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2019-20 State Of The Habs


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I am always trying to be optimistic when it comes to the Habs. I know we are a better team than what the standings indicate. We have a few guys out with injuries and some not playing up to their potential or being used in the wrong capacity. However that is no excuse for our location in the standings and a lot of the games over the course of both losing streaks have come down to 1 goal. That said, even I am having a hard t8me believing we can turn this around. We basically need 27 wins in our last 38 games meaning we can only afford 8 losses over the course of 2.5 months of hockey so what is the solution? Do we make a big trade and bring up Primeau and play a tandem of Price and Primeau hoping we get enough points to make it in or do we just throw in the towel and move on from this season? Personally I see the value in doing both however both is not an option. So I say there is no time like the present, let's go big or go home! Let's try landing the star power that puts us in the best position to make the playoffs and if things don't turn around and we are more than say 7 points out the week of the deadline then we start selling off UFA's within 1.5 years of their contracts expire i.e. Petry, Tatar, Danault, Byron. Get what we can and move forward

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1 hour ago, campabee82 said:

So I say there is no time like the present, let's go big or go home! Let's try landing the star power that puts us in the best position to make the playoffs and if things don't turn around and we are more than say 7 points out the week of the deadline then we start selling off UFA's within 1.5 years of their contracts expire i.e. Petry, Tatar, Danault, Byron. Get what we can and move forward

The problem is that like 28 teams still believe they can/will make the playoffs. None of them are giving you a star player unless you are vastly overpaying for them.

IMHO you got to 'go for it' with what you've got.  If they cant turn it around then you sell assets.   I wouldnt make trades for reinforcements right now. 

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 Maybe it's time to sit back and view this from a distance . As fans , most thought the Habs would be a tad better than last year or at least the same which would have the solidly in wild card territory . That was before 4 of the top 9 forwards went out . Drouin was leading the team in points and Armia was having a career year .Expectations were that JK would steadily improve and not suffer the sophomore jinx  . The bright spot in this season is the emergence of Suzuki and to a lesser degree Fleury . Poehling hasn't been steady enough but he too was injured early on and is still trying to find his way. It now looks like our little engine Gallagher will stay out for awhile again . What was supposed to be a solid 4th line that has included the likes Thompson , Weal. Cousins , Weise , Vejdemo and (a buried in the AHL) Hudon  has been asked to play a more creative role than they're capable of . Price has been terrible by his standards albeit hung out to dry every night and so we have the boiling cauldron of mediocrity/ failure that we are now witnessing . Changes certainly will be on the way but this is a proud group of players who don't like the losing streak any more than we do . These are the facts. The team is badly depleted but it's not for not giving 100% ...I see them busting it every game . To the fans at the game ...kudos for not booing a team that is struggling for very obvious reasons . Most seem to understand this .

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11 minutes ago, maas_art said:

The problem is that like 28 teams still believe they can/will make the playoffs. None of them are giving you a star player unless you are vastly overpaying for them.

IMHO you got to 'go for it' with what you've got.  If they cant turn it around then you sell assets.   I wouldnt make trades for reinforcements right now. 

agreed except for the Danault part...

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2 hours ago, campabee82 said:

 Let's try landing the star power that puts us in the best position to make the playoffs and if things don't turn around and we are more than say 7 points out the week of the deadline then we start selling off UFA's within 1.5 years of their contracts expire i.e. Petry, Tatar, Danault, Byron. Get what we can and move forward

Any "star power" we get right now to attempt to get us into the playoffs will mortgage the future, especially since teams will take advantage of Bergevin's desperation.    And given we need roughly 27 wins ... its all but assured we are NOT making the playoffs.     And this is exactly my fear ... that MB panics, trades good young prospects like Suzuki, JK, Romanov, Caufield, Primeau, Poehling for a high end talent and we still miss the playoffs by 2-4 pts ... and have no damaged our future going forward.     Its never a good idea to try and make a trade to save a season as bad as this one from a position of weakness.   You think MB has made some bad trades before?  How would you feel if he traded 3 good prospects and a top pick for an aging Forward and D, and we still miss the playoffs?

There's really only two options left ... stay the course, make no moves and hope we're better next year and that we get a decent pick in the 1st round this summer.    Or MB acknowledges this roster is simply never going to get anywhere and trade off as many veterans for picks/prospects that he can in order to shore up the future.    Price, Weber, Tatar, Petry should all fetch at least something decent to a cup contender or team pushing to make the playoffs.      

