Is Price done

[GreekHockeyCoach]

Price is sitting at number 32 in the league in terms of save percentage and 30th for goals against. At a time when the Habs are averaging 3.3 goals per game, one can only feel that with just average goaltending we'd be winning more games.

I personally would like to see him traded or benched. I feel just like the Pacioretty era has ended and needed to end, the Price era needs to end as well. My personal opinion is that we'd be a better team without him. At this stage of the season, he's only costing us games. I just keep shaking my head at some of the goals that he allows and I scream at the television everytime he goes down on his knees on high shots while playing deep in his crease.

[H_T_L]

I don't know if he's done. My heart say's he still has it in him, but for whatever reason his style seems to have changed of late. I too see him on his knees way too often and he's stopped challenging shooters, choosing to play deep in his net. His glove side also seems to be off for whatever reason. I'd like to think those are all technical areas that can be resolved. Could this be a result of being run as often as he has in the past and losing his nerve about venturing out of his crease? Could it be a failure to adjust to the new equipment standards? Could it be the defense in front of him? Could it be a physical or mental problem we're not aware of? Could it be a combination of all those?

I'm still open to giving him some more time. Maybe he needs a new goaltender coach to give him a new perspective. We've all seen what he's capable of when he's at the top of his game. It's tough to think that ability just disappeared.

[BigTed3]

As I've posted elsewhere, I really wonder if Price has mentally checked out after getting his big payday and starting a family. I just don't get the feeling he's motivated right now and I don't get the feeling he's enjoying hockey. I actually almost wonder if he's contemplating retiring early, and I think he's tired of being in the spotlight.

Is he done? I don't think it's a given. He could be, but I think there are two things that would motivate him to get back to the level he was at before:

1. A trade. Doesn't help us, but I could easily see him going to a less media-drive market and having success again.

2. A significant improvement in his D corps and team talent level. Price has always elevated his gameplay at times when he feels he has a good chance to win and be the star. I think if he feels like he's on a team with a chance to win the Cup, he would push himself to reach that peak.

[Habberwacky]

Not  sure he's checked out but being a young kid from a small town can sometimes come back to bite you no matter who you are. I can't imagine some of the issues he deals with. from fatherhood to culture clashes, to playing goal for the biggest sports franchise in hockey and fans who wanted the cup yesterday. Most of us have issues from just watching the games. Never mind trying to validate being worth the 10 mil a year someone decides to give you. Hopefully he can get it together, I see someone who may be just a little stressed out. I have no doubt he wants to meet expectations and think this is where Niemi can help his partner. He's one or two good games away from getting back on track. I'm more worried about the 2 on 1 special we've been selling the last few games. Our defensive play has been worse than awful. Hopefully a better showing tonight against Patches.

[jeff33]

What I would say is we have seen him at his peak, and this is denouement. 

Does that mean I think he is going into the toilet, no. I think he can be a solid #1 for a few more years. "solid #1" is not what you pay 10 mil for.  That contract is right up there with trading subban as one of the hallmarks of what is inmy opinion the worst GM tenure in our history

The worst part is, which compounds the "worst GM" legacy, is that MB doubles down on his stupid moves. we should be actively and aggressively shopping weber, and hes gonna retire here. ditto carey. 

 

[maas_art]

Technically I believe he's still capable & should be for many years.  He's a lot like Luongo (who also seemed to be "done" once he got that huge contract, but has proven everyone wrong) in that his technical side of the game is nearly unparalleled. 

But mentally he seems out of it.  I do wonder if what BigTed has said is the thing (mentally checked out & not loving playing hockey any more) or if its just entirely blown confidence at this point.   

Either way, he's probably 'our problem' at this stage.  While i think he's still tradable, i think the return would be paltry at this point. 

[ChiLla]

We‘ve already seen the best of him and it‘s been amazing. He‘s not going to surprise anyone who has actually payed attention to what he‘s capable of though so yes, based on that perspective, he‘s effectively done. That doesn’t mean he‘s not a great goalie though, I still think he‘ll rebound.

[Habs=stanleycup]

Yes he's done as an elite IMO.

[CaptWelly]

Wow the name to this topic alone? Done ....really? I think when you talk "done" that means nothing more to offer. He did have a solid shutout. He was really strong positional which is when he's best. Will he get back to MVP form maybe not. Does he still have the ability to be elite absolutely. He has had some good games this year  and he has let in goals he shouldn't have. I hope he can regain his focus because he has shown some of where he used to be. He needs to be consistent. Hopefully when Weber comes back that will help to solidify the defense some and steady some other defenseman. Being "done" as stated would be asking about ability and the job he is doing. Is he last in the league in everything? Is he beyond being a even a back up? You can talk about the salary but that is different. A salary isn't by any means ability. Salaries are almost always based on what  you've done and hopefully what you still may accomplish.  JK has 2 goals in all of the games he's played and he was a #3 draft pick if he doesn't score right away I guess he's Done! Goalies like D-men often have long great careers. BTY Lundquist by the numbers is having one of his best years this year. This year our D and even our team is finding it's game, so it's still possible that next year will be better and with a better more experienced (even a year) next years or latter in the year our D might be better and that will help. Is Price on every game absolutely not, at this point unfortunately we need him to be. Hopefully he can regain focus and just be solid and build forward. Do I like the contract no 8 million still high would of been probably about correct.    

