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2019-20 State Of The Habs


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12 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

Hypothetically-speaking, let's say the Habs could do the following:

- Price to Colorado for Grubauer, Byram, and a 2nd.

- Weber to Edmonton for Evan Bouchard and a 1st.

- Tatar and a 3rd to NYI for Oliver Wahlstrom and a 1st.

- Petry and Byron to Florida for Henrik Borgstrom and a 1st.

 

I can live with any of those deals. Not sure the other teams would bite but that's in the ballpark of what i'd expect as a return.

I think if we did all of them we would be under the Cap floor though. Might have to bring Alzner back up.:lol:

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6 hours ago, ChiLla said:

With a defense of Chiarot/Brook, Mete/Fleury, and Scandella/Folin, I'm pretty certain a bottom 5 finish is a very realistic possibility even this season. I've never suggested trading those 4 guys you mentioned though, so let's not do this again. I've said repeatedly that I like the direction of the team and that I think we have good pieces in place already. I don't want this team to lose games deliberately so we get a higher draft pick, which doesn't really happen in pro sports anyway. My point is that it makes sense to consider moving on from a guy like Petry or Tatar while they're still valuable. And I'm not talking about swapping them for future considerations or magic beans but using the Pacioretty deal as a model, i.e. roster player + legit NHL prospect + draft pick to strategically improve the team.

I misread what you were saying the I apologize 

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6 hours ago, HabsAlways said:

 

This is exactly how I feel.    What's the benefit of sneaking into the playoffs this year when the vets we have won't be part of the future anyways?    Our top prospects are Suzuki, JK, Poehling, Caufield, Romanov, Brook ... those guys won't be running this team for another 2-4 years.     Weber/Petry/Price and others will no longer be competitive by then. 

Holding onto our vets right now really only helps up this year and possibly next ... to what end?  to squeak into the playoffs and make it nowhere.    Trading them now gets us assets that would be maturing around the same time our current young core are as well.   Keeping them has us tied to assets that are declining when our young core matures .. and we won't get the same return.

Imagine if we finished bottom 10 and won the lottery.   Imagine Lafreniere - Kotkaniemi - Suzuki as your first line.

Trading for assets that would be maturing around the same time means you're counting on other teams to give up their top prospects that are now already developing, because any "draft" choices would be years behind the ones we are currently developing. 

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8 hours ago, CaptWelly said:

I will say this, I think it's to early still , I think if by the trade deadline we don't have a shot a making the playoffs than you could look at things again. If we did wait at least until then we wouldn't be sending the message of giving up. As for high value , I guess we did great with the Subban trade then! I wonder if Edmonton doesn't make the playoffs or get eliminated in the first round do they trade McDavid or Draisital while the value is high? Here's a thought would you trade McDavid for next years #1 overall if you could either way give up #1 for McDavid?

I see both McDavid and Draisaitl as having much more long-term value than Price and Weber, so... No. I would not trade them if I were Edmonton's GM.

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3 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

Hypothetically-speaking, let's say the Habs could do the following:

- Price to Colorado for Grubauer, Byram, and a 2nd.

- Weber to Edmonton for Evan Bouchard and a 1st.

- Tatar and a 3rd to NYI for Oliver Wahlstrom and a 1st.

- Petry and Byron to Florida for Henrik Borgstrom and a 1st.

Now you've added two blue chip D men prospects, two blue chip forward prospects, three 1st's, and a 2nd. Next year, you could field a line-up that looks like this:

 

Drouin-Domi-Suzuki

Caufield-Kotkaniemi-Gallagher

Lehkonen-Danault-Armia

Poehling-Borgstrom-Wahlstrom

 

Byram-Bouchard

Mete-Fleury

Scandella-Brook

 

Grubauer

Primeau

 

And you would still have the option of adding in Evans, Ylonen, Chiarot, Romanov, and maybe Juulsen somewhere and making further trades with your extra players. You'd also have the option of dealing away the picks you acquired to add more quality. And as a bonus, the roster is largely expansion-draft proof, as I don't believe you'd need to protect any of Kotkaniemi, Caufield, Wahlstrom, Byram, Bouchard, Brook, or Primeau. Would that defence need time to mature? Yes. But this could be a Cup-competitive team by 2022 or 2023 IMO. Personally, I'd prefer doing something like this to sticking it out with what we have.

