2020-21 State Of The Habs

[claremont]

On 11/28/2020 at 8:40 AM, BigTed3 said:

Decent amount of turnover in the Habs brass... first Shane Churla leaving to take a job in Florida as we lose a top scout, now Larry Carriere leaving the organization as well.

You really think Shane Churla did a good job in our scouting department during his tenure here? Who are his top finds or successes? I would hardly classify him as “top” and say non voyage! Time to flush out some staleness 

carriere on the other hand is a tougher loss but they parted amicably as Carriere wants to do other things in his life 

[BigTed3]

11 hours ago, claremont said:

You really think Shane Churla did a good job in our scouting department during his tenure here? Who are his top finds or successes? I would hardly classify him as “top” and say non voyage! Time to flush out some staleness 

carriere on the other hand is a tougher loss but they parted amicably as Carriere wants to do other things in his life 

When I said "top scout" I literally meant that he was the head of our amateur scouting department, not necessarily an opinion on the job he's done. He took that job from Trevor Timmins in 2017, although Timmins remains in charge of drafting as assistant GM.

That said, without knowing what role Churla played in the drafts, I think the Habs have done a decent job drafting in the 3 drafts that Churla would have had his role as head scout with the team... in 2018, we drafted Kotkaniemi, but I think we can also hold out hope that at least one of Ylonen, Romanov, or Harris will become a regular NHLer. On average, NHL teams probably land 1 NHL regular from a draft, so hitting on two NHLers is largely considered to be a good draft. With Romanov likely making the NHL squad next season and Ylonen playing well in Europe and probably back to the AHL once it resumes, I think we have good odds of getting at least 2 NHLers and maybe more from that draft.

In 2019, Caufield was by all accounts a steal at 15. Struble has a shot at making the NHL, and Norlinder looks like he might be an absolute steal when all is said and done. From this past year, I'm so-so on Guhle in that I think he can be an NHLer but not likely to be a top-pairing player or star. But Tuch and Mysak were good value for where they were chosen. My guess is we probably get one decent NHLer out of that bunch. All that to say that while it's way too early to pronounce on anything, I think we have several strong prospects from the past 3 drafts and Churla by all accounts is seen as a valuable commodity among the NHL network. I can't speak to whether it's true or not given that we have no idea what he actually does or says behind closed doors, but I think the job his group has done in recent years has been pretty good.

On the other hand, I'm not sure what Carriere has done that warrants praise. As with Churla, I have no idea what Carriere did behind closed doors, but he was supposedly the man put in charge of organizing Laval, and the AHL team has largely been a gigantic mess for many years. It's starting to get better under Bouchard, but that team has not done a very good job of developing prospects. Frequently, our NHL-track prospects were playing behind middling career AHLers and the skill development was near non-existent under Lefebvre. So if that's what we're judging Carriere on, I'm not sure he's as big a loss as Churla.

[dreegking]

1 hour ago, BigTed3 said:

When I said "top scout" I literally meant that he was the head of our amateur scouting department, not necessarily an opinion on the job he's done. He took that job from Trevor Timmins in 2017, although Timmins remains in charge of drafting as assistant GM.

That said, without knowing what role Churla played in the drafts, I think the Habs have done a decent job drafting in the 3 drafts that Churla would have had his role as head scout with the team... in 2018, we drafted Kotkaniemi, but I think we can also hold out hope that at least one of Ylonen, Romanov, or Harris will become a regular NHLer. On average, NHL teams probably land 1 NHL regular from a draft, so hitting on two NHLers is largely considered to be a good draft. With Romanov likely making the NHL squad next season and Ylonen playing well in Europe and probably back to the AHL once it resumes, I think we have good odds of getting at least 2 NHLers and maybe more from that draft.

In 2019, Caufield was by all accounts a steal at 15. Struble has a shot at making the NHL, and Norlinder looks like he might be an absolute steal when all is said and done. From this past year, I'm so-so on Guhle in that I think he can be an NHLer but not likely to be a top-pairing player or star. But Tuch and Mysak were good value for where they were chosen. My guess is we probably get one decent NHLer out of that bunch. All that to say that while it's way too early to pronounce on anything, I think we have several strong prospects from the past 3 drafts and Churla by all accounts is seen as a valuable commodity among the NHL network. I can't speak to whether it's true or not given that we have no idea what he actually does or says behind closed doors, but I think the job his group has done in recent years has been pretty good.

