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2020-21 State Of The Habs


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3 minutes ago, electron58 said:

Yes. I think our last game vs. Oilers. 

Well, that helps a little. Gives us a good rest before playoffs start now, with the season extended yet again. That's assuming we get in of course. Tonight's win sure helped.

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5 minutes ago, H_T_L said:

Well, that helps a little. Gives us a good rest before playoffs start now, with the season extended yet again. That's assuming we get in of course. Tonight's win sure helped.

Big time. Win the next, and then we don't have to win any more.

Til the playoffs. 

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  • That was one of the more awful performances of the year. The turnovers or giveaways that resulted in scoring chances or zone time for Calgary was crazy. Yet we get the first goal and they hit 3 posts ( 2 within a few seconds on the PP). Just when we appear to play a little better,  a backhand shot from his knees goes in off Chiarot. It was great to see us pull off the win. I am beginning to worry a little about Ducharme as our play keeps diminishing. In the 2 games against Calgary we lost a lot of the face-offs in our zone and I am not sure if we're putting our best faceoff ma out there for the draw or just getting dominated by opposing centers. It is early but we have lost a few lately and our wins are looking a little more ugly.
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3 hours ago, Habberwacky said:
  • That was one of the more awful performances of the year. The turnovers or giveaways that resulted in scoring chances or zone time for Calgary was crazy. Yet we get the first goal and they hit 3 posts ( 2 within a few seconds on the PP). Just when we appear to play a little better,  a backhand shot from his knees goes in off Chiarot. It was great to see us pull off the win. I am beginning to worry a little about Ducharme as our play keeps diminishing. In the 2 games against Calgary we lost a lot of the face-offs in our zone and I am not sure if we're putting our best faceoff ma out there for the draw or just getting dominated by opposing centers. It is early but we have lost a few lately and our wins are looking a little more ugly.

It is the stretch run to the playoffs, this is the point in the season where most wins are ugly wins. That being said you still have to play well and gut it out. I didn't see the game but I will take your word for it that we didn't play well and didn't deserve the win.

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Here are my 3/4 way grades:

Goalies:

- Allen: A-... overall a stellar season. He's been our better goalie.

- Price: C-... well short of expectations.

D-men:

- Petry: A-... some struggles off and on of late but still our best D man on the whole.

- Kulak: B... solid most of the time in various roles.

- Romanov: B-... there's been improvement. He skates well and he's a big hitter too. Next a bit of offence would bring his game to another level.

- Edmundson: B-... keeps it simple and having a decent season, although we saw how much he struggled when not next to Petry. He's being carried.

- Ouellet: D... he's a below-average 3rd pairing D man

- Chiarot: D-... he's an average 3rd-pairing D man who has played poorly in the top 4. Bad penalties, bad decisions.

- Weber: F... the single biggest reason for many of our failures this year. Way too many awful turnovers, bad penalties, and failures to mark his man. He's hurting the team right now, and he can't continue to play the minutes he's getting.

Forwards:

- Toffoli: A... had some letdown in the middle of the year, but 20 goals in under 40 games is an over-40 goal pace.

- Kotkaniemi: A-... impressed by his progression this season.

- Anderson: A-... a unique skillset that he uses well.

- Gallagher: A-... was having a decent season until he got hurt.

- Tatar: B... seems to have turned his season around, much better in the past few weeks.

- Danault: B... same as Tatar, has turned his year around.

- Suzuki: B-... great start, lacklustre middle, now maybe picking up again, but feel off the learning curve a bit.

- Drouin: C+... some flashes of brilliance and other games where he needs to get more involved.

- Perry: C+... great on the PP, average at ES because his lack of footspeed doesn't quite compensate for his hands and effort.

- Lehkonen: C+... strong defensively, but has regressed offensively over the years.

- Armia: C... needs to find consistency.

- Evans: C-... he's shown he's a rookie and needs some time to grow.

- Byron: D... not worth his contract.

- Staal: F... he looks done.

 

Coach and GM:

- Ducharme: C-... hasn't really done much to turn the team around. His record is barely floating above .500, he hasn't been able to generate scoring out of his constantly-changing forward lines, and his insistence on playing Weber on the first pairing is costing us. He talked big talk about being a new age coach but his strategy has been no different than Julien or Therrien's.