 

I can't see Edmonton I don't think Edmonton thinks they're that close and Holland is a patient GM or Colorado wanting (especially Colorado ) wanting to do either of those trades for older players when both their current teams are young and giving away current or future 1st. round picks at this point. Also as much as we may like Tatar he's not getting a first and a roster player with just a 3rd added. Tatar was basically the roster throw in on the deal. I like Tatar but I seriously doubt he'd bring that much. Again though any hopefully first round picks will be late round picks not top 5 or even top 10 if traded to a contending team. If someone gets hurt on one of the contenders before the trade deadline and they desperately need someone to fill a spot then maybe you do better. So even if you are considering this approach I would wait until close to the deadline. See where we are then if we are diffidently out 

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2 hours ago, CaptWelly said:

I can't see Edmonton I don't think Edmonton thinks they're that close and Holland is a patient GM or Colorado wanting (especially Colorado ) wanting to do either of those trades for older players when both their current teams are young and giving away current or future 1st. round picks at this point. Also as much as we may like Tatar he's not getting a first and a roster player with just a 3rd added. Tatar was basically the roster throw in on the deal. I like Tatar but I seriously doubt he'd bring that much. Again though any hopefully first round picks will be late round picks not top 5 or even top 10 if traded to a contending team. If someone gets hurt on one of the contenders before the trade deadline and they desperately need someone to fill a spot then maybe you do better. So even if you are considering this approach I would wait until close to the deadline. See where we are then if we are diffidently out 

Just examples, but that's the type of trades I think Bergevin should be looking to make. Even if he makes a couple of them, it would improve our outlook going forward.

In Tatar's case, let's remember that he fetched 1st, 2nd, and 3rd rounders just a couple of years ago. Yes, he didn't fit in in Vegas, but take out that short stint and he's been a very productive player most of his career. He's still a scorer under the age of 30 and on a contract with only a year and half left. Based on some of the trades we've seen in recent years, he's at least worth a 1st and another piece. You look at Ryan Dzingel, who was on an expiring contract and he fetched two 2nd's and Duclair. Tatar is a better player and has the extra year left on his deal. Evander Kane, who is a similar player production-wise to Tatar and who may be tougher but also had more perceived attitude issues fetched a 1st, a 4th, and a prospect. Paul Stastny, who was an older and much less productive player than Tatar, also got a 1st, 4th, and prospect. Ryan Hartman, another inferior player, got a 1st, 4th, and prospect. Rick Nash, who was well past prime at the time of his deadline trade two years ago and on an expiring deal, fetched a 1st, 7th, and 3 other players. Derick Brassard yielded essentially a 1st and a recent 2nd round goalie prospect. So to me, the market suggests Tatar has value of a 1st rounder and more.

Like you said, I have no idea about whether a team will bite or not, but in today's NHL, you don't have a big window to win with your group when you get a chance. The salary cap prevents you from retaining all your own players long-term, and players are becoming dominant earlier in their careers. Now you have 20 and 22 year-olds leading their teams in production while 30 year-olds can have trouble finding work because they can't keep up with the speed of the game. It's a younger man's game than it used to be 20 or 30 years ago. So for a team like Colorado or Edmonton, they can't necessarily wait another 2-3 years to make their move. If they think they have a legit shot this year, they may want to go in. If we were a bit closer, I'd be all for sacrificing futures to make a run too, but we're not.

As for timing, yes, I think we can wait til the trade deadline. I'd make every attempt to move Weber this year while his value is as high as it's been. With Petry and Tatar, you have the option of dealing this season, in the off-season or at next year's deadline if we're out. But I don't see either guy re-signing here, so I think you want to get some value back for them and I'd be inclined to believe their trade values would be higher with 1.5 years left on their deals than with only half a season left.

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14 minutes ago, CANADIENS27 said:

A goal Price should have had and no rebound control on the gamewinner.  

 

 

I didn't see the overtime but what really cost them the game was the lucky bounce for the tieing goal. I mean no one could have foresaw the puck going of a D man's skate bouncing off the end boards and straight back to the Pens player on the other side of the net.

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3 minutes ago, campabee82 said:

I didn't see the overtime but what really cost them the game was the lucky bounce for the tieing goal. I mean no one could have foresaw the puck going of a D man's skate bouncing off the end boards and straight back to the Pens player on the other side of the net.

And one of our defensemen got beat on that play.  

 

 

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1 hour ago, CANADIENS27 said:

A goal Price should have had and no rebound control on the gamewinner.  

