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2017-18 Special Teams (PP and PK)


HabsRuleForever
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8 hours ago, HabsRuleForever said:

This is the thread to discuss our teams ability to defend shorthanded & produce goals with the man advantage. 

What will our power play look like at the points on the second wave?

 

:4224:

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Powerplay has Weber and Benn as solid options. Gelinas could make the second unit if he makes the squad. Best forward options: Pacioretty, Galchenyuk, Drouin.

PK will feature Alzner and likely Weber. Davidson could also play well here. Most defensively responsible forwards: Pacioretty, Plekanec, Gallagher, Shaw.

 

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4 hours ago, RyderRocks73 said:

Powerplay has Weber and Benn as solid options. Gelinas could make the second unit if he makes the squad. Best forward options: Pacioretty, Galchenyuk, Drouin.

PK will feature Alzner and likely Weber. Davidson could also play well here. Most defensively responsible forwards: Pacioretty, Plekanec, Gallagher, Shaw.

 

benn is a solid pp option?:6185:

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I think the Habs would be better off going 4F1D, 67/27/92/11 with Weber as unit 1, and four of 62/14/24/65/41/Hudon/Hemsky with Petry as unit 2. If Jerabek turns out to be a strong PP guy it changes but in general I still think 4F1D makes the most sense with the Habs having lots of solid top9ish forwards and only 1 defenseman that's a really good PP option (Weber).

That being said I think we'll still see 67/27/92 and Jerabek-Weber, then 62/14/11 and Streit/Davidson - Petry. I just think the Habs would be better off running 4F since there's tons of top9ish forwards who'd be good on a powerplay and only one defenseman who should be a lock on PP1 (Weber). 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 9/10/2017 at 7:49 AM, Noob616 said:

I think the Habs would be better off going 4F1D, 67/27/92/11 with Weber as unit 1, and four of 62/14/24/65/41/Hudon/Hemsky with Petry as unit 2. If Jerabek turns out to be a strong PP guy it changes but in general I still think 4F1D makes the most sense with the Habs having lots of solid top9ish forwards and only 1 defenseman that's a really good PP option (Weber).

The problem with this is that unless you have a really defensively responsible forward on the point you're going to bleed SHG chances.   Weber is a PP beast but if he's caught out of position, look out. He cannot get back in time, we've seen that time and again.  He needs a fast, mobile defensive partner on the PP to cover his shortcomings. 

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15 hours ago, maas_art said:

The problem with this is that unless you have a really defensively responsible forward on the point you're going to bleed SHG chances.   Weber is a PP beast but if he's caught out of position, look out. He cannot get back in time, we've seen that time and again.  He needs a fast, mobile defensive partner on the PP to cover his shortcomings. 

I don't know if you subscribe to The Athletic but there was a Sept 14 article by Tyler Dellow that breaks down the numbers for 4F1D vs 3F2D. You give up slightly more goals but score significantly more, the differential works out to about an additional G/60. I agree though, it'd be a lot easier to consider it if instead of Weber the 1D was more mobile. I still think overall it'd be worth it, assuming the core of PP1 is 67-92-27-6 I think the marginal value of one of Byron, Gallagher, Lehkonen, Plekanec, Shaw, Danault, Hudon, or Hemsky is higher than adding Petry or Jerabek to the power play.

One idea he suggested in the article was to essentially use Weber as a 4th forward, putting him in the Ovechkin/Stamkos spot. That's a really interesting idea to me, Weber has an incredible shot but it's not ideal to base a PP around point shots. If he was taking those shots 20 feet closer to the net it could be incredibly effective.

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1 hour ago, Noob616 said:

 I agree though, it'd be a lot easier to consider it if instead of Weber the 1D was more mobile. 

No complaints there, Id gladly do 4/1 if Subban was still the go-to guy.  Even Petry may work in that scenario. I worry about Weber with 4 forwards though, even though I understand what you're saying about differential so I wouldnt be opposed to trying it.

One idea he suggested in the article was to essentially use Weber as a 4th forward, putting him in the Ovechkin/Stamkos spot. That's a really interesting idea to me, Weber has an incredible shot but it's not ideal to base a PP around point shots. If he was taking those shots 20 feet closer to the net it could be incredibly effective.

This actually i like a lot:  Weber as the 4th forward.  Could you imagine that slapper or even his heavy wrist shot from closer to the slot?? Yikes. 

