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2019-20 State Of The Habs


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3 hours ago, caperns61 said:

The problem right now, we are not winning with him, and by having him were not getting a chance to see the kids at center. Suziki, Poelhing both pegged to play center in the future playing the wing how does this help?

Dont kid yourself about salaries. Oreilly over 7 million, Hayes over 7 million, Kreji over 7 million, i think your undervaluing the market, its a business now  ..Danualt has established himself as one of the top defensive forwards in the game, if he were to have a 65 or 70 point season he would most certainly be in that ballbark. And make no mistake i dont want to trade him because I think he is no good i want to trade him because he is as good as he will ever be and that demands a nice return.

If Suzki, Domi, KK, Poeling were winger, I would not even mention Danualt in a trade. 

I'm looking at the players you mentioned as a comparison to Danault and I see O'Reilly  has 191 goals averaging about .7 p/p/g , Kreji has 203 career goals ( and another 36 in play-offs ) and averages .77 p/p/g and Hayes has 105 career goals ( who I think is grossly over-paid anyway ) averages about .6 p/p/g with 105 career goals in 425 career games … the reason I think Danault (if you keep him) with 48 goals in 313 career games is worth less than the players you mentioned  is based on being effective 2 -way players...it's not that I don't think Danault doesn't chip in it's just not at a $7 million a yr clip 

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3 hours ago, habs1952 said:

This is right on the money. Just because a player is replaceable doesn't mean you replace him with the same type of player. It just doesn't make sense. You keep what you have/know. Why spend more time developing another player? We have more pressing needs than replacing Danault. 

Yeah, hard pass on trading Danault just because he's not getting any better at age 27. He's in his prime and pretty valuable for us, there are numerous guys on this roster who are way older, won't get any better, and will fetch a similar or even better return in a trade.

I also don't think we're particularly strong down the middle just yet. I see the potential that it could become our strongest position soon but trading away the only guy who's capable of playing against the other team's top lines just doesn't make sense to me. If all our center prospescts pan out and Danault becomes replaceable, that's a great problem to have. I'll cross that bridge when I get there.

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17 hours ago, arpem-can said:

I'm looking at the players you mentioned as a comparison to Danault and I see O'Reilly  has 191 goals averaging about .7 p/p/g , Kreji has 203 career goals ( and another 36 in play-offs ) and averages .77 p/p/g and Hayes has 105 career goals ( who I think is grossly over-paid anyway ) averages about .6 p/p/g with 105 career goals in 425 career games … the reason I think Danault (if you keep him) with 48 goals in 313 career games is worth less than the players you mentioned  is based on being effective 2 -way players...it's not that I don't think Danault doesn't chip in it's just not at a $7 million a yr clip 

I am not saying he is worth it, I am saying if he were to have a 70 point season that is the market around 7 million, between last season and this he is running at .66 points per game....that is around the top 50 for centerman, thats a second line center. Add to the fact he is  elite as a defensive center, plus only 27, plus this year and next at 3 million, i think its a perfect time to move him, you will never get anymore value for him then right now. I don't think he will have a role on this team at over 5 million a year on this team in the next couple of years. The market should be ripe for Danualt right now more,  then it will be going into FA end of next year. 

Again if we did not have Suzuki, Domi, Poelhing, KK...no need for this conversation, but we look to be strong down the middle going forward long term, we need other pieces, scoring wingers, better deeman..

Trade Danualt to Edmonton ...Jesse Puljujarvi, there first and a scond

Trade Petry to Winnipeg for a prospect and their first

Trade Price to Nashville for there first and a prospect. 

One of the above three not likely to make the playoffs so you could get lucky win the lottery and get two top 10 first rounders. That is if we stay on track....

Or you could get real real real lucky and Winnipeg, Nashville, and the Oilers all not make it, then win the lottery with there 3 picks and yours....end up with the first ,second, third and 4th pick in this years draft :)

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1 hour ago, caperns61 said:

The market should be ripe for Danualt right now more,  then it will be going into FA end of next year. 

we need other pieces, scoring wingers, better deeman..

Trade Danualt to Edmonton ...Jesse Puljujarvi, there first and a scond

Trade Petry to Winnipeg for a prospect and their first

Trade Price to Nashville for there first and a prospect. 

One of the above three not likely to make the playoffs so you could get lucky win the lottery and get two top 10 first rounders. That is if we stay on track....

Or you could get real real real lucky and Winnipeg, Nashville, and the Oilers all not make it, then win the lottery with there 3 picks and yours....end up with the first ,second, third and 4th pick in this years draft :)

While I continue to agree with the sentiments about shopping Danault, almost no teams can afford Petry, Weber or Price based on current salary caps without losing some equivalents. 
Colorado has the most cap room and is an elite contender that could pick up Weber or Price - islanders possibly - Winnipeg is in limbo regarding Byfuglien so there isn’t much practicality to the suggestions 

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After watching Sat game I noticed a few things that make ZERO sense to me.  First off, why would they not put Poehling on the third line and give the kid a chance to see what he can do with some talented line mates and put Peca on the 4th line where be belongs.  Seems to me it's like a kick in the nads that they would call up Peca and put him ahead of Poehling, no wonder we can't develop and kids.  Secondly WHY THE HELL IS COUSINS ON THE FIRST PP UNIT????  I get we won, but this team needs a change in the office and bench.

