UFA free agency

[claremont]

1 minute ago, Windoe said:

Dare I say we would be an actual threat to make the playoffs and do some damage with this:

Hall-Kotkaniemi-Anderson
Drouin-Suzuki-Armia
Tatar-Danault-Gallagher
Some collection of Randos to make the Hall cap fit

Chiarot-Weber
Kulak-Petry
Edmundson-Romanov

Price
Allen

I have a feeling that based on Romanov's ability to play the right side of our D (indeed watch some of his youtube highlights and he can play the right side), that he may play the left side first, so your defense lineup may be a little futuristic in the first part of the season. I would expect one of Fleury, and Juulsen or even Brook to play the right side in the first half of a season until Romanov displays some confidence and surety. Either way, I would think Kulak and Mete (who also plays RHD), are insurance d-men and a bit redundant. 

[Windoe]

2 minutes ago, claremont said:

I have a feeling that based on Romanov's ability to play the right side of our D (indeed watch some of his youtube highlights and he can play the right side), that he may play the left side first, so your defense lineup may be a little futuristic in the first part of the season. I would expect one of Fleury, and Juulsen or even Brook to play the right side in the first half of a season until Romanov displays some confidence and surety. Either way, I would think Kulak and Mete (who also plays RHD), are insurance d-men and a bit redundant. 

Yep, totally agree, will be interesting to see how Romanov slots in after a few months into the season.  

As long as our veterans still have enough in the tank (Allen will help), and the cheap talented youth are the real deal, then, with Hall in particular, we would have a nice solid mix that could legitimately surprise for the first time since 2014.
 

 

[maas_art]

1 hour ago, BigTed3 said:

FWIW, Friedman said today that his best guess on where Taylor Hall signs is Montreal. It's completely inconsistent with what MB has said he will do (he's repeatedly said he wants to save money to re-sign his own guys in coming years) but that's what Friedman reported. We would have to move someone out if we signed Hall. Tatar most likely. Maybe Drouin. Maybe Weber, even though that won't happen.

I still feel like MB has a plan to sign/trade for someone big. That comment still sticks with me  "we're going to land a big name winger" (paraphrasing).   That said, logically it would be tricky to figure out where the cap space is coming from but I dont think MB is above dumping salary. I could see him trade mete for a 4th round pick (poor asset management) If he felt he needed the $$. 

[maas_art]

12 minutes ago, claremont said:

I have a feeling that based on Romanov's ability to play the right side of our D (indeed watch some of his youtube highlights and he can play the right side), that he may play the left side first, so your defense lineup may be a little futuristic in the first part of the season. I would expect one of Fleury, and Juulsen or even Brook to play the right side in the first half of a season until Romanov displays some confidence and surety. Either way, I would think Kulak and Mete (who also plays RHD), are insurance d-men and a bit redundant. 

Because of how MB has set up this defense I wouldnt expect Fleury or Brook to see any time  with the big club unless we have a number of injuries. We just have too many people that would have to go through waivers.  Sucks for those 2 guys because barring them just absolutely exploding, i dont think they are going to get a chance this year. 

[Windoe]

Just now, maas_art said:

I still feel like MB has a plan to sign/trade for someone big. That comment still sticks with me  "we're going to land a big name winger" (paraphrasing).   That said, logically it would be tricky to figure out where the cap space is coming from but I dont think MB is above dumping salary. I could see him trade mete for a 4th round pick (poor asset management) If he felt he needed the $$. 

I agree.  MB does alot of tinkering, but he's also got the balls to make a calculated splash.  This might just be the year.

Eating some minor assets (like Mete) to make room for an impactful player (like Hall) makes sense to me given our veteran/youth mix right now.

[claremont]

7 minutes ago, maas_art said:

I still feel like MB has a plan to sign/trade for someone big. That comment still sticks with me  "we're going to land a big name winger" (paraphrasing).   That said, logically it would be tricky to figure out where the cap space is coming from but I dont think MB is above dumping salary. I could see him trade mete for a 4th round pick (poor asset management) If he felt he needed the $$. 

You're right about dumping Mete who was a 4th round pick (#100) that we somewhat developed, and only get a 4th rounder in return - yes that's poor asset mgmt. however having an $81.5 million cap or whatever prior years caps were, and consistently NOT spending close to the cap in that year (correct me if I am wrong but seems to me we always have $5m cap room or close to it every year), is another form of poor asset management. Are we going to criticize him for not sucking and blowing at the same time? To do one, can mean some sacrifice in another area. 