And yes, that means the roster gets worse in the interim.   You start losing more.   It will be painful to watch.    But the end game is a top 5 pick this summer, and if we suck bad enough maybe good odds of getting the 1st overall.   You're not asking the players to try to lose, you're asking them to do their best till the talent matures.   

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I would dump Danault first out of any of our players - he is probably the most replaceable since he doesn’t score. I’m assuming Weber and Price aren’t going anywhere due to their contracts 

it would take a lot for me to dump Petry - first rounder or a couple of 2nd round picks minimum - same with Tatar since both at least can score with half decent shot velocity and accuracy 

Beyond Gallagher- heart and soul of the team and Armia, I don’t think anyone wants any of our veterans for a playoff push 

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Other than Lafreniere, would anyone in the top 5-8 in the 2020 draft have an impact next year? Seems to be lots of talk about Byfield (big productive center) but I haven’t seen him play, as he didn’t get much action in the wjc. 
 

I just don’t see us being even slightly competitive for the next 3 seasons and by that time who knows what our roster will look like with all the aging vets. Doubt any decent FA will be coming our way either 

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1 minute ago, booboo_mtl said:

Other than Lafreniere, would anyone in the top 5-8 in the 2020 draft have an impact next year? Seems to be lots of talk about Byfield (big productive center) but I haven’t seen him play, as he didn’t get much action in the wjc. 
 

I just don’t see us being even slightly competitive for the next 3 seasons and by that time who knows what our roster will look like with all the aging vets. Doubt any decent FA will be coming our way either 

I've already looked at the UFA crop for 2021 when a lot of our own guys become RFA/UFA ... and its bleak.

The only real option I see is a fire sale this year and load up on as many picks for this years draft and next years.    The whole notion that "all you have to do is make the playoffs and anything can happen" is fundamentally flawed.    And this is the concept MB is operating under, he said it himself in a presser .. forget when.     When you're operating under the assumption you just need to make the playoffs ... then hope factors out of your control line up to let you advance further, you're relying on luck.   Good teams make their own luck.  

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26 minutes ago, claremont said:

I would dump Danault first out of any of our players - he is probably the most replaceable since he doesn’t score. I’m assuming Weber and Price aren’t going anywhere due to their contracts 

it would take a lot for me to dump Petry - first rounder or a couple of 2nd round picks minimum - same with Tatar since both at least can score with half decent shot velocity and accuracy 

Beyond Gallagher- heart and soul of the team and Armia, I don’t think anyone wants any of our veterans for a playoff push 

I wouldn't dump Danault. No, he is not a prolific scorer, and we absolutely need to find scoring centers who can do more in the top 6 than he can. But, he's a very good two-way player. He's very efficient defensively and he can also put up 40-50 points doing it. We're not talking about a Nate Thompson who can't score and we're not talking about a David Desharnais who can't play defence and needs to be babied in terms of assignments. Danault is a guy you can throw out in any situation, and he's a guy who shows up with an effort just about every night. To boot, he's one of the few French players of quality we've had in the organization in recent years.

The team is going to need to keep a few veterans around if we plan to aim for a Cup run in 2021 or 2022. Danault staying here makes sense. In 2021, he'll be 28, so it wouldn't be unreasonable to keep him as a free agent. Conversely, Petry will be 34 and Tatar 31. How many years are those two going to be looking for on potentially their last big contracts? My guess is that Petry will want 3-4 years and Tatar 4-5 on their deals. I'd much rather keep Danault on a 5-6 year deal than Tatar for a year or two less but being 3 years older. The aim of assessing whether to trade a player now is not based on what he brings to the table in 2020, it's about thinking what he's going to give us in 2 years or longer. We're not winning a Cup this year or next year, so Petry's skating or Weber's shot or Tatar's goal-scoring now is largely irrelevant to whether we should keep them. If anything, we should be trying to trade players whose value is high now and whereby it is likely to drop over the next two seasons. Petry, Weber, and Tatar are at the head of that class.

