Are We In Or Out?

[kinot-2]

What do you think our chances are of getting into the POs? 

Me,,,,, 50-50, we might get 4 out of 8 PTs. Canes might be on the outside, and CLB might lose more games. TB, Peggy, and TO "might"
be resting their players. Admittingly, we were taken to the woodshed last night. We have 2 home game and 2 road games. We might get 4 out of 8 PTs. 

[H_T_L]

I'm thinking we'll get 5 or 6 points out of 8 remaining. We'll still need help but i'm still hopeful.

[maas_art]

whenever mathematically possible, im hopeful. I just dont see the point in being doom and gloom for a team I cheer for. Whats the point in that? To say "see, told you so" when they lose?  Life's too short.

I think there's still a legit chance we make the post season.  Last night was a must win for columbus and a near-must win for us.  There's almost no room for error now though. I think maybe 1 loss is all we can give up in the last 4.

 

What is frustrating to me as a fan is that while this has been a hugely positive season with lots to be excited about, if we miss the playoffs its because of dumb moves by management.  Starting Neimi when everyone with vision could see he was done. Playing Dlo over and over. Playing other 4th line players over and over with better options in the pressbox and laval.  Not giving JK better linemates or assignments. Playing Benn too high up the lineup etc etc. And, of course, the power play. 

Any coach will have his critics - and I do like Julien and co - but there's been a few very major issues that are hard to ignore.   If we miss the POs this year its going to be by a few points.    How many points did Niemi or the PP lose us this season ?

[jennifer_rocket]

4 minutes ago, maas_art said:

What is frustrating to me as a fan is that while this has been a hugely positive season with lots to be excited about, if we miss the playoffs its because of dumb moves by management.  Starting Neimi when everyone with vision could see he was done. Playing Dlo over and over. Playing other 4th line players over and over with better options in the pressbox and laval.  Not giving JK better linemates or assignments. Playing Benn too high up the lineup etc etc. And, of course, the power play. 

The bloody powerplay. That is such a core reason why we're right where we are. Special teams cost us big this season. PP. Dead last. PK. Middle of the pack. We need to improve those areas badly.

[tony5775]

So no doom and gloom here, but with the present coach who thinks the best PP is Weal, KK and Armia. The only thing I have to say is.

[rocketbelifleur]

Can't really expect the Jets to take their foot off the gas. They could slip to a wildcard spot.

To make matters worse, they lost last night.

After that, who knows?

 

[ramcharger440]

It really does not look good right now.

[campabee82]

1 hour ago, tony5775 said:

So no doom and gloom here, but with the present coach who thinks the best PP is Weal, KK and Armia. The only thing I have to say is.

Not yet but close

1 hour ago, rocketbelifleur said:

Can't really expect the Jets to take their foot off the gas. They could slip to a wildcard spot.

To make matters worse, they lost last night.

After that, who knows?

 

 

4 minutes ago, ramcharger440 said:

It really does not look good right now.

Looking ahead we may have a small glimmer of hope as Columbus has 2 B2B remaining and have to play 5 in 8 nights so may be exhausted by the end of it all. But they are against weaker teams.

[habs1952]

It's always a mistake to leave your fate to other teams. We could get 8 points and still not make it. Probably all due to a power play that sucks. 

[maas_art]

1 hour ago, habs1952 said:

It's always a mistake to leave your fate to other teams. We could get 8 points and still not make it. Probably all due to a power play that sucks. 

Agreed.   That said, I *think* if we get all 8 points, we're in. I think if we get 6 or 7 we're close.  I dont see both columbus and carolina winning all their games (that game in hand hurts most right now)

[jennifer_rocket]

I think we're out. I'm not super negative on not making the post-season, but... I just don't see us getting in after last night's loss to Columbus. We've had our shots to grab a wildcard spot and we've failed to do so (e.g. 8-2 loss to ANA, 2-1 OT loss to CAR, 6-2 loss to CLB). I cannot see us being able to scrap our way in this late in the game. I'm looking forward to the last few games. I am also looking forward to seeing how the team may improve this summer.

[jeff33]

The last two games have really confirmed to me that we are not a playoff team.  We lack the skill up front to score when it matters, and we lack the skill on D to contain any strong offensive team. 

I dont want to get into the playoffs, and have our out to lunch GM come on TV and tell me this is a playoff team and anything can happen and thats why all we need to do is add another 7th defenceman and a 13th forward and its all good.

We deserve to miss, and I want to see our GM have to go up there and answer some difficult questions instead of getting a lucky get out of jail pass. 

