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The Buffalo Sabres have traded centre Ryan O’Reilly to the St. Louis Blues.

Prospect Tage Thompson, and forwards Patrik Berglund and Vladimir Sobotka, a 2019 first-round and 2021 second-round pick is the return for O’Reilly.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/sabres-trade-ryan-oreilly-blues/

Quite a haul for the Sabres... yeesch!!!

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5 hours ago, jeff33 said:

off season summary:

1.bungle the pacioretty trade so badly we probably wont get anything for him now,  god forbid this leads to us resigning him, I could actually see that happening now

2. sign plekanec for 2.25 o_0 and for all of you saying its fine if hes on the 4th line bla bla  go look in the mirror and tell yourself that you know hes not gonna be playing 17 minutes a night under Julien and tell me if you believe it

we are seriously so pathetic right now im in physical pain, like I need to lie down for a bit

Yeah. And why would it be okay to pay Pleky so much as a forth liner but not another player/s?

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4 minutes ago, Habs_Hockey_Nutz said:

The Buffalo Sabres have traded centre Ryan O’Reilly to the St. Louis Blues.

Prospect Tage Thompson, and forwards Patrik Berglund and Vladimir Sobotka, a 2019 first-round and 2021 second-round pick is the return for O’Reilly.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/sabres-trade-ryan-oreilly-blues/

Quite a haul for the Sabres... yeesch!!!

Yeah, big return for Buffalo. Much more back than they gave up for a younger ROR a few years ago. I'm surprised. Good thing we didn't give that up.

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4 hours ago, Graeme-1 said:

And in 2017 similar players (replace Drouin with Radulov) they won the division. Or just look at Colorado this year.

 I'm not saying Montreal will make the playoffs this year, I think it's more likely they don't. But anyone thinking it's impossible or even extremely unlikely hasn't been paying attention to the league lately. A healthy Weber and Price alone could be enough to push them over the edge.

I'm gonna laugh and assume you're joking. You are joking, right? Right?

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2 hours ago, MALMACIAN_CRUNCH said:

I'm pretty sure I'm the only one on here tooting this guys name, but has Thorton resigned with the Sharks yet?

He's 40 yrs old

Do you really think he would come to the Habs on a 1 or 2 yr contract when he could try and resign with the Sharks or better yet retire . Why come to a team that has a slim chance of making the PO's after living in sunny SJ for 13 yrs

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MB says the asking price from Buffalo (for ROR to stay in the division) was three 1st round picks. What a joke. No way we make that deal. I wouldn't even have given up one 1st round pick for a 2nd line center past prime. Bad trade for Stl. They're not that close to give up futures like that.

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2 hours ago, kinot-2 said:

Pretty sure he's the best of the lot. A big center, can still contribute, a year, maybe 2, why not? We certainly won't make the POs with what we have. 

 

Trying to make the playoffs with this hodgepodge of players would be the stupidest thing the Habs could do.

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7 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

MB says the asking price from Buffalo (for ROR to stay in the division) was three 1st round picks. What a joke. No way we make that deal. I wouldn't even have given up one 1st round pick for a 2nd line center past prime. Bad trade for Stl. They're not that close to give up futures like that.

And they're on the hook for that signing bonus too. 

Can we please squeeze out something close to that for Max please.

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8 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

MB says the asking price from Buffalo (for ROR to stay in the division) was three 1st round picks. What a joke. No way we make that deal. I wouldn't even have given up one 1st round pick for a 2nd line center past prime. Bad trade for Stl. They're not that close to give up futures like that.

Yikes.  Sure am glad we didnt go after him if that was the asking price.  

 

ROR

For
- 1st in 19
- 2nd in 21
- Tage Thompson
- Vladimir Sobotka
- Patrick Berglund
No salary retained. STL pays ROR signing bonus.

Thats insane. 

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51 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

2. The D market is dry. Try finding big names available, other than Karlsson (who is attached to Ryan and not signed past this season). Doughty is off the market. As is OEL. Carlson too. And even Mike Green. The Leafs have desperately been looking for a right-handed D man who can quarterback a PP and play alongside Rielly. Not too many names that fit that bill. Supply and demand says if we make Weber available now, at a time when there's little competition, we can get a huge haul. Toronto doesn't have to be the only suitor. I think Edmonton will bid. Maybe Philly again. Maybe Minnesota. Maybe Buffalo. Maybe the Isles.

 

How about this: Mathews to Ottawa for Karlsson- + -+.? Would it be doable?

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18 minutes ago, habs1952 said:

I'm gonna laugh and assume you're joking. You are joking, right? Right?

With the level of parity in the NHL it doesn't take a whole lot to make a difference between a bottom-feeder and a bubble-team. Losing our best dman and having our best player be a shadow of his former-self on a team without a lot of depth cost us who knows how many points. Granted, we missed the playoffs by 26 points, so that's a lot of ground to make up. I suppose I probably should have added Pacioretty to that list though. With those 3 playing the way we know they can and healthy, I think we're still a bubble-team.

