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2021-22 State of the Habs


H_T_L
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40 minutes ago, H_T_L said:

After the unexpected win in SJ last night, next up are B2B's in LA and Anaheim,,, which means Monty likely gets another start. This is like Neimi all over again. :rolleyes:

No way Jake Allen can keep standing on his head, like Carey did during his younger years. we're actually worse off in goal now! When we thought it would be one of our strengths.

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42 minutes ago, H_T_L said:

After the unexpected win in SJ last night, next up are B2B's in LA and Anaheim,,, which means Monty likely gets another start. This is like Neimi all over again. :rolleyes:

IMO, I think we’ve been unreasonably hard on Montenbeau. The guy has played two games with us, one preseason and one regular, and both games we were terrible in front of him. Allan has put up a few stinkers as well, and last night he gets the shutout. I don’t see the benefit of not getting behind this kid…

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20 minutes ago, MALMACIAN_CRUNCH said:

IMO, I think we’ve been unreasonably hard on Montenbeau. The guy has played two games with us, one preseason and one regular, and both games we were terrible in front of him. Allan has put up a few stinkers as well, and last night he gets the shutout. I don’t see the benefit of not getting behind this kid…

Agree.  The other thing to consider is that I guarantee MB didn't just pull his name out of a hat when we claimed him. Im sure that Sean Burke and Eric Raymond were both consulted - heck they may have been the catalysts for claiming him. Maybe they see something in him & have been working with him. Its not unheard of for a goalie to take time to develop. He was drafted relatively high (75th or so i think?) and never really had strong numbers, even in junior, so you have to wonder if there's something about him that makes the experts say "thoroughbred' as Gainey did in  reference to Price when he hadn't yet established himself.   

In any event, I dont see MB going out & getting someone else so its definitely a "get behind him" sort of situation because he's pretty much it until Price comes back.  \

 

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Yeah,,,, my bad on seemingly pinning this all on Monty. He hasn't played enough games to be branded a failure with us yet. It's a precarious situation for him no doubt with the team play in front of him at this point in the season. It almost feels like the only way we can win right now is if a goalie stands on his head so that the guys can loosen their grip on sticks and get into a flow. The team had no quit in them last year in the playoffs and we weren't left with the feeling it was game over whenever we were trailing. This version seems so fragile when trailing and doesn't come close to that same feeling. 

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3 hours ago, H_T_L said:

Yeah,,,, my bad on seemingly pinning this all on Monty. He hasn't played enough games to be branded a failure with us yet. It's a precarious situation for him no doubt with the team play in front of him at this point in the season. It almost feels like the only way we can win right now is if a goalie stands on his head so that the guys can loosen their grip on sticks and get into a flow. The team had no quit in them last year in the playoffs and we weren't left with the feeling it was game over whenever we were trailing. This version seems so fragile when trailing and doesn't come close to that same feeling. 

Its a crap situation because as I said above, I suspect Burke and/or Raymond targeted Monty as a guy they could help develop. I imagine they thought he'd only have to play a game or two & then get sent down (if he cleared) and they could work with him.  No such luxury now.  Hopefully the couple of weeks theyve had with him have helped but I wouldnt bet on it. 

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41 minutes ago, maas_art said:

Its a crap situation because as I said above, I suspect Burke and/or Raymond targeted Monty as a guy they could help develop. I imagine they thought he'd only have to play a game or two & then get sent down (if he cleared) and they could work with him.  No such luxury now.  Hopefully the couple of weeks theyve had with him have helped but I wouldnt bet on it. 

My question is whether he's really any better than McNiven/Primeau/etc. who were already in the organization. Doesn't seem like it so far. McNiven is already complaining that he's done everything asked of him and keeps getting bypassed by other goalies who he's outplayed (Lindgren cough cough)... Montembeault seems to fit that description too.

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30 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

My question is whether he's really any better than McNiven/Primeau/etc. who were already in the organization. Doesn't seem like it so far. McNiven is already complaining that he's done everything asked of him and keeps getting bypassed by other goalies who he's outplayed (Lindgren cough cough)... Montembeault seems to fit that description too.

For sure - and McNiven is not wrong.  At this point he absolutely deserves/d a shot but again, if they think Monty is the next waiver steal like Bryzgalov or Nabukov then you take that chance. It sucks for guys in our system already but it is a business.  

That said Im not sure what they see in Monty - or if they can bring it out -but I really dont think it was simply a random pickup. I think they believe they can develop him, otherwise they would have brought someone up from Laval imho. 

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28 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

My question is whether he's really any better than McNiven/Primeau/etc. who were already in the organization. Doesn't seem like it so far. McNiven is already complaining that he's done everything asked of him and keeps getting bypassed by other goalies who he's outplayed (Lindgren cough cough)... Montembeault seems to fit that description too.