[maas_art]

17 minutes ago, jeff33 said:

I dont want to get into the playoffs, and have our out to lunch GM come on TV and tell me this is a playoff team and anything can happen and thats why all we need to do is add another 7th defenceman and a 13th forward and its all good.

We deserve to miss, and I want to see our GM have to go up there and answer some difficult questions instead of getting a lucky get out of jail pass. 

Unfortunately even a narrow miss I think yields the same results.  I dont think MB will have any pressure on him from GM or the BOG. I dont think he will view things any differently than if we made the PO and lost in the first round. 

[HabsRuleForever]

1 hour ago, jennifer_rocket said:

I think we're out. I'm not super negative on not making the post-season, but... I just don't see us getting in after last night's loss to Columbus. We've had our shots to grab a wildcard spot and we've failed to do so (e.g. 8-2 loss to ANA, 2-1 OT loss to CAR, 6-2 loss to CLB). I cannot see us being able to scrap our way in this late in the game. I'm looking forward to the last few games. I am also looking forward to seeing how the team may improve this summer.

The New Jersey losses & most of all is  the Anti goalie's games & we'd probably be in. I'm not even including our lack of a power play 

[jennifer_rocket]

8 minutes ago, maas_art said:

Unfortunately even a narrow miss I think yields the same results.  I dont think MB will have any pressure on him from GM or the BOG. I dont think he will view things any differently than if we made the PO and lost in the first round. 

I agree. I think Bergevin gets to go in front of the cameras no matter what happens and pat himself on the back this year. I really don't think that's warranted (we could be a worse team next year for all anyone knows), but that's what's going to happen. If we narrowly miss the post-season or if they make it and get ousted in round one. The same thing will happen. Bergevin will tell us what a success the season has been and we'll have to wait and see if the team improves, stays the same, or regresses next year.

[caperns61]

All the shoulda coulda wooda doesn't matter. We can look back at the season and say we should have won this game and that game, but any team in the league can say the same thing. We deserved to lose to Carolina and Columbus, they are just better teams then us  

Price has been lights out the last few months and have kept us in the hunt, otherwise I think we would be where buffalo or florida is/

I think the whole mantra of the team changed over the last few months. I have not seen the same up tempo game we played in the first half of the season. We actually looked really slow compared to columbus, carolina and the islanders even though we won easily in Montreal. I think we caught them on a bit of a slide in that game. 

I think with the addition of players like Nate THomps, weal, folin, weise we became more of a veteran team and tried to become  a defensive team. score a goal and sit back.

Reilly being benched, KK benched and limited icetime, Byron back on the fourth line and not killing penalties, Drouin being benched and 4th line minutes, i get why. But with Domi they created offense. Droiun can open up the ice with his speed..Byron can open up the ice with his speed?

If you are going to play a speed game then you have to have your speed players playing, Also you have to inject the youth and live and die with them so the team can grow. That is the way we started this season and that is why we had some success, When the coaches started believing players like Thomspson, Weal Folin Weise were our answers well.....I would have been playing KK 18 plus minutes a game down the stretch and Droiun and Reilly ..Those are the players that got us here. NOT Nate Thompson or Weal or Folin ............

We still may be in the same position but maybe if we didnt suck the life out of these players by sitting at the end of the bench or in the stands they could have made a difference ...if nothing else gained more experience in these playoff type games..

 

[BigTed3]

The Habs have only missed the playoffs in consecutive seasons twice before. Once was between 1919 and 1921, where they missed three years in a row, and those were in days where a coach was only just starting to exist as a permanent fixture. The other time was in three straight years between the 1998-99 and 2000-01 seasons. Vigneault started the 3rd season but lost his job very quickly into it, being replaced by Therrien at the time. Rejean Houle also lost his job as GM.

So what's the point? The team hasn't missed back to back very often in 100 years of existence. And when it did happen, the coach and GM didn't last very long. I know MB has got Molson wrapped around his little finger, and the team is certainly better than last year, but let's not forget that the team hit rock bottom last season on account of Bergevin's mistakes to begin with. So how long does he really get to turn the ship around? He got Carey playing at top form again and it may still not be enough. He managed to find some balanced scoring, and it may still not be enough. There are still glaring holes on this team, which we've repeated over and over:

1. The powerplay is awful and lacks a true sniper.

2. The LHD situation is horrendous because of a lack of top pairing guy.

3. The back-up goalie is possibly the worst tender active in the league and definitely cost us points this year.

4. There are still too many talentless grinders taking ice time away from skill players.

Now that last point has gotten better this year. We've seen Alzner and Schlemko go. But we're still using Deslauriers and we've added Weise. We have Peca and Weal with a bit more speed, but the bottom 6 forwards haven't provided much ability to score goals and lacking superstars in the top 6, we really needed to make up for that somewhere. I don't know that we can pin everything on MB and I will give him that his off-season in retrospect looked pretty good, but he has failed to address the need for a sniper and one can certainly fault him for not finding a better option than Niemi. Even if we can all agree finding a top-pairing LHD is a hard task, there is no reason he couldn't have improved upon his back-up, and if Niemi legitimately cost us 5-6 points this year by himself, then that might be the difference between a 7th seed and missing the playoffs.

