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2019-20 State Of The Habs


H_T_L
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The window is small. Price and Weber are getting up there in age and tying up a lot of money. In a couple of years, if the team does not progress upwards I could see Price asking out. Either we rebuild or go for it. I understand the risks of free agency and all but if you don't go for it, then might as well trade Weber and Price, eat some contract and get decent return before 1 or both of them demand a trade and then the organization will be attempting to move them under weakness....

 

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1 hour ago, habby67 said:

The window is small. Price and Weber are getting up there in age and tying up a lot of money. In a couple of years, if the team does not progress upwards I could see Price asking out. Either we rebuild or go for it. I understand the risks of free agency and all but if you don't go for it, then might as well trade Weber and Price, eat some contract and get decent return before 1 or both of them demand a trade and then the organization will be attempting to move them under weakness....

 

I don't even think we've opened the window yet. Unfortunately. :mellow:

The team is still not improved from last year. Bergevin hasn't addressed our need at LD and he hasn't been able to add any superstar strength up front. I don't know if, or when, Bergevin will be able to open a Cup window for this team. Is it supposed to be at the end of THIS five-year plan? Or is it the NEXT five-year plan we're aiming for? How many five-year plans will we have to get through?

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1 minute ago, jennifer_rocket said:

I don't even think we've opened the window yet. Unfortunately. :mellow:

The team is still not improved from last year. Bergevin hasn't addressed our need at LD and he hasn't been able to add any superstar strength up front. I don't know if, or when, Bergevin will be able to open a Cup window for this team. Is it supposed to be at the end of THIS five-year plan? Or is it the NEXT five-year plan we're aiming for? How many five-year plans will we have to get through?

Yeah,,,, the only thing he's addressed is the backup role and even that has some questions behind it. Niemi was a disaster last year so it would be difficult to believe there's been no improvement there. Our other nemesis last year was the PP and I haven't seen any real movement in that area so i'm expecting similar results. The D is pretty much a wash from last year with the only change being Chariot for Benn. Unless we get another season of career breaking stats from this roster I don't hold up much hope of a big jump in the standings. Might be enough to make a run at the playoffs if Price plays lights out again, otherwise there are still some big questions going forward

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9 minutes ago, H_T_L said:

Yeah,,,, the only thing he's addressed is the backup role and even that has some questions behind it. Niemi was a disaster last year so it would be difficult to believe there's been no improvement there. Our other nemesis last year was the PP and I haven't seen any real movement in that area so i'm expecting similar results. The D is pretty much a wash from last year with the only change being Chariot for Benn. Unless we get another season of career breaking stats from this roster I don't hold up much hope of a big jump in the standings. Might be enough to make a run at the playoffs if Price plays lights out again, otherwise there are still some big questions going forward

Agreed. Hard to say what Kincaid will be. Hopefully he has a rebound year and provides good value in the backup role.

And yeah, I don't see any changes that would make me jump up and say, "Oh boy, the powerplay is going to be excellent this season!" It'll probably be terrible, just like last season. To go along with our middling penalty kill.

The only difference I see on D is that we've paid more money to another bottom pairing defender.

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6 minutes ago, H_T_L said:

Yeah,,,, the only thing he's addressed is the backup role and even that has some questions behind it. Niemi was a disaster last year so it would be difficult to believe there's been no improvement there. Our other nemesis last year was the PP and I haven't seen any real movement in that area so i'm expecting similar results. The D is pretty much a wash from last year with the only change being Chariot for Benn. Unless we get another season of career breaking stats from this roster I don't hold up much hope of a big jump in the standings. Might be enough to make a run at the playoffs if Price plays lights out again, otherwise there are still some big questions going forward

Agreed. Hard to say what Kincaid will be. Hopefully he has a rebound year and provides good value in the backup role.

And yeah, I don't see any changes that would make me jump up and say, "Oh boy, the powerplay is going to be excellent this season!" It'll probably be terrible, just like last season. Too go along with our middling penalty kill.

The only difference I see on D is that we've paid more money to another bottom pairing defender.

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1 hour ago, jennifer_rocket said:

Agreed. Hard to say what Kincaid will be. Hopefully he has a rebound year and provides good value in the backup role.

And yeah, I don't see any changes that would make me jump up and say, "Oh boy, the powerplay is going to be excellent this season!" It'll probably be terrible, just like last season. Too go along with our middling penalty kill.

The only difference I see on D is that we've paid more money to another bottom pairing defender.

pretty big difference on D is we will start the year with Webber we played half the season without him just that would probably have gotten us into the playoffs. just sayin.

 

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14 minutes ago, ramcharger440 said:

pretty big difference on D is we will start the year with Webber we played half the season without him just that would probably have gotten us into the playoffs. just sayin.

Certainly, but Weber has only played a total of 162/246 games in his three years with Montreal. He's 33 years old. He may start 2019-20 with Montreal, but there's no guarantee he doesn't miss more action through injury. I'm hoping he has a completely healthy season and doesn't miss a game. I hope he performs well all season long.