Even just on paper, compared to two years ago when we didn't just make the playoffs but won the division, what was really different? Guys were older, but really only Plekanec had reached the point of significantly slowing down. Radulov was replaced with Drouin, we lost Markov, and some mostly neutral tinkering. No doubt the loss of Markov & Radulov (sort-of, we added Drouin) hurt, but I don't think alone it explains the drop. We are definately a worse team than the one that won the division, but I also don't think in a year with neutral-luck the team is quite as bad as last season.

I expect us to finish somewhere around 20th-25th, but with a little good luck could be higher (maybe even playoffs), with a little bad luck could be lower. What we do with Pacioretty may help determine this.

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5 minutes ago, Graeme-1 said:

Losing our best dman and having our best player be a shadow of his former-self on a team without a lot of depth cost us who knows how many points. Granted, we missed the playoffs by 26 points, so that's a lot of ground to make up. I suppose I probably should have added Pacioretty to that list though. With those 3 playing the way we know they can and healthy, I think we're still a bubble-team

Totally. if price had even played moderately good hockey - like .915 or above - i think someone showed we would have been well within the wildcard race. 

Im not saying thats a good thing - i actually want us to dump some more vets and try to get another top 5 pick - but to suggest we couldnt possibly be a bubble team is sort of silly. 

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1 hour ago, BigTed3 said:

On the Plekanec trade: meh. We don't need him, I think it sets other players' development back (e.g. maybe Jake Evans doesn't make the squad because of this), and we overpaid for him when you compare his deal to other 35+ veterans. His bonuses are relatively easy to meet, so he'll make over 3M by the time this is done. Bad move, albeit the season is a write-off to begin with.

On Weber: I think the JT signing with Toronto is the best landing spot for us possible, in terms of now being able to pitch the Weber for Nylander plus deal, as well as maybe pushing San Jose to up their bid for Pacioretty. On Weber, the reasons I think he'll fetch more than just Nylander:

1. Weber is still widely thought of around the league as a top 10 defenceman. Look at the NHL players survey and how many players love him as a teammate. Babcock also loves him and I think would urge Dubas to overpay for him.

2. The D market is dry. Try finding big names available, other than Karlsson (who is attached to Ryan and not signed past this season). Doughty is off the market. As is OEL. Carlson too. And even Mike Green. The Leafs have desperately been looking for a right-handed D man who can quarterback a PP and play alongside Rielly. Not too many names that fit that bill. Supply and demand says if we make Weber available now, at a time when there's little competition, we can get a huge haul. Toronto doesn't have to be the only suitor. I think Edmonton will bid. Maybe Philly again. Maybe Minnesota. Maybe Buffalo. Maybe the Isles.

3. The Tavares signing, I think, really ups the ante for the Leafs to win now. Matthews and Marner and Kapanen and Carrick are all due raises next season. Big ones in the case of the first two. Gardiner is a UFA after next year. They'll get Marleau and Horton and Martin off the books in two years, but as it stands, they'll want to push to win in 2019. I've said this before, but if you're that close to contending, you pay extra to give you the last piece or two to push you to the top. You don't half-ass it. That's your window, you go all in, and the windows in the NHL these days are short because you just can't keep a team together in a cap era.

4. Nylander is already an RFA. Would be tough to pay him 4.5-5M now and then have to sort out the rest without addressing your D.

So I think if the Habs came along with a Weber for Nylander and a 1st and a prospect, they might not like it, but the alternative is getting a 2nd-tier guy. Those pieces don't mean much down the line if you blow your window now. I think we hold the power in this one. We're not forced to deal, but we can benefit from it.

I agree with all the reasoning, but to what extent is it counter-balanced by the fact he's going to be 33 this summer and could become a cap headache (basically takes 7.8 million of cap space until he decides it's time to retire)? Toronto could be especially worried about that cap hit since it could mean losing a good player in a few years.

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33 minutes ago, maas_art said:

Yikes.  Sure am glad we didnt go after him if that was the asking price.  

 

ROR

For
- 1st in 19
- 2nd in 21
- Tage Thompson
- Vladimir Sobotka
- Patrick Berglund
No salary retained. STL pays ROR signing bonus.

Thats insane. 

I think O'Reilly is a bit overrated, but that return doesn't seem that crazy. Neither roster player is a big difference maker and replaceable, so I see this as mostly a 1st (which is apparently top-ten protected, reducing the value significantly) , a second, and a decent prospect. That's a bit high, but not that much more than what a player like O'Reilly would probably fetch at the deadline as a rental.

Glad we didn't touch that, but if we were in a different situation I could see it. Granted, St. Louis also seems to be in kind of a weird spot to be making that deal.

