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2021-22 State of the Habs


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6 hours ago, habsisme said:

Yeah that's where I disagree with most. I think his trades have been great. Even the bad ones like drouin weren't really that bad

This is a fair point. I'm not MB fan and think it's time to try another approach, but on trading specifically I think he's been above average. Even the trade I hated the most - Subban for Weber - arguably worked out okay given Subban's performance falling off a cliff a few years afterwards (even if Nashville got the better "peak"). Losing Sergachev was bad, especially in context of our defensive prospect pipeline - but every GM who's been in the job 10 years is going to have one or two of those. For the most part, his trades have either been winners or at least draws.

The problem has been MB has been overly reliant on trades and signings to plug holes in the lineup. Ignoring some of the fringe roster players / recent callups, how much of the "safe" roster has been drafted AND developed during MB's 10 years? I think it's basically Evans & Lehknonen, maybe Romanov if you consider his spot safe, and maybe Gallagher if you want to be generous. In theory using draft capital in trades can work, but in some cases seems to reek of desperation (needing a center, so trading our top dman prospect to get a winger that hopefully could play center is perhaps the best example). 

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16 hours ago, Graeme-1 said:

This is a fair point. I'm not MB fan and think it's time to try another approach, but on trading specifically I think he's been above average. Even the trade I hated the most - Subban for Weber - arguably worked out okay given Subban's performance falling off a cliff a few years afterwards (even if Nashville got the better "peak"). Losing Sergachev was bad, especially in context of our defensive prospect pipeline - but every GM who's been in the job 10 years is going to have one or two of those. For the most part, his trades have either been winners or at least draws.

The problem has been MB has been overly reliant on trades and signings to plug holes in the lineup. Ignoring some of the fringe roster players / recent callups, how much of the "safe" roster has been drafted AND developed during MB's 10 years? I think it's basically Evans & Lehknonen, maybe Romanov if you consider his spot safe, and maybe Gallagher if you want to be generous. In theory using draft capital in trades can work, but in some cases seems to reek of desperation (needing a center, so trading our top dman prospect to get a winger that hopefully could play center is perhaps the best example). 

I'm just going to go out on a limb here and say when one looks back at our performance it would be a good idea for MB to lay down a law in Laval that our prospects have to concentrate on the original 6 idea ( that no team in the league is independent to refute the category and won't be) It would be something like the coaches need to update their plan to the point they admire those who can compete with those teams first and foremost and play scaled to those teams in game plan and training if not gauging the results.

I take your post to heart. I'm just thinking we are so capable of going off track and of course I'm supposing that there is some benefit to giving ourselves some credit for our history in the department of being original.

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On 11/13/2021 at 10:57 AM, Regis22 said:

Here is another perspective . Forget whether his trades have been great good , bad or whether Montreal has won or lost the trades .

Is the team better or is the team getting better under MB ?

 

Objectively we've gotten worse ... his first 5 years (the team he inherited) we had a winning pct of something like 0.550 or 0.575 ... his last 5 years and its closer to 0.400 (0.425 or there abouts).  

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Worst goal differential through the first 17 games of a season in Canadiens franchise history (1917-18 to present):
-24 in 1941-42
-22 in 2021-22 (Thanks to their 5-2 defeat against the Bruins tonight)
-21 in 1942-43
-20 in 1938-39
-16 in 2017-18
-15 in 1921-22
-14 in 1935-36

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7 minutes ago, electron58 said:

Worst goal differential through the first 17 games of a season in Canadiens franchise history (1917-18 to present):
-24 in 1941-42
-22 in 2021-22 (Thanks to their 5-2 defeat against the Bruins tonight)
-21 in 1942-43
-20 in 1938-39
-16 in 2017-18
-15 in 1921-22
-14 in 1935-36

That's VERY depressing. No doubt we will take over the #1 spot. 

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41 minutes ago, electron58 said:

Worst goal differential through the first 17 games of a season in Canadiens franchise history (1917-18 to present):
-24 in 1941-42
-22 in 2021-22 (Thanks to their 5-2 defeat against the Bruins tonight)
-21 in 1942-43
-20 in 1938-39
-16 in 2017-18
-15 in 1921-22
-14 in 1935-36

 

32 minutes ago, kinot-2 said:

That's VERY depressing. No doubt we will take over the #1 spot. 

It's gonna be a long year.

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49 minutes ago, jennifer_rocket said:

Indeed. Gonna be hard to come back from this poor start. Second last in our division (although Ottawa has two games in hand) and we'd have to leap frog seven teams to get into the wildcard spot.

That pretty much says it all. You'd have to get past 7 teams just to be at the edge of the playoff bubble!

I don't think this team is as bad as they have looked to start the year (especially when everyone is healthy) but I also don't think we're anything special. I think we could have been a bubble team if we hadn't had such a flat start/injury problem/bad luck but it is what it is. There's virtually no possible way we come back this year - it would take a 10 game winning streak just to get close to that bubble slot - and i think the team knows it.  Play out the season, get a high pick and start fresh this summer (Hopefully with a GM who has a plan).

A few key moves this summer, a healthy roster, who knows, we could he a much better team next season but this year is done like dinner. 

 

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49 minutes ago, jennifer_rocket said:

Indeed. Gonna be hard to come back from this poor start. Second last in our division (although Ottawa has two games in hand) and we'd have to leap frog seven teams to get into the wildcard spot.

