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Money or the cup?


kinot-2
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Which is more important to you? Let's assume that you are a 2nd line player and your contract is expiring (Max), 

To me, I would sign with any team that wanted me, and could offer me the highest money and long term that they could.. NHL players have a very short shelf life. The odds of winning the cup are  slim., but money goes on. 

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5 hours ago, kinot-2 said:

Which is more important to you? Let's assume that you are a 2nd line player and your contract is expiring (Max), 

To me, I would sign with any team that wanted me, and could offer me the highest money and long term that they could.. NHL players have a very short shelf life. The odds of winning the cup are  slim., but money goes on. 

It's hard to win the Cup. 31 teams are trying (29 if you exclude Ottawa and Montreal). I think most players try to find a balance between boosting their income and signing with a team that has a reasonable chance of challenging for a Cup. That may mean immediately competing or competing in a few years based on the management's road map for success. Personally, I'd certainly be willing to leave some money on the table if it meant playing in a competitive organization with good management and talented players.

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9 hours ago, kinot-2 said:

Which is more important to you? Let's assume that you are a 2nd line player and your contract is expiring (Max), 

To me, I would sign with any team that wanted me, and could offer me the highest money and long term that they could.. NHL players have a very short shelf life. The odds of winning the cup are  slim., but money goes on. 

The thing is, we're not talking about  $50k a year and a chance to win a cup -vs- $10m a year on a bad team.  

These guys are set no matter where they play.  Heck, a $750k a year player should theoretically be set for life.    Humans naturally want to horde as much money as they can but there comes a point where "I have enough either way" and the idea of being in the best position possible to win is the route most guys would chose. Not all - there are plenty of players who will take the extra 500k a year or the extra year on term to go play in the middle of nowhere for a crap team but most guys would rather take a little (not a lot but a little) less and get have what they believe is the best chance at winning a cup. 

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Ask yourselves the same question: would you leave your current home city if it would advance your career (e.g you get a promotion or you get more recognition for your work or so on)? Would you leave your current home city if you were to make 10% more salary? 20% more?

In Pacioretty's case, I think he wants to stay here, mainly for stability for his kids and family. But I also think everyone knows he's been underpaid for the past few years, so I highly doubt he'll take a hometown discount on money or term. If he looks at a guy like Evander Kane, whom he's better than, I think he's aiming for at least 7 years and at least 7M per season on his next deal. I also think now that he knows how fickle Bergevin has been, he's going to want some type of NTC clause to control his own destination for at least the first couple of years of the deal, and I can't blame him for that either. I don't think he'd leave to take 7 x 7.5M elsewhere if the Habs offered 7M per season instead. But I do think he would leave if the Habs insisted on 5 years max and he could get more security elsewhere or if the Habs lowballed him on the money. We already know he rejected a lesser-term contract extension in LA. He might want more, but at the end of the day I think he would settle for 7 years at 7-7.25M if there was an NTC for the first 3 years. My 2 cents. If I were him, I'd probably take something similar to not have to move and uproot my kids, rather than trying to push for an extra few hundred thousand over the contract.

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49 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

Ask yourselves the same question: would you leave your current home city if it would advance your career (e.g you get a promotion or you get more recognition for your work or so on)? Would you leave your current home city if you were to make 10% more salary? 20% more?

 

This is apt, I don't think I'd move to a new city for a 20% pay raise, especially because in Canada that probably means either Toronto/Vancouver where you'd lose it all in living costs, or Alberta where I don't have any family or friend connections. This thought exercise is basically what I'm evaluating for my career plans. I live in Nova Scotia and plan to become a teacher - moving to Ontario or Alberta would be a career-long 15% raise over staying in Nova Scotia, but I really don't have any interest in doing that. If I can't find a full time teaching position in Nova Scotia then I'd move to another province, but all things being equal I value staying in Nova Scotia over a 15% raise in Ontario or Alberta. 

