Should Dominique Ducharme remain the coach after this season?

[BigTed3]

What's your take on Ducharme? Do you think he should stay past this season? What does he have to do to make that happen? If he goes, who should take over and who would be able to do a better job with this roster?

[habsisme]

I say he deserves a full year that includes and off-season. If MB is fired though, I'd say its 50/50 he stays on

[caperns61]

I thought we needed a coach change, but I would prefer to have Julien. at least we had a system even though i didn't like his player choices.,

Right now this team looks really lost. Dee look really bad, zero support from the forwards certainly does not help, Price is average at best.  Our team looks really slow. And no line seems to work together, mind you it doesn't help they are changed every other shift. 

 

[richard464]

Sorry but this guy does not impress me. His interviews are brutal and he always looks like he is searching for an answer. He is not confident and that will show up on the ice. Let's give Jon Cooper a call he seems to have all the skills necessary to continually produce great teams and work with Mgmt to put the right pieces on the ice. 

[Regis22]

Sure , why not . Hes not doing that much worse than CJ so maybe it wasn’t  a coaching issue . Maybe it’s a personnel issue : collectively these guys aren’t very good . Maybe they are an average hockey club and no amount of line up changes will turn them into aN above average team 

[rkgoalie]

7 minutes ago, richard464 said:

Sorry but this guy does not impress me. His interviews are brutal and he always looks like he is searching for an answer. He is not confident and that will show up on the ice. Let's give Jon Cooper a call he seems to have all the skills necessary to continually produce great teams and work with Mgmt to put the right pieces on the ice. 

yes please   

[H_T_L]

Unfortunately he has that interim title above his head. I have a feeling he doesn't have full control of who plays and who sits. If the choices he's making right now are 100% his, then he's no better then CJ. If that's the case, then it's MB that needs to go first before another coaching change. It's easy enough to say bring up Bouchard from Laval,,, but if he has to answer to MB with the roster moves, then what's the point? You need to chop off the head of the snake if you want true changes.

[habs1952]

I agree with HTL. I don't think DD is calling the shots. I think It's a terrible GM being a terrible backseat coach.

[electron58]

4 hours ago, H_T_L said:

Unfortunately he has that interim title above his head. I have a feeling he doesn't have full control of who plays and who sits. If the choices he's making right now are 100% his, then he's no better then CJ. If that's the case, then it's MB that needs to go first before another coaching change. It's easy enough to say bring up Bouchard from Laval,,, but if he has to answer to MB with the roster moves, then what's the point? You need to chop off the head of the snake if you want true changes.

This is the correct answer. Thank you!

[BigTed3]

I largely agree with the opinions that Bergevin is probably more of the problem than Ducharme. As Ducharme said last night, he can't make any line-up changes right now because he has 18 skaters available to him and there's no cap room to bring anyone up unless there's an injury. There's also only one roster spot left, so it's between Caufield vs. Evans vs Poehling vs. Ylonen vs. other. You can't have more than one. Bergevin really screwed up with his deadline day manoeuvering where he sent down and called up Byron and so on and thereby cost himself a chance at having extra call-ups available. He also screwed up trading for Edmunson while still having Chiarot on the roster and spending that extra money on a player we didn't need. Subtract one of those two and you have the cap space to do what you need. So MB definitely screwed DD over.

That said, there's nothing that forced Ducharme to play Weber as much as he had or to use Chiarot or Edmundson as his partner. Decisions around that one player have cost the team more than anything else. So Bergevin needs to go, but if he goes, there isn't really a good reason to keep Ducharme around either. Ducharme's probably not the biggest culprit but he's also not bringing anything that warrants keeping him past this year either.

[claremont]

7 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

I largely agree with the opinions that Bergevin is probably more of the problem than Ducharme. 

That said, there's nothing that forced Ducharme to play Weber as much as he had or to use Chiarot or Edmundson as his partner. Decisions around that one player have cost the team more than anything else. So Bergevin needs to go, but if he goes, there isn't really a good reason to keep Ducharme around either. Ducharme's probably not the biggest culprit but he's also not bringing anything that warrants keeping him past this year either.