That's the optimism of leapfrog - I am pessimistically reconciled to the fact that it's an 8 horse race towards the top pick in the draft consensus of Shane Wright - the 7 other teams being Arizona, Ottawa, Krakken, Barfalo, Canuckleheads, Columbus, and Dallas. Even if we get a top 5 pick there's some value.

Am looking forward to when we can be sellers and hope Chiarot gets us a mid to late 1st rounder and we get some 2nd rounders for other fodder on the roster. 

One thing I haven't seen in recent years is for Habs to actually trade up their picks vs trading down. 

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5 minutes ago, claremont said:

Sure is - looking more and more like a desperation move to fill a centre spot - badly needed yes but Dvorak is barely holding his own if that

Well he's ill suited to the role.

There's rumors that MB was talking to Arizona even before Danault had gone UFA and that between Dvorak & Evans they felt they would have a replacement for Danault.  But that still assumes we have JK. 

In that role, a 1st rounder for Dvorak was too much but, as you said, desperation led to moving a potentially high asset (plus the other pick) for a guy who should be a solid #3 but not a great regular #2. 

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23 minutes ago, maas_art said:

Well he's ill suited to the role.

There's rumors that MB was talking to Arizona even before Danault had gone UFA and that between Dvorak & Evans they felt they would have a replacement for Danault.  But that still assumes we have JK. 

In that role, a 1st rounder for Dvorak was too much but, as you said, desperation led to moving a potentially high asset (plus the other pick) for a guy who should be a solid #3 but not a great regular #2. 

yeah I had higher hopes for Dvorak, I thought he could be a poor man's second line center and he hasn't been able to do that. To be fair, pretty much the whole teams sucks

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Just now, habsisme said:

someone told me (I don't know where he heard this) that he's actually looking to sell the team

careful what you wish for...

https://www.markerzone.com/news/index.php?no=60951&s=100

On a 91.9 Sports radio show, host Martin Lemay said all signs point to the Canadiens being on the market.

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34 minutes ago, habsisme said:

yeah I had higher hopes for Dvorak, I thought he could be a poor man's second line center and he hasn't been able to do that. To be fair, pretty much the whole teams sucks

If everyone was healthy, id still be inclined to try Drouin at #2 centre. Him with Anderson on one wing and maybe Armia or another strong board guy could work. Then Dvorak slides back to 3rd, Evans to 4th etc. 

At his current salary he's good value even 1 line down, so id be interested with trying Suzuki - Drouin - Dvorak - Evans... at least until Shayne Wright leapfrogs all of them ;) 

 

15 minutes ago, habsisme said:

someone told me (I don't know where he heard this) that he's actually looking to sell the team

careful what you wish for...

Im not sure that would necessarily be a bad thing.  Molson is a super nice guy but he's always said he's not a "hockey mind."  The right owner could get this team back on track.  Of course you could get a miserly owner who wont spend to the cap & wont fire staff because of the extra cost but i dont think new ownership is necessarily a horrible development. 

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1 hour ago, Regis22 said:

https://www.markerzone.com/news/index.php?no=60951&s=100

On a 91.9 Sports radio show, host Martin Lemay said all signs point to the Canadiens being on the market.

 

1 hour ago, habsisme said:

Ah there you go! Thanks!

Those rumours have been floating around for quite awhile now. I remember reading something last year about another brewery ( Budweiser) being in the hunt. Molson as an owner has done very little with this franchise since taking over. He's been more concerned about offending the French media and politicians rather then getting down to the issue of building  a contender. It's a tightrope he's chosen to walk and IMO a policy that's failed him miserably. If it materializes, i would hope new owners take a different approach. Willing to bet that the biggest majority of Hab fans in Quebec would chose winning over language any day of the week.

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1 hour ago, maas_art said:

If everyone was healthy, id still be inclined to try Drouin at #2 centre. Him with Anderson on one wing and maybe Armia or another strong board guy could work. Then Dvorak slides back to 3rd, Evans to 4th etc. 

At his current salary he's good value even 1 line down, so id be interested with trying Suzuki - Drouin - Dvorak - Evans... at least until Shayne Wright leapfrogs all of them ;) 

 

Im not sure that would necessarily be a bad thing.  Molson is a super nice guy but he's always said he's not a "hockey mind."  The right owner could get this team back on track.  Of course you could get a miserly owner who wont spend to the cap & wont fire staff because of the extra cost but i dont think new ownership is necessarily a horrible development. 

I like what Evans has brought over the last few games and want to see him swapped with Dvorak and Poehling remain. Evans offensive talent is underrated IMO.

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14 minutes ago, H_T_L said:

 

Those rumours have been floating around for quite awhile now. I remember reading something last year about another brewery ( Budweiser) being in the hunt. Molson as an owner has done very little with this franchise since taking over. He's been more concerned about offending the French media and politicians rather then getting down to the issue of building  a contender. It's a tightrope he's chosen to walk and IMO a policy that's failed him miserably. If it materializes, i would hope new owners take a different approach. Willing to bet that the biggest majority of Hab fans in Quebec would chose winning over language any day of the week.

It's an investment. He bought the team, it makes money, one day he'll sell it for more than he bought it for. However, I see no reason why he would offload it now.

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