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Philip Danault, with 10 goals and 22 points, would be 1st on the team in scoring with those numbers.

Max Pacioretty with 12 goals and 21 points in just 16 games, would also be first.

Jesperi Kotkaniemi, with 9 goals and 9 assists, in just 12.5 minutes a night, would be leading the Habs in goals with that statistic.

Tomas Tatar, with 8 goals and 9 assists, would be tied for our team lead in goals while playing 15 minutes a night.

Max Domi has the same production as Tatar in just 26 games.

Not to say we'd want all these players back, but I look at this and have to wonder if we'd at least be a bit better off if we had kept the underrated Tatar over the overrated Mike Hoffman or if we had kept the developing Kotkaniemi over the peaked-with-high-minutes-already Dvorak (or just kept the draft picks in the JK send-off rather than swinging them to Arizona at all). Have those two do-overs, don't sign Savard, Perreault, Hoffman, and Paquette, and we're already probably a better team. Could have iced

 

Toffoli-Suzuki-Caufield

Drouin-Kotkaniemi-Anderson

Tatar-Evans-Gallagher

Lehkonen-Vejdemo/Poehling-Ylonen

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2 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

Philip Danault, with 10 goals and 22 points, would be 1st on the team in scoring with those numbers.

Max Pacioretty with 12 goals and 21 points in just 16 games, would also be first.

Jesperi Kotkaniemi, with 9 goals and 9 assists, in just 12.5 minutes a night, would be leading the Habs in goals with that statistic.

Tomas Tatar, with 8 goals and 9 assists, would be tied for our team lead in goals while playing 15 minutes a night.

Max Domi has the same production as Tatar in just 26 games.

Not to say we'd want all these players back, but I look at this and have to wonder if we'd at least be a bit better off if we had kept the underrated Tatar over the overrated Mike Hoffman or if we had kept the developing Kotkaniemi over the peaked-with-high-minutes-already Dvorak (or just kept the draft picks in the JK send-off rather than swinging them to Arizona at all). Have those two do-overs, don't sign Savard, Perreault, Hoffman, and Paquette, and we're already probably a better team. Could have iced

 

Toffoli-Suzuki-Caufield

Drouin-Kotkaniemi-Anderson

Tatar-Evans-Gallagher

Lehkonen-Vejdemo/Poehling-Ylonen

And i must say i cant stand Dvorak body language. He never smile or give any sign after goal that it would means anything to him. While Kotkaniemi is all smile while playing with canes. Who knows how much Dvorak impression effect on locker room atmosphere. 

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5 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

Philip Danault, with 10 goals and 22 points, would be 1st on the team in scoring with those numbers.

Max Pacioretty with 12 goals and 21 points in just 16 games, would also be first.

Jesperi Kotkaniemi, with 9 goals and 9 assists, in just 12.5 minutes a night, would be leading the Habs in goals with that statistic.

Tomas Tatar, with 8 goals and 9 assists, would be tied for our team lead in goals while playing 15 minutes a night.

Max Domi has the same production as Tatar in just 26 games.

Not to say we'd want all these players back, but I look at this and have to wonder if we'd at least be a bit better off if we had kept the underrated Tatar over the overrated Mike Hoffman or if we had kept the developing Kotkaniemi over the peaked-with-high-minutes-already Dvorak (or just kept the draft picks in the JK send-off rather than swinging them to Arizona at all). Have those two do-overs, don't sign Savard, Perreault, Hoffman, and Paquette, and we're already probably a better team. Could have iced

 

Toffoli-Suzuki-Caufield

Drouin-Kotkaniemi-Anderson

Tatar-Evans-Gallagher

Lehkonen-Vejdemo/Poehling-Ylonen

In all fairness, Ted, how many of those former players are playing on teams that have had as many regular players out, that we've had?

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32 minutes ago, kinot-2 said:

In all fairness, Ted, how many of those former players are playing on teams that have had as many regular players out, that we've had?

I’ll let Ted answer but Max has been in just 16 games and has been dominant for Vegas when healthy & if he had stayed healthy he’d be doubling, if not tripling, most of our team. Of course Vegas has a much better team and system.

