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2019-20 State Of The Habs


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1 hour ago, campabee82 said:

Oh and to be clear Ted my disagreement with you isn't about who to trade or who to keep my issue is you keep saying pick either rebuild and get rid of the vets or go all in. Like you have said we are basically 2 players short of serious contention why not get those 2 and go for it now while still retooling on the fly. If we got Hall and Fowler or Gostisbehere we would be contenders now and for the rest of Weber, Price and Petry's careers and it still wouldn't cost so much to get 2 of them that you sacrificing the future.

Which I think is also a fair option. I don't have any interest in taking on a bad contract like Vlasic nor in acquiring an over-priced rental. But if you can make a hockey trade to get a guy like Fowler or Werenski or Ghost, then yes, those types of deals could make sense. And yes, if MB can make a legitimate add, then yes, you absolutely look at keeping your core intact and trying to make a run this year and next. I'm willing to lose a guy like Petry or Tatar for nothing IF we're a top 5-6 team in the league and we have a real shot at a Cup. Like we've both said, I think MB also needs to find another scorer although it's a lesser need with Drouin eventually coming back and even Caufield maybe being eligible to join us for a playoff push.

 

36 minutes ago, ChiLla said:

Thanks, that was the point I was trying to make. It's perfectly fine to have different opinions on the subject and I completely understand that having a mentor like Weber is very valuable in itself. I just think it makes more sense to maybe trade guy like Petry for a really good return, take all those assets and still have Weber on the team. Petry is what, 33 years old when his contract expires? What's his next contract going to look like? I've never said we should blow this up and trade Price, Weber, and Petry right now for whatever we can get, that's just dumb.

Would I trade any one of those 3 guys if the return was just a 2nd round pick and mid-level prospect? Nope. Because you could probably wait til deadline day next year and get a 1st rounder for each of Petry and Tatar at a minimum. But if you get a chance to make a hockey trade that makes you younger and potentially better in the future, then you consider it, especially if you're not able to do what is discussed above and find the extra 2 guys you need to put you in contention right away. Like I said, either commit to winning with your core now or else commit to winning in the future, but you can't be caught in no man's land and have no plan other than to just ride these guys to the fringe of the playoffs and then potentially lose some of them for nothing while watching other ones get older and less effective.

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45 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

Which I think is also a fair option. I don't have any interest in taking on a bad contract like Vlasic nor in acquiring an over-priced rental. But if you can make a hockey trade to get a guy like Fowler or Werenski or Ghost, then yes, those types of deals could make sense. And yes, if MB can make a legitimate add, then yes, you absolutely look at keeping your core intact and trying to make a run this year and next. I'm willing to lose a guy like Petry or Tatar for nothing IF we're a top 5-6 team in the league and we have a real shot at a Cup. Like we've both said, I think MB also needs to find another scorer although it's a lesser need with Drouin eventually coming back and even Caufield maybe being eligible to join us for a playoff push.

 

Would I trade any one of those 3 guys if the return was just a 2nd round pick and mid-level prospect? Nope. Because you could probably wait til deadline day next year and get a 1st rounder for each of Petry and Tatar at a minimum. But if you get a chance to make a hockey trade that makes you younger and potentially better in the future, then you consider it, especially if you're not able to do what is discussed above and find the extra 2 guys you need to put you in contention right away. Like I said, either commit to winning with your core now or else commit to winning in the future, but you can't be caught in no man's land and have no plan other than to just ride these guys to the fringe of the playoffs and then potentially lose some of them for nothing while watching other ones get older and less effective.

I feel like we are all saying the same thing just in different ways even though for a while we all thought the other was saying something else completely LOL 

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1 minute ago, campabee82 said:

I feel like we are all saying the same thing just in different ways even though for a while we all thought the other was saying something else completely LOL 

Now that’s funny 🤗

I agree with your sentiments that it is a young mans game now with Cap flexibility being important - one only has to look at Chicago rewarding Seabrook, Keith, Toews and Kane with NMC’s and term for loyalty and previous success (albeit Kane is still performing at a high level and Toews is still fairly solid) - don’t think we want to be handcuffed to that degree. 
Taking a large contract like Steve Mason When you have cap room landed  us Armia for next to nothing so that’s a strategy too 

One hopes when you trade assets like Petry, Price,Tatar, Weber that not only are you giving them a chance to Win (when we are clearly not),  but you will get draft picks that will pan out and don’t bust like McCarron , Tinordi, Scherbak etc

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59 minutes ago, ramcharger440 said:

Ah Riley Barber........wait who? as for Hudon looks like that's a wrap for his NHL chances.

I thought I read somewhere that if he played 10 games he would be subject to waivers if he was sent down. I can't be sure if that's the case tho. 

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1 hour ago, ramcharger440 said:

Ah Riley Barber........wait who? as for Hudon looks like that's a wrap for his NHL chances.

   I thought Hudon played ok as a fill-in but who knows if he gets the call again but for sure somebody's going to grab that 4th line job while Byron is out ...everybody is getting a look see  ...Barber is leading the Rocket in points and should easily fit on the 4th line with Cousins and Thompson and/or Weal ...

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12 hours ago, kinot-2 said:

I thought I read somewhere that if he played 10 games he would be subject to waivers if he was sent down. I can't be sure if that's the case tho. 

Yup 10 games or 30 days.  This way he doesnt have to clear waivers again.