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34 minutes ago, claremont said:

I would dump Danault first out of any of our players - he is probably the most replaceable since he doesn’t score. I’m assuming Weber and Price aren’t going anywhere due to their contracts 

it would take a lot for me to dump Petry - first rounder or a couple of 2nd round picks minimum - same with Tatar since both at least can score with half decent shot velocity and accuracy 

Beyond Gallagher- heart and soul of the team and Armia, I don’t think anyone wants any of our veterans for a playoff push 

 geez I guess we can agree to disagree on Danault ..considered one of the better defensive forwards in the game and on pace for a career goal and points totals …+12 ( this year )  ..I think this is a player you keep at only 26 yrs old and who plays against the best lines in hockey and is good for 50+ points/yr  with a decent contract ..there's a reason why Carbonneau likes him 

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You know what I admire about the Boston Bruins and Brad Marchand?

Wait. Who just wrote that? Somebody slap me.

But seriously, I was really impressed this summer when Marchand said something along the line of, if you're looking at coming to the Boston Bruins and hoping to cash in big, you're looking at the wrong organization. But, if you're looking to come to a team that's about winning, then you're looking in the right spot. 

I respect that.

Carey Price can make all the comments he wants about not wanting to be one of those players that never wins a Stanley Cup but he certainly did all he could to take up as much of the salary cap as possible. If winning is priority number one, why not leave a little on the table with the likes of the Bruins players and even Sydney Crosby so that he can actually be surrounded by a talented supporting cast?

Now, I'm as big a Carey Price fan as anyone and actually don't know how I'd feel if he were traded, but I think his contract may come back to haunt him. If I remember correctly, I believe Luongo joked about it, from experience, when the contract was signed. 

Carey needs to take ownership for his part in this year's failure and focus on his own game. 

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1 hour ago, BigTed3 said:

I wouldn't dump Danault. No, he is not a prolific scorer, and we absolutely need to find scoring centers who can do more in the top 6 than he can. But, he's a very good two-way player. He's very efficient defensively and he can also put up 40-50 points doing it. We're not talking about a Nate Thompson who can't score and we're not talking about a David Desharnais who can't play defence and needs to be babied in terms of assignments. Danault is a guy you can throw out in any situation, and he's a guy who shows up with an effort just about every night. To boot, he's one of the few French players of quality we've had in the organization in recent years.

The team is going to need to keep a few veterans around if we plan to aim for a Cup run in 2021 or 2022. Danault staying here makes sense. In 2021, he'll be 28, so it wouldn't be unreasonable to keep him as a free agent. Conversely, Petry will be 34 and Tatar 31. How many years are those two going to be looking for on potentially their last big contracts? My guess is that Petry will want 3-4 years and Tatar 4-5 on their deals. I'd much rather keep Danault on a 5-6 year deal than Tatar for a year or two less but being 3 years older. The aim of assessing whether to trade a player now is not based on what he brings to the table in 2020, it's about thinking what he's going to give us in 2 years or longer. We're not winning a Cup this year or next year, so Petry's skating or Weber's shot or Tatar's goal-scoring now is largely irrelevant to whether we should keep them. If anything, we should be trying to trade players whose value is high now and whereby it is likely to drop over the next two seasons. Petry, Weber, and Tatar are at the head of that class.

 

1 hour ago, arpem-can said:

 geez I guess we can agree to disagree on Danault ..considered one of the better defensive forwards in the game and on pace for a career goal and points totals …+12 ( this year )  ..I think this is a player you keep at only 26 yrs old and who plays against the best lines in hockey and is good for 50+ points/yr  with a decent contract ..there's a reason why Carbonneau likes him 

Are you going to pay him 6 or 7 or even 8 million in two years to be a 45 point player playing on the third line? Because that is what he will cost. 

Plus trading him now opens up a center ice spot. Suzuki? Move Nate, so Poelhing can take over. That’s our future if they aren’t we at least can find out.

I see our future with Domi, KK, Suziki and Poelhing playing down the middle.

It would force Julien to try Domi with Gallagher and Tatar or KK or  Suzuki.

And no way Danualt is putting up 40 points a year if he starts getting 3rd line minutes. He gets PP, and top line minutes now. If ever you were going to trade a player when his value is extremley high this is the perfect piece for a stanley cup contender.

I think most teams vying for the cup would pay a high premium for Danualt right now...Low salary, has established himself as a really good two way player. You could probably get a first, second and a really good prospect.

How about the oiler s. Jesse Puljujarvi, Oilers first and second.  