- Bergevin: D... as before, several good acquisitions in the summer (Anderson, Toffoli, Allen, etc) but he's failed to address the left side of the D, his deadline trades showed a lack of understanding of what is needed to win in today's NHL, and he still has no vision for winning a Cup. He's not building to win now and he missed his window to trade Weber and Price and bring back value for a future Cup window.

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9 hours ago, Habberwacky said:
  • That was one of the more awful performances of the year. The turnovers or giveaways that resulted in scoring chances or zone time for Calgary was crazy. Yet we get the first goal and they hit 3 posts ( 2 within a few seconds on the PP). Just when we appear to play a little better,  a backhand shot from his knees goes in off Chiarot. It was great to see us pull off the win. I am beginning to worry a little about Ducharme as our play keeps diminishing. In the 2 games against Calgary we lost a lot of the face-offs in our zone and I am not sure if we're putting our best faceoff ma out there for the draw or just getting dominated by opposing centers. It is early but we have lost a few lately and our wins are looking a little more ugly.

Definitely have to agree! They were once again very sloppy and if it wasn't for Allen and the goal posts this would have been a loss. Far too many mistakes in the D zone and very sloppy breakout passes from the D. I have posted many times before that DD is not the guy to coach this team. His interviews pretty well sum up his ability to handle this team. There has been no major change to the team and they are floundering. They will play Ottawa today and these kids are playing pretty well right now. If we repeat last night we will not be able to stay with this team and will be chasing the game all afternoon.

What happened to the PP? It looked good for a while but now is totally out of sync. Not sure who will start today but if it is Price it will be interesting to see just how he plays. He will need to be very sharp against this team.

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1 hour ago, BigTed3 said:

Here are my 3/4 way grades:

A reasonable evaluation but I would have the following comments - Romanov B+ (you B-) - I would measure him vs. rookie expectations and he's playing both sides fairly adequately with a great physical presence and seems to make the right pass with poise and patience. He's been getting some point shots - nothing going in other than breaking Gally's hand. Danault C (you B ) - I see nothing of value that makes me want to resign him at least with Tatar I see some desire, intensity and creativity. Lehkonen C- (you C+) - Similar comments as Danault - He's RFA, and defensive forwards can be a dime a dozen. Resigning for 1 year or trade bait / give away concession is my call. Drouin (C-, you C+) Has good passing and set up vision, but 2 goals in whatever, is still very disappointing to me vs. the value so I give him below the class average here. Bergevin  C (you D) - Sure he has a historical albatross on his neck but I evaluate him on this season not the past, and give him points for not giving away the farm in a panic trade deadline for this year. My expectations were that the team would be improved and make the playoffs so he gets the class average as he's delivering on that. He put a little too much faith in KK and Suzuki and Danault, and the "rebound" players who recover from prior year's performances. I did not expect him to build to truly win now as you say, but rather get some degree of a team on the upside, so we may differ on degree. I see glimpses of a plan built on some youthful prospects, a winning culture in Laval with Bouchard, patience with prospects. The off season dumps of some players, and drafting / acquiring better centre depth, RHD and acquiring a better LHD for 2 years while we wait for our D prospects to come online would give me more confidence. I hope that he has learned the errors of his previous stupid reset plan or lack thereof. I see Molson giving him a 1 year extension to be truthful - anything more is a travesty. 

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28 minutes ago, claremont said:

