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2019-20 State Of The Habs


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You know what pisses me off about the habs since Julien has arrived, we take our young skilled players are start them on the 4th line with plugs.  How can a player like Poehling (for example) even develop playing with players like Thompson, Weal and Cousins.  The kid has more hits than shots this year, we don't need hits we need a person to put the puck in the net.  Put a young kid on the second or third line to give them even a remote chance.  I have never seen any other team put their talented players on the 4th line, give the kids a chance to shine they may very well surprise you. 

 

It seems to me we completely ruin a player development by under playing them, or playing them with plugs.  What can a 4th line player possibly teach any first round draft pick?  Maybe how to work hard, but they generally play 4th line due to having less talent, worse skating, worse shooting, poor defensive coverage so we are teaching our young players how to be a plug?

 

 

 

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The "trade Carey" debate is an interesting one. It's so difficult to say if Carey would ever waive that NMC and accept a trade to another NHL team. As long as there's a market for SOME return in a trade, and it is a realistic possibility (debatable), I would be disappointed to watch Carey be swept up by Seattle. I am of the opinion that the future success of this team will not rely on Carey Price or Shea Weber, and that we may not be able to realize that success before moving on from both players. However, with Bergevin behind the helm, I just don't see it happening anytime soon.

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1 hour ago, jennifer_rocket said:

The "trade Carey" debate is an interesting one. It's so difficult to say if Carey would ever waive that NMC and accept a trade to another NHL team. As long as there's a market for SOME return in a trade, and it is a realistic possibility (debatable), I would be disappointed to watch Carey be swept up by Seattle. I am of the opinion that the future success of this team will not rely on Carey Price or Shea Weber, and that we may not be able to realize that success before moving on from both players. However, with Bergevin behind the helm, I just don't see it happening anytime soon.

Agree on all points.

I do think Carey would waive the NMC if he went to a powerhouse but then I cant see any team like that needing him and/or being able to pay him.  The only teams likely to want him would be those who have no superstars & can afford his salary... so 

Like you, id rather not lose him to expansion.  If we trade him & get assets, fine but I do think he'll rebound & I do think he'll be a good goalie. Maybe not a $10.5m goalie but even thats not out of the realm of possibility. 

 

 

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5 minutes ago, maas_art said:

Agree on all points.

I do think Carey would waive the NMC if he went to a powerhouse but then I cant see any team like that needing him and/or being able to pay him.  The only teams likely to want him would be those who have no superstars & can afford his salary... so 

Like you, id rather not lose him to expansion.  If we trade him & get assets, fine but I do think he'll rebound & I do think he'll be a good goalie. Maybe not a $10.5m goalie but even thats not out of the realm of possibility. 

I feel like he COULD rebound. But... We need to improve our D for that to happen. Shea and Petry (both useful players now) are getting older and I don't expect them to contribute at a high level for Montreal in the near future. I don't really see any young defenders in our system ready to take over either. Mete, Fleury, Juulsen, Brook, Romanov... Sure. All potential contributors in Montreal in the future, but none are proven top-two options and we shouldn't be planning our team around that actually happening. Not really sure how we get to the next level without resetting and moving some of our more cost-heavy assets. If possible.

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17 hours ago, campabee82 said:

The only player on that list that worries me about trading is Price. I know he is not his 2013-14 self but we still don't know if Primeau is an NHL quality starter or not. He has played well in his 2 starts but 2 starts is not 40-60+ both  McNiven and Lindgren were thought to be predecessors to Price and neither of them is more than an NHL backup or AHL tandem goalie. How many others over the years were also thought to be the next one? Until Primeau gets 25 starts and has 15+ wins I would rather keep Price

I said maybe Price because

1. I don't like trading players when their value is low and his is right now

2. I think Price can likely play better than what he has this year and still be a decent goalie for another 3-4 years, so I feel less of a rush to trade him than others like Weber (who is a bit older and has had serious injuries already) and Petry/Tatar (whose contracts expire in 1.5 years).

 

7 hours ago, HabsAlways said:

Back in June, Carey said :

“A lot of guys you see go through their whole careers and not get an opportunity (to win a Stanley Cup),” Price told Basu. “I don’t want to be one of those guys.”

I can see him asking to be traded given how this is playing out.   At this point he's definitely not on a team bound for the finals this year, and doubtful he will be on one with the Habs for another 2-3.   

