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TRADE DEADLINE - KOVY, THOMPSON, PECA, COUSINS TRADED


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Just now, HabsAlways said:

Which is why I said "at least that" ... and there probably was people willing to pay that, MB however in his myopic delusion believes this roster will compete next season (go listen to his presser today) ... he didn't deal Petry/Tatar as he firmly believes the current roster will be deep in the playoffs next year.   Not because he didn't like the offers, not because they weren't good enough.

do you really expect him to say  "I wanted to trade Petry and Tatar but no one met my price, so plan B is to go on with them on the roster" ? You can't disrespect your players like that. 

I'm 100% on board with MB you don't trade good players like that for anything and you don't move on from elite players like Weber and Price. I don't want to turn into the Leafs or the Oilers

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32 minutes ago, HabsAlways said:

When Pageau gets you a 1st, 2nd and 3rd round pick ... there was a deal out there for Tatar/Petry that nets you at least that.     The problem isn't that MB didn't do anything, it's WHY he did not do anything ... his conviction that this roster will somehow magically compete for the cup next year. 

 

26 minutes ago, habsisme said:

there is no way id give up either guy for a 1 2 and 3. it would have taken a first, an A prospect and roster player, I would have wanted yet another piece for Petry. No one was willing to pay that price, I think MB would have made the move otherwise

This.  People would be (rightly) screaming bloody murder if that had been the return on either tbh. 

21 minutes ago, HabsAlways said:

Which is why I said "at least that" ... and there probably was people willing to pay that

This is pure speculation though. Its not like there was a comparable player that brought back an A level prospect, a 1st and another piece.  Sure, some 1sts were exchanged. Some ok prospects were moved but honestly, nothing today indicated to me that we should have sold Petry or Tatar.  

This does not mean i love Bergevin or that i think he possibly could have done something, it just means its not really justified to call for his head on a day when not really much of anything happened. 

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46 minutes ago, maas_art said:

I think Gallagher, Primeau, Halak, Streit, Markov & Kishel would resent the remark that they were "last week's tickets"   (although i do agree with your sentiment that its unlikely any of the picks we acquired this week will amount to any of those guys.  Ok, maybe Kishel)

 

100% agree with the bold.   Did we get a guy like Byram + 1st for Tatar?  No. But was that even available? Who knows. There wasnt a single deal today where i thought "man we should have flipped petry or tatar for that haul" 

Thankfully we have a whole year to decide what to do with them. They're both great players, it just depends what the long-term plan is. 

 

MB's day was wholly unspectacular but at least it wasnt a negative either. 

The problem is not that he didn't trade Tatar or Petry today. The problems are

1. He still hasn't done enough to build his team. We always talk about him not losing a trade, but the best quote I can find is from Brian Wilde, who said a few months ago that Bergevin is scared to lose a trade but maybe he needs to lose a trade to address a real team need and win the season or win a Cup. Maybe he needs to give up a 1st rounder and a prospect to go and get a #1 LHD. Maybe he needs to gamble in trading Tatar or Weber or Petry that the prospect he gets in return will flourish. He's too scared to take a risk and we get stuck with mediocrity. Bergevin would rather be average forever than to take a risk of being bad in order to take a real shot at winning.

2. He still has no plan. He has no vision. As Richard Labbe of La Presse wrote, he's acquiring draft picks but at the same time refusing to trade veterans, so it's like he's driving with his foot pressed down on the break and gas at the same time. We've been saying the same thing for years: you want to win now? Then trade futures to fill your holes. You want to build for the future? Then trade aging veterans to build up your chances to do so.

Here's Brian Wilde's excellent Call of The Wilde from today... sums up everything I've been saying for more than a year:

https://globalnews.ca/news/6589155/call-of-the-wilde-marc-bergevin-nhl-trade-deadline/

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23 minutes ago, HabsAlways said:

When Pageau gets you a 1st, 2nd and 3rd round pick ... there was a deal out there for Tatar/Petry that nets you at least that.     The problem isn't that MB didn't do anything, it's WHY he did not do anything ... his conviction that this roster will somehow magically compete for the cup next year. 

Pageau’s haul wasn’t exactly a 1st, 2nd and 3rd. I believe the 3rd is only included if the islanders win the cup this year. But regardless, I too am dissatisfied. When I heard that Carolina might be willing to offer Bean and a 1st, I thought maybe we could get a little more added to that package. So holding out and not budging was the right thing to do. But if that was absolutely as good as it was going to get, I think we ought to have taken that trade. Even if nothing else significant materialized, that would have been enough to consider this a good deadline.