A reasonable evaluation but I would have the following comments - Romanov B+ (you B-) - I would measure him vs. rookie expectations and he's playing both sides fairly adequately with a great physical presence and seems to make the right pass with poise and patience. He's been getting some point shots - nothing going in other than breaking Gally's hand. Danault C (you B ) - I see nothing of value that makes me want to resign him at least with Tatar I see some desire, intensity and creativity. Lehkonen C- (you C+) - Similar comments as Danault - He's RFA, and defensive forwards can be a dime a dozen. Resigning for 1 year or trade bait / give away concession is my call. Drouin (C-, you C+) Has good passing and set up vision, but 2 goals in whatever, is still very disappointing to me vs. the value so I give him below the class average here. Bergevin  C (you D) - Sure he has a historical albatross on his neck but I evaluate him on this season not the past, and give him points for not giving away the farm in a panic trade deadline for this year. My expectations were that the team would be improved and make the playoffs so he gets the class average as he's delivering on that. He put a little too much faith in KK and Suzuki and Danault, and the "rebound" players who recover from prior year's performances. I did not expect him to build to truly win now as you say, but rather get some degree of a team on the upside, so we may differ on degree. I see glimpses of a plan built on some youthful prospects, a winning culture in Laval with Bouchard, patience with prospects. The off season dumps of some players, and drafting / acquiring better centre depth, RHD and acquiring a better LHD for 2 years while we wait for our D prospects to come online would give me more confidence. I hope that he has learned the errors of his previous stupid reset plan or lack thereof. I see Molson giving him a 1 year extension to be truthful - anything more is a travesty. 

I'm inclined to agree with your assessment,  a little more than BigTed3. Same reasoning, maybe a little too tough on Romanov & Lehkonen. I give Romanov,  Lehkonen & Evans a 'B' as they are providing exactly what is expected of them. 2 being rookies & one being a very dependable defensive forward. They do not cost us games. As for bergevin? 'D' was the appropriate grade. He NEEDED to upgrade on LD. He failed miserably! You can not sign everyone.  They have a 50 player quota, that they can not go over, and I think they are around 48-49. They did not sign a couple Juniors last year, when they had to make a choice,  and eventually signed one of the 3. Can't remember his name. So, he had an opportunity to couple some players with draft picks for upgrades, and did not.

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3 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

Here are my 3/4 way grades:

Goalies:

- Allen: A-... overall a stellar season. He's been our better goalie.

- Price: C-... well short of expectations.

D-men:

- Petry: A-... some struggles off and on of late but still our best D man on the whole.

- Kulak: B... solid most of the time in various roles.

- Romanov: B-... there's been improvement. He skates well and he's a big hitter too. Next a bit of offence would bring his game to another level.

- Edmundson: B-... keeps it simple and having a decent season, although we saw how much he struggled when not next to Petry. He's being carried.

- Ouellet: D... he's a below-average 3rd pairing D man

- Chiarot: D-... he's an average 3rd-pairing D man who has played poorly in the top 4. Bad penalties, bad decisions.

- Weber: F... the single biggest reason for many of our failures this year. Way too many awful turnovers, bad penalties, and failures to mark his man. He's hurting the team right now, and he can't continue to play the minutes he's getting.

Forwards:

- Toffoli: A... had some letdown in the middle of the year, but 20 goals in under 40 games is an over-40 goal pace.

- Kotkaniemi: A-... impressed by his progression this season.

- Anderson: A-... a unique skillset that he uses well.

- Gallagher: A-... was having a decent season until he got hurt.

- Tatar: B... seems to have turned his season around, much better in the past few weeks.

- Danault: B... same as Tatar, has turned his year around.

- Suzuki: B-... great start, lacklustre middle, now maybe picking up again, but feel off the learning curve a bit.

- Drouin: C+... some flashes of brilliance and other games where he needs to get more involved.

- Perry: C+... great on the PP, average at ES because his lack of footspeed doesn't quite compensate for his hands and effort.

- Lehkonen: C+... strong defensively, but has regressed offensively over the years.

- Armia: C... needs to find consistency.

- Evans: C-... he's shown he's a rookie and needs some time to grow.

- Byron: D... not worth his contract.

- Staal: F... he looks done.

 

As much as I do not want to, I agree with the evaluation of Ducharme and may even put him at a D. I wonder how much the fact we have so many veterans in the line-up is influencing his decisions. Staal was brutal last night (based on last night and the turnovers he had on one shift I would put him below F if possible) and has tailed off significantly, and while I still have some faith in Weber to turn it around, it may be too late. My problem with Weber is his biggest asset is his shot and he has gone to the wrister too much. Defensively he has also stopped hitting  Weber looked pretty effective in the playoffs just a few short months ago. I give Bergevin a little better grade B as the farm system is headed in the right direction and others need to be responsible for the product on the ice as well.

