2018-19 Habs Lines

[maas_art]

57 minutes ago, HabsRuleForever said:

#Habs first practice drill is showing:
Tatar - Danault - Gallagher
Lehkonen - Domi - Shaw
Drouin - Weal - Armia
Kotkaniemi - Thompson - Byron
Deslauriers - Peca - Weise/Hudon

Sadly, this is not an april fool's joke.

I get that the kid is maybe worn down. I get that CJ is probably doing this because he thinks its in his best interest.  I  can understand all that and even though I see no evidence in it, I can give the coaches the benefit of the doubt that they are looking out for JK's long term development - but why on earth are we putting him on the wing?   On the 4th line no less.   Its one thing if say, you put him on the wing next to Domi.  You're changing his position but you're promoting him to an offensive role - but instead we are demoting him to the 4th line AND putting him on the wing. 

This is supposed to be our franchise centre moving forward & he is playing the spot that Nic Deslauriers played last game. 

[habby67]

Well if they are going to bring up the rookie the least they could do is put him on the 4th line. He could be an upgrade over others and that youthful exuberance could give us the extra push if they are really serious at getting into the playoffs.

 

[ramcharger440]

41 minutes ago, maas_art said:

Sadly, this is not an april fool's joke.

I get that the kid is maybe worn down. I get that CJ is probably doing this because he thinks its in his best interest.  I  can understand all that and even though I see no evidence in it, I can give the coaches the benefit of the doubt that they are looking out for JK's long term development - but why on earth are we putting him on the wing?   On the 4th line no less.   Its one thing if say, you put him on the wing next to Domi.  You're changing his position but you're promoting him to an offensive role - but instead we are demoting him to the 4th line AND putting him on the wing. 

This is supposed to be our franchise centre moving forward & he is playing the spot that Nic Deslauriers played last game. 

I pretty much agree with this but i am happy he is in the lineup anyways and he can pop right back into his old spot anytime during the game if he looks sharp.

[BigTed3]

2 hours ago, maas_art said:

Sadly, this is not an april fool's joke.

I get that the kid is maybe worn down. I get that CJ is probably doing this because he thinks its in his best interest.  I  can understand all that and even though I see no evidence in it, I can give the coaches the benefit of the doubt that they are looking out for JK's long term development - but why on earth are we putting him on the wing?   On the 4th line no less.   Its one thing if say, you put him on the wing next to Domi.  You're changing his position but you're promoting him to an offensive role - but instead we are demoting him to the 4th line AND putting him on the wing. 

This is supposed to be our franchise centre moving forward & he is playing the spot that Nic Deslauriers played last game. 

Shades of what the team has done to the likes of Eller, Galchenyuk, Hudon, and so on... let other lesser players play ahead of them and when the first sign of a slump comes, you move them off the center position and onto lines playing with guys they're unlikely to have success with. I do think  the Habs like JK better than the rest of those guys and he's still young, but hopefully this isn't a pattern of punishing younger skilled players and taking away both their likelihood of success and their growth as centers.

[maas_art]

20 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

Shades of what the team has done to the likes of Eller, Galchenyuk, Hudon, and so on... let other lesser players play ahead of them and when the first sign of a slump comes, you move them off the center position and onto lines playing with guys they're unlikely to have success with. I do think  the Habs like JK better than the rest of those guys and he's still young, but hopefully this isn't a pattern of punishing younger skilled players and taking away both their likelihood of success and their growth as centers.

My only hope is that Julien and the team just believe JK is too worn down right now.  Rather than keeping him off the ice they move him to wing (where duties are less and the game should be less gruelling) and at least give him PB on his line.  

I feel like JK will be back at centre next training camp & while i dont love the move at least he's in the lineup i guess.   That 4th line could give some other teams' lines some issues too which would be nice for a change. 

[campabee82]

3 hours ago, maas_art said:

My only hope is that Julien and the team just believe JK is too worn down right now.  Rather than keeping him off the ice they move him to wing (where duties are less and the game should be less gruelling) and at least give him PB on his line.  

I feel like JK will be back at centre next training camp & while i dont love the move at least he's in the lineup i guess.   That 4th line could give some other teams' lines some issues too which would be nice for a change. 