We differ in the sense that I do think we can compete as early as next year. I just also think we could have done it just as well if not better with Bean on the team, along with an addiquit replacement for Petry via FA. 

For me, the biggest disappointment is not coming out of this with an extra 1st. At the very least we should have been able to pull that off. It’s been way too long since we picked twice in the top 30. Of you want to rebuild/retool, IMO, the best way isn’t to win the lottery a couple of times (wind up with 2 or 3 players eating up close to 50% of your cap before they’re old enough to grow a moustache), it’s picking as many times in the first round as you can manage. Do that for a few years in a row and you should find yourself with a heck of a roster. This was a good year for that. We had obvious pieces to trade, that could have landed us 1st’s. 

Its one thing to ask for the sun, the moon and a couple of stars for Petry, Tatar or whoever. The problem is actually thinking they are that valuable and refusing to budge when the fish aren’t biting.

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See I agree with MB. Weber is a special player and when I look at Chara, I see no reason to move him. Petry and Tatar, I'd move one of them, but only for the right price. Why give up good players for nothing?

Everyone wants to go younger. Who are these young players going to play with? We can't be better next year, why not? We DID have a ton of injuries, and if you believe in the young players, their infusion to the team we have could make us good enough to compete.

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1 hour ago, habsisme said:

there is no way id give up either guy for a 1 2 and 3. it would have taken a first, an A prospect and roster player, I would have wanted yet another piece for Petry. No one was willing to pay that price, I think MB would have made the move otherwise

 exactly my thinking ...you get at best a late 1st rounder as your best shot at a decent player ...I've seen Montreal pick in that spot too many times already with only Pacioretty at 22nd working out  ...there has to be at the very least an top line prospect and a 1st rounder in the trade for either Tatar or Petry ... maybe teams weren't willing to give that up and we'll never know but that's what Max brought in and that was after a relatively poor year for him

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20 minutes ago, habs1952 said:

I feel bad for Price. 

I don't feel any worse for him than I do for guys like Markov, Plekanec, Subban, Pacioretty, etc. whose primes were wasted on Bergevin sputtering around without a plan and whose primes were wasted on Therrien and Lefebvre being coaches here.

The more I heard from MB today, the more I wonder if my speculation about Price being fed up and maybe having asked for a trade being true.

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4 hours ago, habsisme said:

Everyone wants to go younger. Who are these young players going to play with? We can't be better next year, why not? We DID have a ton of injuries, and if you believe in the young players, their infusion to the team we have could make us good enough to compete.

Every team in the league had injuries.

 

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1 hour ago, BigTed3 said:

I don't feel any worse for him than I do for guys like Markov, Plekanec, Subban, Pacioretty, etc. whose primes were wasted on Bergevin sputtering around without a plan and whose primes were wasted on Therrien and Lefebvre being coaches here.

The more I heard from MB today, the more I wonder if my speculation about Price being fed up and maybe having asked for a trade being true.

Lets say we end up with a top 5 pick. Do you think 1st overall can be had for Price + 5 OVA? 

I know, impossible to speculate because we dont know who gets 1ova  etc. - and of course, Price may only waive his NTC to go to a top 5 team, not the team that won the lottery but still... really wonder if there's going to be some major fireworks at the draft & other parts of the summer trade scene. 

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6 minutes ago, maas_art said:

Lets say we end up with a top 5 pick. Do you think 1st overall can be had for Price + 5 OVA? 

I know, impossible to speculate because we dont know who gets 1ova  etc. - and of course, Price may only waive his NTC to go to a top 5 team, not the team that won the lottery but still... really wonder if there's going to be some major fireworks at the draft & other parts of the summer trade scene. 

Don't know about Price but what team could pass up Tatar + 5 OVA? Tatar is still young enough at 28 or 29 to be a top 6 player on any team for 4 or 5 more years Plus with no trade protection he is easier to move. I still wouldn't want MB doing the trading though

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3 hours ago, habs1952 said:

I feel bad for Price. 

