder if I have something wrong with my eyes, like maybe I'm just crazy, seeing things that aren't there.

But I just don't think that's the case. Like when I read things like "we're worse now than when MB took over", or that we have a "pathetic prospect pool", or that "Patches is a one dimensional player", or that "character doesn't win games/championships", or the way Webber is talked about as if he's the second coming of Hal Gill..? I just don't see any of it.

Suban is good, Webber is one of the best. Agree or disagree, that don't make him Hal Gill.

There are many, many one dimensional players in the league, Patcioretty is not one of them.

Neither character, nor skill, wins championships. It's a balance of both. Look no further than the Kings. Were they void of skill? Absolutely not. But the reason they won 2 cups in 3 years had far more to do with them relentlessly out working, forchecking, skating, etc their opponents. Can't do it without skill, but you can't do it without character either.

And now versus 5 years ago? It's not even close. We are currently better on the ice, in the books financially (although I do think we could be in some trouble thanks to Prices contract in the near future) and our prospect pool is deeper and more exciting than it has been in at least 20 years. All while remaining competitive in every singly one of those 5 years, save one (loosing our starting goalie, while not having/finding anything resembling a suitable replacement hurt). It's actually a pretty solid example of how to rebuild a franchise on the fly. I say bravo MB and crew.

I can't wait to see what we can do this year. Really, really looking forward to watching Hudon shock the hockey world! Gallagher back to his normal self, Galchenyk and Drouin reach new heights, Patches finally get his 40 goals and to see our defense to show us that it doesn't require someone to skate the puck from end to end in order to get the puck out of the zone and onto the forwards tape. I think the immobility of our defense has been madly over exaggerated. Maybe I'm wrong, who knows?  

are we a lock for the Cup? Of course not, but I don't think it's out of the question either.

Cheer up guys, it could be so much worse.

 

- Subban isn't just good, he's as good or better than Webber, is younger and still has room to grow.      Every advanced stat you can measure shows Subban is a superior player in fact and exactly what this team is missing ... a puck moving, offensively creative defenceman

- Paccioretty isn't one dimensional, he can score and he's reliable defensively.    What he lacks in my mind is character.      He disappears when you need him most and in my view the worst captain we've had in my 40 years of watching this team.

- "Neither character, nor skill, wins championships"  ... nope, it is indeed a balance ... however the argument can be made that this team lacks the overall skill to be a well balanced contender.     You point to the LA Kings ... who by all rights had no business being in the finals in the first place.    They were lucky plain and simple, that other series were decided by lower ranked teams paving the way for an easy road to the finals for the Kings.    This current roster of habs is heavy on character, low on skill ... the last team Habs team to dominate was heavy on skill and had a lot of character.      Yes you need both, but you do need a lot of skill to guarantee your road to the finals. 

- What we'll do this year is regress offensively most likely as Webber slows down and we've lost the 2 puck moving defencemen we had left (Markov, Beaulieu).    Instead of Markov being over worked we'll see Webber and Petry played till they drop.      Drouin hasn't proved anything and he is at the least a replacement for Radulov.     But you can't score if your hemmed into your own end a lot ... which is exactly what is going to happen without anyone to move the puck out of the zone beyond chipping it up the boards.

- If Price goes down, we're picking in the Top 5 again, if he doesn't we'll make it into the playoffs where a more balanced team will rip as apart.

 

[habs1952]

3 hours ago, MALMACIAN_CRUNCH said:

So much doom and gloom. Almost makes me wonder if I have something wrong with my eyes, like maybe I'm just crazy, seeing things that aren't there.

But I just don't think that's the case. Like when I read things like "we're worse now than when MB took over", or that we have a "pathetic prospect pool", or that "Patches is a one dimensional player", or that "character doesn't win games/championships", or the way Webber is talked about as if he's the second coming of Hal Gill..? I just don't see any of it.

Suban is good, Webber is one of the best. Agree or disagree, that don't make him Hal Gill.

There are many, many one dimensional players in the league, Patcioretty is not one of them.

Neither character, nor skill, wins championships. It's a balance of both. Look no further than the Kings. Were they void of skill? Absolutely not. But the reason they won 2 cups in 3 years had far more to do with them relentlessly out working, forchecking, skating, etc their opponents. Can't do it without skill, but you can't do it without character either.

And now versus 5 years ago? It's not even close. We are currently better on the ice, in the books financially (although I do think we could be in some trouble thanks to Prices contract in the near future) and our prospect pool is deeper and more exciting than it has been in at least 20 years. All while remaining competitive in every singly one of those 5 years, save one (loosing our starting goalie, while not having/finding anything resembling a suitable replacement hurt). It's actually a pretty solid example of how to rebuild a franchise on the fly. I say bravo MB and crew.