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59 minutes ago, 26NCounting said:

After watching Sat game I noticed a few things that make ZERO sense to me.  First off, why would they not put Poehling on the third line and give the kid a chance to see what he can do with some talented line mates and put Peca on the 4th line where be belongs.  Seems to me it's like a kick in the nads that they would call up Peca and put him ahead of Poehling, no wonder we can't develop and kids.  Secondly WHY THE HELL IS COUSINS ON THE FIRST PP UNIT????  I get we won, but this team needs a change in the office and bench.

^^^^^ This

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2 hours ago, 26NCounting said:

After watching Sat game I noticed a few things that make ZERO sense to me.  First off, why would they not put Poehling on the third line and give the kid a chance to see what he can do with some talented line mates and put Peca on the 4th line where be belongs.  Seems to me it's like a kick in the nads that they would call up Peca and put him ahead of Poehling, no wonder we can't develop and kids.  Secondly WHY THE HELL IS COUSINS ON THE FIRST PP UNIT????  I get we won, but this team needs a change in the office and bench.

Poehling did have a bunch of games with Kotkaniemi... and they didn't look great together.

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3 hours ago, 26NCounting said:

After watching Sat game I noticed a few things that make ZERO sense to me.  First off, why would they not put Poehling on the third line and give the kid a chance to see what he can do with some talented line mates and put Peca on the 4th line where be belongs.  Seems to me it's like a kick in the nads that they would call up Peca and put him ahead of Poehling, no wonder we can't develop and kids.  Secondly WHY THE HELL IS COUSINS ON THE FIRST PP UNIT????  I get we won, but this team needs a change in the office and bench.

 Poehling hasn't shown much at either the AHL or NHL level and is being sheltered somewhat until he develops not unlike JK ( with much better hands than Poehling )  was sheltered last year on the 3rd line ….zero points in 19 games and hasn't shown he'd be a game -breaker and he's had chances ...Cousins has 86 pts in 300 HNL games and will go to the front of the net on a PP where Gallagher and Armia stationed themselves ..Tatar , Domi , Peca , Suzuki , JK , Kovalchuk , Drouin &  Weal are more or less perimeter PP players ...Thompson  and Weise will go to the front of the net but  Montreal won't play them there for obvious reasons  ...that kind  leaves Cousins and to a lesser extent Danault by default 

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7 minutes ago, campabee82 said:

We just got a major assist from the Leafs in our quest to make the pre-season. The Leafs have announced that D man Morgan Reilly will be out for 8 weeks with a broken foot and have had to call up Sandin to fill his spot on the blue line.

Everyone makes the pre-season. That success is what's kept Bergevin around here so long.

:)

 

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30 minutes ago, campabee82 said:

We just got a major assist from the Leafs in our quest to make the pre-season. The Leafs have announced that D man Morgan Reilly will be out for 8 weeks with a broken foot and have had to call up Sandin to fill his spot on the blue line.

actually I think Sandin is a pretty good prospect for the Leafs ...as much as it pains me to say that ..lol

 

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7 hours ago, jennifer_rocket said:

Poehling did have a bunch of games with Kotkaniemi... and they didn't look great together.

Yeah. Aside from some of the guys we're using on the PP i cant really fault Julien for the lines right now.  Considering how many key players we have injured, he's just trying to make 4 nhl quality lines. It means JK gets stuck with less creative players (did you see that one shift with Lehks-Suzuki-JK? wow) but it is what it is. He's still the youngest player on our roster & has little things he needs to work on anyway.

 

1 hour ago, BigTed3 said:

Everyone makes the pre-season. That success is what's kept Bergevin around here so long.

:)

 

53 minutes ago, arpem-can said:

actually I think Sandin is a pretty good prospect for the Leafs ...as much as it pains me to say that ..lol

He's definitely a good prospect.   That said, there's a huge drop off from Rielly to their #2 so replacing him with a rookie - no matter how good he is - is going to hurt them. 

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I have this sneaking suspicion we are going to string some wins together, then the ASG will happen & we will get back some injured players.   We will then start winning at our best clip all season and narrowly squeak into the playoffs (at Toronto's expense no less).

 

Once there I think we will actually surprise and win one, maybe two series.     Not a great season by any stretch but one that helps give some experience to our future stars and hopefully shows MB there is work to do. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, maas_art said:

I have this sneaking suspicion we are going to string some wins together, then the ASG will happen & we will get back some injured players.   We will then start winning at our best clip all season and narrowly squeak into the playoffs (at Toronto's expense no less).

