Rumours

[electron58]

10 hours ago, ChiLla said:

It's definitely tempting and I'd probably do it. I'd hate losing Caufield obviously but even though he seems to have all the tools, we don't know if they will translate to the big league. Laine is the more proven asset for sure, size isn't a concern, and chances are Caufield won't be much of an upgrade defensively compared to PL. Tenacity/hustle/work ethic maybe, but how effective will he be in that regard given his stature? If they want Drouin, I'm not throwing in a pick though, unless they take Byron too. That would give CLB a top 6 winger and a bottom 6 winger who can help right away, plus a blue-chip prospect and a pick (2nd rounder?), while we'd get a pure scoring winger in his prime and gain valuable cap space which we'll need to re-sign the guy. Sounds fairly even to me, the question is if there are teams who are willing to offer more, which may well be the case.

Also, pure conjecture on my part, but Laine strikes me as the kind of player who would thrive in a market like Montreal. It's definitely an interesting (and note entirely surprising) situation in CLB...

I don't give up Caufield in any trade. Sweeten it another way, but, No to CC. We need some elite talent at entry level rates. If Columbus really think they have to move PL, then they'll make it work.

[maas_art]

12 hours ago, ChiLla said:

It's definitely tempting and I'd probably do it. I'd hate losing Caufield obviously but even though he seems to have all the tools, we don't know if they will translate to the big league. Laine is the more proven asset for sure, size isn't a concern, and chances are Caufield won't be much of an upgrade defensively compared to PL. Tenacity/hustle/work ethic maybe, but how effective will he be in that regard given his stature? If they want Drouin, I'm not throwing in a pick though, unless they take Byron too. That would give CLB a top 6 winger and a bottom 6 winger who can help right away, plus a blue-chip prospect and a pick (2nd rounder?), while we'd get a pure scoring winger in his prime and gain valuable cap space which we'll need to re-sign the guy. Sounds fairly even to me, the question is if there are teams who are willing to offer more, which may well be the case.

Also, pure conjecture on my part, but Laine strikes me as the kind of player who would thrive in a market like Montreal. It's definitely an interesting (and note entirely surprising) situation in CLB...

 

1 hour ago, electron58 said:

I don't give up Caufield in any trade. Sweeten it another way, but, No to CC. We need some elite talent at entry level rates. If Columbus really think they have to move PL, then they'll make it work.

The fact Laine is 22 would probably also make me consider it at least.  Its not like you're giving up CC for a 26 year old. Most NHL players are barely making their debut at Laine's age & he already has a 44 goal season under his belt. Heck, if you prorate last year, he has scored over 30 in all 4 of his seasons so far.   He's a legite elite nhl talent.  Could Caufield be that too? Yes, maybe.  Will he? Who knows.   A bird in the hand...

Of course on the flip side CC offers one huge plus:  ELC.   He's going to be making a pitence (by NHL standards) for 2 more years after this one & wont be UFA for what, 6 years?    Laine is only a few years away from UFA and already makes nearly $7m/season.   If you keep caufield you keep depth players like Tatar, Byron etc.  If you trade CC for PL, you likely lose at least a couple of those as a salary offset.  

Not an easy choice for sure.  But id be shocked if it was even considered.   Maybe MB offers Drouin + Byron + pick but thats about it imho. I cant see him even considering moving on from Suzuki,Romanov,Caufield,Norlinder or JK right now.   Imho those guys are probably untouchable in MB's mind. 

[jennifer_rocket]

I'm not trading Cole Caulfield unless we are getting an incredible young D coming back. Otherwise, I'd rather just see him develop in our system and play NHL games for Montreal.

[claremont]

5 hours ago, maas_art said:

Somewhat surprisingly, Ghost cleared waivers. I was sure someone would have taken a chance, but i guess those multi-year deals are risky right now.  I do wonder if a move for salary would make sense.  I feel like you could probably offer Chairot for Ghost & Philly would bite.  I dont think MB would though. 

