Galchenyuk

[FanFromAB]

I still can NOT understand the reluctance to use him at C. Just because he’s propping up our newly acquired golden boy? 

The most dynamic player is playing wing alongside Deslaurier? Wow. Is Therrien back there pulling the strings still? 

[jwlk]

MB does not like him at center, unfortunately that's all it takes to kill that idea, moving drouin to the wing already stings MB's ego, could you imagine how much pride he would have to swallow to say he was wrong and AG is going back to center, wont happen

[maas_art]

Julien is a great coach. He has a system that has been proven to work and he is creative enough to match other coaches in the playoffs.

However, like any coach, he has his faults.  His single biggest is that he does not adapt systems to players - players must adapt to his system - no matter how talented or special they may be. One of the big constants on a claude julien team is that the centres have to be defensively responsible.  He'd be happier with 4 plekanecs than 4 galchenyuks.  Its just how he operates.

I dont blame Julien - this is how he's always coached, this is how he will continue to coach.  The fault lies with Bergevin for creating a roster that is totally unusable for the coach he just hired.  Heck, our roster now is probably more ill-suited to Julien's system than when he was hired. 

 

I have no doubt that on the right team, AG is a top 2 centre.  On this team, the best we can hope for it seems would be to find a #1 centre (John Tavares this summer?) and plop him between Drouin & Galchenyuk. 

[CaptWelly]

41 minutes ago, jwlk said:

MB does not like him at center, unfortunately that's all it takes to kill that idea, moving drouin to the wing already stings MB's ego, could you imagine how much pride he would have to swallow to say he was wrong and AG is going back to center, wont happen

I wouldn't mind seeing him get another shot. That said CJ had a player in Bergeron , who like Toews is a coaches dream. A 200' player and as much skill as Chucky has he still isn't great defensively. I will say I have liked his play 100% better lately , yes he's scoring but he's actually back checking and skating and trying a lot harder than he was earlier this season. Like Patrick Kane or Kovalev , you don't have to play center to be dynamic.

[maas_art]

Just now, CaptWelly said:

I wouldn't mind seeing him get another shot. That said CJ had a player in Bergeron , who like Toews is a coaches dream. A 200' player and as much skill as Chucky has he still isn't great defensively. I will say I have liked his play 100% better lately , yes he's scoring but he's actually back checking and skating and trying a lot harder than he was earlier this season. Like Patrick Kane or Kovalev , you don't have to play center to be dynamic.

Totally.  There is no fault in Drouin being a great LW or Galchenyuk being a great LW or RW. 

The fault lies with Bergevin for not getting us more options.   I mean in our system we have two guys (Poehling and Ikonen) who might be top 2 centres, but you cant stand pat. You never know who will and who wont work out. We need to be adding prospects and bringing in more options.  

[CaptWelly]

7 minutes ago, maas_art said:

Julien is a great coach. He has a system that has been proven to work and he is creative enough to match other coaches in the playoffs.

However, like any coach, he has his faults.  His single biggest is that he does not adapt systems to players - players must adapt to his system - no matter how talented or special they may be. One of the big constants on a claude julien team is that the centres have to be defensively responsible.  He'd be happier with 4 plekanecs than 4 galchenyuks.  Its just how he operates.

I dont blame Julien - this is how he's always coached, this is how he will continue to coach.  The fault lies with Bergevin for creating a roster that is totally unusable for the coach he just hired.  Heck, our roster now is probably more ill-suited to Julien's system than when he was hired. 

 

I have no doubt that on the right team, AG is a top 2 centre.  On this team, the best we can hope for it seems would be to find a #1 centre (John Tavares this summer?) and plop him between Drouin & Galchenyuk. 

Julien is a smart coach and it's more like a Bergeron not Pleks he'd rather have. The years Babcock was with the Wings (winning cups) he came out and said that Datsyk could win the Rocket Richard Award but he preferred him to win the Selkie because the team would win more. Everyone talks about "todays" NHL game. Well every coach wants the 200' center and in todays game with quick transition you need the two way center more and more. Austin Mathews first game ever 4 goals they lose 5-4 and in the interview he's upset with himself that he lost his man and that was the game winning goal! That's a player that gets it.

[Ravadak]

3 hours ago, CaptWelly said:

Julien is a smart coach and it's more like a Bergeron not Pleks he'd rather have. The years Babcock was with the Wings (winning cups) he came out and said that Datsyk could win the Rocket Richard Award but he preferred him to win the Selkie because the team would win more. Everyone talks about "todays" NHL game. Well every coach wants the 200' center and in todays game with quick transition you need the two way center more and more. Austin Mathews first game ever 4 goals they lose 5-4 and in the interview he's upset with himself that he lost his man and that was the game winning goal! That's a player that gets it.

