State of the Habs

[H_T_L]

9 hours ago, habs1952 said:

They sucked for half a century!!!

Yup. If he's now using Toronto as his model franchise, we only have 43 more years to go in his 50 year plan and they still haven't won a thing.

[jennifer_rocket]

14 hours ago, HabsRuleForever said:

Weber, Price, Niemi, Alzner, Schlemko, Shaw....Julien, Bergevin.....Youppi......The room the answers are in......

I'm doubtful about ever moving Price. He clearly likes it in Montreal and is probably quite content to have stability for his family.

Alzner? I don't know how we can move Alzner. 

Schlemko might be movable with two years remaining on his contract. Shaw has been injured frequently... and that deal doesn't look term friendly. Maybe we can move him if he has a good 2018-2019 campaign. Niemi probably doesn't have much value, but if he shows that last season was no fluke, maybe...

[jennifer_rocket]

53 minutes ago, H_T_L said:

Yup. If he's now using Toronto as his model franchise, we only have 43 more years to go in his 50 year plan and they still haven't won a thing.

Well, when we reach year 10 of MB's 5-year plan I would assume he'll point to a different team and try to mimic someone else based on their recent success. Then we'll have another different model to follow for years 11-15.

[jennifer_rocket]

Our depth on LD is as follows:

• Karl Alzner
• David Schlemko
• Jordie Benn
• Victor Mete
• Mike Reilly
• Xavier Ouellet

Oi.

[Regis22]

58 minutes ago, jennifer_rocket said:

Our depth on LD is as follows:

• Karl Alzner
• David Schlemko
• Jordie Benn
• Victor Mete
• Mike Reilly
• Xavier Ouellet

Oi.

On any other team , aside from Mete who I will say is " to be determined " everyone else is a # 5 , 6 , or 7 guy

 

[CANADIENS27]

Why are we not surprised Plekanec has been re-signed?  Bergevin must be crowing over this signing.  

 

 

[maas_art]

7 hours ago, H_T_L said:

Yup. If he's now using Toronto as his model franchise, we only have 43 more years to go in his 50 year plan and they still haven't won a thing.

So far we've had:

- No Excuses!
- Size is most important
- Grit is most important
- Speed is most important
- Character is most important
- Attitude is most important

So in the coming years we will have..

- Intangibles are most important
- Smell is most important
- Ability to play Quidditch is most important
- Saving Marc's job is most important

5 hours ago, Regis22 said:

On any other team , aside from Mete who I will say is " to be determined " everyone else is a # 5 , 6 , or 7 guy

Totally.  I think a guy like Reilly could *maybe* be your #4 if you had 3 really strong 1-3, but mete should be that guy so no matter how you slice it, we are missing 1 top 4 guy (at least) and have like a dozen bottom pairing guys.

[Habs=stanleycup]

54 minutes ago, maas_art said:

So far we've had:

- No Excuses!
- Size is most important
- Grit is most important
- Speed is most important
- Character is most important
- Attitude is most important

So in the coming years we will have..

- Intangibles are most important
- Smell is most important
- Ability to play Quidditch is most important
- Saving Marc's job is most important

[ramcharger440]

The team played as if it was lost last season. sure we were in bad shape on the left side of our D but other than losing that whole side and Rads it is hard to understand how the rest of the team fell off of a cliff! Webber getting hurt in the first game and Price pretty much not showing up hurt us bad. the things that i found odd were guy's like Alzner, i did not expect much when we signed him but he was so bad it was painful to watch! what happened to him? has he always been that lost? several of our forwards were floating around lost as well is CJ's system so arcane they just can't play with it? sure we were short on talent but the bumbling i saw was not a question of talent it was a lot of missed coverage and sloppy play and that is on the coach. the only player who gave it 100% night in and night out was Gallagher and he is not going to be enough. i don't think we are as bad as some are saying but we are certainly not good! i noticed that as soon as CJ got here our power play fell apart and quite frankly the results have just not been there with him at the helm not that things were a whole lot better before! but it feels like we chose the wrong coach yet again for the team we had on the ice. there is still some talent on this team and i think we are in better shape than the laughs were when they started the rebuild that got them to here, i just don't think we have the right guy leading this rebuild that he won't even admit to us being on!

[Regis22]

For a team with no real  # 1 or # 2 C the signing of the over the hill TP  has created a log jam

https://www.habseyesontheprize.com/2018/7/3/17530940/tomas-plekanec-return-montreal-canadiens-free-agency-laval-rocket-roster

As we stand right now, the four centres on opening night seem to be Phillip Danault, Jonathan Drouin, Plekanec, and Matthew Peca. Peca was signed to a one-way contract and Marc Bergevin has said he expects him to be an NHL player next year. That means that Byron Froese, Michael McCarron, and Jacob de la Rose are out of a spot down the middle. To make matters even more complicated, all of them will require waivers if they should go to the American Hockey League.

