Who would you rather have right now: Julien or DD?

[maas_art]

I have been thinking, as much as many of us wanted Julien replaced I wonder who would be the better coach right now?

Its moot because it probably had to be done (and we needed to see that it wasnt necessarily the coaching that was the problem) but if you had the ability to switch them, which coach do you think would be better right now, round 1 against the leafs?

Remember it was Julien who gave the reigns to Suzuki and JK in the playoffs last year. would he have played CC and Romanov since game 1?  Would he have juggled the lines this much?

Ducharme was apparently responsible for our great start this season, can he get all 4 lines firing at once again?   

Would the series be different right now if Julien were here? Would we be up or still down? 

[Regis22]

I selected Julien , for the experience factor, but I suspect it wouldn't make a difference.

Much like everyone wanting Montreal to play JK, CC and AR over the experience of perry , Staal, etc 

 

[habsisme]

I'd rather Julien

thats why we have to be careful when we say we want MB gone... for who? He's made a lot of good trades and signings. His problem is that he doesn't believe in the rebuild (and he likes old slow d men) but we may end up with someone who is exactly the same way (because most GMs are like that) but doesn't have the same ability to make good trades and evaluate talen

[HabsAlways]

As long as the Canadiens hamstring themselves with the "must be bilingual" we're always going to be in a boat of "be careful what you wish for".   Sure we could fire MB and DD.  Then what?  Who is french and can take over?  Roy and Carbs?  Tremblay again?  I wish the Canadiens could just go with the best candidate available, but it's never going to happen.

[ChiLla]

Picked Julien because I never wanted him gone and still think he was unfairly blamed for a lot of MB's shortcomings. Another reason is that I'm completed underwhelmed by Ducharme so far. As for the current series, I also don't think it would make much of a difference. As usual, we need Price to play absolutely lights-out to have a shot at winning a playoff round, and then it's our usual inability to score goals that comes back to bite us when it counts most. Not much a coach can do in that regard, outside of actually giving the most gifted shooter we have some icetime of course.

[tony5775]

How about neither. I believe the team needed a fresh set of eyes on the situation. Nothing changed very much and a new coach from outside the organization would of made a big difference. 

[maas_art]

1 hour ago, habsisme said:

I'd rather Julien

thats why we have to be careful when we say we want MB gone... for who? He's made a lot of good trades and signings. His problem is that he doesn't believe in the rebuild (and he likes old slow d men) but we may end up with someone who is exactly the same way (because most GMs are like that) but doesn't have the same ability to make good trades and evaluate talen

Exactly. Our 'base' to choose from is limited & there's no guarantees the next guy will be better (or even as good).   Now that DD has been... underwhelming, I see people calling for Bouchard to be promoted but how do we know JB is a good NHL head coach?  He seems to be awesome at developing players but that doesnt necessarily translate into NHL head coaching  - plus then we have a big hole in the minors again.
 

33 minutes ago, HabsAlways said:

As long as the Canadiens hamstring themselves with the "must be bilingual" we're always going to be in a boat of "be careful what you wish for".   Sure we could fire MB and DD.  Then what?  Who is french and can take over?  Roy and Carbs?  Tremblay again?  I wish the Canadiens could just go with the best candidate available, but it's never going to happen.

This.   It should be "best candidate." I understand the desire to having a french speaking coach but if some guy came out of Kiribati and spoke only Gilbertese but somehow managed to coach every team he ever had to a championship, 30 other teams would offer him a job when they had a vacancy but we would not. 

If the best coach is french, great. If the best coach is english, great.  Just get the BEST coach. 

2 minutes ago, ChiLla said:

Picked Julien because I never wanted him gone and still think he was unfairly blamed for a lot of MB's shortcomings. Another reason is that I'm completed underwhelmed by Ducharme so far. As for the current series, I also don't think it would make much of a difference. As usual, we need Price to play absolutely lights-out to have a shot at winning a playoff round, and then it's our usual inability to score goals that comes back to bite us when it counts most. Not much a coach can do in that regard, outside of actually giving the most gifted shooter we have some icetime of course.

I liked the idea of a change (I think the team was stagnant) but i did think that Julien got a raw deal in terms of blame. 

[maas_art]

2 minutes ago, tony5775 said:

How about neither. I believe the team needed a fresh set of eyes on the situation. Nothing changed very much and a new coach from outside the organization would of made a big difference. 