 

Once there I think we will actually surprise and win one, maybe two series.     Not a great season by any stretch but one that helps give some experience to our future stars and hopefully shows MB there is work to do. 

Noooooooooooooo. :D No more middling success for MB. If we make the post-season he'll be here for another five years! That would be, what? Year 13 of a five-year plan?

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^^^^^^^^

The sooner MB leaves town the sooner we can actually work towards laying the foundations for a legit team.

Every time we play Ottawa and compare KK vs Tkachuk I just feel ill that we could have had him. 

KK is not a bad player but certainly not a top 5 pick type of player

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16 minutes ago, jennifer_rocket said:

Noooooooooooooo. :D No more middling success for MB. If we make the post-season he'll be here for another five years! That would be, what? Year 13 of a five-year plan?

Im not saying its what I want but rather what i feel might happen. I just have this feeling like they are going to turn it around now. 

 

1 minute ago, 26NCounting said:

^^^^^^^^

The sooner MB leaves town the sooner we can actually work towards laying the foundations for a legit team.

Every time we play Ottawa and compare KK vs Tkachuk I just feel ill that we could have had him. 

I still feel like in the long run JK will be better than Tkachuk but time will tell.  If we had drafted Tkachuk im sure he'd be playing with Weal and Cousins right now anyway... 

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2 minutes ago, maas_art said:

Im not saying its what I want but rather what i feel might happen. I just have this feeling like they are going to turn it around now. 

 

I still feel like in the long run JK will be better than Tkachuk but time will tell.  If we had drafted Tkachuk im sure he'd be playing with Weal and Cousins right now anyway... 

HAHA! Good Point!

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57 minutes ago, maas_art said:

Im not saying its what I want but rather what i feel might happen. I just have this feeling like they are going to turn it around now. 

 

I still feel like in the long run JK will be better than Tkachuk but time will tell.  If we had drafted Tkachuk im sure he'd be playing with Weal and Cousins right now anyway... 

  I think they are 2 different players and comparing them  is futile ...I love  Tkachuks ' tenacity but JK has better hands and vision and is ( more importantly ) a center we needed to draft . I think we'll be happy when he matures ...he's still only 19 ...he'll come around 

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3 hours ago, maas_art said:

I have this sneaking suspicion we are going to string some wins together, then the ASG will happen & we will get back some injured players.   We will then start winning at our best clip all season and narrowly squeak into the playoffs (at Toronto's expense no less).

 

Once there I think we will actually surprise and win one, maybe two series.     Not a great season by any stretch but one that helps give some experience to our future stars and hopefully shows MB there is work to do. 

 

 

I myself would love to see that happen!!! I also think it's possible. With Gallagher. Drouin, Armia back would solidify all 3 top lines with a strong 4 line and some players to move in out when needed.

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2 hours ago, 26NCounting said:

^^^^^^^^

The sooner MB leaves town the sooner we can actually work towards laying the foundations for a legit team.

Every time we play Ottawa and compare KK vs Tkachuk I just feel ill that we could have had him. 

KK is not a bad player but certainly not a top 5 pick type of player

 

2 hours ago, maas_art said:

Im not saying its what I want but rather what i feel might happen. I just have this feeling like they are going to turn it around now. 

 

I still feel like in the long run JK will be better than Tkachuk but time will tell.  If we had drafted Tkachuk im sure he'd be playing with Weal and Cousins right now anyway... 

 

I think the bottom line is that it's a crapshoot at this time. I remember the draft and most people shrugged off Tkachuk as being overrated because of his size/grit/pedigree and with questions about how his lack of scoring in U.S. college would translate to the NHL. It's always trickier to compare college players to junior players, where the competition is easier/younger. At draft time, most pundits and fans were wondering if we should take JK or Zadina and Tkachuk was further down the radar...

That said, the fact Tkachuk is bigger and has played against older, bigger players before the NHL, it's not that surprising that he's a bit faster out of the gate. It doesn't mean you would go back and draft him ahead of JK. Players like Barkov and McKinnon and so on have taken time to find their groove in the NHL too, and the skill is clearly there with Kotkaniemi. As I posted, he played well last year as a rookie and he played well this year with Drouin and Armia and had a really good shift with Suzuki and Lehkonen in a recent game. When he's gotten to play with skilled linemates, he hasn't looked out of place. He's looked less impressive playing with Cousins and Weal, but that's on the coaches.

If you were to re-draft 2018 now, I think you'd easily still  see Dahlin and Svechnikov as 1-2, but those weren't options for us. Past that, I'm not sure you'd get consensus, although I think Zadina would drop a bit and the 3-5 spots would probably be a mixture of people liking JK, Tkachuk, Hughes, Hayton, and maybe some votes for Bouchard, Zadina, and even Dobson. Point being, I don't think Kotkaniemi would be an unreasonable choice at #3 if you were doing it over again tomorrow.

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