Any new GM will want a head coach of his choosing

[maas_art]

1 hour ago, BigTed3 said:

That said, there's nothing that forced Ducharme to play Weber as much as he had or to use Chiarot or Edmundson as his partner. Decisions around that one player have cost the team more than anything else. So Bergevin needs to go, but if he goes, there isn't really a good reason to keep Ducharme around either. Ducharme's probably not the biggest culprit but he's also not bringing anything that warrants keeping him past this year either.

I tend to agree but, we know that MB has a history of Micromanaging. Its tough to say if he's had any input & forced Ducharme and Richardson's hands regarding the defense.   

The fact that DD has not moved Weber down the lineup is strange to me. The fact Richardson has not tried something different on defense, is strange to me. The idea that MB would want Weber on the first unit under any circumstance? that seems like the total norm to me. 

[HARBORSPORT]

I think MB needs to go.........it seems that for every good decision he's made.....there are 10 bad ones, and I firmly believe he's calling at least some of the shots on the day to day coaching...maybe he HAS to due to the stipulations in some of the player's contracts he's made, but either way the overall results aint good

[BigTed3]

Biggest reason Bergevin needs to go is that the Habs need to move on from Weber and probably Price, and Bergevin seems fixed on that not happening.

[kinot-2]

DD can only play what's given to him. IMO, he is under pressure to play the "high-end" players, which, IMO, aren't very good (except for Gally). Get rid of MB, and we "may" see some improvement. 

[maas_art]

1 hour ago, BigTed3 said:

Biggest reason Bergevin needs to go is that the Habs need to move on from Weber and probably Price, and Bergevin seems fixed on that not happening.

This. 
Its a shame because he's done a lot of little things, in a vacuum, very well, but the big-picture is totally shot because he cant see that guys like Weber and Price are not the answer.  Heck, even Petry, as good as he has been, will likely be pushed down the lineup (and still under contract) when JK and Suzuki are hitting full stride. 

[BigTed3]

6 hours ago, maas_art said:

This. 
Its a shame because he's done a lot of little things, in a vacuum, very well, but the big-picture is totally shot because he cant see that guys like Weber and Price are not the answer.  Heck, even Petry, as good as he has been, will likely be pushed down the lineup (and still under contract) when JK and Suzuki are hitting full stride. 

Petry is easily our best D man, but I think the odds that we're having the same discussion about him in 2-3 years that we're having about Weber now and that we had about Markov 5 years ago is pretty high. It's fine if you want these guys to be your #4-5 D man and a PP specialist and play 16-17 minutes a night. But it's blind to think they can be your #1 D man when they're 35 and struggling to have their legs keep up.

[jennifer_rocket]

Short of convincingly making the conference finals, I want Bergevin gone regardless.

If Ducharme can make the playoffs, and make it into the second round, I would consider keeping him on. However, I assume any new GM is going to want to have his own coaching staff in place. Hard to make a case for Ducharme keeping his job if a new GM comes in. He hasn't been able to get much out of the team since taking over. There's still a lot more to do this season, but I'm sure there are other coaches out there who might be able to do more with this squad.

[maas_art]

5 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

Petry is easily our best D man, but I think the odds that we're having the same discussion about him in 2-3 years that we're having about Weber now and that we had about Markov 5 years ago is pretty high. It's fine if you want these guys to be your #4-5 D man and a PP specialist and play 16-17 minutes a night. But it's blind to think they can be your #1 D man when they're 35 and struggling to have their legs keep up.

Agree.  And you probably can afford one guy at $5m+ in your bottom #4-6 dmen but not two. 

[southernhabfan]

On 4/19/2021 at 10:45 AM, jennifer_rocket said:

Short of convincingly making the conference finals, I want Bergevin gone regardless.

If Ducharme can make the playoffs, and make it into the second round, I would consider keeping him on. However, I assume any new GM is going to want to have his own coaching staff in place. Hard to make a case for Ducharme keeping his job if a new GM comes in. He hasn't been able to get much out of the team since taking over. There's still a lot more to do this season, but I'm sure there are other coaches out there who might be able to do more with this squad.

