Carr Continues To Sit

[Ravadak]

I cannot for the live of me explain why Carr is not playing either he should be ahead of almost anyone of our forwards, he has only played 177 minutes of 5 on 5 hockey, but per minutes he has a higher scoring % then any forward  on our team

Player   TOI                                         5on5 Min             Points 5 on 5           % 5 on 5 points 

DANIEL.CARR                                     177.95                   8                              4.50%

PHILLIP.DANAULT                            564.75                   21                           3.72%

PAUL.BYRON                                     601.97                   21                           3.49%

NICOLAS.DESLAURIERS                 302.03                   10                           3.31%

MAX.PACIORETTY                            644.48                   20                           3.10%

BRENDAN.GALLAGHER                  621.8                     19                           3.06%

TOMAS.PLEKANEC                          645.17                   18                           2.79%

BYRON.FROESE                                 257.35                   7                              2.72%

ALEX.GALCHENYUK                         599.17                   15                           2.50%

CHARLES.HUDON                             539.87                   13                           2.41%

JONATHAN.DROUIN                       583.93                   14                           2.40%

ANDREW.SHAW                               565.48                   12                           2.12%

 

[HabsRuleForever]

Why is there no drive to insert Carr into the line-up?

[kinot-2]

Here's what usually happens when MB calls up a scoring player from the farm. He's put on the 4th line with pluggers, and is given 8-10 mins of ice time. Because he doesn't score after say 8-10 games, he's sent down because he failed to impress. Seems it's been this way for years. 

[BigTed3]

Agreed... it baffles me why the team doesn't play Carr. The rumor is that Bergevin doesn't like him, which seems to play a big role in who gets ice time on this team. Last year, Hudon faced the same thing, though, and he's getting a little more of a look this year. But in Carr's case, he's been around a bit longer and I see the Habs just letting him go at the end of this year (if not before). It's a shame and another waste of talent on Bergevin's part.

[tony5775]

Time to start realizing that a lot of our problems come from Julien and his choices. Logan Shaw was suppose to come and shore up center ice. He is not playing center and getting dressed over Carr. You do not hire a coach and pay him 25 million dollars to make decisions for him. At some point they will have to bite the bullet and let him go. Only way we will get Carr on the ice and Sherbak in the line up again. 

[Habs=stanleycup]

20 minutes ago, tony5775 said:

Time to start realizing that a lot of our problems come from Julien and his choices. Logan Shaw was suppose to come and shore up center ice. He is not playing center and getting dressed over Carr. You do not hire a coach and pay him 25 million dollars to make decisions for him. At some point they will have to bite the bullet and let him go. Only way we will get Carr on the ice and Sherbak in the line up again. 

How do we know Julien is not being micro-managed by MB, and therefore limited in his own decision making.

[rocketbelifleur]

1 hour ago, BigTed3 said:

Agreed... it baffles me why the team doesn't play Carr. The rumor is that Bergevin doesn't like him, which seems to play a big role in who gets ice time on this team. Last year, Hudon faced the same thing, though, and he's getting a little more of a look this year. But in Carr's case, he's been around a bit longer and I see the Habs just letting him go at the end of this year (if not before). It's a shame and another waste of talent on Bergevin's part.

Was going to post, basically, the same thing. He could easily be their 3rd best goal scorer - maybe even their best.

Maybe that's his (and Scherbak's) problem - they refuse to have the skill/creativity beaten out of them. (Sometimes you wonder ...)

 

 

[habs1952]

5 minutes ago, rocketbelifleur said:

Was going to post, basically, the same thing. He could easily be their 3rd best goal scorer - maybe even their best.

Maybe that's his (and Scherbak's) problem - they refuse to have the skill/creativity beaten out of them. (Sometimes you wonder ...)

 

 

  Never thought of that!

[tony5775]

8 minutes ago, Habs=stanleycup said:

How do we know Julien is not being micro-managed by MB, and therefore limited in his own decision making.

Well lets see Jean-Jacques Daigneault is running the defense. Kirk Mueller seems to handle all the pulled goalie plays. Would hope that Julien does something. Would like to see him blow up at a game and get ejected, many times this could of happened. He just seems way to content to float along.