 

 

Ok just saw the replay of the game winner not sure how you can say that was bad rebound control. He stopped the puck then was dragged out of position by the skate of the Pens player that's a missed goalie interference call not bad rebound control. 

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17 hours ago, CaptWelly said:

I can't see Edmonton I don't think Edmonton thinks they're that close and Holland is a patient GM or Colorado wanting (especially Colorado ) wanting to do either of those trades for older players when both their current teams are young and giving away current or future 1st. round picks at this point. Also as much as we may like Tatar he's not getting a first and a roster player with just a 3rd added. Tatar was basically the roster throw in on the deal. I like Tatar but I seriously doubt he'd bring that much. Again though any hopefully first round picks will be late round picks not top 5 or even top 10 if traded to a contending team. If someone gets hurt on one of the contenders before the trade deadline and they desperately need someone to fill a spot then maybe you do better. So even if you are considering this approach I would wait until close to the deadline. See where we are then if we are diffidently out 

You're part of this Welly...with your fine knowledge...

Chicago and MB I swear would not know the story of Salome and the 7 veils with the head of the Baptist on the way if it fell on them...Let's just get some players who fill the slot of Montreal's vision of the self same story...where it still works...

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For many reasons already stated, I think trying to tank is a mistake. I'm also not sold on selling off our veterans. You need those guys to mentor your youth.

The more I think about it, we have been swimming in mediocracy for so long either because of our drafting or our development of players or maybe both. When I look at other teams around the league that are contenders they all have guys that are key pieces to their team that were drafted either late in the first round or later. Take Tampa for example. Nikita Kucherov wasn't drafted until the second round while Brayden Point was drafted in the third round. Or what about Pittsburgh? Jake Guentzel was a third round pick.

Now let's take a look at our selections of the last decade

Back in 2009 we selected Louis Leblanc at pick 18. Here are some guys after that pick: Chris Kreider immediately after at 19, Marcuss Johansson at 24 or, better yet still, Ryan O'Reilly at pick 33.

In 2010 we selected Jarred Tinordi at pick 22. After him: Kuznetzov at 26, Brock Nelson at 30 or Justin Faulk at 37.

In 2011 we selected Nathan Beaulieu at pick 17. And after him, well...among others, the most notable is the aforementioned Nikita Kucherov.

In 2012 at third overall we selected Galchenyuk. We all know how that worked out although we do have Domi now as a result.

In 2013 we selected McCarron at pick 25. Outside of the top 9 that seems to be a bit of a weak draft year, however, as mentioned above, Guenztel was pick at the 77 spot. He has 9 less points than Drouin (3rd) in 100 less games.

In 2014 we selected Nikita Scherbak at 26. I was excited for this guy after seeing his WHL numbers but clearly he was a bust. Again, that was the year that Point was selected at number 79.

I'll do one more. In 2015 we selected Noah Juulsen with the 26th pick. Selected after him with the 35th pick was Sebastian Aho. Remember him?

Now I know hind sight is always 20/20 and I know more draftees are busts rather than stars but our record is pathetic. The only real diamond in the rough we have is Brendan Gallagher. So, what does this speak to? Are we just really bad at drafting or, if not, our ability to develop players is just absolute garbage.

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3 minutes ago, MuddyWaterMoose said:

For many reasons already stated, I think trying to tank is a mistake. I'm also not sold on selling off our veterans. You need those guys to mentor your youth.

The more I think about it, we have been swimming in mediocracy for so long either because of our drafting or our development of players or maybe both. When I look at other teams around the league that are contenders they all have guys that are key pieces to their team that were drafted either late in the first round or later. Take Tampa for example. Nikita Kucherov wasn't drafted until the second round while Brayden Point was drafted in the third round. Or what about Pittsburgh? Jake Guentzel was a third round pick.

Now let's take a look at our selections of the last decade

Back in 2009 we selected Louis Leblanc at pick 18. Here are some guys after that pick: Chris Kreider immediately after at 19, Marcuss Johansson at 24 or, better yet still, Ryan O'Reilly at pick 33.

In 2010 we selected Jarred Tinordi at pick 22. After him: Kuznetzov at 26, Brock Nelson at 30 or Justin Faulk at 37.

In 2011 we selected Nathan Beaulieu at pick 17. And after him, well...among others, the most notable is the aforementioned Nikita Kucherov.

In 2012 at third overall we selected Galchenyuk. We all know how that worked out although we do have Domi now as a result.

