2020-21 State Of The Habs

[maas_art]

1 hour ago, richard464 said:

Very true but they did not arrive there by means of the stork! We have never had a first overall with the highest being 3rd in the first round in the history of the draft. Galchenyuk & KK. So what makes that happen? Why were the Leafs able to put this together and we were not? Bergevin that's why! Also Molson is too busy with his beer industry and could care less what the hell the hockey team is doing!

Well they got 7 top ten picks in a 9 year span because they were terrible.  I am not sure the fans want a decade of missing the playoffs... 

[campabee82]

2 hours ago, richard464 said:

Very true but they did not arrive there by means of the stork! We have never had a first overall with the highest being 3rd in the first round in the history of the draft. Galchenyuk & KK. So what makes that happen? Why were the Leafs able to put this together and we were not? Bergevin that's why! Also Molson is too busy with his beer industry and could care less what the hell the hockey team is doing!

Just a note not criticism but the Habs had the 1st OVA pick twice since 1970. In 71 they selected Lefleur and in 80 they took Wickenheiser. But I get what you are saying brutally that really means IMO is that over the last 50 years Montreal has been better than the Leafs and have been a playoff team for the majority and isn't that the goal to put your team in the playoffs year after year with a shot no matter how small it is at winning the cup.

[electron58]

11 hours ago, claremont said:

After watching last night’s game I think they waived the wrong defenseman- I’ve lost so much faith in Weber and his leadership, that I would induce any team Beyond Seattle to take that salary, cap, retention, pay the $6 million for next year, move on etc. 

Careful.  Too many die hard Weber fans.

[H_T_L]

14 minutes ago, campabee82 said:

Just a note not criticism but the Habs had the 1st OVA pick twice since 1970. In 71 they selected Lefleur and in 80 they took Wickenheiser. But I get what you are saying brutally that really means IMO is that over the last 50 years Montreal has been better than the Leafs and have been a playoff team for the majority and isn't that the goal to put your team in the playoffs year after year with a shot no matter how small it is at winning the cup.

In the last 50+ years since the Leafs last sniffed the cup we've won it 10 times if we're comparing histories. For all the sucking the Leafs have had, their drafting hasn't got them squat so far,,, not even a cup final appearance. Every year i hear about how great these guys are from the local media and how much of a contender they've been for the last 5 years. What's that got them again??

[maas_art]

2 minutes ago, electron58 said:

Careful.  Too many die hard Weber fans.

I dont think anyone is making excuses for Weber right now. He's been brutal. He'd be the first one to tell you that too. 

[electron58]

3 hours ago, richard464 said:

The Canadiens francise is a business. It needs to be operated like any other business. I can assure you that there are not too many business owners that would build their business on a promise of one million dollars of purchase orders over the next two years. Based on that this business cannot be built on the promise of young talent that has been signed. These prospects are based on statistics that show 37% of first round picks will play less than 200 games in the NHL. That changes to 70% for second rounders and 89% for fifth+. There are no guarantees here so relying on our best prospects does not create a feeling of a prosperous future. It takes good management and that is one thing this franchise does not have at this time. This includes owner through the coach.

In 2018 Dubas took over the reigns in Toronto. He took a floundering team that had a record of 46-28-100pts to the team on the ice today. They are a contending team for sure depsite the fact that they have weaknesses that any good qualified coach could exploit. However the fact remains that in the time he became the Mgr he has blown past Bergevin who is considered by many as being a very smart individual. He knew where the holes were and he went ahead and filled them. Yes he has added some wiley veterans but they are doing the job they are being paid for. He is a smart guy and while he was here in the Sault he built a real strong Jr "A" franchise in less than three years. We all knew he was destined to the NHL and he has since shown just how knowledgable he is in regards to talent and the analytics that are required to plan ahead. MB is an old style manager that feels more comfortable keeping around the old guard and not taking the risk. He made a couple of great moves over the summer with Toffoli & Anderson but Stahl & Perry are questionable. However in Perry's defence he has scored more goals than our infamous #92. When you look at the overall production of the new guys they have scored 43 goals. (Tofolli, Anderson,Perry) The combination of (Suzuki,Gallagher,KK,Drouin,Danault, Byron,Lecky) have scored 40 goals. So where would we be without those moves.If we are going to "wait for our best prospects to fill in the holes" then this franchise will continue to flounder around for many year to come. What has to happen is MB has to pack his suitcase and we need to bring in manager that is in tune with today's talent and is able to take the opportunity when it is there to build the team now. We also need a good coach and we should be choosing from across the field not just french speaking individuals. I am not sure but that in today's environment has some racist tones to it. He had many opportunities to trade off Price I am sure but declined. From what I have seen Carey is on a steep slope along with Weber, Chiarot, Edmunson etc.

Although the post from "BigTed" is on the money, I do not beleive that we should be relying too heavily on our prospects. It is not too difficult to find the stats on a great number of top prospects that fell on their face in the big arena. There needs to be a good mix of solid veterans and young prospects to make this work. The fans are not going to accept waiting around another 10 years for this team to become a contender. An early start to this taking place is for MB to find a new home.