Curiously, was there any difference in our winning percentage last year with and without Weber? I have no idea where to look for that.

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1 hour ago, jennifer_rocket said:

Certainly, but Weber has only played a total of 162/246 games in his three years with Montreal. He's 33 years old. He may start 2019-20 with Montreal, but there's no guarantee he doesn't miss more action through injury. I'm hoping he has a completely healthy season and doesn't miss a game. I hope he performs well all season long.

Curiously, was there any difference in our winning percentage last year with and without Weber? I have no idea where to look for that.

Exactly. I'm not sure about the difference to our winning percentage but Weber missed 24 games last season, so a little less than 1/3 of the regular season. There's no doubt to my mind that we're a much better team with him in the lineup, but I also don't think it's reasonable to expect him to keep carrying the load on the first pairing. He'll be 34 years old on opening night, I think it's time he gets some help. Everybody wins, so let's find that #1 LHD.

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3 hours ago, ramcharger440 said:

pretty big difference on D is we will start the year with Webber we played half the season without him just that would probably have gotten us into the playoffs. just sayin.

 

Well heck, I hope not. From what I saw last year in person, considering he was out for so long he looked old, slow and incompetent. Especially in Detroit, if Kinot remembers.

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1 hour ago, habby67 said:

Well heck, I hope not. From what I saw last year in person, considering he was out for so long he looked old, slow and incompetent. Especially in Detroit, if Kinot remembers.

Ya, I remember. He didn't look like anything special, just another D-man.

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31 minutes ago, kinot-2 said:

Ya, I remember. He didn't look like anything special, just another D-man.

Ya ok lets just let him go then.........he is playing with a midget most of the time might have something to do with how he is doing i like Mete but if he fumbles and gets caught in the zone he is in trouble sure Webber is not the fastest skater but i laugh at how some folks write the guy off after coming into the season late with no camp and not being able to do his normal off season workup one would think it is normal for a guy to fall off a bit later in the year. i can think of a couple of very highly regarded players on this forum that had tough years last year they get quite a bit of slack.

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2 hours ago, ramcharger440 said:

Ya ok lets just let him go then.........he is playing with a midget most of the time might have something to do with how he is doing i like Mete but if he fumbles and gets caught in the zone he is in trouble sure Webber is not the fastest skater but i laugh at how some folks write the guy off after coming into the season late with no camp and not being able to do his normal off season workup one would think it is normal for a guy to fall off a bit later in the year. i can think of a couple of very highly regarded players on this forum that had tough years last year they get quite a bit of slack.

Honestly i think Weber will be fine. He came back like a freight train after missing almost an entire calendar year.  I know by the end many thought he was injured (he denied this) but I think it was simply running on adrenaline for a stretch and then coming back to earth.  I suspect he'll train hard this summer & come back strong in October. 

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6 hours ago, jennifer_rocket said:

 

Curiously, was there any difference in our winning percentage last year with and without Weber? I have no idea where to look for that.

My guess would be not a heck of a lot, because Petry was having an outstanding season and did an amazing job filling in. I would have thought the biggest boost with Weber's return would have been on the PP,  but we all know that didn't materialize.

I too expect Weber will have a much more consistent season with a full training camp behind him ( barring injury). He did taper off late in the season, but that was to be expected. He's obviously no spring chicken anymore.

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8 hours ago, Regis22 said:

Maybe Weber isn't  the issue . Get him  an actual 1 st line d man to play with .

Something that was noticeable is that when Weber came back Carey's numbers got a lot better quickly , and Carey even from back to the Olympics has commented he likes having him in front of him. That's actually what a defenseman is supposed to do . 

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9 hours ago, Regis22 said:

Maybe Weber isn't  the issue . Get him  an actual 1 st line d man to play with .

Weber isn't the issue, per se. Marc Bergevin's seven year failure to manage the team appropriately is. Weber is a symptom of the larger problem. And I have no issue with Weber being part of this team. I do, however, see him as less than what sports media and management believe him to be. i.e. a number one D. And Bergevin will not trade him. I would be shocked if he did. It just feels like one of those things he'd rather fall on his sword over.

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53 minutes ago, CaptWelly said:

Something that was noticeable is that when Weber came back Carey's numbers got a lot better quickly , and Carey even from back to the Olympics has commented he likes having him in front of him. That's actually what a defenseman is supposed to do . 

That is a good point. ;)

Weber is an important part of the team, I just don't view him as a number one D. And I believe we should be supporting him with a very strong LD candidate rather than crossing our fingers that a 21 year old can become a number one LD.

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1 hour ago, jennifer_rocket said:

Weber isn't the issue, per se. Marc Bergevin's seven year failure to manage the team appropriately is.... And Bergevin will not trade him. I would be shocked if he did. It just feels like one of those things he'd rather fall on his sword over.

This is a huge point.