As for the other players, I have a slight bias for Byron and believe he is one of the few players who is playing at a more consistent and reliable level  despite injuries. B. Evans is a smart players who needs to be in the lineup and getting Armia back is a huge improvement for the PK and the bottom 6 forwards. I like Perry's ability to stir things up and would give him a B. I am actually surprised he has been able to sustain a pretty consistent level of play. Having said that Ducharme needs to keep things fresh and give Staal and Perry some time off. He may be riding them until we clinch, but we need to keep the energy up.

Defensively Kulak has been a nice surprise this year, Petry despite the hot start, has been the worst D man for at least 10 games (see the minus 5) and Edmundsen has also been up and down. As a group the passing over the last 15 games has not been good when trying to exit our own end. As I write this it seem Romanov and his partner have been the only pairing currently living up to expectations. It will be interesting to see Chiarot and Weber as they had some good chemistry before Chiarot went down.

We have shown stretches of excellent play and the goals against is improving but we have a ways to go to be successful in the playoffs. Time for Ducharme to show us what he can do.

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8 hours ago, campabee82 said:

It is the stretch run to the playoffs, this is the point in the season where most wins are ugly wins. That being said you still have to play well and gut it out. I didn't see the game but I will take your word for it that we didn't play well and didn't deserve the win.

After I wrote the comment you responded to I had to go check the game stats as I was sure we gave the puck away more than I may have ever seen before. The stats said 30, but it felt like 50. Any way you cut it it was ugly. We deserved the win as more often than not teams come in and play badly but still manage to beat us some how, so it was nice to see us get the ugly 2 points. We're due a few more wins like this although it would be nice to win because we're the better team on the ice, but that hasn't happened this month. Maybe the win against the OIlers fits that niche, but we are getting outplayed in our own end and it has been very ugly.

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Do we have an elite center (top 10-15 center in the league)? No.

Do we have a top 31 center in the league? Also no. We have two guys who could become that, but no one who is currently a true 1C.

Do we have an elite winger (top 20 winger in the league)? No.

Do we have an elite LHD? Nope. Not even sure we have a top 62 D LHD in the league and as I said in the GDT, the last time we had a true top-pairing LHD was when Markov was great, maybe 7-8 years ago.

Do we have an elite RHD? Maybe. Petry is a strong RHD, but he also isn't on the same level as a guy like D men like Makar, Hedman, Heiskanen, Jones, etc. who can play 22-25 minutes a night for an entire season. Petry has shown he can't play those big minutes without wearing down, so he needs better support to keep him at an elite level.

Do we have a top 15 goalie in the league? Also no, and if anything Allen looks closer to that than Price this year.

 

The Habs have some depth at wing, but they have a below-average D corps with a glaring lack of depth, average goaltending, and a need for time to develop skill/depth at center. This team remains really poorly-constructed, with no true direction.

 

 

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1 hour ago, BigTed3 said:

Do we have an elite center (top 10-15 center in the league)? No.

Do we have a top 31 center in the league? Also no. We have two guys who could become that, but no one who is currently a true 1C.

Do we have an elite winger (top 20 winger in the league)? No.

Do we have an elite LHD? Nope. Not even sure we have a top 62 D LHD in the league and as I said in the GDT, the last time we had a true top-pairing LHD was when Markov was great, maybe 7-8 years ago.

Do we have an elite RHD? Maybe. Petry is a strong RHD, but he also isn't on the same level as a guy like D men like Makar, Hedman, Heiskanen, Jones, etc. who can play 22-25 minutes a night for an entire season. Petry has shown he can't play those big minutes without wearing down, so he needs better support to keep him at an elite level.

Do we have a top 15 goalie in the league? Also no, and if anything Allen looks closer to that than Price this year.

 

The Habs have some depth at wing, but they have a below-average D corps with a glaring lack of depth, average goaltending, and a need for time to develop skill/depth at center. This team remains really poorly-constructed, with no true direction.

 

 

I hate to disagree with this cause so much of it is true but here are the 2 I disagree with.