In 2013 we selected McCarron at pick 25. Outside of the top 9 that seems to be a bit of a weak draft year, however, as mentioned above, Guenztel was pick at the 77 spot. He has 9 less points than Drouin (3rd) in 100 less games.

In 2014 we selected Nikita Scherbak at 26. I was excited for this guy after seeing his WHL numbers but clearly he was a bust. Again, that was the year that Point was selected at number 79.

I'll do one more. In 2015 we selected Noah Juulsen with the 26th pick. Selected after him with the 35th pick was Sebastian Aho. Remember him?

Now I know hind sight is always 20/20 and I know more draftees are busts rather than stars but our record is pathetic. The only real diamond in the rough we have is Brendan Gallagher. So, what does this speak to? Are we just really bad at drafting or, if not, our ability to develop players is just absolute garbage.

that last part....for too many years we had pathetic coaching on the farm i feel good about what we have now every player that has come up has played well most are not ready yet but there is a marked improvement from before.another issue is the coaches and gm's in MTL are too scared of losing so we don't always feed the young guys into the lineup the right way although KK and Suzuki and Cale have been brought in pretty well so far.

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12 hours ago, MuddyWaterMoose said:

For many reasons already stated, I think trying to tank is a mistake. I'm also not sold on selling off our veterans. You need those guys to mentor your youth.

The more I think about it, we have been swimming in mediocracy for so long either because of our drafting or our development of players or maybe both. When I look at other teams around the league that are contenders they all have guys that are key pieces to their team that were drafted either late in the first round or later. Take Tampa for example. Nikita Kucherov wasn't drafted until the second round while Brayden Point was drafted in the third round. Or what about Pittsburgh? Jake Guentzel was a third round pick.

Now let's take a look at our selections of the last decade

Back in 2009 we selected Louis Leblanc at pick 18. Here are some guys after that pick: Chris Kreider immediately after at 19, Marcuss Johansson at 24 or, better yet still, Ryan O'Reilly at pick 33.

In 2010 we selected Jarred Tinordi at pick 22. After him: Kuznetzov at 26, Brock Nelson at 30 or Justin Faulk at 37.

In 2011 we selected Nathan Beaulieu at pick 17. And after him, well...among others, the most notable is the aforementioned Nikita Kucherov.

In 2012 at third overall we selected Galchenyuk. We all know how that worked out although we do have Domi now as a result.

In 2013 we selected McCarron at pick 25. Outside of the top 9 that seems to be a bit of a weak draft year, however, as mentioned above, Guenztel was pick at the 77 spot. He has 9 less points than Drouin (3rd) in 100 less games.

In 2014 we selected Nikita Scherbak at 26. I was excited for this guy after seeing his WHL numbers but clearly he was a bust. Again, that was the year that Point was selected at number 79.

I'll do one more. In 2015 we selected Noah Juulsen with the 26th pick. Selected after him with the 35th pick was Sebastian Aho. Remember him?

Now I know hind sight is always 20/20 and I know more draftees are busts rather than stars but our record is pathetic. The only real diamond in the rough we have is Brendan Gallagher. So, what does this speak to? Are we just really bad at drafting or, if not, our ability to develop players is just absolute garbage.

Development at the AHL level has been poor, and the Habs have burned a lot of their draft picks by poor management even at the NHL level... wen you prioritize playing Murray and Bouillon over Beaulieu and Tinordi and Pateryn or Desharnais over Eller and Galchenyuk or the likes of Moen and Dwight King and Blunden over youngsters like Andrighetto or Hudon or so on, then yeah, those younger players are not going to get the experience necessary to be good. Even Pacioretty got stuck in the bottom 6 when he first came up and didn't do well. He said his confidence was shattered and that the best thing for him was to go back to the AHL and be a 1st line player there under Cunneyworth. When he got a call up, he was brought back to fill in with Gomez and Gionta in the top 6 and he flourished. So I'll maintain that when you have a scoring forward like Suzuki or Kotkaniemi or Caufield, you can't bring them up and put them on the 3rd or 4th line and expect them to produce. Suzuki's getting top 6 minutes now and doing well, while JK is still playing bottom 6 with guys like Weal and Cousins. Easy to see why he's not doing as well as when he started the year with Drouin and Armia.