I can't wait to see what we can do this year. Really, really looking forward to watching Hudon shock the hockey world! Gallagher back to his normal self, Galchenyk and Drouin reach new heights, Patches finally get his 40 goals and to see our defense to show us that it doesn't require someone to skate the puck from end to end in order to get the puck out of the zone and onto the forwards tape. I think the immobility of our defense has been madly over exaggerated. Maybe I'm wrong, who knows?  

are we a lock for the Cup? Of course not, but I don't think it's out of the question either.

Cheer up guys, it could be so much worse.

When a 32 year old D-man beginning the downside of his career is your highest paid player you've got problems. And yes, we do have cap space, but to get a name player we would need to trade assets we can ill afford to lose. 

[Regis22]

5 hours ago, MALMACIAN_CRUNCH said:

............ and our prospect pool is deeper and more exciting than it has been in at least 20 years.

I don't see it but then I don't follow the prospects .

Not sure that this guy should be coaching the farm team ---its an old article but the story remains the same

https://www.habseyesontheprize.com/2015/5/24/8652079/canadiens-ahl-coach-marc-bergevin-sylvain-lefebvre-bulldogs-icecaps

[ChiLla]

Just saw THN's Top 50 for 2017/18 and realized that 4 players drafted by the Habs are included in the ranking, too bad that only two are still playing for us though...

5. Carey Price

29. P.K. Subban

35. Ryan McDonagh

41. Max Pacioretty

Regardless of what you may think of their list (I personally think it's mostly a joke), I'd say that's a pretty decent outcome all things considered. If your plan is to build through the draft, which it should be in the Cap era, maybe it would be wise to actually keep your players around.

[CaptWelly]

16 hours ago, MALMACIAN_CRUNCH said:

So much doom and gloom. Almost makes me wonder if I have something wrong with my eyes, like maybe I'm just crazy, seeing things that aren't there.

But I just don't think that's the case. Like when I read things like "we're worse now than when MB took over", or that we have a "pathetic prospect pool", or that "Patches is a one dimensional player", or that "character doesn't win games/championships", or the way Webber is talked about as if he's the second coming of Hal Gill..? I just don't see any of it.

Suban is good, Webber is one of the best. Agree or disagree, that don't make him Hal Gill.

There are many, many one dimensional players in the league, Patcioretty is not one of them.

Neither character, nor skill, wins championships. It's a balance of both. Look no further than the Kings. Were they void of skill? Absolutely not. But the reason they won 2 cups in 3 years had far more to do with them relentlessly out working, forchecking, skating, etc their opponents. Can't do it without skill, but you can't do it without character either.

And now versus 5 years ago? It's not even close. We are currently better on the ice, in the books financially (although I do think we could be in some trouble thanks to Prices contract in the near future) and our prospect pool is deeper and more exciting than it has been in at least 20 years. All while remaining competitive in every singly one of those 5 years, save one (loosing our starting goalie, while not having/finding anything resembling a suitable replacement hurt). It's actually a pretty solid example of how to rebuild a franchise on the fly. I say bravo MB and crew.

I can't wait to see what we can do this year. Really, really looking forward to watching Hudon shock the hockey world! Gallagher back to his normal self, Galchenyk and Drouin reach new heights, Patches finally get his 40 goals and to see our defense to show us that it doesn't require someone to skate the puck from end to end in order to get the puck out of the zone and onto the forwards tape. I think the immobility of our defense has been madly over exaggerated. Maybe I'm wrong, who knows?  

are we a lock for the Cup? Of course not, but I don't think it's out of the question either.

Cheer up guys, it could be so much worse.

I actually agree with you. I think this team can be very competitive and agree pour defense is much better than the doom and gloom. As much has been cheered about Nashville's defense they almost missed the playoffs 16th seed. I agree with above also offensively and add I think Shaw will have a better year and Lehkonen could explode also. Maybe even Mac will progress. Sometimes "big' guys take a bit longer to develop. I'm optimistic myself. 

[jeff33]

There's optimism and there's kool aid. let me give mine, and I'll start with the positives.

1. Drouin/Galchenyuk

Ill put these 2 together because I think if they can get going its a pretty nice young dynamic duo. I'd be using them together, and I hope that's the plan. I really like Drouin and I think he has the ceiling to be a true A level player.

2. Price

although I hate the idea of giving a goalie so much money and banking on him for everything, he makes us a probable playoff team even with our lousy offence.

3. Lehkonen and Hudon

I like lehkonen a lot and if he takes a step forward he is a big help internally to our forward depth. Hudon should get a legit shot this year and he could potentialy give us some decent production.

4. Ill go nuts here and take a flyer on hemsky. he might be this years fleischmann. he was a very slick good player in his good days. might give us a nice surprise in the bottom 6, especially if we use him with plek on the 3rd line which is what I would do. might help bump pleky's production too, could be a double bonus.