On the other hand, I'm not sure what Carriere has done that warrants praise. As with Churla, I have no idea what Carriere did behind closed doors, but he was supposedly the man put in charge of organizing Laval, and the AHL team has largely been a gigantic mess for many years. It's starting to get better under Bouchard, but that team has not done a very good job of developing prospects. Frequently, our NHL-track prospects were playing behind middling career AHLers and the skill development was near non-existent under Lefebvre. So if that's what we're judging Carriere on, I'm not sure he's as big a loss as Churla.

Good take. 
 

he did good  we won’t see any youngsters up this year. No way does Romanov qualify this year  and he’s not ready  

it’s going to be an interesting expansion draft. 
 

anyone know the expansion draft rules? Age limits? Years of see ice limits? 
 

[campabee82]

13 hours ago, dreegking said:

Good take. 
 

he did good  we won’t see any youngsters up this year. No way does Romanov qualify this year  and he’s not ready  

it’s going to be an interesting expansion draft. 
 

anyone know the expansion draft rules? Age limits? Years of see ice limits? 
 

I have some really really bad news for you if you think Romanov isn't ready and/or isn't going to make the team. CJ already said that he would be more surprised if Romanov didn't make the team than if he did. Basically when the head coach says he would be surprised if a rookie doesn't make the team that rookie will be on the team. Expect Romanov to be on the 3rd pair to start the season and probably be on the 2nd pair by the 20 game mark.

[dreegking]

9 hours ago, campabee82 said:

I have some really really bad news for you if you think Romanov isn't ready and/or isn't going to make the team. CJ already said that he would be more surprised if Romanov didn't make the team than if he did. Basically when the head coach says he would be surprised if a rookie doesn't make the team that rookie will be on the team. Expect Romanov to be on the 3rd pair to start the season and probably be on the 2nd pair by the 20 game mark.

Yes. I heard that. You are likely right. But I’ll stick with my view. I think he needs a year on this side of the pond. 
 

but I’m the same guy who absolutely believes Kulak is a top 4 And many see him as a potential 7th even. 
 

so what the heck do I know. 

[ChiLla]

No idea where to put this (maybe a prospect thread would make sense?) but I thought some of you might find this interesting: Josh Brook played his first game in Germany last night, getting +22 minutes of ice time (2nd on the team) in his debut and assisting on Lucas Lessio's OT winner, who's another former Hab. His team Krefeld has only 1 game left to play in that preliminary tournament before the DEL season officially starts on Dec 17th.

[maas_art]

10 hours ago, ChiLla said:

No idea where to put this (maybe a prospect thread would make sense?) but I thought some of you might find this interesting: Josh Brook played his first game in Germany last night, getting +22 minutes of ice time (2nd on the team) in his debut and assisting on Lucas Lessio's OT winner, who's another former Hab. His team Krefeld has only 1 game left to play in that preliminary tournament before the DEL season officially starts on Dec 17th.

Thanks for the update. I know a lot of people have written off Josh Brook but I still thin he has #3-4 potential, he's just going to take a little longer to develop than originally thought imho. 

[ChiLla]

2 hours ago, maas_art said:

Thanks for the update. I know a lot of people have written off Josh Brook but I still thin he has #3-4 potential, he's just going to take a little longer to develop than originally thought imho. 

I haven't seen him play much but I think he's going to have a really hard time cracking the lineup as long as we have Weber and Petry. Both Juulsen and Fleury are question marks but still seem to be ahead of him on the depth chart, and then there's Romanov who apparently can play on the right side as well. Too bad Brook doesn't play LHD, otherwise he might have a shot.

[maas_art]

22 minutes ago, ChiLla said:

I haven't seen him play much but I think he's going to have a really hard time cracking the lineup as long as we have Weber and Petry. Both Juulsen and Fleury are question marks but still seem to be ahead of him on the depth chart, and then there's Romanov who apparently can play on the right side as well. Too bad Brook doesn't play LHD, otherwise he might have a shot.

For sure - but if he develops to the point he's pushing for that role, there's always the opportunity to trade someone.  Its still a long shot but I havent given up hope on Brook.