[maas_art]

43 minutes ago, claremont said:

You're right about dumping Mete who was a 4th round pick (#100) that we somewhat developed, and only get a 4th rounder in return - yes that's poor asset mgmt. however having an $81.5 million cap or whatever prior years caps were, and consistently NOT spending close to the cap in that year (correct me if I am wrong but seems to me we always have $5m cap room or close to it every year), is another form of poor asset management. Are we going to criticize him for not sucking and blowing at the same time? To do one, can mean some sacrifice in another area. 

Ive never criticized him for having cap space.  Ive criticized him for not fixing holes that everyone but he seems to be able to see.  The cap space is a biproduct but 'spending to the cap' for the sake of it, makes little sense.

Trading any player for less than their value, when you could have avoided it, is poor asset management.  

[BigTed3]

1 hour ago, maas_art said:

I still feel like MB has a plan to sign/trade for someone big. That comment still sticks with me  "we're going to land a big name winger" (paraphrasing).   That said, logically it would be tricky to figure out where the cap space is coming from but I dont think MB is above dumping salary. I could see him trade mete for a 4th round pick (poor asset management) If he felt he needed the $$. 

He might. But I think to him, acquiring Josh Anderson is landing a big winger. He's a power forward who can score and that's been at the top of his wish list for a while.

[BigTed3]

With Anderson now signed, Habs have about 5.3M in cap space with 11F, 6D, and 2G signed. For argument's sake, let's say they add Evans (750k) and Poehling (925k) to their active roster and re-sign Mete for something like 1.5M AAV. That gives them a hair over 2M left in cap space and they'd still technically have one more roster spot they could fill. Even if that's a league minimum player like Juulsen (700k), then that's down to about 1.4M left to spend.

So I'll come back to "big name" free agents. We're not adding one unless we dump somebody else. Obviously, it's not going to be Anderson, so if the team wants to move a 4M+ salary, it'd have to be one of Drouin, Tatar, or Weber (Petry has a NTC kicking in). Tatar seems like the most likely candidate, but even if you move him, you now have 4.8M + 1.4M = 6.2M in cap space. That's enough to add a Craig Smith or Dadonov but it's not getting you Hall. To get Hall now, you probably need to move out both Tatar and Byron or Tatar and Chiarot or Drouin and one other guy. Is that worth it? Probably not.

[Windoe]

2 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

With Anderson now signed, Habs have about 5.3M in cap space with 11F, 6D, and 2G signed. For argument's sake, let's say they add Evans (750k) and Poehling (925k) to their active roster and re-sign Mete for something like 1.5M AAV. That gives them a hair over 2M left in cap space and they'd still technically have one more roster spot they could fill. Even if that's a league minimum player like Juulsen (700k), then that's down to about 1.4M left to spend.

So I'll come back to "big name" free agents. We're not adding one unless we dump somebody else. Obviously, it's not going to be Anderson, so if the team wants to move a 4M+ salary, it'd have to be one of Drouin, Tatar, or Weber (Petry has a NTC kicking in). Tatar seems like the most likely candidate, but even if you move him, you now have 4.8M + 1.4M = 6.2M in cap space. That's enough to add a Craig Smith or Dadonov but it's not getting you Hall. To get Hall now, you probably need to move out both Tatar and Byron or Tatar and Chiarot or Drouin and one other guy. Is that worth it? Probably not.

Goodbye Tatar Mete and Byron, hellooooooo Taylor!

[BigTed3]

NJ acquires Ryan Murray from Clb for a 5th round pick. Clb definitely clearing cap space for something big tomorrow. But can we also just stop to ask how NJ got Ryan Murray for a 5th when that's the same price we paid for the rights to negotiate with Joel Edmundson? We got screwed here.

[ramcharger440]

In my mind if there was ever a year for us to sign a player like Hall to complement what we have it is this year. i love Byron's heart but he is getting hurt a lot and will be gone in the near future anyways Weal, Lehkonenn and perhaps another play could be lt go to allow for a true sniper to be added to our team right now and we would be a team that could contend right away. remove those three players add what we already have in cap space and we are good to go. we have enough players till in the system that are cheap and servicable enough to replace them to add Hall and his salary. just imagine what we could have as a first and second line! way less one goal games! and chances are we will be the ones to have the extra goal for a change.

 

[Windoe]

Poulin on TSN thinking Frederik Gauthier would be a good fit in MTL, huge, 4C, 55% faceoffs, penalty killer...I could see MB being excited about this. 21st overall in 2013. 

[maas_art]

3 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

With Anderson now signed, Habs have about 5.3M in cap space with 11F, 6D, and 2G signed. For argument's sake, let's say they add Evans (750k) and Poehling (925k) to their active roster and re-sign Mete for something like 1.5M AAV. That gives them a hair over 2M left in cap space and they'd still technically have one more roster spot they could fill. Even if that's a league minimum player like Juulsen (700k), then that's down to about 1.4M left to spend.