As far as the draft goes, every team will be able to pick out prospects they passed over who flourished elsewhere. Nik Lidstrom was a late pick. Gallagher like you mentioned. Halak and Cayden Primeau were both late rounders too. Such a small percentage of guys picked after the 3rd round ever make the NHL, let alone become quality players or stars, and even after the 1st round, the percentage of regular NHLers is something like 10-15%. A good draft is where you hit on 2 solid players who are with you long-term. A great draft is like 2007, where Timmins hit on McDonaugh, Subban, and Pacioretty in the same year, as well as Yannick Weber to a lesser extent or 1984 when the Habs drafted Svoboda, Corson, Roy, and Richer.

So if I look at the drafts we've had, I don't think they're as horrible as you made out. 2013 for example saw us draft McCarron in the 1st and he has been a bit of a bust. I didn't like the pick when it was made, but supposedly, MB was the one pushing for bigger tougher players. DLR, even though he isn't great, is a regular NHLer though, and Lehkonen was a steak in the 2nd round, while Andrighetto played over 200 games. So you have 3 guys who have managed to play over 200 games in the NHL, and that's not terrible considering we had late round picks. From 2015, Juulsen's career has been derailed by concussions, but he seems like he was a decent choice, while Vejdemo is now also in the NHL. From 2016, you have both Sergachev and Mete who have become regular NHLers, so that's considered to be a pretty good draft by many. From 2017, you already have Poehling, Primeau, and Fleury who have sniffed the big leagues and maybe Brook and Ikonen who could have NHL careers down the line. From 2018, Kotkaniemi is here and Ylonen and Romanov have shown pretty good promise to make it. All in all, I think people have expectations for the draft that are above what is realistic. The goal of any draft should be to hit on your 1st rounder and to find one other solid NHLer somewhere else. When you have a top 10 pick, then you need to be aiming for a star-caliber player, and I think TT has done a decent job of that too... Price was a great pick. Galchenyuk, while disliked by some, was one of the best players from his draft year. Sergachev was a good choice at #9, and Kotkaniemi has been decent at #3 too. When you pick in the late teens or 20's, it becomes much less likely to find a game-changing player, which is why if you're not going to win a Cup this year, you may as well get the best draft pick you can.

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2 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

As far as the draft goes, every team will be able to pick out prospects they passed over who flourished elsewhere. Nik Lidstrom was a late pick. Gallagher like you mentioned. Halak and Cayden Primeau were both late rounders too. Such a small percentage of guys picked after the 3rd round ever make the NHL, let alone become quality players or stars, and even after the 1st round, the percentage of regular NHLers is something like 10-15%. A good draft is where you hit on 2 solid players who are with you long-term. A great draft is like 2007, where Timmins hit on McDonaugh, Subban, and Pacioretty in the same year, as well as Yannick Weber to a lesser extent or 1984 when the Habs drafted Svoboda, Corson, Roy, and Richer.

So if I look at the drafts we've had, I don't think they're as horrible as you made out. 2013 for example saw us draft McCarron in the 1st and he has been a bit of a bust. I didn't like the pick when it was made, but supposedly, MB was the one pushing for bigger tougher players. DLR, even though he isn't great, is a regular NHLer though, and Lehkonen was a steak in the 2nd round, while Andrighetto played over 200 games. So you have 3 guys who have managed to play over 200 games in the NHL, and that's not terrible considering we had late round picks. From 2015, Juulsen's career has been derailed by concussions, but he seems like he was a decent choice, while Vejdemo is now also in the NHL. From 2016, you have both Sergachev and Mete who have become regular NHLers, so that's considered to be a pretty good draft by many. From 2017, you already have Poehling, Primeau, and Fleury who have sniffed the big leagues and maybe Brook and Ikonen who could have NHL careers down the line. From 2018, Kotkaniemi is here and Ylonen and Romanov have shown pretty good promise to make it. All in all, I think people have expectations for the draft that are above what is realistic. The goal of any draft should be to hit on your 1st rounder and to find one other solid NHLer somewhere else. When you have a top 10 pick, then you need to be aiming for a star-caliber player, and I think TT has done a decent job of that too... Price was a great pick. Galchenyuk, while disliked by some, was one of the best players from his draft year. Sergachev was a good choice at #9, and Kotkaniemi has been decent at #3 too. When you pick in the late teens or 20's, it becomes much less likely to find a game-changing player, which is why if you're not going to win a Cup this year, you may as well get the best draft pick you can.

This.  