Yeah.I tend to agree....somewhat anyway...I think MB should be gone, nonetheless. What has he done in the last decade that we can point to and say bold move..(that will keep us in playoff contention way down the road)? 

[BigTed3]

42 minutes ago, southernhabfan said:

Yeah.I tend to agree....somewhat anyway...I think MB should be gone, nonetheless. What has he done in the last decade that we can point to and say bold move..(that will keep us in playoff contention way down the road)? 

He started acquiring players old enough to be eligible to get the vaccine before the start of the playoffs.

[jennifer_rocket]

13 hours ago, southernhabfan said:

Yeah.I tend to agree....somewhat anyway...I think MB should be gone, nonetheless. What has he done in the last decade that we can point to and say bold move..(that will keep us in playoff contention way down the road)? 

Agreed. He hasn't done much. And even the moves I will give him credit for in the recent past haven't pushed us to the next level (i.e. beyond a disappointing team that cannot make the playoffs). He hasn't been able to accomplish the bare minimum in the past five seasons. He cannot even get this group turned into a team that makes the playoffs.

If I failed at my job for five years, you can guarantee I wouldn't have that job.

[richard464]

Seems like the question regarding DD has turned into a question of MB?

[jennifer_rocket]

1 hour ago, richard464 said:

Seems like the question regarding DD has turned into a question of MB?

I think their fates are inextricably linked. If Bergevin goes, Ducharme hasn't shown enough to stay on with a new General Manager, IMO.

If Bergevin stays, maybe Ducharme keeps the job, but he'll need to do better than he's currently doing. You can't lose Gallagher and proceed to go 2-6. Are we that fragile as a team?

[BigTed3]

8 minutes ago, jennifer_rocket said:

I think their fates are inextricably linked. If Bergevin goes, Ducharme hasn't shown enough to stay on with a new General Manager, IMO.

If Bergevin stays, maybe Ducharme keeps the job, but he'll need to do better than he's currently doing. You can't lose Gallagher and proceed to go 2-6. Are we that fragile as a team?

The Habs as an organization under Bergevin have always been quick to blame failures on injuries. They give us the "We can't win without Price. We can't win without Weber. We can't win without Gallagher." Up until the Gallagher injury I believe the Habs were first in the league for fewest man-games lost to injury/illness, so it can hardly be an excuse this year for how poorly we've performed.

As far as Ducharme goes, it's not that he's the biggest problem, but has he really done anything to show he deserves to stay and that he's the solution? Not really. The biggest flaws with this team are

1. No left side of the defence

2. An over-reliance on Weber and to a lesser degree Petry on the right side of the defence when we know those two don't hold up well over a season.

3. A lack of elite players at any position.

4. A mish-mash model for building the team whereby part of our roster is aged and past-prime (Price, Weber, Perry, Staal, Byron) and the other half is not yet ready to play big enough roles (Suzuki, Kotkaniemi, Romanov, etc.). The nucleus of this team was not built to put it all together at once.

5. And lastly, a misconception that you can win in today's NHL with grit and toughness without a need for skill and speed. Bergevin's entire regime has been based around guys like Murray, Bouillon, Alzner, Schlemko, Drewiske, Benn, Chiarot, Ouellet, and Edmundson being key players while better puck movers like Diaz, Mete, Romanov, Kulak, etc. have to fight to stay in the line-up. There's an error in philosophy there that starts with the GM but trickles down through the coaches he's chosen to hire.

6. Cap and asset mismanagement this year that has left us with older, slower players while our younger ones who could be more helpful don't get a shot.

Now Ducharme isn't responsible for a large part of that. Most of it falls on Bergevin. But at the same time, DD needs to be prioritizing Kulak/Romanov over Chiarot/Edmundson/Ouellet. He needs to stop playing Staal on the PP. He needs to stop playing Weber so much. There are things that are on the coach too here that aren't being rectified.