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9 hours ago, Noob616 said:

I don't know if you subscribe to The Athletic but there was a Sept 14 article by Tyler Dellow that breaks down the numbers for 4F1D vs 3F2D. You give up slightly more goals but score significantly more, the differential works out to about an additional G/60. I agree though, it'd be a lot easier to consider it if instead of Weber the 1D was more mobile. I still think overall it'd be worth it, assuming the core of PP1 is 67-92-27-6 I think the marginal value of one of Byron, Gallagher, Lehkonen, Plekanec, Shaw, Danault, Hudon, or Hemsky is higher than adding Petry or Jerabek to the power play.

One idea he suggested in the article was to essentially use Weber as a 4th forward, putting him in the Ovechkin/Stamkos spot. That's a really interesting idea to me, Weber has an incredible shot but it's not ideal to base a PP around point shots. If he was taking those shots 20 feet closer to the net it could be incredibly effective.

Haven't read the article, although in general 4th forwards make me nervous unless they're really elite. It's not just the skating and back-checking but the ability to keep pucks in at the line, shoot from distance, pass along the blue line, etc. I'd be fine with a Drouin there for example but if I had to opt between guys like Pacioretty, Plekanec, Gallagher, etc., it  would make me hesitate... then again, after Weber and Petry, the offense from our expected D looks minimal.

We do have two waves of PP though, and there's nothing to say Weber has to be on the first wave nor that we can't have one wave of 4F/1D and one of 3F/2D. You could always use the more mobile Petry in the 4-1 set... for example,

Pacioretty-Galchenyuk-Lehkonen

Drouin-Petry

and then

Hemsky-Hudon-Gallagher

Streit-Weber

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

The current PP set-up looked really good for Game 1 and then seems to have faltered. Here's what I would change:

Wave 1: The two guys on the half-boards controlling the puck should be Drouin and Galchenyuk, not Drouin and Max. AG has a better shot from distance than Max and he's better with the puck. Max is the guy who should be in AG's spot in the slot. He's got a better shot from in close and he's better at drifting into open space than AG has been. Hemsky needs to go. I'd prefer to keep Lehkonen in that spot as the down-low guy. The other big change I'd make would be to put Mete on the point. Hard to take Weber's big shot off the first wave, but the key to this unit is not having Weber blast away. These other guys don't play the style of getting in front for screens or getting to rebounds, they're sharp-shooters themselves. This unit should be built around quick puck movement, rotating players around the zone, and attacking the box. Mete is so good at reading the play, at knowing when to pinch, and at walking the O-zone blue line. I just think he's a better fit for the other players we have out there.

Wave 2: This is more where I'd have the D men teeing up shots. Two D men who shoot the same way has always been one technique that can help a PP, as one guy can make an easier cross-ice pass to feed the player on his off-wing for a big shot from the center of the ice (think Markov setting up Souray or MAB). So I'd have Weber on my left point as the shooter and Petry on the right point as the set-up guy. Down low, we need guys who can create traffic and recover loose pucks. Gallagher gets the front of the net job because he's one of the few guys who isn't afraid to go there. Hudon is really creative with the puck, so he gets a nod here too. And Plekanec would be by last guy, and the numbers suggest he's actually been underrated in terms of what he does for the PP in past years.

No need for Shaw, who is Gallagher but with much less skill and thus not a good option. And no need for Hemsky, who hasn't shown himself to be very effective.

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4 minutes ago, habs1952 said:

We spend/waste too much time trying to set Weber up for the big shot. If the shot isn't there go directly to plan b. There is a plan b, isn't there?

Silly question, when we both know that there isn't a Plan B. 

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Here is how I would look at a power play...

The team is doing really well out of the gates and causes the other team to take a penalty... we've got rhythm... hooray!

And now the other team is down a man... so why change the way we're playing, mix up the lines and defense? I wouldn't. To boot the lines stay mixed up after the power play, further taking away what we've worked so hard to build up. Loss of momentum is not a good thing... why do it to ourselves.

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29 minutes ago, habs1952 said:

Yeah, I know, but I asked it anyway. :lol: Maybe someone has better insight than I do. 

We can't score 5 on 5,,, and we can't score 5 on 4,,, but we do have 2 shortys. Do the math. :4322:

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When will the coaches realize Pacioretty and Gallagher are not PP specialists, and take them out? They're great 5vs5, but what do their PP stats tell you? Ditto for Plekanec and Shaw.

Why are Weber and Droiun on the same PP wave, when they shoot from the same side and likely jostle for the same slot to shoot? Weber needs someone to feed him from the opposite side for the one-timer. Who else is one-timer specialist? Galchenyuk! Either put him on opposite side of Weber on the same wave, so one-timer can be unleashed on either direction OR split them up! 

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