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59 minutes ago, caperns61 said:

 

Are you going to pay him 6 or 7 or even 8 million in two years to be a 45 point player playing on the third line? Because that is what he will cost. 

Plus trading him now opens up a center ice spot. Suzuki? Move Nate, so Poelhing can take over. That’s our future if they aren’t we at least can find out.

I see our future with Domi, KK, Suziki and Poelhing playing down the middle.

It would force Julien to try Domi with Gallagher and Tatar or KK or  Suzuki.

And no way Danualt is putting up 40 points a year if he starts getting 3rd line minutes. He gets PP, and top line minutes now. If ever you were going to trade a player when his value is extremley high this is the perfect piece for a stanley cup contender.

I think most teams vying for the cup would pay a high premium for Danualt right now...Low salary, has established himself as a really good two way player. You could probably get a first, second and a really good prospect.

How about the oiler s. Jesse Puljujarvi, Oilers first and second.  

You may even be able to send Danault to a rebuilding team cause of his age and the return may still be similar

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1 hour ago, caperns61 said:

 

Are you going to pay him 6 or 7 or even 8 million in two years to be a 45 point player playing on the third line? Because that is what he will cost. 

Plus trading him now opens up a center ice spot. Suzuki? Move Nate, so Poelhing can take over. That’s our future if they aren’t we at least can find out.

I see our future with Domi, KK, Suziki and Poelhing playing down the middle.

It would force Julien to try Domi with Gallagher and Tatar or KK or  Suzuki.

And no way Danualt is putting up 40 points a year if he starts getting 3rd line minutes. He gets PP, and top line minutes now. If ever you were going to trade a player when his value is extremley high this is the perfect piece for a stanley cup contender.

I think most teams vying for the cup would pay a high premium for Danualt right now...Low salary, has established himself as a really good two way player. You could probably get a first, second and a really good prospect.

How about the oiler s. Jesse Puljujarvi, Oilers first and second.  

I don't think Danault is going to hit 7-8M and if he does it'll be because he puts up 70+ points in a season this year or next, in which case, you'd still need to think about it. If you look at comparables for Danault, Mikael Backlund is probably a decent one. He was around 28 when he signed his 6-year extension for 5.3M a season starting in the 2018-19 year, and he had been coming off of 53 and 45 point seasons. Backlund's point per game totals are/were a bit ahead of Danault's. Nick Bonino's PPG average was a touch behind Danault's but he was a fairly coveted free agent and he managed 4.1M on a 4-year deal. Kevin Hayes got 7.1M on a 7-year deal and he was a bit younger than what Danault will be; in addition, the Flyers got largely ridiculed for that deal, so that's likely more than what Bergevin would ever offer Danault. A reasonable deal would be something like 5.5-6M for 5 years, maybe 6. And yes, if he wants 7 or 8M a year, then you trade him, I just don't think that'll be signed by the Habs.

As far as your statement that Danault gets PP time to contribute to his point total, he has only 62 minutes of PP time this year. That's 8th among forwards this year and it's less PP time per game than Drouin, Kotkaniemi, and Kovalchuk too... so 12th on the team among forwards in PP ice time per game. Danault has only 4 of his 31 points on the PP this season, so his success is almost entirely explained by his strong play at ES. I absolutely agree with you that he's benefited from getting the best wingers and 1st line ice time at ES, but he's also getting the toughest match-ups and he's putting up a 59% Corsi, which is extremely good. This despite having only 43% O-zone starts, 2nd lowest on the team after only Nate Thompson.

So where would I see things going forward down the middle? Barring a trade or free agent or draftee changing the order of things, you're right that you have several guys vying for position here. The Habs still very much need a 1C and like you, I don't believe Danault is that guy. Kotkaniemi seems like he's not there yet, so it's likely between Domi (closer to being there now but with a lower ceiling) or Suzuki (most potential to be a PPG player or better). If we're building for the future, my feeling is that we have more to gain by Suzuki being there. I'd view JK as our 2C long-term and we'd still need a 3C, which is where Danault fits in. There is a 0% chance Domi accepts that role, and with Suzuki and JK ahead of him, we'd still need a capable 3C who can take on the tough match-ups. I don't think Poehling is there and I don't know that he's close to being there, and even then, the Habs may view him as a potential power winger, which is something we're lacking. If Poehling really impresses, then maybe you move on from Danault eventually, but I don't think there will be a problem finding a market for him. And if there are injuries, Danault can move up or down the line-up in the short term. Lastly, I wouldn't be surprised if Danault is considered for being the next captain of the team after Weber goes... it's easily between him and Gallagher at this time.