[ramcharger440]

Poor Carr he is on the worst run team in the NHL. this team is a Joke!

[Habs=stanleycup]

2 hours ago, tony5775 said:

Well lets see Jean-Jacques Daigneault is running the defense. Kirk Mueller seems to handle all the pulled goalie plays. Would hope that Julien does something. Would like to see him blow up at a game and get ejected, many times this could of happened. He just seems way to content to float along.

Perhaps we should consider the possibility that julien wasn't even given autonomy to choose his own coaching staff.

[maas_art]

9 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

Agreed... it baffles me why the team doesn't play Carr. The rumor is that Bergevin doesn't like him, which seems to play a big role in who gets ice time on this team. Last year, Hudon faced the same thing, though, and he's getting a little more of a look this year. But in Carr's case, he's been around a bit longer and I see the Habs just letting him go at the end of this year (if not before). It's a shame and another waste of talent on Bergevin's part.

I really wish we had a better idea of how much micro-managing MB is doing over CJ.  There are a number of tell-tale signs but the biggest one for me was when Julien made it seem like he was going to consider playing AG at centre and then the very next day basically denied it all.  Sure makes it seem like MB stepped in & said "oh no you won't."

[jennifer_rocket]

Yeah, I'm not sure why Carr isn't getting into the lineup... He seems like a useful player. He should be returned to Laval if he's not going to play with Montreal. I hope this doesn't end up being another Andrighetto situation, where we trade him for a useless, "gritter" forward.

[H_T_L]

39 minutes ago, jennifer_rocket said:

Yeah, I'm not sure why Carr isn't getting into the lineup... He seems like a useful player. He should be returned to Laval if he's not going to play with Montreal. I hope this doesn't end up being another Andrighetto situation, where we trade him for a useless, "gritter" forward.

I think he has to be waived to send him back

[HabsRuleForever]

Carr is playing tonight? He better score four goals or he’ll be sitting again,

[HabsRuleForever]

Back to Logan Shaw as Carr sits again.

This team has no drive.

[kinot-2]

7 minutes ago, HabsRuleForever said:

Back to Logan Shaw as Carr sits again.

This team has no drive.

Well, it's driving me nuts!!!

[habs1952]

13 minutes ago, HabsRuleForever said:

Back to Logan Shaw as Carr sits again.

This team has no drive.

This team is missing a lot of things starting with Geoff Molson.

[BigTed3]

2 hours ago, HabsRuleForever said:

Back to Logan Shaw as Carr sits again.

This team has no drive.

Almost got the Carr re-started but not quite. I thought he played well last game. Baffling how he can't stay in the line-up. He's better than Loagn Shaw, Froese, and DLR and it's not even close. And he's also better than Deslauriers, even though Deslauriers has played decent hockey this year (albeit with a lot of puck luck).

[habs1952]

2 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

Almost got the Carr re-started but not quite. I thought he played well last game. Baffling how he can't stay in the line-up. He's better than Loagn Shaw, Froese, and DLR and it's not even close. And he's also better than Deslauriers, even though Deslauriers has played decent hockey this year (albeit with a lot of puck luck).

I'm disappointed in you. Deslaurier works hard, gets a few goals and you feel the need to denigrate him. I've never heard a word about Pacioretty's puck luck.

[Habs=stanleycup]

1 hour ago, habs1952 said:

I'm disappointed in you. Deslaurier works hard, gets a few goals and you feel the need to denigrate him. I've never heard a word about Pacioretty's puck luck.

Agreed. Myself I like Deslaurier too, he brings alot of much needed intensity.

[BigTed3]

1 hour ago, habs1952 said:

I'm disappointed in you. Deslaurier works hard, gets a few goals and you feel the need to denigrate him. I've never heard a word about Pacioretty's puck luck.

