THE TRADE DEADLINE - FEB 26th

[HabsRuleForever]

How much worse will our team look after the trade deadline or will we do our usual, famous nobody for somebody worse trade?

[maas_art]

I actually think it will be 1 of 2 scenarios:

1) we make good moves for our rebuild:  Patches for multiple assets, Pleks for a decent pick or prospect, etc. I dont think AG or any other young players will be moved. 

2) we do basically nothing.  If Molson has mandated that MB cant make moves, or has to pass trades by the BOG or something. Its possible we dont even move plekanec if they think they will resign him for $2m as an UFA in the summer. 

 

I really dont think we're going to see a bad - AG for a 29 year old centre or something - type of move. 

[FanFromAB]

3 minutes ago, maas_art said:

I actually think it will be 1 of 2 scenarios:

1) we make good moves for our rebuild:  Patches for multiple assets, Pleks for a decent pick or prospect, etc. I dont think AG or any other young players will be moved. 

2) we do basically nothing.  If Molson has mandated that MB cant make moves, or has to pass trades by the BOG or something. Its possible we dont even move plekanec if they think they will resign him for $2m as an UFA in the summer. 

 

I really dont think we're going to see a bad - AG for a 29 year old centre or something - type of move. 

I truly hope that you're right with regard to the AG comment, I think we are just now seeing the true emergence of a young player.  He is ELITE! 

[maas_art]

29 minutes ago, FanFromAB said:

I truly hope that you're right with regard to the AG comment, I think we are just now seeing the true emergence of a young player.  He is ELITE! 

Here's my read on MB and AG.  

I think it seems pretty clear he doesnt like him. I dont know what it is - he doesnt use his size, he has too much fun, no clue. But for whatever reason I think there's some bias towards AG.   Maybe he feels like if Alex did what they asked he'd be a better player or whatever but his reaction towards a young talented player are not good.

That said - i believe that MB knows his value.  Reading between the lines of what guys like Dregger and Friedman have said MB is looking for, i get the sense that he values AG very highly.  

So, on the negative side, I feel like MB would happily trade him if the right deal came along, but on the positive side, I think MB wants a lot for him so that deal is quite unlikely. 


 

[HabsRuleForever]

On 2018-01-30 at 11:39 AM, maas_art said:

Here's my read on MB and AG.  

I think it seems pretty clear he doesnt like him. I dont know what it is - he doesnt use his size, he has too much fun, no clue. But for whatever reason I think there's some bias towards AG.   Maybe he feels like if Alex did what they asked he'd be a better player or whatever but his reaction towards a young talented player are not good.

That said - i believe that MB knows his value.  Reading between the lines of what guys like Dregger and Friedman have said MB is looking for, i get the sense that he values AG very highly.  

So, on the negative side, I feel like MB would happily trade him if the right deal came along, but on the positive side, I think MB wants a lot for him so that deal is quite unlikely. 


 

Maybe he can get PK.

[habs1952]

This thread should be titled: Fire the GM before the team implodes.

[Habs=stanleycup]

1 minute ago, habs1952 said:

This thread should be titled: Fire the GM before the team implodes.

[BigTed3]

Apron Basu on The Athletic with an article about how the Habs commissioned a statistical analysis to compare Subban's performance to that of Shea Weber A MONTH BEFORE THE TRADE. Shows two things:

1. Further evidence that Marc Bergevin was lying to us about not looking to trade Subban and about how the Weber trade came out of nowhere at the draft at David Poile's suggestion. Clearly, the Habs were interested in figuring out Subban's trade value and they were interested in Weber. We had the secretive Pierre Gauthier, but what's worse is the lying Bergevin. 

2. The Habs got this data, most of which would have favored Subban (we all have access to similar data after all) and they still went ahead and dealt for Weber. Shows a complete lack of judgment despite information, which corroborates the story Matt Pfeffer gave.

[maas_art]

2 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

Apron Basu on The Athletic with an article about how the Habs commissioned a statistical analysis to compare Subban's performance to that of Shea Weber A MONTH BEFORE THE TRADE. Shows two things:

1. Further evidence that Marc Bergevin was lying to us about not looking to trade Subban and about how the Weber trade came out of nowhere at the draft at David Poile's suggestion. Clearly, the Habs were interested in figuring out Subban's trade value and they were interested in Weber. We had the secretive Pierre Gauthier, but what's worse is the lying Bergevin. 