Only one problem with that theory if I am any other teams 4th line and I see Byron-Thompson-Kotkaniemi come out who do you think I am targeting every chance I get. This is putting KK at unnecessary risk stupid move IMO

[CaptWelly]

6 hours ago, HabsRuleForever said:

#Habs first practice drill is showing:
Tatar - Danault - Gallagher
Lehkonen - Domi - Shaw
Drouin - Weal - Armia
Kotkaniemi - Thompson - Byron
Deslauriers - Peca - Weise/Hudon

I know everyone's initial reaction, that said it is so easy with this line up to switch Weal and K at any time during the game. Weal has actually looked good in that position and utilizes his speed. Maybe it depends where the draws are at how the game is going. This line up actually does give the coaching staff flexibility to adjust if needed. Thompson has been good on the puck and good defensively , this may give K a chance to be a little more creative and not have to worry about his defensive side as strongly, having Byron with his speed and being strong defensively may help take the load off K also . I actually would still like to see Drouin moved up with Domi. I think it would help Domi with an offensive player to set up and help Drouin. 

[campabee82]

10 minutes ago, CaptWelly said:

I know everyone's initial reaction, that said it is so easy with this line up to switch Weal and K at any time during the game. Weal has actually looked good in that position and utilizes his speed. Maybe it depends where the draws are at how the game is going. This line up actually does give the coaching staff flexibility to adjust if needed. Thompson has been good on the puck and good defensively , this may give K a chance to be a little more creative and not have to worry about his defensive side as strongly, having Byron with his speed and being strong defensively may help take the load off K also . I actually would still like to see Drouin moved up with Domi. I think it would help Domi with an offensive player to set up and help Drouin. 

Again I think it takes about 3 shifts for MB or JM to run down to the bench yelling at CJ WTH are you thinking putting our future star Centre at unnecessary risk you seriously thing JK will have time and space for creativity with 3 guys trying to lay him out every shift. CJ just put the target on JK's back and if someone doesn't step in and make CJ move him off that line he may end up missing the rest of the season and P.O. if we make it because of injury or worse it may cost JK his career. STUPID! STUPID! STUPID! move. Why this was even considered is beyond logic

[habby67]

I look at the lineup and before I hyperventilate about how great Bergevin allegedly performed well this year I simply look at how our drafted players have been developed in the system. I know we have several players in the system with potential and this includes Kotkaniemi with the big team but until some of these players excel I still think Bergevin isn't Jesus Pollock....

[HARBORSPORT]

I wonder if with all this moving KK around and in and out of the line up on game days ,,,,,if he's playing hurt  ?? ...not tired,.. and typical of this team...all of THAT is top secret 

just something to ponder

[CaptWelly]

4 hours ago, campabee82 said:

Again I think it takes about 3 shifts for MB or JM to run down to the bench yelling at CJ WTH are you thinking putting our future star Centre at unnecessary risk you seriously thing JK will have time and space for creativity with 3 guys trying to lay him out every shift. CJ just put the target on JK's back and if someone doesn't step in and make CJ move him off that line he may end up missing the rest of the season and P.O. if we make it because of injury or worse it may cost JK his career. STUPID! STUPID! STUPID! move. Why this was even considered is beyond logic

I don't get this? Why are teams all of a sudden trying to go out and get KK? Being on the '4th' line doesn't mean the same it used to years ago where each teams 4th line goes out and beats everybody up. Tampa definitely isn't that style of team, maybe Washington a little more Toronto no. So he went from 3rd line to 4th and now at this point on the season he's about to get killed out there? Thompson has played well and Byron has speed , he may get some really favorable match ups and be able to take advantage of them. Most of the season he's played with Lek and Byron or so not really protectors anyway and Drouin sure isn't. Patrick Kane is a winger and doesn't get lay'd out every shift it isn't the old NHL anymore. I think he'll be fine physically it may be more of an adjustment at most to the position and players he's with.

[ramcharger440]

7 hours ago, CaptWelly said:

I don't get this? Why are teams all of a sudden trying to go out and get KK? Being on the '4th' line doesn't mean the same it used to years ago where each teams 4th line goes out and beats everybody up. Tampa definitely isn't that style of team, maybe Washington a little more Toronto no. So he went from 3rd line to 4th and now at this point on the season he's about to get killed out there? Thompson has played well and Byron has speed , he may get some really favorable match ups and be able to take advantage of them. Most of the season he's played with Lek and Byron or so not really protectors anyway and Drouin sure isn't. Patrick Kane is a winger and doesn't get lay'd out every shift it isn't the old NHL anymore. I think he'll be fine physically it may be more of an adjustment at most to the position and players he's with.

Yeah folks are losing it a bit for sure! if this happened mid season sure i would be concerned but he has tailed off in the past month or so and this is not going to kill his development or confidence at all. and who is to say he won't get promoted after a shift or two anyways.