________________

If it were "me",  as in me personally the idiot sitting here at the computer writing this post getting instantly teleported from my normal job to an NHL team that wanted to give me 2nd line money I'd easily take the 4-5M since that's more money than I'll make in my entire life in a single year even if I could maybe get 6M somewhere. If I were actually a hockey player that's worked my entire life to get to the NHL I don't think I'm taking a meaningful pay cut to play for my childhood favourite team or for a contender. I'm not going to chase every last dollar but I'm not taking a meaningful pay cut so my GM can overpay fringe 3rd liners or 3rd pair defensemen. 

If I'm Ellis or Kucherov or Seguin I'm not taking 2nd line money to stay, but I might leave 500k on the table to play in a state with no income tax and cheap cost of living (for Nashville/Tampa at least). Careers are so short and the idea that players should take big pay cuts so teams can throw 4.6M at Karl Alzner or 5.5M at Andrew Ladd or 5.8M at Ryan Callahan is nonsensical, get what you're worth because your career could be over before you know it.  If I'm Pacioretty and I think I can get 7.5M somewhere and the Habs are offering 7M I'd stay because I don't want to uproot my life and family for 500k. If I think I'm worth 7.5M and the Habs are offering 6M, or if they're offering 7X4 while other teams are offering 6 or 7 years, I'm walking.  

The other thing is Pacioretty is absolutely a 1st line player. There is absolutely no way to put Pacioretty outside the top 30 LWs or top 90 forwards which makes him 1st line player by definition. In a world where Drouin is paid 5.5M, Galchenyuk 4.9M, Ladd 5.5M, and E. Kane and JVR just got 7M there is absolutely no way Pacioretty should be taking Drouin/Galchenyuk money and considering he was grossly underpaid his entire career I don't blame him one bit for chasing the money. I also think Pacioretty knows more than most players how quickly NHL careers can end, it's easy to ask why he doesn't take 1Y deals like Hossa did and chase a cup, but if you're Pacioretty and your career nearly ended in an instant before it even really started I think you're going to lock in as much as you can for as many years as you can get.

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If we're talking a star or semi-star, then within reason (40 million contract vs 50 million contract or whatever), the chance to win the cup and city I wanted to live in. 

I simply have nothing to do with that much money. With basic investing, something like 10 million after taxes would be enough for me to live off of extremely comfortably for the rest of my life. I really have no desire for a lamborghini or 20 room mansion or yacht or whatever else.  I suppose I could give the excess to charity, so I guess I'd have to weigh that into the equation.

If we're talking fourth liner, I'd be much more concerned about money since you're talking about a lot less money and need to consider life after hockey (I'd hope to get a decent paying job coaching or whatever, but no guarantees).

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On 9/8/2018 at 0:54 AM, kinot-2 said:

They say that the Cup is the hardest trophy to win, many players never achieve that ( see Marcel Dionne), . So, IMO, money would talk in my case. 

I see what you are saying about winning the Cup versus the money for lower-level players. Hull never won another one again. As far as Marcel Dionne goes - I have never liked him as a player. Defense was a foreign concept to him, much like Pierre Larouche. Remember him - the 50 goal scorer who could not get off the Habs bench when Bowman was coaching them? I remember watching the pregame for the Habs 75th anniversary when Don Cherry called Mario Lemieux the biggest floater in the NHL. I guess somebody got the message because when Lemieux discovered he could still get his points and play some defense, he became a champion. I will never forget the way Dionne cried his way out of Detroit. Looking back on it now, I can see why Roy was angry and a trade was the best thing for him.

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i think i'd be after cup and wanting to play certain places. 

I've read that they've studied this (and i have no idea how) and above 70k a year, money no longer makes you happier. And I buy that more or less. 

But money is a funny thing. A rolex is expensive, i dont even think about buying a rolex or a bentley, i don't long for it cause its not even a possibility, not in my wildest dreams. But if it were, it adds up. A villa in italy? A yacht? Money gets ugly, lots of good people get into the trap of wanting more and more and more. 

Think about the last time you felt bad about yourself? what if you could solve by making yourself feel important by comparing what you have to someone else? it gets ugly

Plus, while most people get an education these days, and learn a few things, these hockey players have none, and are not always the most sophisticated people.

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