2. The Habs got this data, most of which would have favored Subban (we all have access to similar data after all) and they still went ahead and dealt for Weber. Shows a complete lack of judgment despite information, which corroborates the story Matt Pfeffer gave.

From a logical standpoint it also explains the biggest headscratcher of the whole deal:  You dont like Subban and you want to move him, fine but get fair value for him. In his prime Weber was maybe Subban's equal but 4 years older?  Means there HAS to be extras coming with him. 

If Poile asks for Subban, you dont counter with Weber, you counter with Weber + _______   The fact we accepted 1 for 1 says to me either MB is a horrible negotiator (which he certainly hasnt always proven to be) or, he was the guy who was really interested in Weber all along. 

The fact they had all the data for a month is even scarier than them just not doing their homework.  They did their homework & still failed. 

[BigTed3]

2 minutes ago, maas_art said:

From a logical standpoint it also explains the biggest headscratcher of the whole deal:  You dont like Subban and you want to move him, fine but get fair value for him. In his prime Weber was maybe Subban's equal but 4 years older?  Means there HAS to be extras coming with him. 

If Poile asks for Subban, you dont counter with Weber, you counter with Weber + _______   The fact we accepted 1 for 1 says to me either MB is a horrible negotiator (which he certainly hasnt always proven to be) or, he was the guy who was really interested in Weber all along. 

The fact they had all the data for a month is even scarier than them just not doing their homework.  They did their homework & still failed. 

I really don't know what's worse... either they didn't care to do their jobs or they did their jobs badly. Either way, it's pathetic.

[H_T_L]

The only thing that makes sense is that they really thought he was a team cancer ( in their minds) and needed to make the move before his new deal kicked in.  MB's love and support for MT factored in hugely. Trading him out of division was likely a priority and i'm guessing Nashville;s return was likely the best offer  under those self imposed restrictions.  

[jennifer_rocket]

I have no faith in our current leadership to do the - what I consider - to be the "right" thing this deadline.

• Tomas Plekanec should be traded. Resign him at fair value in the summer, if you want.
• Every effort should be made to trade Max Pacioretty, Jordie Benn, David Schlemko, and Andrew Shaw.

There are many other players I consider trade-able at this time. However, I think those mentioned above are the ones we have a shot at moving before the deadline.

I fully expect MB to accomplish very little, to be honest. Maybe he'll move Plekanec. I also wouldn't be surprised to see him resigned on a two-year deal or something stupid.

[H_T_L]

The 3 Rangers on waivers all cleared today.  Shocking that MB managed to keep his mitts off.

[maas_art]

28 minutes ago, H_T_L said:

Trading him out of division was likely a priority and i'm guessing Nashville;s return was likely the best offer  under those self imposed restrictions.  

There is strong indication that both Edmonton and Vancouver offered good packages which would have clearly been better in hindsight - but should have been better to anyone who can analyze talent, even at that time.

I think MB felt like he had to get a #1Dman back.  A package of (an unproven) Draisaitl + Nurse +  pick was not enough in his mind because he was moving his #1Dman and had to get a #1Dman back.  Which was, of course, ludicrous.  

[CANADIENS27]

On ‎2‎/‎1‎/‎2018 at 9:42 PM, habs1952 said:

This thread should be titled: Fire the GM before the team implodes.

Along with the owner unless he miraculously redevelops a backbone and can stand up to the French media.  

 

 

[HabsRuleForever]

Ottawa sends Phaneuf & Thompson to L.A. for Gaborik & Shore.

[Windoe]

On 2/9/2018 at 10:06 AM, H_T_L said:

The only thing that makes sense is that they really thought he was a team cancer ( in their minds) and needed to make the move before his new deal kicked in. Trading him out of division was likely a priority and i'm guessing Nashville;s return was likely the best offer  under those self imposed restrictions.  

Two bingos!

[jennifer_rocket]

February 26th is fast approaching. I would assume we'll start seeing some of the more proactive teams make moves soon.