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24 minutes ago, Graeme-1 said:

With the level of parity in the NHL it doesn't take a whole lot to make a difference between a bottom-feeder and a bubble-team. Losing our best dman and having our best player be a shadow of his former-self on a team without a lot of depth cost us who knows how many points. Granted, we missed the playoffs by 26 points, so that's a lot of ground to make up. I suppose I probably should have added Pacioretty to that list though. With those 3 playing the way we know they can and healthy, I think we're still a bubble-team.

Even just on paper, compared to two years ago when we didn't just make the playoffs but won the division, what was really different? Guys were older, but really only Plekanec had reached the point of significantly slowing down. Radulov was replaced with Drouin, we lost Markov, and some mostly neutral tinkering. No doubt the loss of Markov & Radulov (sort-of, we added Drouin) hurt, but I don't think alone it explains the drop. We are definately a worse team than the one that won the division, but I also don't think in a year with neutral-luck the team is quite as bad as last season.

I expect us to finish somewhere around 20th-25th, but with a little good luck could be higher (maybe even playoffs), with a little bad luck could be lower. What we do with Pacioretty may help determine this.

This is 100% right in my opinion. we will suck but we are not that far away from sucking only a little.

 

Lol!

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1 hour ago, Graeme-1 said:

I think O'Reilly is a bit overrated, but that return doesn't seem that crazy. Neither roster player is a big difference maker and replaceable, so I see this as mostly a 1st (which is apparently top-ten protected, reducing the value significantly) , a second, and a decent prospect. That's a bit high, but not that much more than what a player like O'Reilly would probably fetch at the deadline as a rental.

Glad we didn't touch that, but if we were in a different situation I could see it. Granted, St. Louis also seems to be in kind of a weird spot to be making that deal.

Well but Buffalo said that if they traded within the division they would have wanted even more. 

But using the actual trade in terms of players in our system, the equivalent would have been:
- 1st rounder (lottery protected, sure but that usually only means for 1 year)
- 2nd rounder
- Scherbak
- Byron & Plekanec (we dont really have anyone quite comparable to Bergland or Sobotka but these 2 would be close). 

So definitely the 2 vets arent "a lot" but they are still serviceable bottom 6 guys.  Throw in a fairly decent prospect and 2 high picks... thats a lot to pay for a (albeit very good) second line centre. 
 

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47 minutes ago, maas_art said:

Well but Buffalo said that if they traded within the division they would have wanted even more. 

But using the actual trade in terms of players in our system, the equivalent would have been:
- 1st rounder (lottery protected, sure but that usually only means for 1 year)
- 2nd rounder
- Scherbak
- Byron & Plekanec (we dont really have anyone quite comparable to Bergland or Sobotka but these 2 would be close). 

So definitely the 2 vets arent "a lot" but they are still serviceable bottom 6 guys.  Throw in a fairly decent prospect and 2 high picks... thats a lot to pay for a (albeit very good) second line centre. 
 

Is ROR really a second line center? I would have paid MORE than what was paid for him IF we were trying to win now (of course in the the classic bergevin we are neither selling or buying)

ROR is a #1 C he may not be elite, but can you name 20 centers better than him? I don't think you can. He's a special player

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/definitive-ranking-nhls-top-23-centres-three-seasons/

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1 hour ago, maas_art said:

Well but Buffalo said that if they traded within the division they would have wanted even more. 

But using the actual trade in terms of players in our system, the equivalent would have been:
- 1st rounder (lottery protected, sure but that usually only means for 1 year)
- 2nd rounder
- Scherbak
- Byron & Plekanec (we dont really have anyone quite comparable to Bergland or Sobotka but these 2 would be close). 

So definitely the 2 vets arent "a lot" but they are still serviceable bottom 6 guys.  Throw in a fairly decent prospect and 2 high picks... thats a lot to pay for a (albeit very good) second line centre. 
 

I don't know the details of the lottery protection, but often those deals seem to drop to a 2nd rounder after a couple years (obviously they can all be different, the Duchene return only allowed protectiotn for one year).

Assuming strong lottery protection and we expected to be at least a middle of the road team (so that 2nd is hopefully not high one), in the right situation I wouldn't mind that trade. Prior to getting Kyle Turris, I'd think something like that would have made a lot of sense for a team like Nashville who really did need a 1B/2A center.

But totally glad we didn't make that deal (or worse) given where we are and the other holes. It just doesn't seem that out of line for a "futures for help now" type of trade.

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54 minutes ago, habsisme said:

Is ROR really a second line center? I would have paid MORE than what was paid for him IF we were trying to win now (of course in the the classic bergevin we are neither selling or buying)

ROR is a #1 C he may not be elite, but can you name 20 centers better than him? I don't think you can. He's a special player

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/definitive-ranking-nhls-top-23-centres-three-seasons/

Might be one of those cases where he's a #1 C in the sense of "one of the best 31 centers in the league" but on a cup-contending team he's going to be a drag in that role (so either you need to be really strong elsewhere to make up for it, or ideally make him the #2).

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