Should the Habs just blow it up - La Tank for Lafreneire

[HabsAlways]

Curious about everyone else's opinion

    This includes trading anyone almost everyone over 24yro for picks in this years draft.    Price, Weber, Tatar, Drouin, Gallagher, Danault, Domi, Petry ... everyone is on the table.  You maybe keep  Tatar, Danault, Gallagher to be the transition vets and Petry on D.    But everyone else is shipped out.    We send Mete, JK, Suzuki, Fleury down to Laval .. stack the farm team for a year  or two of good results.     

The guys we get back are bottom feeder vets that will be UFA this summer.    

[H_T_L]

I was only joking when I asked is it too early to start the tank thread. If we lose the next 3 we might see some movement ( trade/ firing) but i'd be surprised to see anything earlier.

[HabsAlways]

4 minutes ago, H_T_L said:

I was only joking when I asked is it too early to start the tank thread. If we lose the next 3 we might see some movement ( trade/ firing) but i'd be surprised to see anything earlier.

I think its time to start the tank thread.    We are going to wind up just outside the playoffs 17 or 18 with very low odds to win the lottery.   There's no way this team makes the playoffs and its time that management commited to rebuild or playoffs.   Pick one, you can't do both. 

[H_T_L]

We have a brutal Dec. against some very good teams. We seem to play our best hockey vs the better teams and suck the big one against teams we should beat. I think the picture will be clearer at the end of this month. Still tons of time to tank and way too early to get value for the vets we might be looking to unload. Cap room is too tight for a lot of teams that might be interested in upgrades

[HabsAlways]

12 minutes ago, H_T_L said:

We have a brutal Dec. against some very good teams. We seem to play our best hockey vs the better teams and suck the big one against teams we should beat. I think the picture will be clearer at the end of this month. Still tons of time to tank and way too early to get value for the vets we might be looking to unload. Cap room is too tight for a lot of teams that might be interested in upgrades

To what end ... even if we make the playoffs, this is not a team that will go deep.    We'd be looking at yet another 1st or 2nd round loss that MB/Molson/CJ can point to as "success!"

[jennifer_rocket]

I voted yes.

I just don't see us on the path to competitive play-off hockey now or in the next 2-3 seasons with the Price and Weber contracts. I think it's time to consider moving on from M.B. and possibly dealing away from veterans later in the season. Go tank go!

[H_T_L]

2 minutes ago, HabsAlways said:

To what end ... even if we make the playoffs, this is not a team that will go deep.    We'd be looking at yet another 1st or 2nd round loss that MB/Molson/CJ can point to as "success!"

I'm just saying that this is the worst time of year to be unloading your vets and expect any kind of value in return. What's the point in a rebuild if you can't get a decent return on your older assets? How does that help a rebuild? As I mentioned earlier,,,, a lot of teams looking to beef up for a playoff run are tight against the cap and we can only retain so much salary. There is the option of taking back some bad contracts but that's a select number of teams in that boat. As we get closer to a trade deadline where most salary has already been paid,,, that becomes more palatable for a lot of teams

[HabsAlways]

Just now, H_T_L said:

I'm just saying that this is the worst time of year to be unloading your vets and expect any kind of value in return. What's the point in a rebuild if you can't get a decent return on your older assets? How does that help a rebuild? As I mentioned earlier,,,, a lot of teams looking to beef up for a playoff run are tight against the cap and we can only retain so much salary. There is the option of taking back some bad contracts but that's a select number of teams in that boat. As we get closer to a trade deadline where most salary has already been paid,,, that becomes more palatable for a lot of teams

Well yeah ... They do need to wait till trade deadline to make any moves, but they can send all the waiver exempt guys down and call up guys like Alzner, Weise, Peca etc and just suck till then as well.

[26NCounting]

I couldn't imagine the pressure that poor kid would face in MTL.  Not only being a 1st pick but being french, OMG the fans in Quebec would think he is the second coming and walks on water

[jennifer_rocket]

10 minutes ago, 26NCounting said:

I couldn't imagine the pressure that poor kid would face in MTL.  Not only being a 1st pick but being french, OMG the fans in Quebec would think he is the second coming and walks on water

And just imagine if he only turns out to be, like, a 60-point per season player and not a phenom. He'd be eaten alive.

[H_T_L]

9 minutes ago, HabsAlways said:

Well yeah ... They do need to wait till trade deadline to make any moves, but they can send all the waiver exempt guys down and call up guys like Alzner, Weise, Peca etc and just suck till then as well.

That would do the trick no doubt Can you ever imagine Molson approving of that plan? The bell would be empty and the backlash would be momentous.

[HabsAlways]

1 minute ago, H_T_L said:

That would do the trick no doubt Can you ever imagine Molson approving of that plan? The bell would be empty and the backlash would be momentous.

