Poll: What to do with Pacioretty?

[BigTed3]

Marc Bergevin has run himself into a corner with no clear way out. Based on the return for Jeff Skinner, the market isn't a sellers' one right now, but on the other hand, re-signing Max will take big term and money. If the three options listed here are your only ones, which would you choose as GM?

[Manatee-X]

I hate the other two options so much, I don't think we've got much choice in that situation but to re-sign him.  Even if your plan is to continue to shop him (and I do think there will come a day when a Pacioretty-like player signed to that contract will be in more demand) I don't want to give him away for 2nd rounders or (potentially, if nobody bites at the deadline) for nothing.

And who knows, in theory we could still ice a competitive team before he's in his twilight years.

[maas_art]

I personally think its not quite as bleak as indicated but if those were my only options Id for sure resign him and make sure he doesnt have a full NMC/NTC  and then quietly continue shopping him.   Of course MB is too heavy-handed for that and thats why we're in this mess.

 

With regards to the return, i think the problem is that people are looking at the Skinner deal as the FMV trade but remember: buffalo was not the ideal trading partner for Skinner.  A team that was challenging for the cup and was one Jeff Skinner or one Max Pacioretty away from a cup will pay more.    I assume that Carolina  didnt want to wait (most GMs are on holidays right now) and just took what they could get.   This would be foolish for us to do.   

 

I can still see getting a decent return on Pacioretty and if we deal with an organization that actually wants him long-term then the return could be substantial.  I have no idea if he would resign in say, Edmonton, but i think there's a possible deal there to be had.   Nurse + 1st + Prospect     Pacioretty would be money next to McDavid.  

 

That said, pretty sure MB will mess it up.

[H_T_L]

At this point it certainly looks like Max's value is down the tubes. I suppose I would go with try to trade him at the deadline option. Best case scenario is that he puts in a good rebound year points wise and we score something decent for him beyond what Skinner went for this summer. Worst case is that he has another mediocre or poor year and his value plummets further.  If last year was an indication of a trend towards declining production, then a long term deal at the kind of money being tossed around could be another tough pill to swallow.  I think the Captain issue could work either way if he's stripped of the title. He either sulks and just rides out the year or takes it to heart and does his utmost to prove management blew it again. and leads the team in goals once again.

[habs1952]

#1 Trade him now before MB can sign him to an NTC.

[Habs_Hockey_Nutz]

I look at it this way... if Pacioretty was a UFA right now I believe a team out there would pay him what he is potentially asking for. And if the Habs were not in rebuild mode, as they are for the next few years, he would be extended. So I say play him under his current contract... but continue to look for a trading partner as the Avalanche did with Dufresne. Once training camps are done and players have been wavered a decent deal still could be found IMO. What's the rush?

[jennifer_rocket]

15 hours ago, habs1952 said:

#1 Trade him now before MB can sign him to an NTC.

You would have to wonder about the circumstances that would lead to Max resigning here... I mean, would MB have to be fired for Max to resign? I have no information, but you would have to think Max probably feels pretty disrespected by management.

I do feel that if MB tried to negotiate now, Max would immediately ask for a full NMC.

[jwlk]

6 hours ago, Habs_Hockey_Nutz said:

I look at it this way... if Pacioretty was a UFA right now I believe a team out there would pay him what he is potentially asking for. And if the Habs were not in rebuild mode, as they are for the next few years, he would be extended. So I say play him under his current contract... but continue to look for a trading partner as the Avalanche did with Dufresne. Once training camps are done and players have been wavered a decent deal still could be found IMO. What's the rush?

Habs are not in rebuild mode. MB is still trying to build a good team. He's just a bad GM. But I'd resign him. Who else is going to score goals on this team 

[Habs=stanleycup]

2 hours ago, jwlk said:

Habs are not in rebuild mode. MB is still trying to build a good team. He's just a bad GM. But I'd resign him. Who else is going to score goals on this team 

Goals scoring wise, who cares at this stage? As a Habs fan, to me, the Stanley Cup is the ONLY goal that matters, and there's NO WAY on God's green earth, with this current team and its incompetent Management that we will EVER see the Cup again. Might as well tank and grab the best picks. Hopefully Bergevin will be gone by then, along with his gullible puppet Molson.