5. Cap Space

we have 8.5 mil. please use it. I know GM'ing is hard and all, but you are up to bat here bargainbin. time to skip the dollar store and go get something expensive.

6. A Real Coach

team looked way better under Julien....as it would under anyone competent. may it continue 

KOOL AID

1. patchy is a legit star player...no. and sorry, he IS 1 dimensional. he scores goals. he isnt good at gaining the zone, beating guys one on one, making clever passes, or anything else along those lines which you want your best player to do e.g radulov last year. his defensive game is very overrated in my opinion, although he utilizes his skill set well on the PK. I will balance that out against the possibility he ends up our 3rd best fwd, in my dream drouin/chucky scenario. thats what we need him as. of course after this year he will ask and get 8 million which is an enormous mistake in my books, but as far as next year goes thats irrelevant. the kool aid part is that as it stands, looking at this team with him as a star and thinking its a cup contender is some delicious grape drank.

2. Shaw

is not going to be any better than last year. the word was he was a bottom 6 player who wanted top 6 money and thats why chicago let him go. and thats 100% accurate. 

3. weber and the D

"subban is good, weber is one of the best"  reverse that statement and you got it right. horrible trade the day it was made, and will look worse and worse every year that goes by.  the clock does not run backwards. weber does not make us anything special, and the fact that we have a brutal left d side is very very bad. him and alzner top pair? streit? whats the plan here? there is still cap space to use for a 1 LD but knowing our GM he thinks his dollar store additions are him addressing the problem. Our D corps is not good. its slow and immobile. I think its actually a bigger problem than our popgun offence. at least we have some potential breakout forwards. 

4. Our Prospect Pool

get real please. our farm system was ranked bottom 5. we have no one significant ready to come up other than maybe Hudon. Mac is a career 4th liner. Juulsen is a long way away and I watched him at WJC...meh. and thats the top end. 

5. Cup Hopes

i can see a very real possibility of missing the playoffs completely. player for player this is a very mediocre roster. we need a lot of players to step up. thats the hard truth. thin on offence, thin on defence.  a goalie cant win a cup by himself

[Habberwacky]

20 hours ago, MALMACIAN_CRUNCH said:

So much doom and gloom. Almost makes me wonder if I have something wrong with my eyes, like maybe I'm just crazy, seeing things that aren't there.

But I just don't think that's the case. Like when I read things like "we're worse now than when MB took over", or that we have a "pathetic prospect pool", or that "Patches is a one dimensional player", or that "character doesn't win games/championships", or the way Webber is talked about as if he's the second coming of Hal Gill..? I just don't see any of it.

Suban is good, Webber is one of the best. Agree or disagree, that don't make him Hal Gill.

There are many, many one dimensional players in the league, Patcioretty is not one of them.

Neither character, nor skill, wins championships. It's a balance of both. Look no further than the Kings. Were they void of skill? Absolutely not. But the reason they won 2 cups in 3 years had far more to do with them relentlessly out working, forchecking, skating, etc their opponents. Can't do it without skill, but you can't do it without character either.

And now versus 5 years ago? It's not even close. We are currently better on the ice, in the books financially (although I do think we could be in some trouble thanks to Prices contract in the near future) and our prospect pool is deeper and more exciting than it has been in at least 20 years. All while remaining competitive in every singly one of those 5 years, save one (loosing our starting goalie, while not having/finding anything resembling a suitable replacement hurt). It's actually a pretty solid example of how to rebuild a franchise on the fly. I say bravo MB and crew.

I can't wait to see what we can do this year. Really, really looking forward to watching Hudon shock the hockey world! Gallagher back to his normal self, Galchenyk and Drouin reach new heights, Patches finally get his 40 goals and to see our defense to show us that it doesn't require someone to skate the puck from end to end in order to get the puck out of the zone and onto the forwards tape. I think the immobility of our defense has been madly over exaggerated. Maybe I'm wrong, who knows?  

are we a lock for the Cup? Of course not, but I don't think it's out of the question either.

Cheer up guys, it could be so much worse.

I tend to agree with much of what you have said here. I think Bergevin has made some significant changes and virtually rebuilt our forward positions with some very young and dynamic players. .The Danault trade has become an absolute steal. I think the Shaw trade will prove to be a steal as well. The player we are picking up for Eller (Ikonen) and a 2018 2nd rounder is also looking good as it allowed room for some younger players. With Hudon likely to make the jump and the acquisition of Drouin we have some very good young talent in the line-up. If I am a returning forward I may not be taking things for granted this year. Training camp may provide the opportunity to move a few more veterans if some of our youth can make the jump. We also have the cap room to deal with some of the contracts that will cost a few more dollars and have locked up some young talent as well. Bergy has also put alot of veteran experience on defence (I also like the Davidson for Desharnais deal as I think he will get even better).. I think Bergevin has provided some stability at defence and will likely be turning his focus here  as the next step. He has done a very good job at getting this forward group where it needs to be and within a couple of years may have some difficult choices to make about some young NHL ready goaltenders  that will either need a place on the roster or offer some great opportunities for trades.While some have talked about trading everyone and starting a rebuild I would argue the rebuild is almost complete with only a couple of moves on defence required within the next couple of years, and if Jerabek, Juulsen and Mete can develop over the next two years things will continue to get better.