[campabee82]

7 hours ago, CaptWelly said:

I don't get this? Why are teams all of a sudden trying to go out and get KK? Being on the '4th' line doesn't mean the same it used to years ago where each teams 4th line goes out and beats everybody up. Tampa definitely isn't that style of team, maybe Washington a little more Toronto no. So he went from 3rd line to 4th and now at this point on the season he's about to get killed out there? Thompson has played well and Byron has speed , he may get some really favorable match ups and be able to take advantage of them. Most of the season he's played with Lek and Byron or so not really protectors anyway and Drouin sure isn't. Patrick Kane is a winger and doesn't get lay'd out every shift it isn't the old NHL anymore. I think he'll be fine physically it may be more of an adjustment at most to the position and players he's with.

Just my opinion, I know if I was a coach for ANY other team in the league and saw that matchup I would certainly tell my guys to focus on JK cause HE is the one that will burn you if you give him space. He may match up better skillwise but P.O. bound teams get through by reducing the amount of space on the ice every shift now days or in the past it's just the format for post season success.

[campabee82]

4 hours ago, campabee82 said:

Just my opinion, I know if I was a coach for ANY other team in the league and saw that matchup I would certainly tell my guys to focus on JK cause HE is the one that will burn you if you give him space. He may match up better skillwise but P.O. bound teams get through by reducing the amount of space on the ice every shift now days or in the past it's just the format for post season success.

Adding to this is the fact that Armia could be moved back to the 4th line just as easily and JK certainly plays a more rounded game than Armia.

[CaptWelly]

6 hours ago, campabee82 said:

Just my opinion, I know if I was a coach for ANY other team in the league and saw that matchup I would certainly tell my guys to focus on JK cause HE is the one that will burn you if you give him space. He may match up better skillwise but P.O. bound teams get through by reducing the amount of space on the ice every shift now days or in the past it's just the format for post season success.

I would say if I was any other teams coach I would focus on Domi he's small and Lek or Shaw isn't going to be what makes that line go, also unfortunately you can get under his skin and take Domi off his game. JK if he's going to be effective is actually going to have to add some bite to his game it is one thing he is missing. Also if it's the case about PO style hockey , do we sit him the rest of the way and in the playoffs if we make it because we're worried about him getting hurt when the games get tough? 

 

[campabee82]

2 hours ago, CaptWelly said:

I would say if I was any other teams coach I would focus on Domi he's small and Lek or Shaw isn't going to be what makes that line go, also unfortunately you can get under his skin and take Domi off his game. JK if he's going to be effective is actually going to have to add some bite to his game it is one thing he is missing. Also if it's the case about PO style hockey , do we sit him the rest of the way and in the playoffs if we make it because we're worried about him getting hurt when the games get tough? 

 

I see your point and my point was exactly what your first line was on the 4th line JK will get all of the other teams focus cause neither Thompson or Byron are going to drive that lines success. Also it's not really the style of hockey as I would like to see JK use his size more, it's more of the relentlessness that the 4th line of other teams are likely to be with him on that line. I hope I am wrong it's just my opinion that it is senseless to put him in that situation in the first place

[CaptWelly]

38 minutes ago, campabee82 said:

I see your point and my point was exactly what your first line was on the 4th line JK will get all of the other teams focus cause neither Thompson or Byron are going to drive that lines success. Also it's not really the style of hockey as I would like to see JK use his size more, it's more of the relentlessness that the 4th line of other teams are likely to be with him on that line. I hope I am wrong it's just my opinion that it is senseless to put him in that situation in the first place

I know everyone wants JK to stay healthy. A couple of things we have going for us tonight is that with home ice we should get the better match ups, also CG doesn't just use his 4th line against the other teams 4th line head to head. If he can he likes to roll 4 lines. Byron and Thompson are both good defensively so I think as long as the game isn't getting out of hand this line could get several different looks through out the game. Not having to play center and having Thompson and Byron on the line hopefully JK can relax and just play to his instincts. He's still a kid so a little diversity really should be a good learning experience. I at least am glad he's with Thompson and Byron two good veterans then Delo and say Weise or something. All in all it's actually nice to see a line up with enough depth that you can move people around some if needed. 

[ramcharger440]

16 minutes ago, CaptWelly said:

I know everyone wants JK to stay healthy. A couple of things we have going for us tonight is that with home ice we should get the better match ups, also CG doesn't just use his 4th line against the other teams 4th line head to head. If he can he likes to roll 4 lines. Byron and Thompson are both good defensively so I think as long as the game isn't getting out of hand this line could get several different looks through out the game. Not having to play center and having Thompson and Byron on the line hopefully JK can relax and just play to his instincts. He's still a kid so a little diversity really should be a good learning experience. I at least am glad he's with Thompson and Byron two good veterans then Delo and say Weise or something. All in all it's actually nice to see a line up with enough depth that you can move people around some if needed. 