I don't think Price would veto a trade. His wife is American, if I recall, so she may not be against going to the States, and he himself may be okay with going further West and closer to home. Would someone take his contract? I think so. Would we need to retain some salary? Maybe. Maybe that improves the return too. I still think he can fetch a 1st or 2nd rounder and a blue chip prospect. One example I gave would be Price to Colorado for Grubauer (as a salary dump since they wouldn't need him any longer), Byram, and a 2nd. Maybe Vancouver would have interest, although they may be less willing to give up a 1st or a young blue chip player. Calgary? Chicago? The Islanders? The Pens? Crosby and Price are Olympic buddies and he's vouched for him in the past, plus they have the Jacques Martin connection. The Caps? Holtby's possibly on his way out in Washington after this year, in all likelihood and they're an older team that needs to win now. Buffalo? Columbus? Edmonton? I think there are teams that would love to add him to their line-up, and we have a lot of precedent for goalies maintaining form later in their careers after a change of scenery... Roy is a prime example. Luongo. Belfour. Joseph. Marc-Andre Fleury. I think teams will see Price as being an elite goalie on a team that gives up a decent number of scoring chances and that is having an off-year. He rebounded last year after an off-year three seasons ago, and like I said, I wonder how much of Price's bad play is in his head and how much is related to fatigue and having kids and so on. As I posted as well, his performance in games where he's rested is well above his performance in games within 48 hours of a previous start.

As for the ED, there is a zero percent chance we lose him. We don't have to protect Primeau and we're not protecting Lindgren over Price.

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31 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

I don't think Price would veto a trade. His wife is American, if I recall, so she may not be against going to the States, and he himself may be okay with going further West and closer to home. Would someone take his contract? I think so.

Washington state IIRC.   They live in Kelowna in the offseason though so I could see major appeal (from both) to be west in some capacity.   Seattle, Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton - even Cali or LV - are all pretty short flights here to the interior of BC.


 

33 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

As for the ED, there is a zero percent chance we lose him. We don't have to protect Primeau and we're not protecting Lindgren over Price.

We certainly wont lose him if we dont want to.  I think some people are suggesting we should expose him on purpose to get out from the contract, but that seems pretty pointless. He's still an asset.

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59 minutes ago, maas_art said:

Washington state IIRC.   They live in Kelowna in the offseason though so I could see major appeal (from both) to be west in some capacity.   Seattle, Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton - even Cali or LV - are all pretty short flights here to the interior of BC.


 

We certainly wont lose him if we dont want to.  I think some people are suggesting we should expose him on purpose to get out from the contract, but that seems pretty pointless. He's still an asset.

are we allowed not to protect him, given the NMC? i thought we had to

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29 minutes ago, habsisme said:

are we allowed not to protect him, given the NMC? i thought we had to

We have to protect him unless he agrees to waive it, like with what happened with Fleury.

Some players will be like "no way, you gave me a NMC" but others definitely feel the sting of "they dont want me?" and agree to waive the NMC so that they can go to a team that apparently wants them more. 

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1 hour ago, maas_art said:

We have to protect him unless he agrees to waive it, like with what happened with Fleury.

Some players will be like "no way, you gave me a NMC" but others definitely feel the sting of "they dont want me?" and agree to waive the NMC so that they can go to a team that apparently wants them more. 

Yes, and Seattle is pretty darn close to "home" for Price, so he may certainly be okay with going there. I'd guess he might hesitate a bit about their Cup chances, given his statements about wanting to win now while he still can, but you'd have to figure Vegas' ability to become competitive very quickly, use their cap space, and attract free agents has got to help Price believe he could have as good a chance there as here.

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Poehling has never been a prolific scorer on any level ..I see him as a 3rd liner with a bit of jam and a decent player defensively . You can't say Suzuki is languishing on the 3rd or 4th lines and that's because he has lots of offensive capabilities and is a decent defensive player as well as getting his share of PP and PK time . You can't say Fleury hasn't been given the opportunity to develop even if it is on the 3rd pairing . Even Vejdemo is getting a look . All rookies at different levels of development . Next year Romanov and maybe Caufield . My suspicion is this team will undergo some major changes either before trade deadline or at the draft next year . Whether Price , Weber , Petry or Tatar are still here is the big question . I'm pretty sure room will be created with Thompson , Barber , Cousins as almost certain subtractions .Either way and no matter what Bergevin and Julien will be criticized .

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1 hour ago, arpem-can said:

 . My suspicion is this team will undergo some major changes either before trade deadline or at the draft next year .

And the vicious cycle of mediocrity will continue . A lot of young prospects , some will make it , some won't ,  no real super star  = an average to below average team

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16 hours ago, maas_art said:

Washington state IIRC.   They live in Kelowna in the offseason though so I could see major appeal (from both) to be west in some capacity.   Seattle, Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton - even Cali or LV - are all pretty short flights here to the interior of BC.

We certainly wont lose him if we dont want to.  I think some people are suggesting we should expose him on purpose to get out from the contract, but that seems pretty pointless. He's still an asset.

Is Carey's wife from Washington state? I'm pretty sure she is.

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39 minutes ago, jennifer_rocket said:

Oh sorry sorry. :lol: I thought the consensus was that she was American (obviously), but we hadn't determined from where.

Oh there's no need to apologize, i was just confused because you quoted my exact post where i said it. Haha.   

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