Philadelphia currently has 3 legit #1 LD. They have one very good RD and then a whole bunch of nothing. They have several key older players & have made it seem like they are willing to go all in before their window closes. I would be willing to be dollars for donuts they would do a Sanheim for Weber deal (and probably send us another piece in return).  I really like Shea Weber and I can understand wanting him as a leader on this team, but at some point the bottom is going to drop out on his value and we are not yet ready to contend... those 2 things dont jive together. 

Sanheim - Petry
Mete - Juulsen
Chiarot - Brook/Folin

better than what we have currently, even with the loss of man-mountain because our whole left side shifts down into situations they can handle.  Brook eases into the NHL on the 3rd pair (if ready) and within a couple of years may leapfrog Juulsen as our #1 RD

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11 minutes ago, maas_art said:

This is a huge point.

Philadelphia currently has 3 legit #1 LD. They have one very good RD and then a whole bunch of nothing. They have several key older players & have made it seem like they are willing to go all in before their window closes. I would be willing to be dollars for donuts they would do a Sanheim for Weber deal (and probably send us another piece in return).  I really like Shea Weber and I can understand wanting him as a leader on this team, but at some point the bottom is going to drop out on his value and we are not yet ready to contend... those 2 things dont jive together. 

Sanheim - Petry
Mete - Juulsen
Chiarot - Brook/Folin

better than what we have currently, even with the loss of man-mountain because our whole left side shifts down into situations they can handle.  Brook eases into the NHL on the 3rd pair (if ready) and within a couple of years may leapfrog Juulsen as our #1 RD

I'm with you.

I don't think we necessarily need to trade Weber now, but we do need to acquire a LD for our top pairing. Acquiring a top quality LD should make us a post-season team. It may help open up a new window for the team to compete for the Cup. MAY.

Almost every single fan of this team knows we need that extra help at LD. Bergevin knows it. He has to be approaching this summer with the intent of improving our team at that position. He has not achieved this goal. He has to get it done.

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1 hour ago, jennifer_rocket said:

I'm with you.

I don't think we necessarily need to trade Weber now, but we do need to acquire a LD for our top pairing. Acquiring a top quality LD should make us a post-season team. It may help open up a new window for the team to compete for the Cup. MAY.

Almost every single fan of this team knows we need that extra help at LD. Bergevin knows it. He has to be approaching this summer with the intent of improving our team at that position. He has not achieved this goal. He has to get it done.

He spends too much time at his tailor's shop picking out his suits for the next season.

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3 hours ago, jennifer_rocket said:

I'm with you.

I don't think we necessarily need to trade Weber now, but we do need to acquire a LD for our top pairing. Acquiring a top quality LD should make us a post-season team. It may help open up a new window for the team to compete for the Cup. MAY.

Almost every single fan of this team knows we need that extra help at LD. Bergevin knows it. He has to be approaching this summer with the intent of improving our team at that position. He has not achieved this goal. He has to get it done.

For sure. There's options, im just not sure MB is exploring them because I think he believes if we come to camp with 16 defensemen, surely we can make it work.  He loves to mention how he played a season alongside Al Macinnis and I think he believes that some journeyman should be able to do the same alongside Weber but he forgets that this is never ideal and there are better options. 

Like you, im ok with keeping Weber and Petry if we can upgrade LD now and become a contender, but if that isnt going to happen then why not at least explore moving one of them.   What if you could get Sanheim + Prospect for Weber?  Or what if you could get Sanheim for Petry?  Or what if the flyers were having so much trouble signing Provorov that they did a swap of him to us for Weber?  Thats a potential franchise defensman who is 22 years old.   MB needs to be exploring all options. 

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Bottom line for me on Weber is this: when you trade your star defenceman at the time for a guy who is several years older and still good but past his prime, it's because you think you can win now. There is no sense in keeping Weber around unless you are making a push to be a Cup champion in the next year or two. If you are, then MB needs to make a trade to find a top-pairing LHD and a goal-scorer. if you're not a contender now, then you should dump Weber, Petry, Tatar, and probably Price while they still have decent value. Attempting to play the middle ground and use Weber to just squeak you into the playoffs while neither being a top 5-10 team now nor setting yourself up for the future is the worst thing MB could do, and that's what he's done thus far. He has the rest of the summer to make a decision: add the pieces you need to be a contender now or else be realistic about what players are going to help you for a window a couple of years from now.

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With all due respects... Our hockey town is totally sleeping. Our hockey town is infected by the losers culture. Our hockey town is sick. Our town is drugged by this bad side of this sport. There’s no remedy or remedies yet... Our rivals are winning, going into records of performance and into finals. Our peers is losing and going into records of underperformance. It’s accepted like it’s. It became and it becomes a part of our culture.

I use and I'm using the word volcano many times. Like when it's corresponding to this stuff. An inoffensive one. Not awaken yet. How does we provoke it? I, you, she, he, we, they don't know really...

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