So I'll come back to "big name" free agents. We're not adding one unless we dump somebody else. Obviously, it's not going to be Anderson, so if the team wants to move a 4M+ salary, it'd have to be one of Drouin, Tatar, or Weber (Petry has a NTC kicking in). Tatar seems like the most likely candidate, but even if you move him, you now have 4.8M + 1.4M = 6.2M in cap space. That's enough to add a Craig Smith or Dadonov but it's not getting you Hall. To get Hall now, you probably need to move out both Tatar and Byron or Tatar and Chiarot or Drouin and one other guy. Is that worth it? Probably not.

Good analysis.  Our biggest need coming into the off season was RW.  With Anderson he's addressed that, so adding a guy like Dadanov (at the expense of Tatar or Drouin) seems, at best, lateral.  We now have 3 nicely balanced lines.   

I could see him signing Kovalchuk (maybe that bumps Armia to line 4) but thats about it.    Unless the addition (either via UFA or trade) is better than Tatar or Drouin, there's just no point imho. 

[Windoe]

With our young guys maturing ahead of schedule / at least looking like the real deal, MB has got this lineup coming together with the additions of Allen, Edmundson, Anderson imo.

We've got some cap space, we've got 14 picks next year, we've got some quality prospects in the system, we've got quality veterans on the team, quality youth on the team, no bad contracts...I'm actually pretty confident that whatever MB does or doesn't do tomorrow will be the right move(s).

MB pushed me on the Subban-Weber trade, and then finally the straw broke on the Galchenyuk-Domi trade.  But I was wrong about both of those, and now I'm an MB-eliever!

Going to be interesting to see what happens in the next 24 hours. 

[dreegking]

6 hours ago, maas_art said:

I still feel like MB has a plan to sign/trade for someone big. That comment still sticks with me  "we're going to land a big name winger" (paraphrasing).   That said, logically it would be tricky to figure out where the cap space is coming from but I dont think MB is above dumping salary. I could see him trade mete for a 4th round pick (poor asset management) If he felt he needed the $$. 

Would he move Danault fand a first rounder or Laine? that puts us thin at Centre. But loaded with balance eon the wings. Jets want a centre. Ot possibly thin out the right a bit and move Tatar and a first for Laine with a first rounder next year? Gallagher and a first  is an easy swap for roster balances But they are reportedly looking for a Centre.

[dreegking]

2 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

NJ acquires Ryan Murray from Clb for a 5th round pick. Clb definitely clearing cap space for something big tomorrow. But can we also just stop to ask how NJ got Ryan Murray for a 5th when that's the same price we paid for the rights to negotiate with Joel Edmundson? We got screwed here.

nah - Murray doesn't play

[dreegking]

5 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

With Anderson now signed, Habs have about 5.3M in cap space with 11F, 6D, and 2G signed. For argument's sake, let's say they add Evans (750k) and Poehling (925k) to their active roster and re-sign Mete for something like 1.5M AAV. That gives them a hair over 2M left in cap space and they'd still technically have one more roster spot they could fill. Even if that's a league minimum player like Juulsen (700k), then that's down to about 1.4M left to spend.

So I'll come back to "big name" free agents. We're not adding one unless we dump somebody else. Obviously, it's not going to be Anderson, so if the team wants to move a 4M+ salary, it'd have to be one of Drouin, Tatar, or Weber (Petry has a NTC kicking in). Tatar seems like the most likely candidate, but even if you move him, you now have 4.8M + 1.4M = 6.2M in cap space. That's enough to add a Craig Smith or Dadonov but it's not getting you Hall. To get Hall now, you probably need to move out both Tatar and Byron or Tatar and Chiarot or Drouin and one other guy. Is that worth it? Probably not.

how much was the Alzner buy out from a cap perspective

[dreegking]

8 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

By my count, we have more than 6 NHL defencemen now. I think it's a guarantee that we'll see Weber, Petry, Chiarot, Edmundson, and Romanov on the starting roster. That's 5. Now add Mete, Kulak, and Juulsen. That's 3 more guys who would have to clear waivers to be sent down. Fleury could also force their hand, even though he doesn't need waivers to go down. Sure, you can argue the organization doesn't have trust in Juulsen yet, but he's still a former 1st round pick who's looked decent in the short stints he's been able to play. I don't think the Habs will risk losing him for nothing if he's healthy. So either they're going 8 guys on D or they're going to try and trade one of Kulak or Mete. IMO it's a dumb move because Edmundson is the weakest of the bunch, but since they just signed him, they're not trading him.