As for the LHD, it's true that they don't grow on trees, but on the other hand, MB traded a potential top pairing guy to acquire Drouin and he could have looked into moving any of Drouin, Weber, or Petry to find a left-handed D man. It leaves another hole, true, but it certainly also would have filled a bigger one. I think we'd be better off with Byron on our 3rd line instead of Drouin than having Kulak in our top 4.

I think MB will survive the off-season, but if history tells us anything, I don't think he's got long to get this together. If the Habs miss the playoffs this season and start badly next season, he'll be on the hotseat very quickly.

[ramcharger440]

1 hour ago, BigTed3 said:

The Habs have only missed the playoffs in consecutive seasons twice before. Once was between 1919 and 1921, where they missed three years in a row, and those were in days where a coach was only just starting to exist as a permanent fixture. The other time was in three straight years between the 1998-99 and 2000-01 seasons. Vigneault started the 3rd season but lost his job very quickly into it, being replaced by Therrien at the time. Rejean Houle also lost his job as GM.

So what's the point? The team hasn't missed back to back very often in 100 years of existence. And when it did happen, the coach and GM didn't last very long. I know MB has got Molson wrapped around his little finger, and the team is certainly better than last year, but let's not forget that the team hit rock bottom last season on account of Bergevin's mistakes to begin with. So how long does he really get to turn the ship around? He got Carey playing at top form again and it may still not be enough. He managed to find some balanced scoring, and it may still not be enough. There are still glaring holes on this team, which we've repeated over and over:

1. The powerplay is awful and lacks a true sniper.

2. The LHD situation is horrendous because of a lack of top pairing guy.

3. The back-up goalie is possibly the worst tender active in the league and definitely cost us points this year.

4. There are still too many talentless grinders taking ice time away from skill players.

Now that last point has gotten better this year. We've seen Alzner and Schlemko go. But we're still using Deslauriers and we've added Weise. We have Peca and Weal with a bit more speed, but the bottom 6 forwards haven't provided much ability to score goals and lacking superstars in the top 6, we really needed to make up for that somewhere. I don't know that we can pin everything on MB and I will give him that his off-season in retrospect looked pretty good, but he has failed to address the need for a sniper and one can certainly fault him for not finding a better option than Niemi. Even if we can all agree finding a top-pairing LHD is a hard task, there is no reason he couldn't have improved upon his back-up, and if Niemi legitimately cost us 5-6 points this year by himself, then that might be the difference between a 7th seed and missing the playoffs.

As for the LHD, it's true that they don't grow on trees, but on the other hand, MB traded a potential top pairing guy to acquire Drouin and he could have looked into moving any of Drouin, Weber, or Petry to find a left-handed D man. It leaves another hole, true, but it certainly also would have filled a bigger one. I think we'd be better off with Byron on our 3rd line instead of Drouin than having Kulak in our top 4.

I think MB will survive the off-season, but if history tells us anything, I don't think he's got long to get this together. If the Habs miss the playoffs this season and start badly next season, he'll be on the hotseat very quickly.

I agree, but if he has another offseason like the last he could perhaps redeem himself but he better not screw the pooch!

[Habberwacky]

I think we still have a chance and look at the Leaf game where we blew a 3-0 lead or some of the games we let slip away late as our downfall and that to me is our inexperience showing. If I look at the age of this team and I see this as a very good season.  If we can get 6 or 7 points we have a good chance.  it will be close. Ottawa might give Duchene a hard time and Carolina is going to have a hard time breaking this losing streak , If either or both go 4 and 1 or 3 and 2 we are done. Going 2-2-1  or worse could give us the chance we need. It would be nice to get a win against Winnie and see them lose their back to backs on the weekend Carolina home to Philly and road with Pens, while Blue Jackets are in Nashville and Buffalo.

[BigTed3]

1 hour ago, ramcharger440 said:

I agree, but if he has another offseason like the last he could perhaps redeem himself but he better not screw the pooch!