Depends ... Molson could see it as a way of securing sell outs for years to come if you had Lafreniere on the roster.     If it weren't for the lottery I could see Habs really trying it, lottery makes it tricky because it could be all for nought.

[26NCounting]

7 minutes ago, H_T_L said:

That would do the trick no doubt Can you ever imagine Molson approving of that plan? The bell would be empty and the backlash would be momentous.

Maybe that's exactly what needs to happen, the only thing Molson cares about is money.  Apparently winning or losing is irrelevant so have a few home games with an empty arena and a change would happen quick

[HabsAlways]

2 minutes ago, 26NCounting said:

Maybe that's exactly what needs to happen, the only thing Molson cares about is money.  Apparently winning or losing is irrelevant so have a few home games with an empty arena and a change would happen quick

A good chunk of the people in the seats at the Bell Center are not truly fans.     They couldn't really care less how the team fares.     And at any rate, the fans revolting and forcing Molson's hand is different than what HTL meant ... Molson choosing to sacrifice revenue without the fans revolting first.

[maas_art]

At this point, i think its premature to tank.  There's no guarantees you end up with 1st overall so its always a gamble to purposely tank and with a team made up with so many young players that can have a long term bad effect.    

I think if we can pull out of this funk we're ok. But it needs to happen now.  A few more loses and I agree, its an option.  

[HabsAlways]

5 minutes ago, maas_art said:

At this point, i think its premature to tank.  There's no guarantees you end up with 1st overall so its always a gamble to purposely tank and with a team made up with so many young players that can have a long term bad effect.    

I think if we can pull out of this funk we're ok. But it needs to happen now.  A few more loses and I agree, its an option.  

To what end though ... to squeek into the playoffs and have yet another 1st or 2nd round exit?   This roster will never win a cup ... far too many things would have to all come together at exactly the right time for it to happen.   Its simply a foregone conclusion that even if we make the playoffs, nothing will come of it.

Send all the young guys to Laval and let them win there.

[campabee82]

27 minutes ago, HabsAlways said:

To what end though ... to squeek into the playoffs and have yet another 1st or 2nd round exit?   This roster will never win a cup ... far too many things would have to all come together at exactly the right time for it to happen.   Its simply a foregone conclusion that even if we make the playoffs, nothing will come of it.

Send all the young guys to Laval and let them win there.

I voted no, but I wish there was a HE'LL NO button. There is no value in tanking at any point, only 8 out of the 25 lotteries have been won by the last place team that's only a 32% success rate. You want to blow up the team trade all the vets and maybe finish 4th in the lottery? I would rather keep playing hard let the young guys see just what it takes to contend and keep building but to do that we can't start making more holes in the lineup we have to keep what we have and replace the aging parts a few at a time. My fear is that if we blow it all up and miss on the lottery this year are we going to keep trying to get a lottery pick until one finally lands in our lap? You can't have the mindset of tanking for the #1 pick anymore it doesn't work out 68% of the time. 

[CaptWelly]

2 hours ago, maas_art said:

At this point, i think its premature to tank.  There's no guarantees you end up with 1st overall so its always a gamble to purposely tank and with a team made up with so many young players that can have a long term bad effect.    

I think if we can pull out of this funk we're ok. But it needs to happen now.  A few more loses and I agree, its an option.  

I voted no and absolutely not IMO. This isn't like years ago when Edmonton kept getting the first overall pick year after year. It's a crap shoot anymore and it's not like the next draft the top 3-5 are absolute generational players. Even if they were like Edmonton it could be years until you "might" compete and we could end up more like Arizona who's been a bottom dweller for years and still no one is picking them to have a shot. This is Hockey not basketball with only 5 men on for almost the whole game where if you get 2-3 legit stars you've got a good chance. No one knows going into the playoffs what teams players may be healthy or not. Also if we battle our way into the playoffs going in with a hot team is a lot better than coasting in like Tampa did (a star studded team) than how St. Louis did working as a team. We do need to get it turned around. The last two games didn't get the result but both were trending in the right direction. Price has a history of bad Novembers and then looking great the rest of the season. We have cap space maybe before the playoffs Romanov does come over and if we're in a playoff spot or close enough we add some piece or pieces at the deadline. Also the playoffs are played differently and called differently. We have a good 5 on 5 team which helps in the playoffs. Did anyone pick Columbus in 4 over Tampa or St. Louis to win it all at the start of the playoffs. To soon for me to give up and tanking doesn't guarantee anything other than disgracing your team and for all those fans that bought tickets season or otherwise ahead of time or even fans like myself that pay for the hockey package to be able to watch my team , now that the seasons going you're telling me this ……….do myself and others get any money back? 