Yes, I think the coaches overrate Danault a bit, but he's a useful player who provides something others don't right now. And if we want to concentrate on building a Cup winner for 2021 or 2022, then you need to have a few veteran leaders and you need to have guys who can fill roles like Danault or Lehkonen or Armia. In two years, I think you could easily look at fielding a top 9 of

Domi-Suzuki-Gallagher

Drouin-Kotkaniemi-Caufield

Lehkonen-Danault-Armia

and if you do that, I think Danault would still get 15-18 minutes a night and I think he'd still give you 40 points.

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7 hours ago, ramcharger440 said:

Those two streaks combined for 16 losses, not may teams can come back from that even good ones. i have been thinking about this since last year and i can't put my finger on why but i am pretty sure the main issue is the coach. now don't get me wrong i am no fan of MB but as soon as CJ  got here our power play took a dump and has never really got back on form. CJ has an ok system and is better than MT  by leaps and bounds especially with the players but i think his system is killing our offensive creativity, his desire to sit on leads and play safe is too predictable and we just don't have a team that can play shutdown hockey which is what is his comfort zone. we are hurting right now but i don't think this roster is as bad as this i agree with most we should be at least a bubble team not the joke we have been for the last few weeks. i really don't know who is out there that would get the job done as coach but i think we will find out pretty soon as we can't keep losing if we want to keep our players on track especially the young guns, i think KK is getting confused about what he is supposed to be kind of like what happened to Galchenyuk and that whole gang of rookies we destroyed, the only reason Gallagher pulled through is he is a tough one who plays super hard and every coach loves that. In the short term at least i would put Timmins in charge and get a good young coach with some fresh idea's who is not afraid to play some rookies and play a modern system, we may be better than it looks we could just be playing the wrong game from another era.

We've been sitting on leads and blowing leads long before Julien arrived. It's like its become ingrained in the Habs DNA.

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6 minutes ago, habs1952 said:

We've been sitting on leads and blowing leads long before Julien arrived. It's like its become ingrained in the Habs DNA.

Yeah but we are talking about CJ right now the fact that other coaches in our past did the same does not mean we should not be looking for better. if our current management feels that is a good tactic they need to go too.

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3 hours ago, arpem-can said:

 geez I guess we can agree to disagree on Danault ..considered one of the better defensive forwards in the game and on pace for a career goal and points totals …+12 ( this year )  ..I think this is a player you keep at only 26 yrs old and who plays against the best lines in hockey and is good for 50+ points/yr  with a decent contract ..there's a reason why Carbonneau likes him 

forgot to mention he's become a reliable face-off man at 54.6 %

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16 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

I don't think Danault is going to hit 7-8M and if he does it'll be because he puts up 70+ points in a season this year or next, in which case, you'd still need to think about it. If you look at comparables for Danault, Mikael Backlund is probably a decent one. He was around 28 when he signed his 6-year extension for 5.3M a season starting in the 2018-19 year, and he had been coming off of 53 and 45 point seasons. Backlund's point per game totals are/were a bit ahead of Danault's. Nick Bonino's PPG average was a touch behind Danault's but he was a fairly coveted free agent and he managed 4.1M on a 4-year deal. Kevin Hayes got 7.1M on a 7-year deal and he was a bit younger than what Danault will be; in addition, the Flyers got largely ridiculed for that deal, so that's likely more than what Bergevin would ever offer Danault. A reasonable deal would be something like 5.5-6M for 5 years, maybe 6. And yes, if he wants 7 or 8M a year, then you trade him, I just don't think that'll be signed by the Habs.

As far as your statement that Danault gets PP time to contribute to his point total, he has only 62 minutes of PP time this year. That's 8th among forwards this year and it's less PP time per game than Drouin, Kotkaniemi, and Kovalchuk too... so 12th on the team among forwards in PP ice time per game. Danault has only 4 of his 31 points on the PP this season, so his success is almost entirely explained by his strong play at ES. I absolutely agree with you that he's benefited from getting the best wingers and 1st line ice time at ES, but he's also getting the toughest match-ups and he's putting up a 59% Corsi, which is extremely good. This despite having only 43% O-zone starts, 2nd lowest on the team after only Nate Thompson.