That doesn’t even factor in other forwards who will require waivers like Nikita Scherbak, Rychel, and Nicolas Deslauriers

.....................

It could end up being a game of musical chairs, but there are still several months before the music will stop

 

This is why I was against the resigning of TP  .

[Graeme-1]

4 hours ago, Regis22 said:

For a team with no real  # 1 or # 2 C the signing of the over the hill TP  has created a log jam

https://www.habseyesontheprize.com/2018/7/3/17530940/tomas-plekanec-return-montreal-canadiens-free-agency-laval-rocket-roster

As we stand right now, the four centres on opening night seem to be Phillip Danault, Jonathan Drouin, Plekanec, and Matthew Peca. Peca was signed to a one-way contract and Marc Bergevin has said he expects him to be an NHL player next year. That means that Byron Froese, Michael McCarron, and Jacob de la Rose are out of a spot down the middle. To make matters even more complicated, all of them will require waivers if they should go to the American Hockey League.

That doesn’t even factor in other forwards who will require waivers like Nikita Scherbak, Rychel, and Nicolas Deslauriers

.....................

It could end up being a game of musical chairs, but there are still several months before the music will stop

 

This is why I was against the resigning of TP  .

I'm actually totally fine with this: let them complete in training camp and send down whoever doesn't win. If we lose someone like McCarron (who was questionable to even get a qualifying offer) on waivers after losing a training camp battle, is that really a problem? And one-way deal just means you have a slightly expensive player in the minors, not a huge deal for a big market team.

I was pretty neutral on Plekanec - the argument to give the spot to a younger player is fine, but I don't see any of our young centers having a ton of potential, so I'm having trouble really seeing the Plekanec signing as anything other than "it's fine".  He should be a good locker room influence and mentor if nothing else. 

[Habs=stanleycup]

https://thehockeywriters.com/canadiens-bergevin-plan-rebuild/

Bergevin Dreams in Technicolor

In other words, the Habs need to suck for a while in order to get good again. And, as fate would have it, Bergevin has assembled the perfect team for such a mission impossible, even if it’s been in spite of himself. Look at it this way: If you want someone at the helm of the team, responsible for making the Habs as bad as imaginable, wouldn’t Bergevin be the right man for the job? His qualifications are astounding (in that one respect).

Of course, for it to be a true rebuild, the Habs would have to trade Carey Price and Shea Weber, assuming there are takers for either of them. At the very least, because Price has a no-movement clause, Weber must go, but Bergevin can’t realistically be expected to trade the guy he got back for P.K. Subban.

Doing so would be an admission of wrongdoing and incompetence, and, seeing as Bergevin can’t so much as utter the word “rebuild” in the affirmative, it’s time for him to go.

Even if you want to give him every benefit of the doubt and argue he’s finally on track with a legitimate five-year plan, he’s not special. Even if you believe he has to deny the Habs are tanking from here on out for the financial well-being of the team, he’s still become the face of the organization… and therein lies part of the problem. He shouldn’t be, in more ways than one. He’s become a caricature of contradiction, to the point that one can’t be sure if he’s even believing most of what he says. Again, he shouldn’t be.

As decent of a job as he’s admittedly done this offseason, most every NHL executive can set their sights on a non-playoff finish next season and deliver. Bergevin’s taken this team as far as he can, into the ground. You don’t need to be a general manager to know being on the verge of losing three out of the last four seasons? People lose their jobs as a result. It should be someone else’s turn, now.

[jennifer_rocket]

12 hours ago, Regis22 said:

For a team with no real  # 1 or # 2 C the signing of the over the hill TP  has created a log jam

https://www.habseyesontheprize.com/2018/7/3/17530940/tomas-plekanec-return-montreal-canadiens-free-agency-laval-rocket-roster

As we stand right now, the four centres on opening night seem to be Phillip Danault, Jonathan Drouin, Plekanec, and Matthew Peca. Peca was signed to a one-way contract and Marc Bergevin has said he expects him to be an NHL player next year. That means that Byron Froese, Michael McCarron, and Jacob de la Rose are out of a spot down the middle. To make matters even more complicated, all of them will require waivers if they should go to the American Hockey League.

That doesn’t even factor in other forwards who will require waivers like Nikita Scherbak, Rychel, and Nicolas Deslauriers

.....................

It could end up being a game of musical chairs, but there are still several months before the music will stop

 

This is why I was against the resigning of TP  .