[kinot-2]

I'd give him 10 more games before saying that he's done. If he keeps floundering and his GAA ans SV% stay roughly the same, then I would say that he's done. IMO, he's already cost us 4 points. 

[GreekHockeyCoach]

While I agree with everyone saying that our D needs major improvement it doesn't change the fact that Price is allowing weak goals that he would have saved in the past.

The last few years we've had trouble scoring goals. That's not the case so far this year. We have a very fast team and a whole bunch of hungry young players that have a nose for the net. I really like the style of hockey we are playing. Our breakouts and transition through the neutral zone are much better than in previous years. If anything, Price should be rejuvenated with all the new faces and the way the team is scoring goals. All he has to do is stop one less goal a game and we'd be winning more often.

As a few of you said, he's mentally checked out. When you're making the kind of money he's making, you have to be the best player on the team.

[jennifer_rocket]

I believe he's done being "elite" (by my standards, i.e. top-five statistical goaltender in the NHL), but I do think he can get back to being a good number 1 goaltender on our hockey team. Will he ever be super-human and win us a Cup? Probably not. Can he be a part of a successful hockey team that competes in the post-season? I think so.

[habs1952]

Price has been so heavily relied on for the past few years he's been burned out.

[Cenner_Hice]

On ‎11‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 5:51 AM, GreekHockeyCoach said:

While I agree with everyone saying that our D needs major improvement it doesn't change the fact that Price is allowing weak goals that he would have saved in the past.

The last few years we've had trouble scoring goals. That's not the case so far this year. We have a very fast team and a whole bunch of hungry young players that have a nose for the net. I really like the style of hockey we are playing. Our breakouts and transition through the neutral zone are much better than in previous years. If anything, Price should be rejuvenated with all the new faces and the way the team is scoring goals. All he has to do is stop one less goal a game and we'd be winning more often.

As a few of you said, he's mentally checked out. When you're making the kind of money he's making, you have to be the best player on the team.

 

All he has to do is stop one more goal per game... Might be better then.

[olddude]

Is he done, I guess only Carey knows the answer to that question, but I think he is done here. I agree with GHC that he goes down way too much and then stretches forward to make himself even lower. If a willing partner can be found I would trade him, allowing this to continue is going to drag the rest of the team down sooner or later.

[Born-To-Be-A-Hab]

Niemi is playing better than Price now and with Lindgren and McNiven in the system ,the time to trade price is now . We could get a boat load of prospects and draft picks for Price.What free agents are going to be avialable next July 1st ? We have a ton of cap space and maybe Price's 10 million and the way the rest of the team is playing now ,Montreal could attract some big free agents here.

[HabsAlways]

4 hours ago, Born-To-Be-A-Hab said:

Niemi is playing better than Price now and with Lindgren and McNiven in the system ,the time to trade price is now . We could get a boat load of prospects and draft picks for Price.What free agents are going to be avialable next July 1st ? We have a ton of cap space and maybe Price's 10 million and the way the rest of the team is playing now ,Montreal could attract some big free agents here.

With how Price is playing and his 10M/year contract ... we are not getting anything for Price.   Like it or not, we're stuck with him for now

[maas_art]

20 hours ago, Born-To-Be-A-Hab said:

Niemi is playing better than Price now and with Lindgren and McNiven in the system ,the time to trade price is now . We could get a boat load of prospects and draft picks for Price.What free agents are going to be avialable next July 1st ? We have a ton of cap space and maybe Price's 10 million and the way the rest of the team is playing now ,Montreal could attract some big free agents here.

I think you're overestimating Price's value at this point.

I think this summer you could have. I think if he strings together a good stretch you may be able to in the future but right now? I dont think we'd get much for him.  I DO think there's a GM out there that would take a gamble on him but the gamble is the contract. I dont think anyone is gambling on him with assets too.

Plus, he has a NMC right? Although I *think* he might be apt to waive it as any team that is trying to land him likely is a cup contender at this point. 

[jennifer_rocket]

19 minutes ago, maas_art said:

I think you're overestimating Price's value at this point.

I think this summer you could have. I think if he strings together a good stretch you may be able to in the future but right now? I dont think we'd get much for him.  I DO think there's a GM out there that would take a gamble on him but the gamble is the contract. I dont think anyone is gambling on him with assets too.