[Habs=stanleycup]

I picked let him play out his current contract and trade him at the deadline.

[Habs_Hockey_Nutz]

4 hours ago, jwlk said:

Habs are not in rebuild mode. MB is still trying to build a good team. He's just a bad GM. But I'd resign him. Who else is going to score goals on this team 

Could have fooled me... IMO they are

[BigTed3]

I think trading him for anything that doesn't include a 1st rounder or an A level prospect just isn't worth it, so to me, the trade is off the table if all we can get is a Skinner-like return.

I'm not completely against signing Pacioretty to 7 x 7.5M but it's a year or two longer than I'd like, and I think a contract that runs past age 35 makes it a bit harder to trade him down the line. I think that kind of a signing would make it imperative to trade Price and/or Weber.

I think we're in a rebuild/retool mode, so what it comes down to is what situation puts you in the best position to get a good return. Personally, I'm banking on Pacioretty rebounding somewhat from last season. So if he can put together a season where he's on 30-goal pace by the trade deadline or if he's on a hot streak at that time, I think his trade value will be higher than it is now and higher than it will be if he's signed to a 7-year deal. It's a gamble. If he gets hurt, you're finished. If he plays poorly, you get a bad return, but I'm not convinced it'll be that much worse than what it is now. And you still technically have the option of re-signing him if you don't get what you want at the deadline. I think Max in his heart still wants to be here but maybe doesn't want to play for Bergevin. But if we play poorly and he has no value, then guess what... there's even more reason to fire Julien and Bergevin and bring in a combo that'll entice Max to stay.

Basically, I think if you can't get the deal you want now and Max isn't willing to sign for 5-6 years or less, then waiting this out until later in the year gives you the most flexibility to win in the long run. You look at what Kane and Nash and Hanzal and so on garnered in trades later in the year when teams were more desperate to acquire pieces to put them over the top and I think it makes sense to play this out and not sell low on an asset (as Bergevin has been ineptly prone to do).

[Regis22]

6 hours ago, jwlk said:

 But I'd resign him. Who else is going to score goals on this team 

MP didn't score many goals last year , so at least we know what to expect in 2018 -2019 .

Take away AG's goals and you have a really crap team

[kinot-2]

1 hour ago, Regis22 said:

MP didn't score many goals last year , so at least we know what to expect in 2018 -2019 .

Take away AG's goals and you have a really crap team

Oh, but we have Max Domi to replace him, he's good at scoring MT netters.  

We were the 3rd lowest scoring team last year, will we be the lowest scoring team this year? 

#jackhughes

[tony5775]

Keeping him here creates one big problem Because no way can they leave that C on his sweater. Never had a problem with his game myself, but this is one big mess. If we can get a first round pick, let him go. If not then lets see what he does.

I would like to see if him and Domi click on the same line. Have a feeling they would. 

 

[BigTed3]

59 minutes ago, tony5775 said:

Keeping him here creates one big problem Because no way can they leave that C on his sweater. Never had a problem with his game myself, but this is one big mess. If we can get a first round pick, let him go. If not then lets see what he does.

I would like to see if him and Domi click on the same line. Have a feeling they would. 

 

I would never have given him the C in the first place. IMO it should have been Eller or Subban back then, and my preference now would be Danault.

However, I don't think you can strip the C off his sweater while he's playing here. I don't think he's the best captain, but he's a good hockey player and we need him to be successful to win. We can't have turmoil in the locker room over who the captain is. I think whether you re-sign him or are just keeping him for part of this year, you still need to be actively looking to trade him IF the return is right. If the return isn't right, you can't just let a 30-goal scorer walk for nothing and if he's staying, I think he's the captain.

[truehabs]

There is a report that Patches has put his mansion up for sale, so the prospect of resigning him is non existent 

[jennifer_rocket]

1 hour ago, truehabs said:

There is a report that Patches has put his mansion up for sale, so the prospect of resigning him is non existent 

That mansion is in Florida.