That could happen in the off season - Chiarot answered the code for KK in the fight that broke his hand. I don't see MB insulting him or the team spirit by trading Chiarot this season. IMO this is an action that transcends the "This is a business" line for now and it's up to Chiarot to deliver in the post season, otherwise he is expendable by trade or non-protection in the expansion draft. 

[ChiLla]

14 hours ago, electron58 said:

I don't give up Caufield in any trade. Sweeten it another way, but, No to CC. We need some elite talent at entry level rates. If Columbus really think they have to move PL, then they'll make it work.

 

12 hours ago, maas_art said:

 

The fact Laine is 22 would probably also make me consider it at least.  Its not like you're giving up CC for a 26 year old. Most NHL players are barely making their debut at Laine's age & he already has a 44 goal season under his belt. Heck, if you prorate last year, he has scored over 30 in all 4 of his seasons so far.   He's a legite elite nhl talent.  Could Caufield be that too? Yes, maybe.  Will he? Who knows.   A bird in the hand...

Of course on the flip side CC offers one huge plus:  ELC.   He's going to be making a pitence (by NHL standards) for 2 more years after this one & wont be UFA for what, 6 years?    Laine is only a few years away from UFA and already makes nearly $7m/season.   If you keep caufield you keep depth players like Tatar, Byron etc.  If you trade CC for PL, you likely lose at least a couple of those as a salary offset.  

Not an easy choice for sure.  But id be shocked if it was even considered.   Maybe MB offers Drouin + Byron + pick but thats about it imho. I cant see him even considering moving on from Suzuki,Romanov,Caufield,Norlinder or JK right now.   Imho those guys are probably untouchable in MB's mind. 

 

12 hours ago, jennifer_rocket said:

I'm not trading Cole Caulfield unless we are getting an incredible young D coming back. Otherwise, I'd rather just see him develop in our system and play NHL games for Montreal.

All very valid points. Even though Laine is struggling this season under Tortorella, which the majority probably expected, I still think he's an elite scoring winger with a strong chance of bouncing back under the right circumstances. Columbus has issues down the middle and I'd love to see Laine with Suzuki or Kotkaniemi. Anyway, I don't think it'll happen given our cap situation and as jen pointed out, adding a young, mobile Dman is certainly a more pressing need. It's a fun idea to play around with though, let's see where he ends up.

[claremont]

Wouldn’t it be funny if Torts is axed in Columbus, and Laine plus picks or other is traded to Buffalo for Eichel. Then Torts is hired by Buffalo as their coach 

[ChiLla]

1 hour ago, claremont said:

Wouldn’t it be funny if Torts is axed in Columbus, and Laine plus picks or other is traded to Buffalo for Eichel. Then Torts is hired by Buffalo as their coach 

Telenovela material, I like it 

[BigTed3]

Guillaume Latendresse says if he were in charge, he would look to trade Drouin for help on defence and then re-sign Tatar for cheaper than it would cost to keep Drouin around. He says Drouin would have considerable trade value and while he isn't looking to trade Drouin, he thinks the Habs need help on D and that Drouin is one trade chip that could bring them top-end help they need.

[ramcharger440]

35 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

Guillaume Latendresse says if he were in charge, he would look to trade Drouin for help on defence and then re-sign Tatar for cheaper than it would cost to keep Drouin around. He says Drouin would have considerable trade value and while he isn't looking to trade Drouin, he thinks the Habs need help on D and that Drouin is one trade chip that could bring them top-end help they need.

Interesting....I think a D man would have to go too as we would have a surplus from a money side of them at that point.

[electron58]

6 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

Guillaume Latendresse says if he were in charge, he would look to trade Drouin for help on defence and then re-sign Tatar for cheaper than it would cost to keep Drouin around. He says Drouin would have considerable trade value and while he isn't looking to trade Drouin, he thinks the Habs need help on D and that Drouin is one trade chip that could bring them top-end help they need.

That's what I'm talking about. He's got value? Then we can trade him with a defenseman & a pick for an uber upgrade on D. I like Tatar's game a lot better.