[Habs=stanleycup]

2 hours ago, jeff33 said:

There's optimism and there's kool aid. let me give mine, and I'll start with the positives.

1. Drouin/Galchenyuk

Ill put these 2 together because I think if they can get going its a pretty nice young dynamic duo. I'd be using them together, and I hope that's the plan. I really like Drouin and I think he has the ceiling to be a true A level player.

2. Price

although I hate the idea of giving a goalie so much money and banking on him for everything, he makes us a probable playoff team even with our lousy offence.

3. Lehkonen and Hudon

I like lehkonen a lot and if he takes a step forward he is a big help internally to our forward depth. Hudon should get a legit shot this year and he could potentialy give us some decent production.

4. Ill go nuts here and take a flyer on hemsky. he might be this years fleischmann. he was a very slick good player in his good days. might give us a nice surprise in the bottom 6, especially if we use him with plek on the 3rd line which is what I would do. might help bump pleky's production too, could be a double bonus.

5. Cap Space

we have 8.5 mil. please use it. I know GM'ing is hard and all, but you are up to bat here bargainbin. time to skip the dollar store and go get something expensive.

6. A Real Coach

team looked way better under Julien....as it would under anyone competent. may it continue 

KOOL AID

1. patchy is a legit star player...no. and sorry, he IS 1 dimensional. he scores goals. he isnt good at gaining the zone, beating guys one on one, making clever passes, or anything else along those lines which you want your best player to do e.g radulov last year. his defensive game is very overrated in my opinion, although he utilizes his skill set well on the PK. I will balance that out against the possibility he ends up our 3rd best fwd, in my dream drouin/chucky scenario. thats what we need him as. of course after this year he will ask and get 8 million which is an enormous mistake in my books, but as far as next year goes thats irrelevant. the kool aid part is that as it stands, looking at this team with him as a star and thinking its a cup contender is some delicious grape drank.

2. Shaw

is not going to be any better than last year. the word was he was a bottom 6 player who wanted top 6 money and thats why chicago let him go. and thats 100% accurate. 

3. weber and the D

"subban is good, weber is one of the best"  reverse that statement and you got it right. horrible trade the day it was made, and will look worse and worse every year that goes by.  the clock does not run backwards. weber does not make us anything special, and the fact that we have a brutal left d side is very very bad. him and alzner top pair? streit? whats the plan here? there is still cap space to use for a 1 LD but knowing our GM he thinks his dollar store additions are him addressing the problem. Our D corps is not good. its slow and immobile. I think its actually a bigger problem than our popgun offence. at least we have some potential breakout forwards. 

4. Our Prospect Pool

get real please. our farm system was ranked bottom 5. we have no one significant ready to come up other than maybe Hudon. Mac is a career 4th liner. Juulsen is a long way away and I watched him at WJC...meh. and thats the top end. 

5. Cup Hopes

i can see a very real possibility of missing the playoffs completely. player for player this is a very mediocre roster. we need a lot of players to step up. thats the hard truth. thin on offence, thin on defence.  a goalie cant win a cup by himself

Well said jeff. I would love to be optimistic about our team myself but I prefer to be realistic, if we expect to WIN the Stanley Cup it ain`t happening with this team as is; with its anemic offence and a system built around its goalie. Not to mention its nonchalant, laconic owner and a GM who traded away Subban plus let Radulov slip away.

[MALMACIAN_CRUNCH]

20 hours ago, HabsAlways said:

- Subban isn't just good, he's as good or better than Webber, is younger and still has room to grow.      Every advanced stat you can measure shows Subban is a superior player in fact and exactly what this team is missing ... a puck moving, offensively creative defenceman

 

19 hours ago, habs1952 said:

When a 32 year old D-man beginning the downside of his career is your highest paid player you've got problems. And yes, we do have cap space, but to get a name player we would need to trade assets we can ill afford to lose.

 

3 hours ago, jeff33 said:

subban is good, weber is one of the best"  reverse that statement and you got it right. horrible trade the day it was made, and will look worse and worse every year that goes by.  the clock does not run backwards. weber does not make us anything special, and the fact that we have a brutal left d side is very very bad. him and alzner top pair? streit? whats the plan here? there is still cap space to use for a 1 LD but knowing our GM he thinks his dollar store additions are him addressing the problem. Our D corps is not good. its slow and immobile. I think its actually a bigger problem than our popgun offence. at least we have some potential breakout forwards. 