[jeff33]

3 hours ago, CaptWelly said:

I voted no and absolutely not IMO. This isn't like years ago when Edmonton kept getting the first overall pick year after year. It's a crap shoot anymore and it's not like the next draft the top 3-5 are absolute generational players. Even if they were like Edmonton it could be years until you "might" compete and we could end up more like Arizona who's been a bottom dweller for years and still no one is picking them to have a shot. This is Hockey not basketball with only 5 men on for almost the whole game where if you get 2-3 legit stars you've got a good chance. No one knows going into the playoffs what teams players may be healthy or not. Also if we battle our way into the playoffs going in with a hot team is a lot better than coasting in like Tampa did (a star studded team) than how St. Louis did working as a team. We do need to get it turned around. The last two games didn't get the result but both were trending in the right direction. Price has a history of bad Novembers and then looking great the rest of the season. We have cap space maybe before the playoffs Romanov does come over and if we're in a playoff spot or close enough we add some piece or pieces at the deadline. Also the playoffs are played differently and called differently. We have a good 5 on 5 team which helps in the playoffs. Did anyone pick Columbus in 4 over Tampa or St. Louis to win it all at the start of the playoffs. To soon for me to give up and tanking doesn't guarantee anything other than disgracing your team and for all those fans that bought tickets season or otherwise ahead of time or even fans like myself that pay for the hockey package to be able to watch my team , now that the seasons going you're telling me this ……….do myself and others get any money back? 

those teams had legit star power. we do not. no comparison and im getting so tired of people like julien today bringing up the blues, or for that matter the leafs and their turnaround.

this team is completely mediocre. we have a handful of b level "stars" and some interesting prospects, none of whom are in the category of instant difference makers. the future is a long way down the line. If im GM Im shopping everyone. this team is not built for the playoffs even with a little help. we have no top center, no legit sniper, no top pairing guy to round out our d, and our depth is wildly inconsistent. we are like 4 very significant pieces away from being taken seriously. thats not happening overnight.

im 100% in on turning the page

 

[HabsAlways]

Even if its not 1st overall .. I'd rather have a top 5 pick than 16th overall 

[campabee82]

12 minutes ago, HabsAlways said:

Even if its not 1st overall .. I'd rather have a top 5 pick than 16th overall 

Like Kotkaniemi? Or Caufield? I know Caufield went 15th but he was projected to go top 5.

[HabsAlways]

1 minute ago, campabee82 said:

Like Kotkaniemi? Or Caufield? I know Caufield went 15th but he was projected to go top 5.

You can't argue a top 5 is better odds of getting a good player than middle of the pack ... this roster is not going to be fixed by a blockbuster trade (we have nobody to offer) or through continuously drafting in the middle or bottom of the draft.     There is no easy fix that would guarantee us playoff success even if we make the playoffs.   The roster is simply not rounded out properly to do this ... we don't have any game changers in our top 6, we don't have the incredible offensive dman and the roster is getting older and older ... by the time the few really good prospects we have are matured (JK, Poehling, Suzuki, Caufield) ... we'll be having to replace Weber, Petry, Price, Gallagher, Tatar among others.   Its a never ending cycle of mediocrity because the Habs refuse to do what most teams have done in the modern era ... suck it up and suck for a bit.

[campabee82]

1 hour ago, jeff33 said:

those teams had legit star power. we do not. no comparison and im getting so tired of people like julien today bringing up the blues, or for that matter the leafs and their turnaround.

 

I dis agree with this statement Weber, Price and Gallagher are all top players at their position in fact I remember seeing an article about how underrated Gallagher is as he has finished in the top 20 for RW each of the last 3 years. Domi KK and Suzuki are all good centers and KK and Suzuki both have the potential to be top 20 in their position in the next 1-3 years depending on development. As for the sniper you are right, right now we don't have a sniper on the team but Caufield looks to be the real deal and should be with us at the end of this year or next year.

[kinot-2]

Hmmmm, "Fail for Nail", "Lose for Hughes", and now it's "La Tank for Lafreneire".  

[campabee82]

4 minutes ago, HabsAlways said:

You can't argue a top 5 is better odds of getting a good player than middle of the pack ... this roster is not going to be fixed by a blockbuster trade (we have nobody to offer) or through continuously drafting in the middle or bottom of the draft.     There is no easy fix that would guarantee us playoff success even if we make the playoffs.   The roster is simply not rounded out properly to do this ... we don't have any game changers in our top 6, we don't have the incredible offensive dman and the roster is getting older and older ... by the time the few really good prospects we have are matured (JK, Poehling, Suzuki, Caufield) ... we'll be having to replace Weber, Petry, Price, Gallagher, Tatar among others.   Its a never ending cycle of mediocrity because the Habs refuse to do what most teams have done in the modern era ... suck it up and suck for a bit.

With Brook, Norlander, Primeau, Ikonen and others. We already have the replacements in place.