[Paul Martin]

If Gally goes on LITR How about Armeia for Palmeiri with NJ  Retaining some salary.    Also Mete for Gubranson with Ottawa retainking some salary.  Gally comes back for playoffs and  we still have a scoring RW in Palmeirit and Gubranson will slot in nicely on right side with Romanov.   Stil should have cap room to manager roster comfortably. 

[tony5775]

13 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

Guillaume Latendresse says if he were in charge, he would look to trade Drouin for help on defence and then re-sign Tatar for cheaper than it would cost to keep Drouin around. He says Drouin would have considerable trade value and while he isn't looking to trade Drouin, he thinks the Habs need help on D and that Drouin is one trade chip that could bring them top-end help they need.

I think we should find out what Rejean Houle would do first before we pull the trigger on this one. 

[claremont]

1 hour ago, tony5775 said:

I think we should find out what Rejean Houle would do first before we pull the trigger on this one. 

  I'm not one to give up on Drouin just yet - I am interested to see how he does in the playoff round before potentially selling high or low on him. As far as the defense goes - I would love an upgrade but not for this playoff run if it means sacrificing some future - we are an ascending team. The time to make the major moves IMO, is for the off season. So I am not on Latendresse's side but if anyone knows about underperforming forwards, he's lived that through experience! 

[BigTed3]

2 hours ago, tony5775 said:

I think we should find out what Rejean Houle would do first before we pull the trigger on this one. 

 

1 hour ago, claremont said:

  I'm not one to give up on Drouin just yet - I am interested to see how he does in the playoff round before potentially selling high or low on him. As far as the defense goes - I would love an upgrade but not for this playoff run if it means sacrificing some future - we are an ascending team. The time to make the major moves IMO, is for the off season. So I am not on Latendresse's side but if anyone knows about underperforming forwards, he's lived that through experience! 

Just to clarify, I'm not suggesting we trade Drouin, just reporting what Latendresse said. And Latendresse didn't say he sees Drouin as under-performing or a problem player, he actually is somewhat saying the opposite and saying the reason he would trade him is that he has value as a commodity to bring back the top 4 D help the Habs need. He thinks Tatar can be re-signed for cheaper than Drouin and fill the LW spot next year in his place, rather than letting Tatar walk and not filling the LHD spot.

FWIW, I don't have a problem with Drouin. I think he's made strides in his defensive game and in giving a more consistent effort over the past two years. His effort was lacking when he first got here, but I find he's played well this year and last. Whether he's meeting expectations depends on what your expectations are. If you're someone who still thinks he can be a 1C who puts up 80 points, then you're always going to be disappointed by him. If you view him as a 50-60 point 2nd line winger, you'll feel he's fulfilling his role. Keep in mind that in the past 5 years before the current season, the Habs have only had 4 players hit the 60-point mark or higher, so it's not a common feat. The last time we had an 80-point player was 2007-08 when Alex Kovalev did it. So 50-60 points is a reasonably good season.

[campabee82]

8 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

 

Just to clarify, I'm not suggesting we trade Drouin, just reporting what Latendresse said. And Latendresse didn't say he sees Drouin as under-performing or a problem player, he actually is somewhat saying the opposite and saying the reason he would trade him is that he has value as a commodity to bring back the top 4 D help the Habs need. He thinks Tatar can be re-signed for cheaper than Drouin and fill the LW spot next year in his place, rather than letting Tatar walk and not filling the LHD spot.

FWIW, I don't have a problem with Drouin. I think he's made strides in his defensive game and in giving a more consistent effort over the past two years. His effort was lacking when he first got here, but I find he's played well this year and last. Whether he's meeting expectations depends on what your expectations are. If you're someone who still thinks he can be a 1C who puts up 80 points, then you're always going to be disappointed by him. If you view him as a 50-60 point 2nd line winger, you'll feel he's fulfilling his role. Keep in mind that in the past 5 years before the current season, the Habs have only had 4 players hit the 60-point mark or higher, so it's not a common feat. The last time we had an 80-point player was 2007-08 when Alex Kovalev did it. So 50-60 points is a reasonably good season.