1 elite winger we actually have 2 and 8f Drouin would smarten up a bit I would say 3. Gallagher ranks 5th in the NHL for 5 on 5 goals over the last 3 seasons and not only that but also ranks in the top 5 of many other advanced stats categories see link. The second player is Toffoli who right now sits 11 goals behind Matthew's for the league lead. When was the last time we had a top 10 scorer this close to the end of the season?

2 Petry is 2 goals behind the league leader in goals by a D man while playing 22-25 minutes a night with 14 games left in the season and gives up nothing defensively. I would say that ranks him in the top 15 of the league maybe even top 5 for RHD. 

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1 hour ago, campabee82 said:

I hate to disagree with this cause so much of it is true but here are the 2 I disagree with.

1 elite winger we actually have 2 and 8f Drouin would smarten up a bit I would say 3. Gallagher ranks 5th in the NHL for 5 on 5 goals over the last 3 seasons and not only that but also ranks in the top 5 of many other advanced stats categories see link. The second player is Toffoli who right now sits 11 goals behind Matthew's for the league lead. When was the last time we had a top 10 scorer this close to the end of the season?

2 Petry is 2 goals behind the league leader in goals by a D man while playing 22-25 minutes a night with 14 games left in the season and gives up nothing defensively. I would say that ranks him in the top 15 of the league maybe even top 5 for RHD. 

Being 11 goals back at this point is about equal to 20 goals back at the end of a normal season, although he is having pretty good season.

 

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31 minutes ago, rocketbelifleur said:

Being 11 goals back at this point is about equal to 20 goals back at the end of a normal season, although he is having pretty good season.

 

My point was that he is a top 20 winger this season when the post said Montreal had no top 20 wingers. IMO a wingers 1st job is to put the puck in the net so if you are a winger and are top 10 in the league for goals you are doing your job and are among the best that season.

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2 hours ago, campabee82 said:

I hate to disagree with this cause so much of it is true but here are the 2 I disagree with.

1 elite winger we actually have 2 and 8f Drouin would smarten up a bit I would say 3. Gallagher ranks 5th in the NHL for 5 on 5 goals over the last 3 seasons and not only that but also ranks in the top 5 of many other advanced stats categories see link. The second player is Toffoli who right now sits 11 goals behind Matthew's for the league lead. When was the last time we had a top 10 scorer this close to the end of the season?

2 Petry is 2 goals behind the league leader in goals by a D man while playing 22-25 minutes a night with 14 games left in the season and gives up nothing defensively. I would say that ranks him in the top 15 of the league maybe even top 5 for RHD. 

I realized I forgot to post the link for Gallagher's stats so here it is.

https://thehockeywriters.com/canadiens-gallagher-extension-good-value/

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3 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

The Habs have some depth at wing, but they have a below-average D corps with a glaring lack of depth, average goaltending, and a need for time to develop skill/depth at center. This team remains really poorly-constructed, with no true direction.

 

2 hours ago, campabee82 said:

I hate to disagree with this cause so much of it is true but here are the 2 I disagree with.

1 elite winger we actually have 2 and 8f Drouin would smarten up a bit I would say 3. Gallagher ranks 5th in the NHL for 5 on 5 goals over the last 3 seasons and not only that but also ranks in the top 5 of many other advanced stats categories see link. The second player is Toffoli who right now sits 11 goals behind Matthew's for the league lead. When was the last time we had a top 10 scorer this close to the end of the season?

2 Petry is 2 goals behind the league leader in goals by a D man while playing 22-25 minutes a night with 14 games left in the season and gives up nothing defensively. I would say that ranks him in the top 15 of the league maybe even top 5 for RHD. 