As far as adds up front go, as I said, I don't expect any kind of big splash. Bergevin has been pretty consistent about not getting suckered into bidding wars and you'd have to think he learned some type of lesson from overpaying Alzner. The biggest fish I could see him going after would be Dadonov. Past that, players like Hoffman, Toffoli, Jankowski, and now Wennberg could be in the mix. And as I said, Kovalchuk and Simmonds have been in rumors. The one guy who has kind of flown under the radar but who fits the type of players MB has been trying to add would be Craig Smith. If you can sign him for something like 2-3 years, 3.5M AAV, then he could be good value as a bottom 6 player.

Romonov is not ready. Edmundson is not Mete either. I think you underestimate how good Mete is and is the only true swing dman who can play top two or mid or lead the third from either side. 

Romanov is a year away. He won't be in the top 6. Edmundson is not special he a true third pairing. 

[dreegking]

On 10/7/2020 at 9:28 PM, BigTed3 said:

I think he'll tinker with his 4th line. Kovalchuk and Simmonds are the two guys we've heard about in rumors. Maybe he adds another veteran center to challenge Evans.

On D, I think he'll trade away at least one of Mete or Kulak. I don't think he's going to sign anyone of note.

I hat not use it but LOL

Evans will be greatly greatly challenged by an in house high draft pick and a teammate. Could easily loose out to him. Depends how they both progress.  

[dreegking]

7 hours ago, MALMACIAN_CRUNCH said:

I’d like to think that if we’re going to make a move for a top LW like Hall, Byron would have to be the contract that we look to unload. Not sure if there would be any buyers, but at 3.5$, that would clear up space nicely

If Byron is avail there will be many takers. He is a highly respected players. Calgary regrets his loss. Speed, leader, PK, and can fit in anywhere outside the top line. He slides in seamlessly alongside almost anyone. He's proven it. 

Hall in? Tatar traded. That's my guess. 

[ChiLla]

If Hall really wants to come here, I‘d definitely trade Tatar and another guy to make room. We‘d have a completely different team offensively with some real skill and balanced lines. I don’t think it‘ll work out though, after the Anderson deal and considering who needs contract extensions next year, we‘d be pretty close to the Cap I believe.

[Windoe]

2 hours ago, ChiLla said:

If Hall really wants to come here, I‘d definitely trade Tatar and another guy to make room. We‘d have a completely different team offensively with some real skill and balanced lines. I don’t think it‘ll work out though, after the Anderson deal and considering who needs contract extensions next year, we‘d be pretty close to the Cap I believe.

Also, if we could keep Tatar, and drop Lehkonen (2.4) and Byron (3.4) for cap purposes (5.8) plus the 5.3 we have gives us: 11.1m free for Hall (point being we could make room for Hall) and parts...top 9 would look above average:

Hall-Kotkaniemi-Anderson
Tatar-Danault-Gallagher
Drouin-Suzuki-Armia
Poehling-Weal-Evans

[electron58]

3 hours ago, ChiLla said:

If Hall really wants to come here, I‘d definitely trade Tatar and another guy to make room. We‘d have a completely different team offensively with some real skill and balanced lines. I don’t think it‘ll work out though, after the Anderson deal and considering who needs contract extensions next year, we‘d be pretty close to the Cap I believe.

Pretty much spot on.  Too many moving pieces have to happen,  and we know Bergevin is only capable of one. That is,  one for one. Anything more than that,  is "too hard" to do.  I don't see any more big signings. Even little ones will be hard.

[claremont]

3 hours ago, electron58 said:

Pretty much spot on.  Too many moving pieces have to happen,  and we know Bergevin is only capable of one. That is,  one for one. Anything more than that,  is "too hard" to do.  I don't see any more big signings. Even little ones will be hard.

A scary part right now is that barring a roster promotion for Evans or Poehling, Weal is our 4th line centre. I’d love to dump Weal but that is a lot of youngsters down the middle in KK, Suzuki with one of those, so that makes Danault so much more valuable. I’m hoping some teams are desperate to shed cap and would be interested in cheaper replacements like Mete, Kulak, Ouellet for even draft choices to compliment their bigger name acquisition. If Tatar cannot be moved, then Bergevin is basically bargain hunting now, as I don’t see him moving Byron or Armia. 
So far IMO MB has improved the backup goaltending, provided more depth on LD (jury deliberations on improvement tbd), strengthened the right wing side, made us bigger, and not mortgaged the future by trading away top draft picks. The draft was just so so for me.  Not horrible but I am hoping for a little more.