So where would I see things going forward down the middle? Barring a trade or free agent or draftee changing the order of things, you're right that you have several guys vying for position here. The Habs still very much need a 1C and like you, I don't believe Danault is that guy. Kotkaniemi seems like he's not there yet, so it's likely between Domi (closer to being there now but with a lower ceiling) or Suzuki (most potential to be a PPG player or better). If we're building for the future, my feeling is that we have more to gain by Suzuki being there. I'd view JK as our 2C long-term and we'd still need a 3C, which is where Danault fits in. There is a 0% chance Domi accepts that role, and with Suzuki and JK ahead of him, we'd still need a capable 3C who can take on the tough match-ups. I don't think Poehling is there and I don't know that he's close to being there, and even then, the Habs may view him as a potential power winger, which is something we're lacking. If Poehling really impresses, then maybe you move on from Danault eventually, but I don't think there will be a problem finding a market for him. And if there are injuries, Danault can move up or down the line-up in the short term. Lastly, I wouldn't be surprised if Danault is considered for being the next captain of the team after Weber goes... it's easily between him and Gallagher at this time.

Yes, I think the coaches overrate Danault a bit, but he's a useful player who provides something others don't right now. And if we want to concentrate on building a Cup winner for 2021 or 2022, then you need to have a few veteran leaders and you need to have guys who can fill roles like Danault or Lehkonen or Armia. In two years, I think you could easily look at fielding a top 9 of

Domi-Suzuki-Gallagher

Drouin-Kotkaniemi-Caufield

Lehkonen-Danault-Armia

and if you do that, I think Danault would still get 15-18 minutes a night and I think he'd still give you 40 points.

I think 70 points would put him in the 8 to 10 million range.

Comparables

Jordon Stall  = 6 mil

Backlund =5.3 OK

Cap will be higher when he is ready for a new contract, so lets just say, 5.5 to 6 mil then, do you want to be paying that for a 3rd line center?

If you think KK and Suzuki become your number 1 and 2 centers in two years. What are you going to be paying them? If you give Danualt 5.5 or 6?

I think Poehling will be close to where Danualt is right now and more likely better.

Danualt had 26 points first season in the AHL in 72 games…5 goals

Prorated , Poehling over 72 games in the AHL would have been at around 32 points, around 14 goals.  Poehling at a younger age has already succeded on one of the biggest stages. World Junior.  I know this does not guarantee success. I think once Poelhing gets back to center, he will start putting up some points. I think expecatations were just to much after what he did at the world Junior and then his first game.....he has probably even put to much pressure on himself.  They would be wise to move Nate out now and slot Poehling in there for the remainder of the season through good and bad or send him back to the AHL for the remainder of the season. He will be cheaper and a much better option for a third line center in 2 years than Danualt. 

Max Domi is 2 years younger, much much better offensively and more options. You can use him at center or the wing.,.. I know his stint there this year was not that good….But he was centered by a rookie.

If you give Domi Gallagher and Tatar… your likely getting a 80 plus point center.

Domi, KK and Suzuki all have way more ceiling than Danaualt. All are younger and all play the same position. I also believe Poehling will easily fill Danualts role in two years and will be better doing it. 

Yes I like Danualt, but he is maxed out right now at his skill set. He is not going to get any better. This is the most value he will ever have.

Its not like your trading your best LHD and no one to replace him. Were trading 1 center and probably have 4 who could all be better in 2 seasons. 

 

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1 hour ago, caperns61 said:

Cap will be higher when he is ready for a new contract, so lets just say, 5.5 to 6 mil then, do you want to be paying that for a 3rd line center?

If you think KK and Suzuki become your number 1 and 2 centers in two years. What are you going to be paying them? If you give Danualt 5.5 or 6?

I think Poehling will be close to where Danualt is right now and more likely better.

Domi, KK and Suzuki all have way more ceiling than Danaualt. All are younger and all play the same position. I also believe Poehling will easily fill Danualts role in two years and will be better doing it. 

Yes I like Danualt, but he is maxed out right now at his skill set. He is not going to get any better. This is the most value he will ever have.

Its not like your trading your best LHD and no one to replace him. Were trading 1 center and probably have 4 who could all be better in 2 seasons. 