I would hardly consider that a logjam of centers. Danault will be one of our top six centers. Drouin will as well. Tomas is in the mix for a bottom six role. Allowing Peca, McCarron, De La Rose, and Froese to compete for the 4th line role is pretty benign to me. Peca is new a shiny, but there's no guarantee he earns a spot with Montreal. I would think De La Rose might have the inside track on that role. McCarron and Froese can play in Laval or wherever. Having them in the organization or losing them on waivers is of no concern to me.

[Regis22]

2 minutes ago, jennifer_rocket said:

I would hardly consider that a logjam of centers. Danault will be one of our top six centers. Drouin will as well. Tomas is in the mix for a bottom six role.

Drouin 's not a C that was proven last year . MB even said it didn't work .

and TP is at  best a # 4 C .

It's time to start developing the C 's you have instead ov f brining back over the hill guys or trying to convert winger into C's

[maas_art]

7 hours ago, Graeme-1 said:

I'm actually totally fine with this: let them complete in training camp and send down whoever doesn't win. If we lose someone like McCarron (who was questionable to even get a qualifying offer) on waivers after losing a training camp battle, is that really a problem? And one-way deal just means you have a slightly expensive player in the minors, not a huge deal for a big market team.

I was pretty neutral on Plekanec - the argument to give the spot to a younger player is fine, but I don't see any of our young centers having a ton of potential, so I'm having trouble really seeing the Plekanec signing as anything other than "it's fine".  He should be a good locker room influence and mentor if nothing else. 

Agreed.  Fans want to "hold on" to players like Mccarron because he's been on our "top prospect" watch for years but if he cant make it onto this roster at age 23, then i think we can safely say he probably never will. 

 

 

15 minutes ago, Habs=stanleycup said:

Even if you want to give him every benefit of the doubt and argue he’s finally on track with a legitimate five-year plan, he’s not special. Even if you believe he has to deny the Habs are tanking from here on out for the financial well-being of the team, he’s still become the face of the organization… and therein lies part of the problem. He shouldn’t be, in more ways than one. He’s become a caricature of contradiction, to the point that one can’t be sure if he’s even believing most of what he says. 

The problem is guys like David Poile imho.   Poile toiled in Nashville for many years making some blunders (although I cant think of many as bad as some of MB's) but they stuck with him for over 2 decades and are now reaping the rewards. I would not be surprised at all if MB said to Molson "look what David has done in Nashville.  You cant rush these things."    
Of course the huge difference is the two teams they inherited.  Poile was the inaugural GM of a bottom feeder expansion team and MB inherited the best goalie in the world, one of the top 5 defensmen, a top 5 goal scorer, the 3rd overall pick and a whole lot of nice complimentary players.  But i have no doubt that Geoff Molson bought that story, hook, line and sinker. 

[jennifer_rocket]

19 minutes ago, Regis22 said:

Drouin 's not a C that was proven last year . MB even said it didn't work .

and TP is at  best a # 4 C .

It's time to start developing the C 's you have instead ov f brining back over the hill guys or trying to convert winger into C's

True true. I just imagine Drouin will be given another chance there. I would agree, he should be moved to the wing. Maybe Tomas plays center on the second line and Drouin moves to Danault's wing? 

[Habs=stanleycup]

57 minutes ago, maas_art said:

Agreed.  Fans want to "hold on" to players like Mccarron because he's been on our "top prospect" watch for years but if he cant make it onto this roster at age 23, then i think we can safely say he probably never will. 

 

 

The problem is guys like David Poile imho.   Poile toiled in Nashville for many years making some blunders (although I cant think of many as bad as some of MB's) but they stuck with him for over 2 decades and are now reaping the rewards. I would not be surprised at all if MB said to Molson "look what David has done in Nashville.  You cant rush these things."    
Of course the huge difference is the two teams they inherited.  Poile was the inaugural GM of a bottom feeder expansion team and MB inherited the best goalie in the world, one of the top 5 defensmen, a top 5 goal scorer, the 3rd overall pick and a whole lot of nice complimentary players.  But i have no doubt that Geoff Molson bought that story, hook, line and sinker. 

Unfortunate for us, but so true.

[Kadoch]

As long as Molson keeps buying the BS Bergevin is feeding him, there is no hope. The time has come to stop going to the games (we have done it in the past). You will see how fast changes will be made. In my opinion and most Habs fans, Bergevin is the worst GM in the history of the Canadians. I personally think he surpassed Rejean Houle in that category. take a look at his draft selections in the last 5 years. and then look at his trades. you will understand why we are in this position.   