[campabee82]

2 hours ago, ChiLla said:

I haven't seen him play much but I think he's going to have a really hard time cracking the lineup as long as we have Weber and Petry. Both Juulsen and Fleury are question marks but still seem to be ahead of him on the depth chart, and then there's Romanov who apparently can play on the right side as well. Too bad Brook doesn't play LHD, otherwise he might have a shot.

Ghule also plays the right and Mete can as well but I still like Brook as well. I think Weber will retire in the next 2-3 years (either because of injury or he is just done) and that will open up a spot on the right anyway and IF the Habs pull off the unthinkable and win a cup, I think Weber retires that offseason.

[jennifer_rocket]

Curiously, does anyone expect any additional moves before the season. If we had cap space, I would be a proponent of helping another team get under the cap (for a price, of course), but it doesn't seem like we're in a position to do so anymore. Unless we look at sending someone back in any deal.

I am kind of curious to see what Montreal does with Byron, Danault, Armia, and Weal. I wonder if the team moves any of them?

[campabee82]

2 hours ago, jennifer_rocket said:

Curiously, does anyone expect any additional moves before the season. If we had cap space, I would be a proponent of helping another team get under the cap (for a price, of course), but it doesn't seem like we're in a position to do so anymore. Unless we look at sending someone back in any deal.

I am kind of curious to see what Montreal does with Byron, Danault, Armia, and Weal. I wonder if the team moves any of them?

I think that we are finished, unless someone comes along and offers Stamkos or like player for a reasonable price. I also think the only ones that would be considered in a package are Byron, Armia and Weal. I feel like Danault is still off limits in MB's eyes. I doubt any of those get moved before the start of the season, but perhaps early to mid season we could see a couple of deals.

[Regis22]

On ‎01‎/‎12‎/‎2020 at 0:14 AM, campabee82 said:

I have some really really bad news for you if you think Romanov isn't ready and/or isn't going to make the team. CJ already said that he would be more surprised if Romanov didn't make the team than if he did. Basically when the head coach says he would be surprised if a rookie doesn't make the team that rookie will be on the team. Expect Romanov to be on the 3rd pair to start the season and probably be on the 2nd pair by the 20 game mark.

Im still waitrng for Otto Leskinen to make the team

Otto

[maas_art]

6 hours ago, jennifer_rocket said:

Curiously, does anyone expect any additional moves before the season. If we had cap space, I would be a proponent of helping another team get under the cap (for a price, of course), but it doesn't seem like we're in a position to do so anymore. Unless we look at sending someone back in any deal.

I am kind of curious to see what Montreal does with Byron, Danault, Armia, and Weal. I wonder if the team moves any of them?

 

3 hours ago, campabee82 said:

I think that we are finished, unless someone comes along and offers Stamkos or like player for a reasonable price. I also think the only ones that would be considered in a package are Byron, Armia and Weal. I feel like Danault is still off limits in MB's eyes. I doubt any of those get moved before the start of the season, but perhaps early to mid season we could see a couple of deals.

I also believe we're done.

I think that right now MB has a big "wait and see" attitude. I think he'd like to get guys like Danault, Tatar and Armia signed but he also needs to see who is expendable. The contract he'd sign with one of them vs. a sign and trade (or even trading one without a contract at the deadline) would probably be quite different.

I think if any of those guys wanted to take a discount he'd accept a deal asap but assuming they are looking for FMV, he'll likely "wait and see" unless, as campabee pointed out, a sweetheart deal falls in his lap. 

How guys like Suzuki and JK start the season will play a role in the decisions as will the play of wingers like Drouin, Anderson and Tofolli. I think the latter 2 are here for a while but if, say, Tatar starts strong and Drouin falters, look for him to be quietly shopped. 

Likewise in the bottom six.  Is Byron expendable? Will Poehling crack the lineup? A lot of questions that can really only be answered with time. 

I think most likely to get moved (between now and a month or 2 into the season) would be Byron, Armia  or possibly drouin.  I dont think anyone is taking Weal.  I do think that Danault will be resigned, unless he demands a trade/ice time he cant be guaranteed.   Right now our other centres are Suzuki (21), Kokaniemi (20), Poehling (21), Evans (24)  - i just cant see MB letting our only real "vet" at centre go in a trade. 