Even in the game last night, Galchenyk looked great, was buzzing around, looked to be creating lots of oppurtunities but at the end of the night ends up minus 3 worst on the team.

Then you have Pleks, 55% on the faceoffs, 4 shots on net, Galchenyk our star offensive player had 5 shots on net with over 5 minutes of PP time

Everyone is complaining about Pleks plays against Tavares all night quietly did his job. Ends up even for the night. The only time Taveres created anything was when Pleks was not on the ice.  

People see his talent but are reluctant to look at his results, they blame coaches, players he plays with, position he plays, every excuse in the book...Yet the result is always the same, he is on the ice when the puck ends up in our net usually more than almost any other player on the team. 

[Regis22]

7 hours ago, CaptWelly said:

 That said CJ had a player in Bergeron , who like Toews is a coaches dream. A 200' player and as much skill as Chucky has he still isn't great defensively.

You do realize Bergeron has won the Frank J. Selke Trophy four times (  demonstrates the most skill in the defensive component of the game )

[Regis22]

4 hours ago, Ravadak said:

People see his talent but are reluctant to look at his results, they blame coaches, players he plays with, position he plays, every excuse in the book...Yet the result is always the same, he is on the ice when the puck ends up in our net usually more than almost any other player on the team. 

AG ( - 20 )  Drouin ( - 19 )  PEtry ( -22 ) and max ( -13  who is terrible at back checking  )are right up there but only AG gets singled out

[jennifer_rocket]

Jacob de la Rose about to get a crack at centering Drouin and Galchenyuk. Byron now playing center despite zero experience at the position.

The organization is being stupid.

[Habs_Hockey_Nutz]

2 hours ago, jennifer_rocket said:

Jacob de la Rose about to get a crack at centering Drouin and Galchenyuk. Byron now playing center despite zero experience at the position.

The organization is being stupid.

I'm actually okay with the first part f your statement... but the team did have other options available like (i.e.- bring up Cracknell for a shot), Froese and Hudon.

[HabsAlways]

11 hours ago, Regis22 said:

AG ( - 20 )  Drouin ( - 19 )  PEtry ( -22 ) and max ( -13  who is terrible at back checking  )are right up there but only AG gets singled out

It's confirmation bias on the part of Ravadak ... AG is on the ice for a goal against and that confirms to him his offensive upside is completely outweighed.   

Given playing time AG is a player capable of generating about 0.75-1.00 ppg ... something not to sneeze at in the modern NHL.     John Tavares is a -1?  Do we criticize him for his defensive game?  Sidney Crosby is -10,  Malkin -3, Patrick Kane -3,  Radulov -3.     There are many good to great offensive players who's defensive game leaves much to be desired yet we don't harp on it.    AG has 11g 15a on a team without a puck moving defenceman  and arguably one of the worst defensive cores we've had in the last 20 years.   His -20 is understandable given those conditions.     

Being on the ice for 20 more goals than he's generated is NOT a direct reflection of AG but a statement on how bad this team is period.  Continuously griping about AG's defensive woes ignores that the entire team including Price are playing like AHLers.    If our defense was better and our goaltender playing to his abilities I highly doubt AG would be -20 and any defensive lapses he had would be more than easily covered by the dee and goaltender.

[HabsAlways]

28 minutes ago, Habs_Hockey_Nutz said:

I'm actually okay with the first part f your statement... but the team did have other options available like (i.e.- bring up Cracknell for a shot), Froese and Hudon.

Hudon, Patches, Byron on that line ... Hudon probably takes the face-offs, but Byron acts as the center as he's faster and the better 200 foot player.

[Habs_Hockey_Nutz]

48 minutes ago, HabsAlways said:

Hudon, Patches, Byron on that line ... Hudon probably takes the face-offs, but Byron acts as the center as he's faster and the better 200 foot player.

He may be faster (But IMO not by that much) but he is not really that great defensively 5 on 5 from what I've witnessed... and Hudon is a more creative player with experience at center. That said, as I said there were other options for the line-up... i.e.- Cracknell has been playing well in a top-line center role with the Rocket. He also has size and grit in his game... plus NHL experience. There are a number of other players that could be sent back down I believe.