Although in all honesty, im not sure he made much of an impression in 9 games. I wouldnt be surprised at all if he's played his last game for the habs. Shame, a couple of years ago he was on of the lone bright spots on that terrible season.  I think playing with Pleks/Gallagher made us think he was better than he was/is.

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41 minutes ago, maas_art said:

Yup 10 games or 30 days.  This way he doesnt have to clear waivers again.

Although in all honesty, im not sure he made much of an impression in 9 games. I wouldnt be surprised at all if he's played his last game for the habs. Shame, a couple of years ago he was on of the lone bright spots on that terrible season.  I think playing with Pleks/Gallagher made us think he was better than he was/is.

Yeah. Hudon seems destined to play in the AHL. I just cannot see him turning it around to the point where he ever sees regular minutes with Montreal. I also imagine his trade value is absolutely zero. I wonder if we walk away from him after this season expires. He'll be a RFA, but I assume we can just not qualify him and make him an UFA.

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20 minutes ago, jennifer_rocket said:

Yeah. Hudon seems destined to play in the AHL. I just cannot see him turning it around to the point where he ever sees regular minutes with Montreal. I also imagine his trade value is absolutely zero. I wonder if we walk away from him after this season expires. He'll be a RFA, but I assume we can just not qualify him and make him an UFA.

You might find that a team that wants AHL scoring would offer up a low-percentage player for him - sort of like how we got Kulak or Olofsson. You're never getting a top end player for him but there's a chance we can move him for a project that may at least have a future on the team. 

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2 hours ago, maas_art said:

Yup 10 games or 30 days.  This way he doesnt have to clear waivers again.

Although in all honesty, im not sure he made much of an impression in 9 games. I wouldnt be surprised at all if he's played his last game for the habs. Shame, a couple of years ago he was on of the lone bright spots on that terrible season.  I think playing with Pleks/Gallagher made us think he was better than he was/is.

So now you're saying we don't have players good enough to play with Hudon? :ph34r:

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FWIW, Michel Bergeron in his column for TVA Sports suggests that the Habs should trade Price and Weber this season. He says it's time for both to go, that both are getting older, and that both have expressed interest in wanting to win a Cup before they're too old, which isn't going to happen here. He suggests Price would waive his NMC to go to the right spot and states that Colorado (a potential Cup favorite outside of goaltending) or Vancouver (an up and coming team close to where Price is from) could be leading destinations for the goalie. Another suggestion on social media has been Pittsburgh, to reunite him with Team Canada teammate Sidney Crosby.

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18 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

FWIW, Michel Bergeron in his column for TVA Sports suggests that the Habs should trade Price and Weber this season. He says it's time for both to go, that both are getting older, and that both have expressed interest in wanting to win a Cup before they're too old, which isn't going to happen here. He suggests Price would waive his NMC to go to the right spot and states that Colorado (a potential Cup favorite outside of goaltending) or Vancouver (an up and coming team close to where Price is from) could be leading destinations for the goalie. Another suggestion on social media has been Pittsburgh, to reunite him with Team Canada teammate Sidney Crosby.

If we trade Price to Colorado hopefully the return will be better than when we traded Roy to Colorado. :lol:

But, in all seriousness, I agree that it may be time to move on from the Carey era. I appreciate the work he's put in here, but I don't see us being Cup contenders with Bergevin at the helm. And if Bergevin gets fired, I kind of expect the new G.M. to want to rebuild anyway.

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1 hour ago, jennifer_rocket said:

If we trade Price to Colorado hopefully the return will be better than when we traded Roy to Colorado. :lol:

But, in all seriousness, I agree that it may be time to move on from the Carey era. I appreciate the work he's put in here, but I don't see us being Cup contenders with Bergevin at the helm. And if Bergevin gets fired, I kind of expect the new G.M. to want to rebuild anyway.

Our window with Price was before his knee injuries, the year he won all the hardware.     Those 2 seasons he was stellar and just hasn't been quite as good since.     He's still one of the top goaltenders in the league, but this roster is not going to get us deep in the playoffs.      I really think management should just admit it's time for a full rebuild and start trading veterans for propects/picks.

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38 minutes ago, HabsAlways said:

Our window with Price was before his knee injuries, the year he won all the hardware.     Those 2 seasons he was stellar and just hasn't been quite as good since.     He's still one of the top goaltenders in the league, but this roster is not going to get us deep in the playoffs.      I really think management should just admit it's time for a full rebuild and start trading veterans for propects/picks.

Agree.  And much like Hasek - who never won a cup in his prime - Price will most likely need a much better team in front of him at this stage to even get a sniff at Lord Stanley.

I hate the idea of moving on from him (and Weber and Petry etc) but the reality is there's too much of a disparity between the ages of our vets and our youth. By the time Suzuki and JK and Poehling and Caufield etc are firing on all cylinders, many of our older players will be ready for retirement. 

Im not saying you need to move all of them (honestly, i dont think you could) but some at least. 

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Now the interesting questions, are 1) who is easier to trade Weber - 7 yr and does not have a ntc Vs Price -7 year higher value and a to be waived ntc 2) who would be the interested parties 3) what value do we get back vs retaining salary 

I find it highly improbable that both could be moved within a one year period as one of them would be needed for continued leadership

my guess is Islanders or Winnipeg depending on Byfuglien could be attracted to Weber  

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