Look, I understand that we might all have different perceptions on the Suban vs Webber subject. And I honestly any amount of debate is going to change any of our minds. I may have recklessly stated my opinion, but the point I was trying to illustrate was that regardless of any of that, Webber is not Hal Gill. He can skate, move the puck, pass the puck. Maybe he's not quite as prolific in those areas as Suban is (but I don't think he's as far off as some seem to want to believe). But even though he might fall short of Suban in those specific areas, it is my opinion that he is a better defensmen overall, and has been throughout the entire body of his career to this point. The question is how much longer can Webber sustain his level of play/production (which so far has been amazingly consistent)? Personally, I see no reason why he can't keep it going well into his late 30's. I see no element to his game that I question whether or not he's going to be able to do it at 36. Lol in fact, just for fun, I'm going to make a prediction, here goes... I predict that Webber will be a more productive/valuable/relevant player at 36 than Suban is at 32. If I'm wrong, I will post a picture on here of me taking a bite out of my hat . Indeed the clock does not run backwards, but it does not run at the same speed for everyone either. Time effects everyone differently.

As for his contract, I agree that it is a doozy. To be fair, so was Suban's about to become. A little less $$, but with a no trade shackle attached to it. So basically a wash. But we didn't sign that contract. Heck, Nashville didn't either, not really. I mean yes, they technically did, but it was Philli that made the offer via RFA offer sheet. Chew on that one for a while...

I agree that we seem to be short a top pair, left shooting defensmen. I just don't think loosing Markov will prove to be as big of a setback as it seems. And everyone slated into our top 6 thus far is better than both Emilin and Beaulieu. So, an argument could be made that we do have an obvious hole to fill, but we definitely are not worse off. The little bit we got to see out of Davidson last year was enough to see that he was better than Beaulieu, and we've yet to really see what this Jerbek is all about. I know I have no idea what to expect, but our apparent lack of interest in that Will Butcher kid at least has me thinking that maybe they know something that I don't. As of right now, I see nothing of worth to spend the money on. But who knows what will happen once the season gets going.

 

[MALMACIAN_CRUNCH]

4 hours ago, jeff33 said:

get real please. our farm system was ranked bottom 5. we have no one significant ready to come up other than maybe Hudon. Mac is a career 4th liner. Juulsen is a long way away and I watched him at WJC...meh. and thats the top end.

 

19 hours ago, Regis22 said:

I don't see it but then I don't follow the prospects .

Not sure that this guy should be coaching the farm team ---its an old article but the story remains the same

I'm inclined to agree with you there, something has been a miss when it comes to our players development along the way. I'm all for replacing Lefebvre, and I wouldn't be surprised if it happens before christmas. Probably depends on what kind of start the team gets off to.

As for being ranked in the bottom 5, I'm not familiar with that article. But I would imagine the fact that a lot of perennially bad teams having multiple top 5/top 10 selections in their systems has something to do with it. If there is one area we are lacking, it's top 10 picks. We've had one over the last 5 drafts (9th, i believe), and we traded him for a player picked at 3rd. But my words were "deeper and more exciting than we have had in the last 20 years". Just because they're not all ready to make the jump this season, doesn't negate the statement.

But with forwards like Hudon, McCarron, Scherbak, Carr, De La Rose, Audette, Reway, Bitten, Ikonen and Poehling.

Defensmen like Mete, Juulsen, Bourque, Lernout and Fleury.

Goaltenders like Lindgren, McNiven, Fucale, Hawkey and Primeau

There's a lot to look forward to. Obviously some will bust, some will plateau early and some will be traded. but if even a third of these guys can reach their potential, we are in pretty good shape. And some of these guys look like they could be the real deal. As I stated earlier, I'm really excited for Hudon. Would like to see what Scherbak can do on our right side, but that will more than likely happen next year. And Ikonen and Poehling, the sky looks like the limit for these two. On Defense Juulsen might not be the most exciting, but Mete, Bourque and Fleury look to be. And all of them are very mobile. And the depth in net is so good, it really begs to question how we handled the Price contract.

The cupboards are stocked, and it will only get better from here on.

[MALMACIAN_CRUNCH]

5 hours ago, jeff33 said:

i can see a very real possibility of missing the playoffs completely. player for player this is a very mediocre roster. we need a lot of players to step up. thats the hard truth. thin on offence, thin on defence.  a goalie cant win a cup by himself

 

3 hours ago, Habs=stanleycup said:

I would love to be optimistic about our team myself but I prefer to be realistic, if we expect to WIN the Stanley Cup it ain`t happening with this team as is

 

22 hours ago, HabsAlways said:

You point to the LA Kings ... who by all rights had no business being in the finals in the first place.    They were lucky plain and simple, that other series were decided by lower ranked teams paving the way for an easy road to the finals for the Kings.  