Sure, but the big problem is that MB has put up a good off-season after spending a lot of years doing nothing. He wasted a lot of the prime contending years hanging on to a coach with no system or true coaching ability past trying to be a rah-rah motivator. That killed us. He hung on to Lefebvre as well despite poor performances and an utter lack of developing NHL players via the AHL. He spent too much time relying on Price to carry team and failing to recognize that his skaters outside the crease were not getting the job done. He's spent too much time (and continues to do so) stockpiling 4th line grinders and depth defenceman without actually upgrading in spots that he needed to.

So MB absolutely had a good off-season last summer, but if you look at the sum of his work, he's a guy who has twice been gifted a 3rd overall pick, who inherited a roster with Pacioretty/Price/Subban in their prime, and who has managed to downgrade one of those assets into a past-prime veteran, de-value a number of key players before trading them, and pushed us into being a team that could now miss the playoffs in back-to-back years and three out of the past four. Again, this is an organization where that just happened very often, and the only time it has in the modern era, the coach and GM were fired quickly after. Just not sure how many chances Bergevin gets to make this right and how many he should get. We all knew this should be a rebuilding year, and again, I'm not going to fault MB for not trading futures to get a top 4 D man. But I will fault him for the work he's done up to this point as a GM and I will certainly fault him this year for not fixing the back-up goalie position and not replacing the sniping aspect that he lost when we dealt Galchenyuk and Pacioretty.

[Regis22]

Probably , out . 4 games remaining against 4 of the best teams in the league

[HARBORSPORT]

struggling for consistency all season long with an average offense, and a sub-par D, we might just get in if they all show up ready to perform.....maybe we'll be more lucky than good

[ramcharger440]

16 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

Sure, but the big problem is that MB has put up a good off-season after spending a lot of years doing nothing. He wasted a lot of the prime contending years hanging on to a coach with no system or true coaching ability past trying to be a rah-rah motivator. That killed us. He hung on to Lefebvre as well despite poor performances and an utter lack of developing NHL players via the AHL. He spent too much time relying on Price to carry team and failing to recognize that his skaters outside the crease were not getting the job done. He's spent too much time (and continues to do so) stockpiling 4th line grinders and depth defenceman without actually upgrading in spots that he needed to.

So MB absolutely had a good off-season last summer, but if you look at the sum of his work, he's a guy who has twice been gifted a 3rd overall pick, who inherited a roster with Pacioretty/Price/Subban in their prime, and who has managed to downgrade one of those assets into a past-prime veteran, de-value a number of key players before trading them, and pushed us into being a team that could now miss the playoffs in back-to-back years and three out of the past four. Again, this is an organization where that just happened very often, and the only time it has in the modern era, the coach and GM were fired quickly after. Just not sure how many chances Bergevin gets to make this right and how many he should get. We all knew this should be a rebuilding year, and again, I'm not going to fault MB for not trading futures to get a top 4 D man. But I will fault him for the work he's done up to this point as a GM and I will certainly fault him this year for not fixing the back-up goalie position and not replacing the sniping aspect that he lost when we dealt Galchenyuk and Pacioretty.

Yes which is why i said he better get it right this off season again. the mistakes of the past are just that if he has learned and now moves forward in the right directon as he seemed to last summer we will be fine if he regresses again we will be toast.

[BigTed3]

1 hour ago, ramcharger440 said:

Yes which is why i said he better get it right this off season again. the mistakes of the past are just that if he has learned and now moves forward in the right directon as he seemed to last summer we will be fine if he regresses again we will be toast.

Yep, wasn't disagreeing with you, just elaborating... I just wonder how many chances Bergevin gets. Lets say the Habs bring in Romanov and Brook and Suzuki and Poehling next year and they have years like Kotkaniemi and Mete and Juulsen had this year, which is to say they play well but they're clearly still learning and not quite ready yet. How patient is Molson? Does he say, okay there's a progression here and we're building to something and therefore results don't matter yet? Or does say we're missing the playoffs 2-3 years in a row and doing so all the while with our best players like Weber and Price and Petry becoming declining assets? It would be one thing if MB had a plan in place from year one or year two of his tenure and we were building to a window thereafter. But Bergevin has already blown one clear competitive window (Price/Markov/Plekanec/Pacioretty/Subban/Eller/etc.) and he's redone the entire roster at least once. So what makes him so special that he gets to do it all over two or three times to show he's learned?

Lets say we miss the post-season this year. What does MB have to do next year to save his job? If we get off to a bad start is he done? If he fails to find a #1 LHD and fix the PP, is he done? If we make the playoffs in 2019-20 but flame out in the first round, is that enough? This team not only has missed the playoffs more regularly in Bergevin's tenure than any other GM's, we also haven't had much success in the post-season when we've gotten there.

[H_T_L]

21 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

 

Lets say we miss the post-season this year. What does MB have to do next year to save his job? 

Buy the team off Molson.