 

Earlier I used the term “dump” for Danault - the above conveys my thoughts a little better. I was suggesting that if we get reasonable value in picks for Danault, (and I think he would be a valuable playoff competitor), I would not be upset because he’s replaceable and not a #1 centerpiece scorer.

Armia, Tatar, Petry, Gallagher may be wanted but are not as easily replaced based on prospects we have 

 

 

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11 minutes ago, claremont said:

Earlier I used the term “dump” for Danault - the above conveys my thoughts a little better. I was suggesting that if we get reasonable value in picks for Danault, (and I think he would be a valuable playoff competitor), I would not be upset because he’s replaceable and not a #1 centerpiece scorer.

Armia, Tatar, Petry, Gallagher may be wanted but are not as easily replaced based on prospects we have 

 

 

  Trading him this year would be a mistake .Danault gives the team a reliable amount of stability in the D-zone where he starts the majority of his play. Later when the team rounds the young guys into shape it becomes  a different animal . Suggesting Danault would command 7-8 mill if he has a 70 point year is far-fetched . Firstly in the unlikihood that it  would happen it would still only represent 1 productive year with no guarantees to repeat. He's on pace for a mid-fifty point total which is  about where he will stay for his career . His value is not in points and goals but as a defensive forward . For these reasons I don't believe Danault will break the bank . Realistically I would offer him a 3 year contract for at the most  5 mill/per which is a couple of mill more than he gets now . And I think he would take it . At the end of the contract he would still only be around 30 years old and , maybe more importantly,  a tradeable asset at any time during those years .

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https://torontosun.com/sports/hockey/nhl/traikos-quebec-premier-right-on-need-for-habs-to-either-trade-price-or-weber

 

Normally, politicians don’t make the best hockey analysts. But in this case, Francois Legault might be onto something.

It was a week ago when the Quebec premier, who had grown increasingly frustrated with the Montreal Canadiens’ latest slide down the standings, tweeted out: “Big challenge in 2020: Should we trade Price and Weber?”

Well, maybe not both.

But one week later, with the team on its second eight-game losing streak of the season, it’s time to at least think about moving one of them. And it’s not the one with the big, burly beard.

So the question is, should Carey Price take a page out of Patrick Roy’s playbook and join Hart Trophy candidate Nathan MacKinnon in Colorado? Or perhaps playing behind Nashville’s rock-solid defence is the best bet. How about Carolina, Buffalo or even San Jose?

Any of those options make more sense than having Price play out the remaining seven years of his contract in Montreal. Not with where this team is at right now. And not with where it’s heading.

A rebuild is finally coming for the Canadiens, who are on pace to missing the playoffs for the fourth time in five seasons. By the time it ends, the 32-year-old Price — and the 34-year-old Shea Weber — might be too old to lead this team where it needs to go next. By then, it might be 20-year-old Cayden Primeau who has replaced Price between the pipes.

The window has closed (not that it was ever really open) in Montreal. This isn’t a team Stanley Cup contender. In a beefed up Atlantic Division that includes Boston, Tampa Bay, Toronto, Florida and a Buffalo team that is young and trending upwards, this doesn’t even look like a playoff contender.

Some might suggest that the Canadiens don’t look much different than the St. Louis Blues did at this time a year ago, when they got great goaltending and went on an unprecedented roll that began in January and eventually led to a Stanley Cup. At the same time, the Canadiens also don’t look much different than the lowly Ottawa Senators.

The latter might be a more appropriate comparison. The difference is that Ottawa was built to be a draft lottery team this year, while Montreal had been hoping to reach up and grab a playoff spot.

And yet, if the 13th-place Canadiens lose to the 14th-place Senators on Saturday night, Montreal would be on pace for 77 points and Ottawa would be on pace for 73 points. That potential four-point swing speaks volumes about where the Canadiens are today and where they are inevitably heading.

The Canadiens, who are nine points back of a wild card and 18 points ahead of the last-place Red Wings, are not getting better. Not with this roster and not with what’s waiting in the pipeline. Montreal needs another top-3 pick in this year’s loaded entry draft. It needs more top-end prospects to go along with Jesperi Kotkaniemi, Nick Suzuki and Cole Caufield.

It needs to do what Ottawa has already done and turn the page and think ahead three-to-five years from now. That begins by making some hard decisions at the trade deadline.