I'm not denigrating him in the least, merely stating what is fact. As I said, I think Deslauriers has played decent hockey and he certainly works hard. But he's not a 20-goal scorer and the fact is that this season is an anomaly. Here are his shooting percentages at 5v5 in his career:

2013-14: 3.70%

14-15:7.04%

15-16:8.45%

16-17: 0.00% (and this is over 300+ min of ice time, not just 3 shifts)

17-18: 15.91%

 

His Corsi is 46.77% and his career averages in this regard have been between 34-45%. So he has been and continues to be a bad possession player whose stats have been propped up this year by a shooting percentage that is far above what is typical for him. So that's the very definition of puck luck. It doesn't mean I don't think he worked hard, it just means I don't think he's going to be able to reproduce his point production in future years.

 

 

[BigTed3]

And FWIW, I've criticized Pacioretty for various things in the past too, like his lack of hustle, his poor PP performance, and bad penalties at certain times. But if there's one thing you can't accuse MP of, it's puck luck. He's a streaky scorer game to game, but at the end of the year. he's actually very consistent. His 5v5 shooting percentages range from 7.5 to 12.7% over the past 6 years, and this year, he's down at 5.26%, He's consistently a positive possession player, and he generates a lot of shot attempts. So MP scores because he puts himself in position to score, and he continues to do that this year. He in fact has the opposite of puck luck, he's had less goals than his effort should have yielded him, and his numbers will almost certainly improve with time (as we've seen them do over the past month).

[habs1952]

1 hour ago, BigTed3 said:

And FWIW, I've criticized Pacioretty for various things in the past too, like his lack of hustle, his poor PP performance, and bad penalties at certain times. But if there's one thing you can't accuse MP of, it's puck luck. He's a streaky scorer game to game, but at the end of the year. he's actually very consistent. His 5v5 shooting percentages range from 7.5 to 12.7% over the past 6 years, and this year, he's down at 5.26%, He's consistently a positive possession player, and he generates a lot of shot attempts. So MP scores because he puts himself in position to score, and he continues to do that this year. He in fact has the opposite of puck luck, he's had less goals than his effort should have yielded him, and his numbers will almost certainly improve with time (as we've seen them do over the past month).

MP puts himself in shooting position because his linemates do all the work to get him the puck. Also, are his possesion numbers positive because of his play or because his linemates do all the work retrieving and controlling so he can cherry pick on their hard work? Are there actual numbers to show how much time MP actually controls the puck? 

I'm not trying to argue Deslaurier over Carr in the lineup but I don't think you had to add ' albeit with a lot of puck ' to your statement. Deslaurier works hard and deserved every goal he's scored. And sure, Pacioretty may well score his 30 goals this year, but he sure wasn't scoring any of those goals when we needed them.

[BigTed3]

51 minutes ago, habs1952 said:

MP puts himself in shooting position because his linemates do all the work to get him the puck. Also, are his possesion numbers positive because of his play or because his linemates do all the work retrieving and controlling so he can cherry pick on their hard work? Are there actual numbers to show how much time MP actually controls the puck? 

I'm not trying to argue Deslaurier over Carr in the lineup but I don't think you had to add ' albeit with a lot of puck ' to your statement. Deslaurier works hard and deserved every goal he's scored. And sure, Pacioretty may well score his 30 goals this year, but he sure wasn't scoring any of those goals when we needed them.

Deslauriers is a great story. I agree with you that the kid works hard and plays his role well. I'm not trying to take that away from him. But my point remains that it is not realistic to expect him to be a goal scorer and to continue to produce at his current rate. The data clearly shows that the Habs are being outshot and outchanced when he's on the ice. The data also shows that he's scoring on a very high percentage of his shots, which simply isn't sustainable in his case. So I'm absolutely fine with fans cheering for Deslauriers and appreciating his hard work, but I also believe he's benefited from luck and won't be able to reproduce what he's done. The data shows that.

As for Pacioretty, I don't have data about how much time the puck is on his stick. I agree with you that he doesn't do a lot of the dirty work himself. But regardless of what he does, we can't deny that when he is on the ice, the team generates shots and chances to a higher degree than we give them up. And when Danault or Shaw or Lehkonen or Hudon go and play with lesser players, they don't generate those same results. So it's not just that guys are digging pucks out of the corner for him. I am far from being Pacioretty's biggest fan, but the guy has been one of the most consistent goal scorers in the league for a while. It's easy to find another Deslauriers or Shaw or Carr, and it's hard to find players who can do what Pacioretty does.