[maas_art]

57 minutes ago, jennifer_rocket said:

True true. I just imagine Drouin will be given another chance there. I would agree, he should be moved to the wing. Maybe Tomas plays center on the second line and Drouin moves to Danault's wing? 

Assuming there are no trades, i think you'll see Danault with Pacioretty and Drouin with Domi - the question for me, on the second group is which one plays centre.  I wouldnt be surprised at all to see Drouin at LW and Domi at Centre. 

Having said that, i think we may well end up moving Pacioretty for a centre.  Im not sure who - and i certainly dont know if this guy will be a roster player or a top prospect, but id be surprised at this point to see patches on the roster come october. 

[jennifer_rocket]

41 minutes ago, maas_art said:

Assuming there are no trades, i think you'll see Danault with Pacioretty and Drouin with Domi - the question for me, on the second group is which one plays centre.  I wouldnt be surprised at all to see Drouin at LW and Domi at Centre. 

Having said that, i think we may well end up moving Pacioretty for a centre.  Im not sure who - and i certainly dont know if this guy will be a roster player or a top prospect, but id be surprised at this point to see patches on the roster come october. 

I'm still so uncertain about what's going to happen with Pacioretty. I really, really hope he is traded for futures (picks and young prospects). However, if he starts the year on Danault's wing and plays with us until the trade deadline I wouldn't be shocked.

[habs1952]

How bad a GM is Bergevin? Bergevin is so bad it took him 7 years to turn this team into a bottom feeder.

[maas_art]

17 minutes ago, jennifer_rocket said:

I'm still so uncertain about what's going to happen with Pacioretty. I really, really hope he is traded for futures (picks and young prospects). However, if he starts the year on Danault's wing and plays with us until the trade deadline I wouldn't be shocked.

I also wouldnt shocked (surprised yes) to see him on the roster.  I just think its become such a distraction and Im pretty positive that MB wants a new captain.   

A couple of young prospects would be ideal.   If we could have Kotkaniemi, Poehling, Olofsson, Ikoenen AND a couple of other highly touted centre prospects we could finally be in good shape moving forward.    

We could stand to add a couple of top defensemen prospects too as I notice we're light there once again.  

10 minutes ago, habs1952 said:

How bad a GM is Bergevin? Bergevin is so bad it took him 7 years to turn this team into a bottom feeder.

In fairness, he's only just entering his seventh year but he's only really been messing things up royally for the last 3-4. 

[jennifer_rocket]

11 minutes ago, maas_art said:

  In fairness, he's only just entering his seventh year but he's only really been messing things up royally for the last 3-4. 

True. Let's not be too hard on Bergevin! 

RE: Your comment about lacking defensive prospect depth... INDEED. Mete and Juulsen have already graduated because of our poor veteran defensive depth. Beyond those two guys I really can't point to any individual in the organization that I would expect to possibly make a difference within a few years.

[maas_art]

6 minutes ago, jennifer_rocket said:

RE: Your comment about lacking defensive prospect depth... INDEED. Mete and Juulsen have already graduated because of our poor veteran defensive depth. Beyond those two guys I really can't point to any individual in the organization that I would expect to possibly make a difference within a few years.

I think both are still on track to be top 4 guys.  Maybe one of them is a top pairing guy, its tough to say.  We'll have no problem with third pairing players (plus they're always easy to acquire in trades) but we definitely need to fill up our coffers with regards to more top 4 guys.  There's an outside chance Mike Rielly is a #4 (and at 24 he'd be around for a while) but we'd need at least 1 or 2 more strong candidates to fill those top positions. 

Josh Brook has been developing nicely but does he have top 4 potential?  Cale Fleury? Scott Walford? Alexander Romanov is still an intriguing player to me - Timmins went way off the board to take him so does that mean he thinks he's got a super high ceiling?   

Time will tell.  Adding some more top end prospects would not hurt. 

[Habs=stanleycup]

4 hours ago, maas_art said:

I also wouldnt shocked (surprised yes) to see him on the roster.  I just think its become such a distraction and Im pretty positive that MB wants a new captain.   

A couple of young prospects would be ideal.   If we could have Kotkaniemi, Poehling, Olofsson, Ikoenen AND a couple of other highly touted centre prospects we could finally be in good shape moving forward.    

We could stand to add a couple of top defensemen prospects too as I notice we're light there once again.  

In fairness, he's only just entering his seventh year but he's only really been messing things up royally for the last 3-4. 

I can't understand this part of the captaincy being an issue for Pacioretty. Pacioretty himself is already so self critical, it wouldn't surprise me that he sees he has no leadership skills to be captain and has already failed at it; he is very pro management and always parrots the party line for Bergevin, so why would he resist the suggestion of giving up the captaincy?