 

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On 10/29/2021 at 4:02 PM, BigTed3 said:

My question is whether he's really any better than McNiven/Primeau/etc. who were already in the organization. Doesn't seem like it so far. McNiven is already complaining that he's done everything asked of him and keeps getting bypassed by other goalies who he's outplayed (Lindgren cough cough)... Montembeault seems to fit that description too.

I've been pointing out that McNiven has deserved more of a chance in the organization for years. Meanwhile we wasted his development trying to pretend a mid-20s Lindgren was gonna develop into something other than an AHL starter. I wouldn't blame McNiven for being frustrated.

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Besides the playoffs, any idea how many games the team has actually won under DD? It certainly doesn't feel like many. 

This team looks lost. I know that there are some holes to fill, particularly on the back end, and Price being out is a huge loss but I do not believe this team should be THIS bad. We certainly shouldn't be having such difficulty putting the puck in the net. 

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^^^^ His regular season record is 17W and 29L. IMO he has lost the room and needs to be replaced

Weber and Price led the team during last year's play-off run as they realized it was their last chance to win a Cup. Unfortunately their leadership led to DD getting a contract.

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27 minutes ago, MuddyWaterMoose said:

..........but I do not believe this team should be THIS bad. ......................... 

Why not ?

Asking for discussion purposes  only not to create anything ,

The past 4 years the regular season has not been very good . They missed the playoffs 2 yrs . Two years ago they would have missed the playoffs if not for the buy in round . And last year they made the playoffs ( forget that they went to the finals ) with the worst record in the league . This year they lost Price and Weber ( and a few others  )  

PS FYI I also  thought the players they added should have been enough to offset the players they lost and they should have been at least competitive but this is sad

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1 hour ago, Regis22 said:

Why not ?

Asking for discussion purposes  only not to create anything ,

The past 4 years the regular season has not been very good . They missed the playoffs 2 yrs . Two years ago they would have missed the playoffs if not for the buy in round . And last year they made the playoffs ( forget that they went to the finals ) with the worst record in the league . This year they lost Price and Weber ( and a few others  )  

PS FYI I also  thought the players they added should have been enough to offset the players they lost and they should have been at least competitive but this is sad

We were hoping for that puck moving D, but sadly, Petry isn't even playing well.  It looks like we are doooomed.

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On 10/29/2021 at 2:32 PM, BigTed3 said:

My question is whether he's really any better than McNiven/Primeau/etc. who were already in the organization. Doesn't seem like it so far. McNiven is already complaining that he's done everything asked of him and keeps getting bypassed by other goalies who he's outplayed (Lindgren cough cough)... Montembeault seems to fit that description too.

Kinda like when they had Halak. Treated him the same way.

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This keeps getting uglier and I for one preached at least 20 games. I dont think it would be as bad a feeling if these were close games and we were not getting the bounces. We are just being brutally outplayed. And not by team likes Colorado or Tampa etc top tier teams. The teams smoking us should be the bottom feeder teams.

I think Mr Ducharme is in way over his head. We have huge gaping holes all over the ice. No puck support at all. 

Hate to say this, but where is Julien ..LOL

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2 hours ago, MuddyWaterMoose said:

Besides the playoffs, any idea how many games the team has actually won under DD? It certainly doesn't feel like many. 

This team looks lost. I know that there are some holes to fill, particularly on the back end, and Price being out is a huge loss but I do not believe this team should be THIS bad. We certainly shouldn't be having such difficulty putting the puck in the net. 

- Powerplay bad but has been bad for a while

- PK very bad, which is new under Ducharme

- Not very good possession stats this year. We were way better under Julien.

- Very little cohesion in terms of a system for puck support

- Poor team discipline

- Ducharme seems to have lost the room, has exerted no leadership himself, and today blamed the players and said it's not his job to get them motivated every two days (um, actually it is)

He's been fairly useless as a coach. Most of the things that can actually be influenced by a coach don't seem to be going well. I don't really know why he's here, and it's looking worse and worse that we chose to keep him and let Bouchard walk.

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29 minutes ago, Regis22 said:

Team held a 20 minute closed door meeting after the L A game 

 

I still say they need to go bowling 

Odd reports because media said it was players-only, and Ducharme came out to do press while they were still meeting, but then after the fact, it turned out that Bergevin went in and lectured the team... doesn't bode well for the coach if the GM's going in there but has the coach leave. Kind of feels like he's not part of the plan.

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59 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

Odd reports because media said it was players-only, and Ducharme came out to do press while they were still meeting, but then after the fact, it turned out that Bergevin went in and lectured the team... doesn't bode well for the coach if the GM's going in there but has the coach leave. Kind of feels like he's not part of the plan.