I disagree with Latendresse's assessment, IF we trade Drouin our LW gets considerably weaker unless your plan is to move KK or Staal to the wing permanently. Drouin is the only real playmaking forward we have. We should center a trade some of our surplus depth and prospects and picks for an upgrade on D IMO. If you can center a trade around something like Byron or Chiarot + Struble or Mysak + 1st or 2nd for a young top 4 PM D we should do that before weakening the roster just ahead of the playoffs.

[dreegking]

17 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

Guillaume Latendresse says if he were in charge, he would look to trade Drouin for help on defence and then re-sign Tatar for cheaper than it would cost to keep Drouin around. He says Drouin would have considerable trade value and while he isn't looking to trade Drouin, he thinks the Habs need help on D and that Drouin is one trade chip that could bring them top-end help they need.

I can agree with Tartar over Drouin. But you have to sign Tartar first. 
 

drouin would need a hefty top up with a high draft pick to acquire a top end defence man. 

[BigTed3]

1 hour ago, campabee82 said:

I disagree with Latendresse's assessment, IF we trade Drouin our LW gets considerably weaker unless your plan is to move KK or Staal to the wing permanently. Drouin is the only real playmaking forward we have. We should center a trade some of our surplus depth and prospects and picks for an upgrade on D IMO. If you can center a trade around something like Byron or Chiarot + Struble or Mysak + 1st or 2nd for a young top 4 PM D we should do that before weakening the roster just ahead of the playoffs.

I think Latenderesse is saying that we won't be able to keep Tatar AND Drouin next year because of the cap, and that Drouin has more trade value so why not go get the LHD you need and then just re-sign Tatar to fill the spot you would have given Drouin in 2021-22. Either way next year, we're unlikely to keep both, so we're going to need another solution at LW anyways. I am assuming that we'll be playing Toffoli on the left next year with Gallagher/Anderson/Caufield/Ylonen already primarily right wingers, but you never know... I've already outlined why I think Caufield could be an effective LW as well. I think there are options in house. Again, not advocating trading Drouin, just saying I think Latendresse is right that LHD is a more pressing need and if that's your best way of addressing it, it's an option. I'd rather have Tatar + new top 4 LHD than keep Drouin, let Tatar walk for nothing, and have no LHD.

[habsisme]

3 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

I think Latenderesse is saying that we won't be able to keep Tatar AND Drouin next year because of the cap, and that Drouin has more trade value so why not go get the LHD you need and then just re-sign Tatar to fill the spot you would have given Drouin in 2021-22. Either way next year, we're unlikely to keep both, so we're going to need another solution at LW anyways. I am assuming that we'll be playing Toffoli on the left next year with Gallagher/Anderson/Caufield/Ylonen already primarily right wingers, but you never know... I've already outlined why I think Caufield could be an effective LW as well. I think there are options in house. Again, not advocating trading Drouin, just saying I think Latendresse is right that LHD is a more pressing need and if that's your best way of addressing it, it's an option. I'd rather have Tatar + new top 4 LHD than keep Drouin, let Tatar walk for nothing, and have no LHD.

the habs CAN sign Tatar, so long as its a reasonable contract (similar to the one he's on now), if they don't sign Danault. I assume we're keeping one and losing the other. I'd rather keep Tatar and Drouin

[jennifer_rocket]

I would be very hesitant to resign Tatar. He's 30 years old and he's not scoring at the same pace he was in previous seasons. He also might command just as much as Drouin on the open market. I'd be more inclined to keep Drouin.

[maas_art]

14 minutes ago, jennifer_rocket said:

I would be very hesitant to resign Tatar. He's 30 years old and he's not scoring at the same pace he was in previous seasons. He also might command just as much as Drouin on the open market. I'd be more inclined to keep Drouin.

Between the 2 Id also keep Drouin, if for nothing else, the age. They play different games of course, i like aspects of both of their games. I do still think drouin has a higher ceiling but not sure he'll ever reach it - but i wouldnt be surprised to see him out performing Tatar for the next 3 -4 years (which is probably the contract Tatar will be looking for).