[BigTed3]

Bottom line is that it's a bit absurd to be going forward with DLR as your 1st-line center and Byron as your 2nd-line center. Plekanec's the only guy in the right seat as a 3rd-line center. The sadder part is that while we have injuries, the only real center we're waiting on is Danault, who is himself a 3C. I think one of the Habs reporters said it best yesterday when he stated "there are a handful of teams in the league without a true number one center, but the Habs have got to be the only team in the league without a number two center now either." It's pretty pathetic asset management from our GM, especially when he's managed to give up our best prospect (Sergachev) for a guy that half a season into his first year here has already been removed from the center position, while the only player on our current roster who's shown he can produce at a 1st line rate down the middle can't even get another shot there ahead of AHL-caliber players.

[maas_art]

20 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

Bottom line is that it's a bit absurd to be going forward with DLR as your 1st-line center and Byron as your 2nd-line center. Plekanec's the only guy in the right seat as a 3rd-line center. The sadder part is that while we have injuries, the only real center we're waiting on is Danault, who is himself a 3C. I think one of the Habs reporters said it best yesterday when he stated "there are a handful of teams in the league without a true number one center, but the Habs have got to be the only team in the league without a number two center now either." It's pretty pathetic asset management from our GM, especially when he's managed to give up our best prospect (Sergachev) for a guy that half a season into his first year here has already been removed from the center position, while the only player on our current roster who's shown he can produce at a 1st line rate down the middle can't even get another shot there ahead of AHL-caliber players.

I read a comment on EOTP that made me LOL.  One guy said he thinks Tavares will sign with us and will look so good in the CH.  The other guy said "I dunno... do you think he really wants to play left wing?"  

Re: Byron and DLR - i agree.  Im not sure why Hudon, who does have centre experience - and is still projecting as top 6 - wouldnt get a look.  He's the only guy on the roster (if we buy in to AG and JD being better suited as wingers) who projects as a possible #2 centre.

[jeff33]

drouin...a winger...finally goes back to wing. 

chuck..a center remains at wing

hudon..a center....remains on wing

byron...a winger....is now gonna play center

mcarron....a center.....i guess is never going to see montreal again

 

[habs1952]

Teams know we need a #1 center and are gonna be demanding a hefty, hefty price for one. I don't even think Pacioretty + gets us what we need.

[maas_art]

1 hour ago, habs1952 said:

Teams know we need a #1 center and are gonna be demanding a hefty, hefty price for one. I don't even think Pacioretty + gets us what we need.

I disagree.  Teams that want Pacioretty will pay as much as he is worth to them.  Our needs are pretty secondary - although I think its hugely unlikely we get an established centre for him, because no smart GM trades for a player at one position and then weakens himself at another.  Right? 

[Ravadak]

20 hours ago, Regis22 said:

AG ( - 20 )  Drouin ( - 19 )  PEtry ( -22 ) and max ( -13  who is terrible at back checking  )are right up there but only AG gets singled out

Again when I see a post like this, I have to assume you are using blinders when you value Galchenyk, it’s like going into a candy store and seeing the most beautiful candy in the world and buying just based on that, without knowing all the facts. That candy leaves a horrible sour taste in your mouth.

Statically he has been brutal. It does not matter who he plays with, who the coach is, it’s a fact and there is plenty of data to prove that. But, everyone continues to look at the beautiful candy and ignore the horrible sour taste it will leave in your mouth everytime you take it.

Forget about deeman, different position, I am glad you mentioned other forwards though. 

Patches specifically, I was under valuing him just because he was not scoring at the same pace as in previous years and his numbers are actually better then I thought. His value is much higher than I have been giving him credit for. 

C+- = Corsi plus minus

-45 - Galchenyk

-2 - Drouin playing new position, new team

+104 - Patches

CF% = Corsi for %

Oh by the way the lower the number not good J

47.97 - Galchenyk

49.91 - Druoin, new position, new team

54.48 - Patches

GF/60 = Goals for per 60 minutes

Again lower number is not good J

1.47 - Galchenyk

1.87 - Drouin, new position, new team

2.26 - Patches

[maas_art]

32 minutes ago, Ravadak said:

Again when I see a post like this, I have to assume you are using blinders when you value Galchenyk, it’s like going into a candy store and seeing the most beautiful candy in the world and buying just based on that, without knowing all the facts. That candy leaves a horrible sour taste in your mouth.

Statically he has been brutal. It does not matter who he plays with, who the coach is, it’s a fact and there is plenty of data to prove that. But, everyone continues to look at the beautiful candy and ignore the horrible sour taste it will leave in your mouth everytime you take it.