Totally - and thats certainly i think where most of us would lean but i was just curious how people thought right now - based on this roster, this series etc - whether we'd have a better shot at beating the leafs with Julien or DD at the helm. 

[ramcharger440]

Bowman

 

[ramcharger440]

Just now, ramcharger440 said:

Bowman

 

LOL! ok sorry I wish we had Gallant I liked him as a coach and I don't care for the bilingual B.S either. I was born and raised in Quebec lived there 35 years and I am pretty confident that the Queen would be accepted as head coach if she won a lot and if she won the cup she could run for premier!

[booboo_mtl]

Other than age, I haven't been able to notice a difference in CJ or DD

[jennifer_rocket]

15 minutes ago, booboo_mtl said:

Other than age, I haven't been able to notice a difference in CJ or DD

Under Julien the team was 9-5-4 this regular season. Under Ducharme we were 15-16-5 in the regular season.

So... points percentage difference is 0.611 vs. 0.486.

[Regis22]

1 hour ago, ramcharger440 said:

... and I am pretty confident that the Queen would be accepted as head coach if she won a lot and if she won the cup she could run for premier!

Serge Savard, once the Canadiens GM, has been one of those who has warned Bergevin about the perils of not having Québécois players.

“I told (Bergevin) that people will let him win in English, but they won’t let him lose in English,” Savard said in a radio interview in March.

[MALMACIAN_CRUNCH]

The French/English debate is complicated. I’m an Ontarian, so I’ve always been of the mind that Habs should hire the best available. But I’m not from Quebec and I don’t speak French. As I understand it, a large portion of Quebec speaks even less English than I do French, so there’s that. Also, there’s the history that goes into it as well, the politics. There’s a lot of variables. At the moment we have a French owner, GM and coach (and staff). We have 1 active French player and one on LTIR, both of which likely won’t be back next season. It almost looks as if we actively avoid players from the Q, at least in the first half of the draft. Often passing on what look like really promising prospects, that turn out to be excellent players, and you wonder “how did we miss that guy?”, when we should have been able to see better than anyone their potential. I think if we had a strong French core of players, there would be less pressure on every hire needing to be French. Also, a French President of hockey opps would likely be able to hire a non-French GM or Coach, particularly if he was a big enough personality that the press would be satisfied hearing from him. That said, it still might be a little much to pull off hiring both a non-French GM and coach.

At the end of the day I think it boils down to the fact that Habs are Quebec’s team, but if the only thing French about it is the city it plays in, especially when the league is littered with French talent, both on and off the ice, it’s understandable that some Québécois take exception to it

[ramcharger440]

2 minutes ago, MALMACIAN_CRUNCH said:

The French/English debate is complicated. I’m an Ontarian, so I’ve always been of the mind that Habs should hire the best available. But I’m not from Quebec and I don’t speak French. As I understand it, a large portion of Quebec speaks even less English than I do French, so there’s that. Also, there’s the history that goes into it as well, the politics. There’s a lot of variables. At the moment we have a French owner, GM and coach (and staff). We have 1 active French player and one on LTIR, both of which likely won’t be back next season. It almost looks as if we actively avoid players from the Q, at least in the first half of the draft. Often passing on what look like really promising prospects, that turn out to be excellent players, and you wonder “how did we miss that guy?”, when we should have been able to see better than anyone their potential. I think if we had a strong French core of players, there would be less pressure on every hire needing to be French. Also, a French President of hockey opps would likely be able to hire a non-French GM or Coach, particularly if he was a big enough personality that the press would be satisfied hearing from him. That said, it still might be a little much to pull off hiring both a non-French GM and coach.

At the end of the day I think it boils down to the fact that Habs are Quebec’s team, but if the only thing French about it is the city it plays in, especially when the league is littered with French talent, both on and off the ice, it’s understandable that some Québécois take exception to it

Pretty much all the cups came with english coaches........and like I said from there, and although I am english I speak french too. The ones who will take exception will always take exception to everything that is not french. in my opinion I think if the team was winning with perhaps 4-6 french players most would be happy. At the end of the day it is a hockey team it's purpose is to win hockey games sane people understand that but the noisy minority do not.

[H_T_L]

6 hours ago, maas_art said:

Remember it was Julien who gave the reigns to Suzuki and JK in the playoffs last year. would he have played CC and Romanov since game 1?  Would he have juggled the lines this much?