Any team that makes the playoffs has a shot at winning the Cup. I in no way am saying were a lock, but we have a world class goalie, a descent defense and should have enough scoring depth to run 4 lines against anybody. Mix that with a well timed hot streak and a dash of good fortune

As for this nonsense about the kings... I watched every single game, for both of their cups, and I say how dare you sir? No business? Lucky plain and simple? Of couse luck played a part, it always must, but come'on... Maybe you could make a case for 2012 with them going through the Canucks, Blues, Coyotes and the Devils (i don't think so, but maybe), But the second they ran the gauntlet against the Sharks, Ducks, Hawks and the Rangers. Twice in 3 years man, both times done the way it was meant to be done. It was down right magical. Shameful.

 

 

[MALMACIAN_CRUNCH]

4 hours ago, Habberwacky said:

I tend to agree with much of what you have said here. I think Bergevin has made some significant changes and virtually rebuilt our forward positions with some very young and dynamic players. .The Danault trade has become an absolute steal. I think the Shaw trade will prove to be a steal as well. The player we are picking up for Eller (Ikonen) and a 2018 2nd rounder is also looking good as it allowed room for some younger players. With Hudon likely to make the jump and the acquisition of Drouin we have some very good young talent in the line-up. If I am a returning forward I may not be taking things for granted this year. Training camp may provide the opportunity to move a few more veterans if some of our youth can make the jump. We also have the cap room to deal with some of the contracts that will cost a few more dollars and have locked up some young talent as well. Bergy has also put alot of veteran experience on defence (I also like the Davidson for Desharnais deal as I think he will get even better).. I think Bergevin has provided some stability at defence and will likely be turning his focus here  as the next step. He has done a very good job at getting this forward group where it needs to be and within a couple of years may have some difficult choices to make about some young NHL ready goaltenders  that will either need a place on the roster or offer some great opportunities for trades.While some have talked about trading everyone and starting a rebuild I would argue the rebuild is almost complete with only a couple of moves on defence required within the next couple of years, and if Jerabek, Juulsen and Mete can develop over the next two years things will continue to get better.

 

8 hours ago, CaptWelly said:

I actually agree with you. I think this team can be very competitive and agree pour defense is much better than the doom and gloom. As much has been cheered about Nashville's defense they almost missed the playoffs 16th seed. I agree with above also offensively and add I think Shaw will have a better year and Lehkonen could explode also. Maybe even Mac will progress. Sometimes "big' guys take a bit longer to develop. I'm optimistic myself. 

Right on fella's! Glad to hear we are on the same page!

[Regis22]

On ‎23‎/‎08‎/‎2017 at 7:00 PM, MALMACIAN_CRUNCH said:

Goaltenders like Lindgren, McNiven, Fucale, Hawkey and Primeau

CP is signed for 10 years

Unless he is injured for an extended period of time

None of these will see ice time in Montreal

[Regis22]

On ‎23‎/‎08‎/‎2017 at 7:00 PM, MALMACIAN_CRUNCH said:

But with forwards like Hudon, McCarron, Scherbak, Carr, De La Rose, Audette, Reway, Bitten, Ikonen and Poehling.

Defensmen like Mete, Juulsen, Bourque, Lernout and Fleury.

I wouldn't get too exicted with any of those prospects

Nothing personal but every year we say we got all these great prospects to look forward to  and we list them and then 2 , 3 ,4 years down the line we're lucky if one or two has made

D Men we all had high hopes for :Subban , Tinordi, Pateryn , Beaulieu , Sergachev , Nygren , McDonough , Fisher etc all gone

Forwards L Leblanc,Alexander Avtsin, C Crisp, Joonas Nattinen, Sven Andrighetto,  etc .nothing

 

 

[jeff33]

11 hours ago, Regis22 said:

I wouldn't get too exicted with any of those prospects

Nothing personal but every year we say we got all these great prospects to look forward to  and we list them and then 2 , 3 ,4 years down the line we're lucky if one or two has made

D Men we all had high hopes for :Subban , Tinordi, Pateryn , Beaulieu , Sergachev , Nygren , McDonough , Fisher etc all gone

Forwards L Leblanc,Alexander Avtsin, C Crisp, Joonas Nattinen, Sven Andrighetto,  etc .nothing

 

 

fans of every team will do this with their good players as well as their prospects.

 one gets excited because we are in the bubble of our own team, but essentially its just making a list of our prospects/better players on paper and saying look at all these guys we got! 

hudon and maybe reway are the only potential significant pieces we have and neither of them are breaking down the door. the rest are plugs. every team has prospects, i can make you a list like that of colombus (or whoever) and say oh my god look at their future. every team has their depth chart. until someone pops its honestly nothing to get excited about

[Gray26_Kid]

at least the Habs won the subban trade! https://www.geargeek.com/team/montreal-canadiens/shea-weber

[habs1952]

20 minutes ago, Gray26_Kid said:

at least the Habs won the subban trade! https://www.geargeek.com/team/montreal-canadiens/shea-weber

Hogwash!!!