Yeah That's a long read. I  would  like to say, that there was an opportunity to get Pat Laine, Pierre Luc Dubois, and even Vince Dunn, possibly Matt Dumba. I 've always been an advocate of best player acquired team wins trade. You can even argue the Paccioretty trade.(been so long, can't remember how to spell it) I think Vegas does it again & again. The point being, if you don't have any studs,  you don't really have any one to build around.

[electron58]

9 hours ago, Regis22 said:

Remaining games

Flames 4

Ottawa 3

Edmonton 4

Winnipeg 1

Toronto  4

I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if they miss the playoffs 

 

Could happen.  Too bad no more Vancouver match ups.

[electron58]

7 hours ago, habby67 said:

As long as MB is in charge there is no way he’ll let Weber or Price go. By doing this it would suggest he failed and he’ll have none of that. Sad to say but we won’t make a good run at the cup so the team would be better off missing the playoffs and maybe ownership will snap out of it and fire MB and install A president.

Then let bergevin go down with the ship. It sucks that he's dragging us all down with him.

[electron58]

7 hours ago, maas_art said:

Good article here:Ducharme facing tough decisions spark canadiens team speed

With Merrill and Gustafsson in quarantine and Chairot set to come back, i wonder if DD will consider some load-management for Weber prior to the end of the season.  Whether he's nursing an injury or just gassed, getting him a bit of rest wouldnt be the worst idea.   

 

At some point DD is going to have to make some tough choices -  if he doesnt, the 'interim' part of his title will never be removed imho. 

 

Oh, it'll be removed. The whole title!

[electron58]

6 hours ago, claremont said:

I am going to guess by impact player, you would mean players who would be in the top 5-10 skaters on anyone's team with a top or strong goalie. That is your first 2 lines can score and defend. By my standards, next year we only have 4 - Gallagher, Petry, Anderson, Toffoli and a big maybe in Price as a strong goalie (three of which Gally, JP, Price will only be in that top 10 for next year plus likely 1 more). KK or Suzuki you have correctly indicated as ?'s and the way they lose faceoffs. The way Romanov has performed this year, I believe he can be a 5th (but on the 2nd pairing). The leaves 5 more impact players required which is asking a lot of Caufield out of the gate as a 6th. We've all talked about the need for a strong LHD, and a strong centre (I don't think we have the bananas and cap room to throw at Eichel). So yes from being a true contender we need to get rid of a number of ill fitting pieces and have some significant surprises. 

For me, none of those players are impact players. Price, maybe in his prime, no more. Weber, in his prime, never with the Habs. The rest, high end players and nothing more. To me, impact players are difference makers. Somebody that will get you a goal when you need it most. Lafleur was an impact player & Lemaire drove him out of Montreal. Right now,  we have no real impact players. Here's hoping, that CC turns into that for us. May as well have a look at him. 

 

[electron58]

3 hours ago, richard464 said:

Very true but they did not arrive there by means of the stork! We have never had a first overall with the highest being 3rd in the first round in the history of the draft. Galchenyuk & KK. So what makes that happen? Why were the Leafs able to put this together and we were not? Bergevin that's why! Also Molson is too busy with his beer industry and could care less what the hell the hockey team is doing!

Where did Guy Lafleur go?

How about Wickenheiser?

[electron58]

40 minutes ago, maas_art said:

I dont think anyone is making excuses for Weber right now. He's been brutal. He'd be the first one to tell you that too. 

Yet when interviewed, he said that he should play more. Not the response I would expect from a Leader,  that is hurting his team.

[electron58]

6 hours ago, H_T_L said:

From TSN,,,,

The Calgary Flames pulled to within three points of the Montreal Canadiens in the race for the final North Division playoff spot with their 4-1 win on Wednesday. Though the Canadiens have three games in hand on Calgary, centre Nick Suzuki pushed the team for urgency.

I'm guessing math is not a pre requisite to work for TSN

Or common sense. Are they really that oblivious?

[maas_art]

3 minutes ago, electron58 said:

Yet when interviewed, he said that he should play more. Not the response I would expect from a Leader,  that is hurting his team.

You expect ANY professional athlete to say "I suck, i should get scratched?" 

 

What he said in that interview was pretty much what any hockey player would say.  Of course he wants to play more. Just because he knows he's sucked it doesnt mean he thinks he cant reboud or that his career is over.   

 

[electron58]

2 minutes ago, maas_art said:

You expect ANY professional athlete to say "I suck, i should get scratched?" 

 

What he said in that interview was pretty much what any hockey player would say.  Of course he wants to play more. Just because he knows he's sucked it doesnt mean he thinks he cant reboud or that his career is over.   

 

So maybe he's fooling more than the media. Maybe he's fooling DD & bergevin. He keeps playing more & more. Maybe,  they hope Weber breaks down and the decision is made for them. From the first game of the season,  they should have been limiting Weber's ice time. Now, it's biting them.