 

Wasn't it Muller that gave the kids the ice last year? I'm trying to recall when it was that CJ had his heart issues.

At the time i thought it was the right move but in hindsight i'd rather still have CJ because DD really isn't trying anything new. Our PP improved a bit with the new coach but seems to have reverted back to old habits of perimeter play.

[maas_art]

Just now, H_T_L said:

Wasn't it Muller that gave the kids the ice last year? I'm trying to recall when it was that CJ had his heart issues.

At the time i thought it was the right move but in hindsight i'd rather still have CJ because DD really isn't trying anything new. Our PP improved a bit with the new coach but seems to have reverted back to old habits of perimeter play.

Julien started it.  Muller continued but he actually fell back on his vets more than Julien was for a bit. 

[H_T_L]

Just now, maas_art said:

Julien started it.  Muller continued but he actually fell back on his vets more than Julien was for a bit. 

OK,,,,i couldn't remember exactly when it was that CJ went down

[jennifer_rocket]

At the time, I was excited to see what Ducharme could bring to the table. In retrospect, Julien got more out of the team in the regular season this year, so... I'd rather have Julien. Not that it would make much difference in the series against Toronto.

[richard464]

The problem was not Julien as much as I felt a change was necessary. Julien would not be playing with the lines like DD is that is for sure. DD is not the coach for this team and MB is totally responsible for the mess on the ice. However that being said Toffoli, Anderson and Allen were great additions. DD or MB whoever decided to not play the youth is a huge mistake. I will take Romanov over Merril, and Stahl should be counting shots from the press box.

We could have the top six forwards in the NHL on this team right now but DD could not handle and although Julien has the experience his old style of coaching cannot handle today's style of hockey.

 

[PuckPundit]

Neither.  According to the law of Habs coach recycing, Alain Vigneault would be next in line when DD is fired .

[maas_art]

45 minutes ago, PuckPundit said:

Neither.  According to the law of Habs coach recycing, Alain Vigneault would be next in line when DD is fired .

Haha.  Sad but so true.  

Choices:   Vignault, Carbo, maybe Guy Boucher gets a shot.... Pierre Mcguire...   What a great selection to choose from.  Barf. 

[BigTed3]

Yeah, the right answer is neither. The Habs need to find a coach who's not afraid to make decisions that go against convention. Everything this team does is with the thought process that they don't want to do something that goes against the norm because they don't want to be criticized for it:

- We don't want to hire anyone other than a French coach or GM, even if we think someone else could be better, because if they fail, we'll be lambasted in the media.

- We don't want to bench our captain even if he's playing terribly because he's tough and gritty and he hates to lose and the Don Cherry's of the world with cry about it.

- We want to go down with the ship with veterans with experience rather than giving experience to youngsters because we can blame the vets if they lose.

- We have to keep giving PP time to guys who were good on the PP 5-10 years ago because they used to be able to do it and we can back up the argument for using them by their old stats.

- We can't have players who are vocal or celebrate on the ice or go against the line of being a dry, by-the-book guy because we don't want to project that image.

Seriously, the thought process every time seems to be what can I do that will get me questioned the least... there's no impetus to be better or novel or follow evidence for what works. We don't need more of the same. Julien didn't work here. Ducharme isn't working. Enough.

 

[maas_art]

11 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

Yeah, the right answer is neither. The Habs need to find a coach who's not afraid to make decisions that go against convention. Everything this team does is with the thought process that they don't want to do something that goes against the norm because they don't want to be criticized for it:

- We don't want to hire anyone other than a French coach or GM, even if we think someone else could be better, because if they fail, we'll be lambasted in the media.

- We don't want to bench our captain even if he's playing terribly because he's tough and gritty and he hates to lose and the Don Cherry's of the world with cry about it.

- We want to go down with the ship with veterans with experience rather than giving experience to youngsters because we can blame the vets if they lose.

- We have to keep giving PP time to guys who were good on the PP 5-10 years ago because they used to be able to do it and we can back up the argument for using them by their old stats.

- We can't have players who are vocal or celebrate on the ice or go against the line of being a dry, by-the-book guy because we don't want to project that image.

Seriously, the thought process every time seems to be what can I do that will get me questioned the least... there's no impetus to be better or novel or follow evidence for what works. We don't need more of the same. Julien didn't work here. Ducharme isn't working. Enough.

 

Playing not to lose vs. playing to win. 

[kinot-2]

Scotty Bowman.