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6 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

Not to say we'd want all these players back, but I look at this and have to wonder if we'd at least be a bit better off if we had kept the underrated Tatar over the overrated Mike Hoffman or if we had kept the developing Kotkaniemi over the peaked-with-high-minutes-already Dvorak (or just kept the draft picks in the JK send-off rather than swinging them to Arizona at all). Have those two do-overs, don't sign Savard, Perreault, Hoffman, and Paquette, and we're already probably a better team

I guess part of it is what we translate some of those players into at the TD.   If we can trade Hoffman or Savard or Perreault, then you get an asset for nothing which is a positive, it just cost us cap.   

I think it was just a mess of a season but hugely compounded by the fact that MB was horrible at assessing talent and the holes in our roster.  The day he found out Weber was gone he should have been making strides to find a replacement. We sat by as several high profile defensmen were sold off at low value and honed in on Savard as a replacement. :4224:   Weber himself was a shell of his former self but he was 100x better than Alzner 2.0. 

 

21 minutes ago, HabsRuleForever said:

I’ll let Ted answer but Max has been in just 16 games and has been dominant for Vegas when healthy & if he had stayed healthy he’d be doubling, if not tripling, most of our team. Of course Vegas has a much better team and system.

And Max is obviously the one guy we dont want back because that would mean the loss of Suzuki. But yeah, i think the implosion of the entire team has had a negative effect on just about every player on the roster not named Drouin. 

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51 minutes ago, kinot-2 said:

In all fairness, Ted, how many of those former players are playing on teams that have had as many regular players out, that we've had?

 

12 minutes ago, HabsRuleForever said:

I’ll let Ted answer but Max has been in just 16 games and has been dominant for Vegas when healthy & if he had stayed healthy he’d be doubling, if not tripling, most of our team. Of course Vegas has a much better team and system.

Oh, I completely believe that if you played this same season over, we likely wouldn't be doing nearly as badly as we have. But then again, I don't think we'd have made it out of the 1st round of the playoffs very often if we had replayed that series against the Leafs a dozen times over. Some of it's luck, sure. This year and last year though, every team has had its share of injuries and its share of games lost to COVID. Some teams react better to it, others react worse. We've spent the past decade listening to Bergevin whine about how you can't be expected to win with Price out or with Weber out or so on, but while injuries are without a doubt a factor, we really haven't seen anyone step up either.

One of the best facets of this team was supposed to be its forward depth. But we lost Hoffman and Gallagher and Toffoli and Anderson and did we see Caufield rise up or Armia? They've both been terrible offensively and combined, have fewer goals than Pezzetta. Did Suzuki or Drouin blow us away or did they simply play as they were expected to play, maybe even a little below expectations? Did Dvorak come in and step up his game as some predicted he might coming to a "better organization"? Did a youngster seize an opportunity to become a regular top 6 or top 9 player? Did anyone benefit from having newfound PP time? I'd say the answers to those questions were largely no.

So were the injuries the only problem or did they just expose that we have a coach who is out of his league and a bad system and bad special teams? Did the injuries make the defence any better or worse? Sure, Petry was out for some time, but he's been pedestrian when in the line-up. Savard and Chiarot and Romanov have largely been here most of the year. And the rest are a mishmash of guys who could easily be substituted for one another and it wouldn't really matter all that much. It's just a badly-constructed D corps that doesn't fit the modern game. So yeah, the injuries and lack of chemistry-building has hampered us, but we're a bad team for many other reasons too, and there are plenty of organizations that have stayed afloat through injuries and illness. Pittsburgh went through runs without Crosby and Malkin over the past decade. Tampa has had long stretches without Stamkos or Kucherov or both and won back to back Cups. Teams like Colorado and Carolina have found a way to win without starting goalies. So I'll come back to the fact this is a badly-built team with a bad system and bad player development up and down the organization.