[campabee82]

56 minutes ago, H_T_L said:

In the last 50+ years since the Leafs last sniffed the cup we've won it 10 times if we're comparing histories. For all the sucking the Leafs have had, their drafting hasn't got them squat so far,,, not even a cup final appearance. Every year i hear about how great these guys are from the local media and how much of a contender they've been for the last 5 years. What's that got them again??

That was exactly what I was saying lol. Having 1st OVA picks are great on paper but add up to diddly squat on the ice! At least until one or 2 of them hit their potential. How many 1st OV picks have the Oilers had since 2012? 4 or something like that, IF 1st OVA meant a shot at the cup then Edmonton would have 3 or 4 by now.

[CaptWelly]

2 hours ago, caperns61 said:

Because they won a draft lottery and we didnt. 

That alone can make a huge difference. Take away all of Edmonton's #1 overall picks , where would they be. Also two things with that Edmonton still isn't considered a contender yet. (though with Ken Holland now in place that may change)and Edmonson stole (or was given McDavid when Buffalo should of had him) Does the draft lottery make it different ask Detroit? Worst record 4th pick? Total BS. I'm not saying Bergereon is great just Dubois hasn't won the cup yet. he also added a few older players this year which most thought were questionable. Foligno may be a nice piece to make a cup run but he did give up a first rounder for a rental? If they don't bring home Stanley was that a smart move?

[electron58]

16 minutes ago, CaptWelly said:

That alone can make a huge difference. Take away all of Edmonton's #1 overall picks , where would they be. Also two things with that Edmonton still isn't considered a contender yet. (though with Ken Holland now in place that may change)and Edmonson stole (or was given McDavid when Buffalo should of had him) Does the draft lottery make it different ask Detroit? Worst record 4th pick? Total BS. I'm not saying Bergereon is great just Dubois hasn't won the cup yet. he also added a few older players this year which most thought were questionable. Foligno may be a nice piece to make a cup run but he did give up a first rounder for a rental? If they don't bring home Stanley was that a smart move?

I think Dubas can afford giving up picks, because they seem to sign UFA college players & European players with ease. Plus,  they have quite a few blue chip prospects,  not in the NHL.

And for sure, Dubas > bergevin !

[habs1952]

55 minutes ago, CaptWelly said:

Foligno may be a nice piece to make a cup run but he did give up a first rounder for a rental? If they don't bring home Stanley was that a smart move?

Considering where the Laffs will be picking in this years draft , probably. 

[BigTed3]

12 hours ago, Regis22 said:

  4

what do you consider as an impact player ?

I didn't say anyone in particular would be an impact player, just that it's going to take time for those youngsters to develop and become impact players. FWIW, if you're asking me to project...

 

- I think Norlinder has a chance at being a top-pairing D man. He could flop, but there's potential there to be a top pairing guy.

- Caufield has a chance at being a 30+ goal player.

- I really like Ylonen. I don't think he'll be a top-line player but he could be a strong middle-6 winger and provide production akin to what we've gotten from Tatar in recent years.

- I think Harris and Struble have outside shots at being top 4 guys. I'm less sold on Guhle than some of the hockey world, in that I think he can be a solid NHLer but I'm not sure he's a top-pairing guy. Still too early to know though obviously.

- I think Primeau can be an NHL starter.

- Poehling maybe a 3C, not sure the odds are great for being a regular top 6 guy.

- And of course, Suzuki and JK should continue to improve. Question is what their ceiling is. As I've said before, I think they can be a reasonable duo like Plekanec-Koivu but not certain either will be a top 10-15 center in the league.

[electron58]

This never gets old.  

 

That's our leader?  nuff said.

[jennifer_rocket]

12 hours ago, electron58 said:

I think Dubas can afford giving up picks, because they seem to sign UFA college players & European players with ease. Plus,  they have quite a few blue chip prospects,  not in the NHL.

And for sure, Dubas > bergevin !

Yeah, Dubas seems to be doing pretty darn well in Toronto. People constantly give them flack for their "cap problems..." However... They have an exciting team, they have superstar players, they are a contender (IMO), and I'm sure the fanbase cares less about giving up what will probably be a pick somewhere between 26th-31st.

[claremont]

Wow - caufield up on the taxi squad - guess they want him to practice with the big club and or play while waiting out the mariles covid situation

[richard464]

20 minutes ago, claremont said:

Wow - caufield up on the taxi squad - guess they want him to practice with the big club and or play while waiting out the mariles covid situation

He could use #92 uniform if needed. Has not been soiled from sweat stains in three years! But then again maybe it is the #92 that is cursed? Better he has his own new duds!

[claremont]

https://montrealgazette.com/sports/hockey/nhl/hockey-inside-out/what-the-puck-webers-woes-symbolic-of-canadiens-recent-struggles?utm_term=Autofeed&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR2gRhc-SgOIoIUjX4wa-apWA-EM9IG_Dq7MRPicGxxBMFK5a3cBRDeVX-g#Echobox=1618596875
 

someone is stealing Ted’s material - Echo Echo!