That said, if i could get the right deal (for a LD for example) id do it with either & keep the other.  

I do think that Drouin has more value than Tatar though. Probably not substantially more but more imho. 

[BigTed3]

1 hour ago, jennifer_rocket said:

I would be very hesitant to resign Tatar. He's 30 years old and he's not scoring at the same pace he was in previous seasons. He also might command just as much as Drouin on the open market. I'd be more inclined to keep Drouin.

 

43 minutes ago, maas_art said:

Between the 2 Id also keep Drouin, if for nothing else, the age. They play different games of course, i like aspects of both of their games. I do still think drouin has a higher ceiling but not sure he'll ever reach it - but i wouldnt be surprised to see him out performing Tatar for the next 3 -4 years (which is probably the contract Tatar will be looking for).

That said, if i could get the right deal (for a LD for example) id do it with either & keep the other.  

I do think that Drouin has more value than Tatar though. Probably not substantially more but more imho. 

Not saying this will happen, but I think what Latendresse is saying is let's say you can

1. Re-sign Tatar for 3 years at 4.25M a year (i.e less than Drouin is making)

2. Trade Drouin for someone like Travis Sanheim

His point is that you're better off having Sanheim/Tatar next year than letting Tatar walk for nothing and having Drouin and still using Chiarot/Edmundson/Kulak down the left side.

[maas_art]

1 minute ago, BigTed3 said:

 

Not saying this will happen, but I think what Latendresse is saying is let's say you can

1. Re-sign Tatar for 3 years at 4.25M a year (i.e less than Drouin is making)

2. Trade Drouin for someone like Travis Sanheim

His point is that you're better off having Sanheim/Tatar next year than letting Tatar walk for nothing and having Drouin and still using Chiarot/Edmundson/Kulak down the left side.

For sure. And im more than happy to have Sanheim/Tatar than Chairot/Drouin

[arpem-can]

22 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

Guillaume Latendresse says if he were in charge, he would look to trade Drouin for help on defence and then re-sign Tatar for cheaper than it would cost to keep Drouin around. He says Drouin would have considerable trade value and while he isn't looking to trade Drouin, he thinks the Habs need help on D and that Drouin is one trade chip that could bring them top-end help they need.

I don't put much faith in what Latendresse says ...Drouin is around for another 2 years after this and Tatar will want a 3 or 4 year contract for more money and he won't get it from the Habs ...I think it's more likely Tatar gets traded at the deadline than Drouin  

[habsisme]

3 minutes ago, arpem-can said:

I don't put much faith in what Latendresse says ...Drouin is around for another 2 years after this and Tatar will want a 3 or 4 year contract for more money and he won't get it from the Habs ...I think it's more likely Tatar gets traded at the deadline than Drouin  

i dont think either of them will get traded. 

with the flat cap, Tatar may sign here for the same money he was making. To me it would be worth it. 

The only way a roster player gets traded is to bring in a big contract, but it will be someone like Lehkonen or Armia, not Tatar or Drouin, I'd be shocked if they were moved. 

[maas_art]

13 minutes ago, arpem-can said:

I don't put much faith in what Latendresse says ...Drouin is around for another 2 years after this and Tatar will want a 3 or 4 year contract for more money and he won't get it from the Habs ...I think it's more likely Tatar gets traded at the deadline than Drouin  

 

7 minutes ago, habsisme said:

i dont think either of them will get traded. 

with the flat cap, Tatar may sign here for the same money he was making. To me it would be worth it. 

The only way a roster player gets traded is to bring in a big contract, but it will be someone like Lehkonen or Armia, not Tatar or Drouin, I'd be shocked if they were moved. 

 

yeah im not convinced Tatar will be looking for a raise. First, there's a flat cap as mentioned, but also remember he was a "throw in/salary dump" in a trade because he did so poorly in Vegas. He has said a few times in interviews he was devastated at how quickly things went south.  I could see him taking an offer from MB if its even close to what he is making now. I am not sure about term. That could be the stumbling block.  I think he'll take a discount to stay.