As for Max, as HRF said, he's been out most of the year and would still be leading our team in points despite playing half the games. Nonetheless, it was the right move to trade him, simply because his window no longer fit out window in terms of how our roster was built. If MB had made more trades like that one, he'd likely have a better cast to surround Suzuki with and we wouldn't be where we are now. But instead, he dealt Subban for an older player. He didn't trade Weber when he had the chance to get a return. He didn't trade Plekanec and Markov when he had the chance for a better return. He didn't trade Gallagher or Price or Petry when he had the chance. He was content with sitting in no man's land. So ultimately, I think the Pacioretty trade was one of the least of our concerns and actually ended up being a win-win for both teams. But why bench Tatar for the post-season and not re-sign him, then give more term to a worse player in Mike Hoffman? Why deal a young guy like Kotkaniemi who fits your window to win then pay more of a premium to get an older player like Dvorak with a lower ceiling?

The real point of my post was just to show that MB had no direction. If he wanted to win now, he shouldn't have made some of the moves he did and end up with a worse roster. And if he wanted to build for the future, he likewise shouldn't have gone after the likes of Hoffman or Perreault or Savard. He should have thought about turning over some of those minutes to Romanov, Poehling, Ylonen, etc. and not handicapped our cap space with those boneheaded long-term contracts. I've seen so much debate here about whether we should have paid Kotkaniemi 6M for one year and Bergevin spent twice that for 3-4 times the length to add Savard, Dvorak, and Hoffman. I'd rather have had the lower commitment level for the younger player with more upside than spend long-term money on journeymen depth players, and this was always MB's problem. That said, I'm optimistic that Gorton and Hughes have a more reasonable and modern view of the game and how to fix this roster. It just might take a couple of years to undo Bergevin's idiocy.

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On 1/24/2022 at 6:57 PM, kinot-2 said:

Jordan Weal and David Desharnais will play at the Olympics

Might have to check these games out. David Desharnais was always a favourite of mine. Defended him on this site many times. No surprise to me he is still playing and producing. Couple more past Habs on the team. Carr and Barberio, should be an interesting tournament. 

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4 minutes ago, tony5775 said:

Might have to check these games out. David Desharnais was always a favourite of mine. Defended him on this site many times. No surprise to me he is still playing and producing. Couple more past Habs on the team. Carr and Barberio, should be an interesting tournament. 

I hope they broadcast the games,,,, men and women. 

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12 minutes ago, RCAF48 said:

Julien injured and has been replaced by Colliton as Olympic coach.

Thought you were kidding :blush:

 

Claude Julien slipped on ice and sustained fractured ribs today in Davos. It was determined that he will be unable to fly to Beijing to participate in the 2022 Olympic Winter Games due to the injury. Jeremy Colliton will coach Team Canada

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34 minutes ago, RCAF48 said:

Julien injured and has been replaced by Colliton as Olympic coach.

 

19 minutes ago, Regis22 said:

Thought you were kidding :blush:

 

Claude Julien slipped on ice and sustained fractured ribs today in Davos. It was determined that he will be unable to fly to Beijing to participate in the 2022 Olympic Winter Games due to the injury. Jeremy Colliton will coach Team Canada

Even the Ex guys are falling to the injury bug. What a year.

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  • 4 weeks later...
19 hours ago, electron58 said:

Tyler Toffoli in almost 6 games for Calgary Flames, 3 goals & 1 assist, for 4 total points. Calgary is 5-1 with Tofu.

Tyler Toffoli in 6 games for Calgary Flames, 4 goals & 1 assist, for 5 total points. Calgary is 5-1 with Tofu.

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25 minutes ago, electron58 said:

Tyler Toffoli, another goal and assist in Calgary's 5-1 win over Minnesota Wild.  7 games for Calgary Flames, 5 goals & 2 assist, for 7 total points. Calgary is 6-1 with Tofu.

Well, that will stop on Thurs. 

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On 3/6/2022 at 12:03 AM, electron58 said:

Michael McCarron scores 2 goals, including the game winner, and adds 2 assists, for a 4 point night in Nashvilles 8-0 drubbing of the San Jose Sharks.

Wow! good for him!

 

13 hours ago, electron58 said:

Tyler Toffoli, 2 more goals including the game winner in Calgary's 3-1 win over the Edmonton Oilers. Now  has 7g & 3a for 10pts in 10 games with Calgary.

He is a goal scoring machine!

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Hockey Hall of Fame members Guy Lafleur, Lanny McDonald and Kim St-Pierre were named Wednesday to the Order of Hockey in Canada as Distinguished Honorees for 2022.

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