Maybe the Canadiens can sell high on Tomas Tatar, who leads the team with 38 points and has another year remaining on his cap-friendly $4.8-million contract, and get back a first-rounder. Maybe Ilya Kovalchuk starts producing and Montreal manages to flip him to the Islanders for a second-round pick.

Maybe they dangle Weber. But if this rebuild is going to get a shot in the arm, it’s time for the Canadiens to think about clearing significant cap space and moving on from Price, who despite a sub-standard season that has mirrored the rest of his team’s, remains Montreal’s biggest trade chip.

Chances are, it’s already in the works.

“That was speculated last night in Chicago — not by me, but by people in the league,” hockey analyst Pierre McGuire told TSN radio on Friday morning. “I don’t know the answer to that. I’m not going to speculate … but I’m sure that’s been brought up.”

Trading Price is not an easy task for a number of reasons. The first is that Price has a full no-move contract. He’s also making $10.5 million until 2026, when he will be 39 years old. And if you haven’t noticed, it’s not like he’s justified that salary in the past two years.

Price ranks 37th in the league with a 3.01 goals-against average and is 39th with a .901 save percentage. Then again, it’s not like the Canadiens have made life easy on the former Hart Trophy winner.

Only Winnipeg’s Connor Hellebuyck and Toronto’s Frederik Andersen have faced more shots this season. Unlike those two teams, Montreal doesn’t have an Auston Matthews, John Tavares, Mitch Marner, Mark Scheifele or a Patrik Laine who can single-handedly win games on their own when Price doesn’t have his best stuff.

After all, we’ve seen what he can do at the Olympics. We’ve seen what he can do at the World Cup. And unfortunately for him, we’ve seen what he can’t do while playing behind a Canadiens team that isn’t talented or deep enough to challenge for anything except for a spot in the draft lottery.

 

Now, it’s time to give him a chance to see what he can do with a team that deserves him.

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1 hour ago, arpem-can said:

  Trading him this year would be a mistake .Danault gives the team a reliable amount of stability in the D-zone where he starts the majority of his play. Later when the team rounds the young guys into shape it becomes  a different animal . Suggesting Danault would command 7-8 mill if he has a 70 point year is far-fetched . Firstly in the unlikihood that it  would happen it would still only represent 1 productive year with no guarantees to repeat. He's on pace for a mid-fifty point total which is  about where he will stay for his career . His value is not in points and goals but as a defensive forward . For these reasons I don't believe Danault will break the bank . Realistically I would offer him a 3 year contract for at the most  5 mill/per which is a couple of mill more than he gets now . And I think he would take it . At the end of the contract he would still only be around 30 years old and , maybe more importantly,  a tradeable asset at any time during those years .

The problem right now, we are not winning with him, and by having him were not getting a chance to see the kids at center. Suziki, Poelhing both pegged to play center in the future playing the wing how does this help?

Dont kid yourself about salaries. Oreilly over 7 million, Hayes over 7 million, Kreji over 7 million, i think your undervaluing the market, its a business now  ..Danualt has established himself as one of the top defensive forwards in the game, if he were to have a 65 or 70 point season he would most certainly be in that ballbark. And make no mistake i dont want to trade him because I think he is no good i want to trade him because he is as good as he will ever be and that demands a nice return.

If Suzki, Domi, KK, Poeling were winger, I would not even mention Danualt in a trade. 

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On 1/10/2020 at 9:06 PM, BigTed3 said:

 

Yes, I think the coaches overrate Danault a bit, but he's a useful player who provides something others don't right now. And if we want to concentrate on building a Cup winner for 2021 or 2022, then you need to have a few veteran leaders and you need to have guys who can fill roles like Danault or Lehkonen or Armia. In two years, I think you could easily look at fielding a top 9 of

 

This is right on the money. Just because a player is replaceable doesn't mean you replace him with the same type of player. It just doesn't make sense. You keep what you have/know. Why spend more time developing another player? We have more pressing needs than replacing Danault. 

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44 minutes ago, habs1952 said:

This is right on the money. Just because a player is replaceable doesn't mean you replace him with the same type of player. It just doesn't make sense. You keep what you have/know. Why spend more time developing another player? We have more pressing needs than replacing Danault. 

I agree the kid is very good at what he does it is not his fault that the line he is on is pretty much our #1 on many teams it would be an awesome #2 line. the day Danno is our #3 center we will be a contender

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