Plus, he has a NMC right? Although I *think* he might be apt to waive it as any team that is trying to land him likely is a cup contender at this point. 

I doubt Carey waves the NMC. He seems pretty well situated with his family in Montreal now and I believe that would play a key factor in any decision. I think we're pretty much going to be moving forward with Carey Price for the next 8 years. It will be about managing the cap and surrounding him with enough talent to give the team a chance to win. Not an impossible task, by any stretch... well... maybe for this management group it will be, but I think we can expect a different group to come in SOMETIME in the next 8 seasons.

[BigTed3]

I've said it earlier this year, but Carey's technique actually looks better than last year's, for the most part. Better lateral movement, better tracking of the puck, better at staying square to the shooter. However, he seems to hit these lulls where one goal goes in and then his play starts to drop off... not sure if it's mental frustration or just pure physical fatigue, but he doesn't look right at times. I especially dislike the times where he goes down to make a save and the puck goes to the side of the ice where he's left the net empty... he just doesn't seem to be in much of a hurry to get back up and cover the opening. It almost looks like he's saying, chances are I won't make it so just let them have that shot and I'll set up for the next one if they miss. Again, is it laziness? Is it a defeatist attitude? Is he just not physically capable of those types of plays anymore after his lower body injuries of the past?

As far as a trade goes, I don't think he has much value right now. He's still highly respected and I think a lot of GM's would take a gamble on him, but not at that dollar and term. If a GM saw Price had 2-3 years left on a deal, maybe they think it's worth the gamble and they cut their losses sooner rather than later if it doesn't work out. The upside is still there, but the downside is gigantic right now. That said, I think Price can become tradeable again. If he strings together 2-3 good months and shows he can be the Carey of the past, I think it will ease a lot of the fear and risk. Even if he slumps again afterwards, at least GM's will know he's still capable. As it stands, it's been a year and a half since Carey was consistently valuable, so he's got a lot to prove. Right now, teams that spend to the cap won't want to risk losing 10+M in space. And teams that spend to the floor will probably back off knowing Carey's salary is 15M, 15M, 9.75M, 13M for the next 4 years. After that, if he's playing well enough, maybe he's more of an asset for a team trying to teach the cap floor, but then will Carey still be good and will he be interested in waiving his trade protection to go to a low-spending team. Not a lot of things add up well for us. The best case scenario is that Price gets hot and MB is able to move him while he's riding that hot streak.

[jennifer_rocket]

I agree with your analysis Ted, but... I suspect (I assume you suspect, as well) that as long as Bergevin is the General Manager of the Montreal Canadiens, Carey getting hot for a 2-3 month period will be viewed as a 'pat on the back' to Bergevin. A job well done having Carey locked up for 8 seasons. If he plays poorly, he's probably untradeable until the end of his contract. If he plays well, I bet Montreal's management team is happy to have him around. And the NMC makes everything hypothetical, really.

[maas_art]

17 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

he seems to hit these lulls where one goal goes in and then his play starts to drop off... not sure if it's mental frustration or just pure physical fatigue, but he doesn't look right at times.

I feel like he used to do that back before the olympics.  That year, if you remember, he wasnt even a lock to be their starter. But he played pretty well leading up to it, was given a chance and was lights-out. He came back with this swagger he never had before  & then went on a mythical run that gave him god-status.   

He's back to earth now letting in those odd goals that seem totally saveable and come at bad times. This year's team (so far) has been good at "getting them back" but we need to find a way to get his swagger back.  Maybe having Weber come back will help (even if its just the 'idea' of having man-mountain patrolling in front of him) i dont know.

Sure hope something changes in a hurry though. We need him.

[BigTed3]

To further the discussion of Price vs. Niemi, interesting to note that both goalies are pretty much neck and neck in a lot of measurable categories:

- Niemi's save percentage at 5v5 is a bit higher at .911 (vs. ,904 for Price).

- However, Niemi's save % for high danger chances is a bit lower (.781 vs. Price at .797)

- Niemi seeing slightly more rush attempts per ice time than Carey, and Carey slightly more rebound attempts per ice time (both goalies seeing well under league average for this last category though).

- A major difference has been that Price has been much better on the PK... .896 vs. .778 save percentage is his favor. One factor accounting for this? Price facing 1.5 rebound per 60 minutes of PK time while Niemi facing 10 rebound per 60, more than 6 times as much. Tells you that Niemi's rebound control on the PK has been a lot weaker than Carey's.

So all in all, Carey probably compares pretty favorably to Niemi. He's still been the better goalie, just the expectations that are higher.

[H_T_L]

Showing signs of life.

[BizarreReverend]

What's frustrating about Price is that he's become inconsistent. His play will be so poor a thread like this starts, then he's lights out for a couple of games in a row.