I think this line could surprise a bit.

[maas_art]

27 minutes ago, CaptWelly said:

I know everyone wants JK to stay healthy. A couple of things we have going for us tonight is that with home ice we should get the better match ups, also CG doesn't just use his 4th line against the other teams 4th line head to head. If he can he likes to roll 4 lines. Byron and Thompson are both good defensively so I think as long as the game isn't getting out of hand this line could get several different looks through out the game. Not having to play center and having Thompson and Byron on the line hopefully JK can relax and just play to his instincts. He's still a kid so a little diversity really should be a good learning experience. I at least am glad he's with Thompson and Byron two good veterans then Delo and say Weise or something. All in all it's actually nice to see a line up with enough depth that you can move people around some if needed. 

Yeah the more I think about it, the more im ok with it as long as this is not a long -term thing. I fully expect JK to be back at C next season.  Assuming that is true, this line could be interesting. 

[kinot-2]

6 minutes ago, maas_art said:

Yeah the more I think about it, the more im ok with it as long as this is not a long -term thing. I fully expect JK to be back at C next season.  Assuming that is true, this line could be interesting. 

TSN mentioned that many other prominent centers spent time on the wing including Stamkos. 

[maas_art]

5 minutes ago, kinot-2 said:

TSN mentioned that many other prominent centers spent time on the wing including Stamkos. 

oh totally.  Damphousse was one of the best 2 way centres of his generation but spent a lot of time at LW too.  

[HabsAlways]

I think the concern is the pattern that the Habs have of taking a C (Eller, Galchenyuk) ... giving them barely any time to develop at the position, throwing them on Wing ... and when that doesn't instantly work out, moving them down the lineup with less and less skilled players and spouting off how "they have to earn it" or whatever.

[BigTed3]

57 minutes ago, kinot-2 said:

TSN mentioned that many other prominent centers spent time on the wing including Stamkos. 

 

50 minutes ago, maas_art said:

oh totally.  Damphousse was one of the best 2 way centres of his generation but spent a lot of time at LW too.  

Yes but big difference between how Stamkos and Damphousse were handled and how the Habs under Bergevin have dealt with this. It's one thing to move a guy like Galchenyuk or Eller to wing if you were loaded there. But there were plenty of games where those guys were moved over despite playing well down the middle in favor of using lesser players like Desharnais, McCarron, Mitchell, DLR, etc. on the 2nd and 3rd lines. That's just nonsensical. It wasn't making a move to benefit the team, it was making a move because you disliked certain players and because you favored grinders. Desharnais went something like 30 games without a goal and stayed on the 1st line and the 1st PP unit. Drouin stayed there all of last season despite not really being much better than Chucky in that role. So right now, I'd like to believe that they view JK differently but I don't give MB/MT/CJ the benefit of the doubt on this. They've been more than fine with relegating youngsters with skill to lesser roles. It's on the Habs to prove to the fans they won't do that with Kotkaniemi.

[caperns61]

11 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

 

Yes but big difference between how Stamkos and Damphousse were handled and how the Habs under Bergevin have dealt with this. It's one thing to move a guy like Galchenyuk or Eller to wing if you were loaded there. But there were plenty of games where those guys were moved over despite playing well down the middle in favor of using lesser players like Desharnais, McCarron, Mitchell, DLR, etc. on the 2nd and 3rd lines. That's just nonsensical. It wasn't making a move to benefit the team, it was making a move because you disliked certain players and because you favored grinders. Desharnais went something like 30 games without a goal and stayed on the 1st line and the 1st PP unit. Drouin stayed there all of last season despite not really being much better than Chucky in that role. So right now, I'd like to believe that they view JK differently but I don't give MB/MT/CJ the benefit of the doubt on this. They've been more than fine with relegating youngsters with skill to lesser roles. It's on the Habs to prove to the fans they won't do that with Kotkaniemi.

Claude Julien did this to Tyler Seguin as well and it wasnt until he got out of his grasp that he got put back to where he belonged...

Not all centres are Patrice Bergeron. 

They kept KK and they new they would have to live with the good and the bad.. I think its a really bad decision to sit him and even worse to play him on the fourth line wing...

IF anything give him gallagher and tatar for a 1 or 2 or 3 periods...you playd him center all season why move him to theth line wing with 3 games left.

[ramcharger440]

things worked out pretty good.