Price drank MB’s Koolaid of being a competitive team to the tune of $10.5 million for the next 7 years - Price knew or ought to have known that was not going to be an easy task. He also knew or ought to have known that  his contract signing was going to be hard to move if things did not go according to the MB “dream”  - these players and their agents  while they want to win, are not dumb when it comes to negotiating financial security 

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35 minutes ago, claremont said:

Price drank MB’s Koolaid of being a competitive team to the tune of $10.5 million for the next 7 years - Price knew or ought to have known that was not going to be an easy task. He also knew or ought to have known that  his contract signing was going to be hard to move if things did not go according to the MB “dream”  - these players and their agents  while they want to win, are not dumb when it comes to negotiating financial security 

If I were Carey, at the draft, of before, I would go to MB and say "I want to be trade to a contender'. Make it happen. 

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4 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

I don't feel any worse for him than I do for guys like Markov, Plekanec, Subban, Pacioretty, etc. whose primes were wasted on Bergevin sputtering around without a plan and whose primes were wasted on Therrien and Lefebvre being coaches here.

The more I heard from MB today, the more I wonder if my speculation about Price being fed up and maybe having asked for a trade being true.

1 playoff appearance in 5 years and people still somehow go easy on MB. He's not getting the job done, it should be clear as day by now.

The only time we've been competitive during his tenure was in the early years, when all he did was tinkering and adding pieces to the solid roster he had inherited. Once he started to build "his team", things went downhill quickly and that's where we still are. Yesterday's presser clearly showed that MB has no vision, no plan at all. We'll hang around with the rest of the bubble teams, hoping for prospects to develop, winning and losing a few games here and there. Good times.

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7 hours ago, maas_art said:

Lets say we end up with a top 5 pick. Do you think 1st overall can be had for Price + 5 OVA? 

I know, impossible to speculate because we dont know who gets 1ova  etc. - and of course, Price may only waive his NTC to go to a top 5 team, not the team that won the lottery but still... really wonder if there's going to be some major fireworks at the draft & other parts of the summer trade scene. 

The short answer is no. If you're Detroit or Ottawa or LA or whoever wins the lottery, you're probably not viewing your Cup window as being the next 3 years and you're probably not paying Price 10.5M to be a mid-30's goalie to lead your team of rookies. A team that would be a fit for Carey would be one that is already on the rise and close to being a Cup contender like a Colorado, Calgary, Edmonton, Florida, Carolina, or so on in my view. I suppose it's possible one of those teams misses the playoffs and wins the lottery, but it's lower odds than our just winning it ourselves.

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15 hours ago, kinot-2 said:

If I were Carey, at the draft, of before, I would go to MB and say "I want to be trade to a contender'. Make it happen. 

Thats all good and fine to say but he needs to put in a spectacular final 1/4 to the season to make that happen.  If he goes through the motion of letting in 2- 3 goals a game you can bet there wouldnt be many takers for his contract. 

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1 hour ago, maas_art said:

Thats all good and fine to say but he needs to put in a spectacular final 1/4 to the season to make that happen.  If he goes through the motion of letting in 2- 3 goals a game you can bet there wouldnt be many takers for his contract. 

For better or worse I think we're hitched to Carey for a good, long while. Bergevin made the mistake when he signed him to that contract. It's an albatross that Carey's never going to be able to live up to. I'm also doubtful we'll be able to trade him without retaining some (how much?) of that salary.

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So was just watching sportcenter and learnt something interesting. Apparently the trade deadline isn't a hard and fast point of no more trades. The CBA allows for trades after the deadline however any player acquired cannot participate in the playoffs. So some teams this year like the Leafs are looking at trading for a D man to replace Muzzin even though the replacement can't play in the playoffs however Muzzin still can IF he makes it back in time. The price now though would be even higher considering how bad the team would need a replacement after the deadline. So a player that would have gotten a second would now get you a second and third. A smart GM would take advantage unfortunately MB isn't that smart

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9 hours ago, campabee82 said:

So was just watching sportcenter and learnt something interesting. Apparently the trade deadline isn't a hard and fast point of no more trades. The CBA allows for trades after the deadline however any player acquired cannot participate in the playoffs. So some teams this year like the Leafs are looking at trading for a D man to replace Muzzin even though the replacement can't play in the playoffs however Muzzin still can IF he makes it back in time. The price now though would be even higher considering how bad the team would need a replacement after the deadline. So a player that would have gotten a second would now get you a second and third. A smart GM would take advantage unfortunately MB isn't that smart

For an explanation of the above refer to video titled "how NHL teams can still make trades after the deadline" its about halfway down the page

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/

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