[maas_art]

With Neimi really playing well lately, and Lindgren getting his new 3 year deal, the smart thing to do would be to play Niemi as much as you can before the 26th and see if you find a trade partner.

You wont get much for him but i think there's someone out ther that would nab him for a mid-round pick or a prospect. Sure he was horrible before we claimed him but he's now got a 2-1-1 record with us with a  .929 save percentage and 2.47 goals-against average.  Its a small sample size but the market for goalies right now is very very slim.  

[BigTed3]

There are probably 10 legit sellers right now: Chi, Ari, Edm, and Van in the West, and Mtl, NYR, Buf, Fla, Ott, and Det in the East. So what's our competition in terms of players these other teams will be perhaps dumping:

Goalies: Pavelec, Howard, Chad Johnson, Montoya

D men: McDonagh, Holden, B. Smith, Oduya, Mike Green, Gorges, Beaulieu, Hjalmarsson, Luke Schenn, Connauton, Gudbranson

Top 6 wingers: Nash, Zuccarello, Hoffman, E. Kane

Bottom 6 wingers:Jamie McGinn, Pouliot, Jordan Nolan, Patrick Sharp, Nyquist, Grabner, B. Richardson, Maroon, Letestu, Cammalleri, Vanek

Top 6 Centers: D. Brassard

Bottom 6 Centers: Tom Pyatt

 

Now we can argue about whether some of the 3rd line type wingers could be bumped up in a pinch (like a Vanek or Nyquist or so on), but the fact remains that there is a complete and total paucity of centers on the market, and it's not even clear Ottawa would deal Brassard. There are plenty of depth defencemen, there are a few scoring wingers, but there is nada at center. So look at this and tell me how MB can find any excuse not to deal Tomas Plekanec and hold the buyer hostage for a nice return. At the very least, he's got to get a 2nd rounder back, and as some have suggested, a low first rounder may not be out of the question given the supply and demand. Dealing Benn or Schlemko or Alzner will be difficult, because there are others like them available. But Plekanec's gotta go for a return, and Pacioretty would easily be the best forward available if MB chose to deal him too.

 

 

[BigTed3]

ESPN did a ranking of GM's in the league. Marc Bergevin and Peter Chiarelli were deemed to be the worst two GM's in the NHL, in the category of "disaster." Said ESPN, both these teams have huge problems with their make-up, largely due to bad decisions from their general managers, such as the trades involving Hall and Subban.

Bergevin has built the worst defence in the league, he has managed the cap poorly with tons of unused space, and his development system is also near the bottom tier, with nary a single NHL-ready player left in Laval. The only part of the prospect pool that we look good in is goaltending, with Lindgren, McNiven, Primeau, etc. And even then, MB has gone and over-spent on Carey on a long-term deal with a full no-movement clause, so he's hemmed himself in from ever being able to benefit from having goaltending prospects. Worse than Gauthier, worse than Gainey, worse than Serge Savard, worse than Andre Savard... Bergevin is probably on part with Rejean Houle for being the worst GM of the Habs modern era, and apparently it's not just us the fans who see it.

[maas_art]

1 hour ago, BigTed3 said:

Bergevin has built the worst defence in the league, 

And of course its even worse than that because we could have:

Sergachev - Subban
Mete - Petry

as our top 4.  Bergevin not only "built" the worst defense in the league he managed to dismantle a really good one.   Sure, he acquired Petry but since that point he's barely made any redeeming moves at all (Danault the possible exception) and his only good deals have been "tinkering"

[BigTed3]

Flames re-sign Backlund for 6 years 5.35M per year, so there's one potential off-season center target off the market already.

[Ravadak]

5 hours ago, maas_art said:

And of course its even worse than that because we could have:

Sergachev - Subban
Mete - Petry

as our top 4.  Bergevin not only "built" the worst defense in the league he managed to dismantle a really good one.   Sure, he acquired Petry but since that point he's barely made any redeeming moves at all (Danault the possible exception) and his only good deals have been "tinkering"

With a bottom pairing of Markov and one of Beulieu/Emelin. for another year until Jullsen 

[kinot-2]

38 minutes ago, Ravadak said:

With a bottom pairing of Markov and one of Beulieu/Emelin. for another year until Jullsen 

Unless SL ruins him.