MB needs to be not part of the plan, He let 2 top 9 centers go for very little in return and only replaced 1. In my book that is ridiculous and grounds to be fired! I said when it was announced that we were letting KK go that Dvorak was not enough. Many were expecting Dvorak to have a breakout year, why IDK he had never put up top 6 numbers. Even still they said wait 10 games or so you will see how much of an upgrade Dvorak is on KK. Well we are 9 games in and the only thing I think of Dvorak is that he is an upgrade on Evans. Little offense, good defense and strong in the faceoff dots, mirrors Evans exactly! We need a top line center for the umpteenth time in the last 30 years. Zuke might become that but right now he looks overwhelmed. Let's just say screw it and trade Anderson + Dvorak + Tuch + Yelonen + 2023 1st (conditional) + 2024 1st (conditional)

Conditions:

>1.0 ppg unconditional 

.75-.99 ppg top 10 protected 

.50-.74 ppg top 16 protected 

<.50 ppg 2nd round pick

Eichel is likely not playing this season and Montreal has pretty much tanked the season anyway so let's do it have Eichel get his surgery while we continue to suck and get a top 10 pick out of it as well. Who knows maybe we wi also win the Wright lottery.

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8 hours ago, campabee82 said:

MB needs to be not part of the plan, He let 2 top 9 centers go for very little in return and only replaced 1. In my book that is ridiculous and grounds to be fired! I said when it was announced that we were letting KK go that Dvorak was not enough. Many were expecting Dvorak to have a breakout year, why IDK he had never put up top 6 numbers. Even still they said wait 10 games or so you will see how much of an upgrade Dvorak is on KK. Well we are 9 games in and the only thing I think of Dvorak is that he is an upgrade on Evans. Little offense, good defense and strong in the faceoff dots, mirrors Evans exactly! We need a top line center for the umpteenth time in the last 30 years. Zuke might become that but right now he looks overwhelmed. Let's just say screw it and trade Anderson + Dvorak + Tuch + Yelonen + 2023 1st (conditional) + 2024 1st (conditional)

Conditions:

>1.0 ppg unconditional 

.75-.99 ppg top 10 protected 

.50-.74 ppg top 16 protected 

<.50 ppg 2nd round pick

Eichel is likely not playing this season and Montreal has pretty much tanked the season anyway so let's do it have Eichel get his surgery while we continue to suck and get a top 10 pick out of it as well. Who knows maybe we wi also win the Wright lottery.

Dvorak has been fine. He hasn't done anything extraordinary on his own but his line is playing well. His possession numbers are slightly under 50% and pretty much on target with what he's done his entire career. And he's on track to hit 35-40 points, which is also smack on target for what he's done his entire career. So I don't think anyone can say Dvorak isn't doing what Dvorak does. This is Dvorak. He's a middle 6 center who plays a sound positional game and puts up an average amount of points. There was always a small chance he broke out in a new system, but I said the following at the time of the trade:

- He's not a 1C and at 25 years old with 5 years NHL experience under his belt, he wasn't likely to suddenly jump up into another echelon of production. He has a known floor, whereby you know he's going to give you a certain amount of production and utility, but his ability to grow and hit a higher-end potential were very low.

- While we can say that Arizona was an awful team, Dvorak also benefited from getting lots of ice time with Arizona, way more than Kotkaniemi got here. As a result, it's not like we could say he was putting up 35 points in 12 minutes of ice a night. He was putting up those numbers with 16.5-18.5 minutes a night the past two years including PP time. This year, he's getting slightly under 19 minutes. But those extra 30 seconds a night aren't going to translate into 20 extra points per year all by themselves.

- He wasn't worth a 1st and a 2nd round pick, especially when that meant you were giving up more than you got in return for Kotkaniemi. I also said that I expected JK to struggle in year one with Carolina, as he shifted to a new organization and new position at wing, well down the depth chart on a strong roster. But I also expect JK to get more opportunity next year as the Carolina roster turns over a bit. Again, it's not to say Kotkaniemi will become a star, but at 21 and without ever having had big minutes or big opportunity, there's more room for him to grow there, and he's doing it on the background of having been a strong possession player here for us already.

The only thing that has really disappointed me about Dvorak since he arrived here is his demeanor. He seems to be a bit like Shea Weber: gives an effort but seems to be completely devoid of emotion. He doesn't look like he's enjoying himself out there, he doesn't ever smile, he doesn't really even celebrate that much after scoring. And while we can say results are results and as long as he performs who cares, this team as a whole really lacks leadership and it looks like they aren't having much fun at all. So I worry other players take cues from his lack of enjoyment and feel like he isn't invested. Other than that, he's pretty much bang on with what I thought we were getting. And if I could go back, I'd still rather have kept Kotkaniemi for the one year at 6.1M and never made those draft pick swaps.

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