[BigTed3]

Sens have acquired impending UFA Derek Stepan from Arizona. Most experts expect the trade market will pen up shortly. The interesting thing is that quarantine will likely still be in place in a couple of months, so if you trade for a player, he'll have to sit out (possibly up to 14 days if he's coming from another country). So it'll be much harder to make trades in season and especially hard to dump UFA's. The Habs have players like Tatar, Danault, and Armia coming up for free agency. Do they try to sign or trade them early in the season? Do they just keep them into the summer and risk letting them walk? There could be more action brewing sooner rather than later.

[ramcharger440]

On 12/27/2020 at 9:51 AM, BigTed3 said:

Sens have acquired impending UFA Derek Stepan from Arizona. Most experts expect the trade market will pen up shortly. The interesting thing is that quarantine will likely still be in place in a couple of months, so if you trade for a player, he'll have to sit out (possibly up to 14 days if he's coming from another country). So it'll be much harder to make trades in season and especially hard to dump UFA's. The Habs have players like Tatar, Danault, and Armia coming up for free agency. Do they try to sign or trade them early in the season? Do they just keep them into the summer and risk letting them walk? There could be more action brewing sooner rather than later.

I agree with the action part for sure! this is a one off season things are going to be very interesting.

[dreegking]

Missing two recent additions of seasoned vets for depth. 
I don’t see anyone going. 
guys will be lost or brought back in the off season. 
 

bottom line is you can only protect so many anyway due to expansion. 

[CANADIENS27]

Electron 58 said we came close to signing Zdeno Chara.  He might add size, but how long would he be of any use to us?  

 

 

[arpem-can]

49 minutes ago, CANADIENS27 said:

Electron 58 said we came close to signing Zdeno Chara.  He might add size, but how long would he be of any use to us?  

 

 

   not in favour of this former Bruin no matter how big he is ..Chara wasn't even wanted on the Bruins and then he signed a cheap contract ...well over 40 and skating in mud ...no thanks 

[CaptWelly]

1 hour ago, arpem-can said:

   not in favour of this former Bruin no matter how big he is ..Chara wasn't even wanted on the Bruins and then he signed a cheap contract ...well over 40 and skating in mud ...no thanks 

He still averaged around 21 minutes a night. I think he'll help Washington. He still is good at penalty killing, size and a giant reach can help. 

[CANADIENS27]

17 hours ago, arpem-can said:

   not in favour of this former Bruin no matter how big he is ..Chara wasn't even wanted on the Bruins and then he signed a cheap contract ...well over 40 and skating in mud ...no thanks 

That's what I figured.  We're in greater need of younger players who can contribute for several seasons.  

 

 

[campabee82]

Couldn't find an appropriate thread for my question. 

Dies anyone know what the lines a d pair I vs were in practice today? Or if there were any lines or how the practice was structured?

Side note, just read that Keefe intends to play Thorton on the 1st line LW with Matthews and Marner. IMO that will be a huge mistake especially when the Habs roll into Toronto on the 13th. Imagine Suzuki, Drouin, Anderson, Mete and Romanov buzzing around the offensive zone trapping that line with poor Thorton trying to keep up. LMAO hope the have oxygen on the bench for him.

[arpem-can]

9 hours ago, campabee82 said:

Couldn't find an appropriate thread for my question. 

Dies anyone know what the lines a d pair I vs were in practice today? Or if there were any lines or how the practice was structured?

Side note, just read that Keefe intends to play Thorton on the 1st line LW with Matthews and Marner. IMO that will be a huge mistake especially when the Habs roll into Toronto on the 13th. Imagine Suzuki, Drouin, Anderson, Mete and Romanov buzzing around the offensive zone trapping that line with poor Thorton trying to keep up. LMAO hope the have oxygen on the bench for him.

from one report Weal will be skating with Danault and Gallagher while Tatar quarantines for 1 more day ...thornton doesn't play down low that much anymore so you might be right 

[BigTed3]

Lines today:

Tatar-Danault-Gallagher

Drouin-Suzuki-Anderson

Toffoli-KK-Armia

Lehkonen-Evans-Byron

 

Chiarot-Weber

Edmundson-Petry

Kulak-Romanov

 

Forward lines make sense. The D lines not so much. Our top 4 is brutal, easily our weakest link.

[jennifer_rocket]

Will players on the taxi squad count against the salary cap?