[jeff33]

So here's what I think our data is.

1. patch is done here. MB does not want him , and I have to believe that at this point the last thing head office wants is max still here when the season starts. So I do think its highly likely we see a trade, I'm sure the plan is 100% that he is not here to start the season.

2. I think since hes been on the market, we can say that the rest of the league is kind of reflecting what I have been saying.....this guy is not a real star player, and they are not going to pay a star player price for him in a trade.  Based on this, I think re-signing him has some logical and hypothetical benefits, but here's a thought:  if no one wants to pay an 8 m player price for him, does anyone else want him with term at 8 per?  does it really make him more tradeable? I actually think it doesnt. I think thats gonna be yet another albatross. 

3. based off those 2 things, I say we take what we can get now....which is what we should have done 2 years ago when that was actually something significant, or last year, or at the deadline, ugh you suck so much MB, and just live with it.  oh sorry, and you immediately fire MB. he had one job to do this offseason and he blew it royally. just get out of here.

trade him for pu 

 

 

 

[habs1952]

4 hours ago, jeff33 said:

So here's what I think our data is.

1. patch is done here. MB does not want him , and I have to believe that at this point the last thing head office wants is max still here when the season starts. So I do think its highly likely we see a trade, I'm sure the plan is 100% that he is not here to start the season.

2. I think since hes been on the market, we can say that the rest of the league is kind of reflecting what I have been saying.....this guy is not a real star player, and they are not going to pay a star player price for him in a trade.  Based on this, I think re-signing him has some logical and hypothetical benefits, but here's a thought:  if no one wants to pay an 8 m player price for him, does anyone else want him with term at 8 per?  does it really make him more tradeable? I actually think it doesnt. I think thats gonna be yet another albatross. 

3. based off those 2 things, I say we take what we can get now....which is what we should have done 2 years ago when that was actually something significant, or last year, or at the deadline, ugh you suck so much MB, and just live with it.  oh sorry, and you immediately fire MB. he had one job to do this offseason and he blew it royally. just get out of here.

trade him for pu 

 

 

 

Yup...we gotta get rid of Max to reduce our chances of finishing 30th thereby cutting our odds for the 1st overall draft pick next year.

[CANADIENS27]

Given this team is once again in rebuilding mode, you might as well trade Pacioretty for the draft choices mentioned above.  

 

 

[jwlk]

unless otherwise corrected by the Habs GM, we should not be saying rebuild, we are not in a rebuild, you are just giving excuses to a poor GM and his poor performance, MB tried to sign high profile players to the team, but no one was interested, he got younger by force not by his own design, so please can we knock off the rebuild thing unless otherwise notified by habs management

[Habs_Hockey_Nutz]

20 hours ago, jwlk said:

unless otherwise corrected by the Habs GM, we should not be saying rebuild, we are not in a rebuild, you are just giving excuses to a poor GM and his poor performance, MB tried to sign high profile players to the team, but no one was interested, he got younger by force not by his own design, so please can we knock off the rebuild thing unless otherwise notified by habs management

You are entitled to your own opinion as are others. Whether by design or otherwise, some can look at the current situation as a rebuild IMHO. Management's transparency or lack thereof need not be the only determining factor. Facts are what they are including the draft, changes in players and coaches either at the AHL or NHL level and talk of further change as may be the case with Pacioretty. My two cents

[habs1952]

22 hours ago, jwlk said:

unless otherwise corrected by the Habs GM, we should not be saying rebuild, we are not in a rebuild, you are just giving excuses to a poor GM and his poor performance, MB tried to sign high profile players to the team, but no one was interested, he got younger by force not by his own design, so please can we knock off the rebuild thing unless otherwise notified by habs management

Why should I believe what management tells me? Management has been telling me a lot of things over the past few years and yet the team gets worse every year. It's profit over product for the Habs and it's pretty much been that way since 1993.

[jwlk]

just don't like giving excuses for the poor team, this team by managements own mouth is what they put together to compete, saying there rebuilding gives them an out when this team crashes again.