[Noob616]

I'm still curious what's going to happen with $9M in cap space but I can't really come up with a reasonable way to use it. The only real UFA left is Jagr, I'd be fine with that but it doesn't seem like the Habs want him. Tavares, Duchene, and RNH are the centers reasonably available, and I don't see how you get them without moving significant roster players back which means you're still left with tons of dead space that other teams spent on Marleau, Radulov, Thornton, etc. Only thing I can think of is something built around RNH and Sekera for Gallagher+ but I'm still skeptical of the Oilers shipping out RNH since they don't need the cap space this year and you'd think they'd want to keep him for a deep playoff run before McDavid and Draisaitl cost 30% of their cap.

I dunno, I just don`t see much trade value in the Habs organzation that's actually expendable. Sergachev was very valuable and somewhat expendable because he's still likely a year or two away and the team needs to win now. Plekanec and Shaw are expendable but have little trade value. Gallagher, Pacioretty, Galchenyuk, and Lehkonen are likely extremely valuable in a trade but they're all on bargain contracts so it's doubtful you come out ahead moving them. Weber, Price, and Drouin aren't going anywhere, and Petry should be nearly untouchable given the team's defense situation. That leaves you with mid-late 1st round picks, 3rd pair D or 4th liners with no value, and mediocre B prospects. Nobody is lining up to trade stars for Poehling, Hudon, Scherbak, and Juulsen. They're fine prospects but other teams have far more interesting prospects to trade for guys like Tavares or Duchene.

The problem is in this league it's impossible to overpay stars so teams don't trade them in cap dumps, you might get them for 75 cents on the dollar but you still have to give actual value back. Cap hits max out at 12.5 for McDavid, and McDavid's true value is way more than three times the value of Shaw or Alzner for example. Getzlaf is expensive at 9M but he's worth way more than two Alzners. Subban's expensive at $9M but he's worth way more than 2.3 Shaws. The Habs having 9M in space is an advantage in trades, but probably only leads to trading for more Shaws, Alzners, and Bozaks; middling top9 forwards or fringe #4 defensemen paid two or three times their real value. There just aren't many star players on bad contracts that teams are anxiously trying to get rid of, especially with Vegas already taking Neal, Perron, Grabovski, Smith, etc. Giroux is maybe the only option I can think of, it's a truly horrendous "Gomez 2.0" contract and situation but it might be the only way the Habs get anything resembling a top 6 center without giving up too much in roster players.

I guess we'll have to wait and see. If we can say anything about Bergevin it's that he rarely does what you expect and he's made three completely unexpected and bold moves (Weber-Subban, Therrien-Julien, Sergachev-Drouin) in the past 18 months. Maybe there's one more trick up his sleeve, I'm not exactly confident in his player evaluation but I can't imagine Bergevin looks at Danault as the 1C and Alzner as the 1LD and is content to leave it at that. My pipe dream out of left field idea is somehow landing one or both Sedins, they cost a combined 14M today but at the deadline they'd only have something like 4.5M left as pro-rated cap hit. They're expiring UFAs and the Habs have the space to make an in-season trade for them.

[jeff33]

5 hours ago, Gray26_Kid said:

at least the Habs won the subban trade! https://www.geargeek.com/team/montreal-canadiens/shea-weber

as evidenced by this page of his stats? 

[MALMACIAN_CRUNCH]

22 hours ago, Regis22 said:

CP is signed for 10 years

Unless he is injured for an extended period of time

None of these will see ice time in Montreal

Very true. I'm sure that one of them will filling the hole left behind when Montoya's contract is up, but other than that, you are correct. However they end up being used, be it Price's backup, in the Ahl, Echl, as trade fodder or whatever, it's all gravy. Better to have it and not need it... no?