The problem with looking back on the draft & saying "we suck" is that its you vs. 30 other teams. Its not like one team nabs all the good players. It seems like we "missed out" on a lot of guys but in reality every team misses out on more stars than they get, and when you look at your drafting record vs 30 other teams of course it will look bad.  Look at our record vs. pretty near every other team over the past 5-8 years and we look pretty decent.  Not the best in the league but certainly not close to the worst. 

 

I also believe that Timmins' often gets vetoed by MB, especially in the later rounds.  We'll never know for sure but there's a reason he seems to do better as the draft goes on.  Maybe thats just MB letting him "go for it" with riskier moves but either way it seems like we go for the 'safe bet' a lot of time in the first round or two (except when we have multiple picks in the 2nd) 

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Yeah. I don't have any issue with our drafting. There will always be players we can look back on and say, "Ah darn, only if we had taken that guy instead of this guy!" That doesn't mean we can't keep improving our drafting, but I don't think it's been bad.

I do, however, find our development has been pretty disappointing. I'm hoping this has been improved now. I guess we'll have to wait and see. The years of Lefebvre down on the farm seemed pretty brutal. Glad that guy's gone!

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2 hours ago, jennifer_rocket said:

I do, however, find our development has been pretty disappointing. I'm hoping this has been improved now. I guess we'll have to wait and see. The years of Lefebvre down on the farm seemed pretty brutal. Glad that guy's gone!

100%.

Bouchard seems to be a massive upgrade (although we need to see how players respond and develop over a longer time period to be certain of this).  While I dont believe guys like  McCarron, or Scherbek or Tinordi or Beaulieu would have turned into stars or anything, I do think that with a better foundation all of them could have been better - or at least NHL players (who all except Beau seem unlikely to ever be).

We finally have a coach in the minors who seems to understand that development is key and helping the players get better in their respective roles is the most important thing he can do down there. 

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all in all the art of draft picking isn't an exact science unless it's basically a top 5 ...so teams have to draft either the best player available or address the team's immediate needs ...Montreal has addressed their almost completely empty  center position and the LHD issues over the last couple of years so from that standpoint I don't have a problem with how the team has been drafting ...on the trade front it's difficult to argue acquisitions like Suzuki and Tatar , Danault and the 2nd pick in 2018 which turned out to be Romanov or the Galchenyuk for Domi ...while Subban spins his wheels  Weber continues to be an asset ...the team obviously needs a game-breaker but they hardly never come up for grabs so developing these young men is the key especially in a cap-sensitive NHL ...I wouldn't have been happy paying a guy like Panarin the money he got ...I'd rather keep the Gallaghers and Domis and pay them fair market value down the road as they won't be commanding ridiculous sky-high money and term . The cap isn't going to increase that much so I see Montreal positioned decently well with some young guys still doing  bridge contracts in 2 or 3 years . In 2 years Montreal has gone from a prospect ranking in the 20s to a top 5 or 6 team . Bouchard is very much a key to Montreal's future .

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5 hours ago, maas_art said:

This.  

The problem with looking back on the draft & saying "we suck" is that its you vs. 30 other teams. Its not like one team nabs all the good players. It seems like we "missed out" on a lot of guys but in reality every team misses out on more stars than they get, and when you look at your drafting record vs 30 other teams of course it will look bad.  Look at our record vs. pretty near every other team over the past 5-8 years and we look pretty decent.  Not the best in the league but certainly not close to the worst. 

 

I also believe that Timmins' often gets vetoed by MB, especially in the later rounds.  We'll never know for sure but there's a reason he seems to do better as the draft goes on.  Maybe thats just MB letting him "go for it" with riskier moves but either way it seems like we go for the 'safe bet' a lot of time in the first round or two (except when we have multiple picks in the 2nd) 

Timmins and Bergevin definitely don't agree all the time. Timmins has actually done interviews where he's highlighted some of the discrepancies and he's on record stating that when MB took over, he really wanted to look at drafting centers and drafting size. He made it clear that McCarron was a Bergevin choice, and while Timmins didn't say he hated the pick, he did say he had another player in mind. Timmins has also gone on record stating the Habs have looked to try and add Quebecers in later rounds if they can, and he's on record saying that he was disappointed the team traded away the two 2nd's for Eller and that he would have selected Alex Debrincat and Sam Girard with those choices. One can say that's all hindsight, except that Timmins was on record saying that before either guy really broke into the NHL.

The pattern suggests that Timmins likes guys who are faster and more skilled and that if anything he's been vetoed in favor of guys with size. That said, I think Bergevin has come around on that a bit as he's been here, so that's a positive going forward.

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