As much as I p'd off at tonight's game, Poorly constructed with no true direction is a pretty strong statement so I will disagree on that degree as well

The direction has to be for the window of 2022-23 or 2023-24 or 2-3 seasons from now. In a roster of 13 forwards, 7 d, 2 G, we should have a nucleus of  at least 11 players to be built around - Goal - Primeau up and comer but who knows what we can do with the Price contract anchor , At D, Petry, Romanov, and three of Norlinder, Guhle, Struble, Harris should be in the lineup- (Edmundson is filler even though signed, I hope he is traded). I don't think Brooks, Fleury or Fairweather make the jump. At RHD Petry will be slowing so we will need some more dynamics of a true #1 there, so that will be a weakness even though Romanov and Guhle can play that side, I don't think they are offensively gifted enough. Weber will be retired and not playing for $ 3 million year after next and virtually certain not for $1 million the next year. At forward, Anderson, Toffoli, Gallagher, KK, Suzuki, Caufield, Ylonen, should be on the ascending side. I don't see Drouin unless he has a radical change in the year 23-24 as his contract expires so there needs to be more depth at LW beyond Toffoli. I think Poehling is a 4th line centre, or a checking winger as his foot speed is a challenge. I am choosing to see a constructed plan with a sense of direction on building thru youth. The present lineup is inadequate to contend. There's a lot of IF's here, and we need to luck out on another centre, LW, and RHD thru F/A, trade or draft for those future seasons.

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8 hours ago, habs1952 said:

I think it says a lot when your leading goal scorers and top goalie were all acquired in the off-season. 

Vegas has a good team and Pacs and Stone (top players along with Petrangilo) are all by trade. It doesn't matter how you aquire your players , not every team wins a draft lottery.

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On 4/15/2021 at 7:18 PM, maas_art said:

You expect ANY professional athlete to say "I suck, i should get scratched?" :4224:

 

What he said in that interview was pretty much what any hockey player would say.  Of course he wants to play more. Just because he knows he's sucked it doesnt mean he thinks he cant reboud or that his career is over.   

 

Other people seem to think the same.  A Leader?  Nay. Nay.

" This team has a distinct lack of leadership and direction. For this, there are a few remedies I could suggest, none of which would be likely to bear fruit before the playoffs.

Shea Weber takes more undisciplined penalties and commits more unforced giveaways than he scores points lately. If he is playing injured — which many believe to be the case given his performance — that would be incredibly unbecoming of a leader. If this is instead just the rapid onset of his decline, then he needs to accept a reduced role, and not asking for more playing time as he recently did."

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13 hours ago, campabee82 said:

I hate to disagree with this cause so much of it is true but here are the 2 I disagree with.

1 elite winger we actually have 2 and 8f Drouin would smarten up a bit I would say 3. Gallagher ranks 5th in the NHL for 5 on 5 goals over the last 3 seasons and not only that but also ranks in the top 5 of many other advanced stats categories see link. The second player is Toffoli who right now sits 11 goals behind Matthew's for the league lead. When was the last time we had a top 10 scorer this close to the end of the season?

2 Petry is 2 goals behind the league leader in goals by a D man while playing 22-25 minutes a night with 14 games left in the season and gives up nothing defensively. I would say that ranks him in the top 15 of the league maybe even top 5 for RHD. 

IMO if someone were to list the top 50 NHL players today we would be lucky if any HAB player made the list . I even think Price might not make it , 

 

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Bergevin is approaching nine years on the job this May. Have we progressed at all over those nine years? I would say no. The team Bergevin inherited was able to make the playoffs for the first few seasons under his guidance. However, we now look like a team with little direction and little capacity to even make the playoffs. Let's forget about being a contender. And to be frank, we only made the "playoffs" last season because of COVID. If we make it this year, it will be because of the shortcomings of Calgary, Ottawa, and Vancouver. Not because we've been a competent or consistent team.

There isn't a single player on this team that I can say will be a pillar of this organization for a future Cup window. And yes... I am including Suzuki, Romanov, and Kotkaniemi. Bergevin wasted Price's best years. And now we're tied to both Weber and Price as their play diminishes and we're on the hook for their massive salaries. The cap implications of those two contracts is awful. Our D is awful. It makes no sense that we have ~$15 million invested in Weber, Edmundson, and Chiarot.

Yes, he's made some good trades. But those trades have not resulted in us even being considered a playoff team. That is a massive failure. Bergevin's tenure needs to end and we need to rebuild. Not reset. Not retool. We need a major overhaul.

Marc Bergevin
Carey Price
Shea Weber
Ben Chiarot
Joel Edmundson
Paul Byron

Sorry, nothing personal, but we need to get out from under these contracts. As hard as it will be, it's something a new GM will need to attempt to accomplish.

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