Its also a bit of chicken and egg though. The whole team has been brutal so to say it doenst matter who he plays with implies that Drouin has been playing better than Patches or Lehkonen.    Aside from Gallagher (who Galchenyuk has not played with this year) our whole forward group has been bad.  And ultimately, data only gives you numbers to analyze. It does not draw conclusions, we have to do that - and those are still, in the end, opinions. 

If we use the candy analogy you started, you're missing one key point:  Maybe your candy tastes sour because it was supposed to be stored in a cool place & you've been keeping it in the front window & its soured.  

 

Until Galchenyuk is given a real chance to play:  put him at centre, with gallagher, give them Drouin or Patches on the wing - and allowed to play, not benched for a bad play - its tough to make sweeping statements about him.   Im not opposed to moving him and if we got a top centre or even a young #1LD for him, id be ok with it, but I am fairly confident in saying that if we trade him at what is probably his all time lowest value, and get what i think we might get for him, we will regret it for years and years to come.  

[jwlk]

how much of that was well he was playing 10 min or less a game on the 4th line, shuffled through the roster, and as for he other night, 1 of those goals you can blame on him, the other 2 were not, unless your saying the moment AG steps on the ice the team loses all sense of there defencive responsibilities, other than that, we know and everyone else knows AG has no defencive abilities, so play him in the proper role and let him shine, or keep whining about him and do nothing

 

 

[Ravadak]

1 minute ago, maas_art said:

Its also a bit of chicken and egg though. The whole team has been brutal so to say it doenst matter who he plays with implies that Drouin has been playing better than Patches or Lehkonen.    Aside from Gallagher (who Galchenyuk has not played with this year) our whole forward group has been bad.  And ultimately, data only gives you numbers to analyze. It does not draw conclusions, we have to do that - and those are still, in the end, opinions. 

If we use the candy analogy you started, you're missing one key point:  Maybe your candy tastes sour because it was supposed to be stored in a cool place & you've been keeping it in the front window & its soured.  

 

Until Galchenyuk is given a real chance to play:  put him at centre, with gallagher, give them Drouin or Patches on the wing - and allowed to play, not benched for a bad play - its tough to make sweeping statements about him.   I am fairly confident in saying that if we trade him at what is probably his all time lowest value, we will regret it for years and years to come.  

How many new linemates, offensive zone starts, power play time do we need to give him, everybody gets the blame for his results, Its because of his linemates, its because the coaches don't use him properly, its because he doesn't play enough at the end of the game, or not enough at the beginning of the game, his plus minus does not matter, his CF% does matter, they give him the wrong color t shirt, they pick on him when they should caudle him and on and on and on. 

Did you watch the last game. He looked great out there, anyone that watched that game would probably feel that way. Yet for those that checked the stats at the end of the night. He had over 5 minutes of power play time and only registered one more shot then Pleks with 0 PP time, He had 2 assist, only one primary, ended up - 3 on the night worst on the team. I know one game, his linemates, he wasn't playing center, the coach put him on the wrong side of the ice  blah blah blah.

Take off the blinders, take a deep breath go to www.corsica.hockey go to skater stats, Filter habs (montreal) forwards, choose this year last year, the last three yeas it doesn't matter he will be in the bottom group of the forwards in most categories. IT not bad luck, its not his linemates , its not his coaches, its not the cosmic rays, its galchenyk

[Ravadak]

17 minutes ago, jwlk said:

how much of that was well he was playing 10 min or less a game on the 4th line, shuffled through the roster, and as for he other night, 1 of those goals you can blame on him, the other 2 were not, unless your saying the moment AG steps on the ice the team loses all sense of there defencive responsibilities, other than that, we know and everyone else knows AG has no defencive abilities, so play him in the proper role and let him shine, or keep whining about him and do nothing

 

 

 

I am not sure why you follow me around.

But  why don’t you put forward what you propose, present me with some actual data, because you mention 4^th line minutes, why don’t you give me a % of his fourth line minutes compared to his other minutes….

Don't just use the same thing everyone else say, its his linemates, its  bcause he doesn't play center, its because he played on the fourth line the coaches don't like him,

As I mentioned earlier take off the blinders, take a deep breath go to www.corsica.hockey go to skater stats, Filter habs (montreal) forwards, choose this year last year, the last three yeas it doesn't matter he will be in the bottom group of the forwards in most categories. IT's not bad luck, its not his linemates , its not his coaches, its not the cosmic rays, its galchenyk

[maas_art]

16 minutes ago, Ravadak said:

Take off the blinders, take a deep breath go to 

Im happy to have thoughtful discussions with you but when you make ridiculously condescending remarks like this, dont expect many to have any interest in your opinions.