22 hours ago, Regis22 said:

I wouldn't get too exicted with any of those prospects

Nothing personal but every year we say we got all these great prospects to look forward to  and we list them and then 2 , 3 ,4 years down the line we're lucky if one or two has made

D Men we all had high hopes for :Subban , Tinordi, Pateryn , Beaulieu , Sergachev , Nygren , McDonough , Fisher etc all gone

Forwards L Leblanc,Alexander Avtsin, C Crisp, Joonas Nattinen, Sven Andrighetto,  etc .nothing

 

10 hours ago, jeff33 said:

fans of every team will do this with their good players as well as their prospects.

 one gets excited because we are in the bubble of our own team, but essentially its just making a list of our prospects/better players on paper and saying look at all these guys we got! 

hudon and maybe reway are the only potential significant pieces we have and neither of them are breaking down the door. the rest are plugs. every team has prospects, i can make you a list like that of colombus (or whoever) and say oh my god look at their future. every team has their depth chart. until someone pops its honestly nothing to get excited about

I mean, you are right fellas, they are prospects after all. My point was just that right now, at this moment, we have a very full cupboard. Of course very few, if any will actually make our dreams come true. A third of them might never really make it out of the AHL. Another third or so probably will, but likely no further than in a bottom 6 fashion. The remaining third, maybe some middle 6 action, with a few hopefully surprising and cracking top line minutes. And even still, after all of that, regardless of which third they fall into, there's a good chance that only a few of them will manage to stick with team in any sort of long term. There are no guarantees. But like any lottery, the more tickets you have for the draw, the better your odds.

As far as the quality of the prospects, we'll just have to agree to disagree. It's really just opinions vs opinions. Personally, I think we have a little more to be excited about than just Hudon and Reway. But to each their own. I hope we can at least agree that training camp should be an interesting one this year! 

[Habs=stanleycup]

What counts for the Habs is the Stanley Cup! Nothing less is acceptable!!! Our standards and expectations cannot be any lower than the Cup itself. Let`s see if we can make it this year, but I rather doubt it, let alone if we make it to the playoffs with our current lineup, our management & our nonchalant owner. The only exception IMO is our coach CJ.

[kinot-2]

6 hours ago, Habs=stanleycup said:

What counts for the Habs is the Stanley Cup! Nothing less is acceptable!!! Our standards and expectations cannot be any lower than the Cup itself. Let`s see if we can make it this year, but I rather doubt it, let alone if we make it to the playoffs with our current lineup, our management & our nonchalant owner. The only exception IMO is our coach CJ.

I have a wait and see attitude when it comes to CJ... This year he will have a full year to mold this team into a winning one. Let's see how he does it. 

[southernhabfan]

29 minutes ago, kinot-2 said:

I have a wait and see attitude when it comes to CJ... This year he will have a full year to mold this team into a winning one. Let's see how he does it. 

Agreed. The Haps always seem to start well.....it is continuing in that mode that will be the proof in the pudding, so to speak. Go boys!

[jeff33]

17 hours ago, MALMACIAN_CRUNCH said:

Very true. I'm sure that one of them will filling the hole left behind when Montoya's contract is up, but other than that, you are correct. However they end up being used, be it Price's backup, in the Ahl, Echl, as trade fodder or whatever, it's all gravy. Better to have it and not need it... no?

 

I mean, you are right fellas, they are prospects after all. My point was just that right now, at this moment, we have a very full cupboard. Of course very few, if any will actually make our dreams come true. A third of them might never really make it out of the AHL. Another third or so probably will, but likely no further than in a bottom 6 fashion. The remaining third, maybe some middle 6 action, with a few hopefully surprising and cracking top line minutes. And even still, after all of that, regardless of which third they fall into, there's a good chance that only a few of them will manage to stick with team in any sort of long term. There are no guarantees. But like any lottery, the more tickets you have for the draw, the better your odds.

As far as the quality of the prospects, we'll just have to agree to disagree. It's really just opinions vs opinions. Personally, I think we have a little more to be excited about than just Hudon and Reway. But to each their own. I hope we can at least agree that training camp should be an interesting one this year! 

welcome to the forum by the way friend

all friendly debate. Im actually having fun talking with you , since as you can see all our regulars are fed up to the gills at the moment so its a bit of an echo chamber.

so let me press you a bit here on the prospects.

1. every teams cupboard is full, in that every team has a farm team, and the farm team will have its top 10 guys. even if they all stink, you can rank them from best to worst of the bunch. so again, to my original point up there, yes we have players who's names can be listed. now to move on

2. I would actually propose that its a little more quantifiable than opinion. Hudon has been putting up pretty high point totals in I think now 3 years in the AHL. Reway has had health problems, but has absolutely lit it up on the international stage at the highest level in which that goes. Thats why I named those 2....they have something to show.

as far as I have observed, big Mac eventually turned into one of the top players in Hamilton, and has been so far completely underwhelming in his time in the NHL. the stats back that up as he has barely any points in the show. Scherbak is a similar story, although he hasnt had a chance at all to play on the big team. Juulsen is an all star in junior, made the WJC team which is nice, but was the number 4 Dman. to be fair he played well, but he also didn't do anything to make me say , oh wait until we get that guy!!!  to contrast, I saw subban at the WJC, he was clearly the best dman, and I said that guys a stud, WOW. 

soooo....I dont know who else you are excited for, those are our highest profile prospects. or specifically which of those guys you think is going to breakout, and why?