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2021-22 State of the Habs


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1 hour ago, Regis22 said:

While watching the game last night the camera was focused on Luke R . I  think it was Garry Galley who said something to the effect that Luke Richardson has done a wonderful job with the defence .  

 

 

The question is: was he being facetious or do the media buy the MB Koolaid "we have so many injuries, poor us" excuse.    Yes, losing Weber and Edmundson sucks but even with the guys we have left over this defense should be better than it is. 

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37 minutes ago, maas_art said:

The question is: was he being facetious or do the media buy the MB Koolaid "we have so many injuries, poor us" excuse.    Yes, losing Weber and Edmundson sucks but even with the guys we have left over this defense should be better than it is. 

Should it? we have three retreads or reclamation projects in Savard Wideman and Niku our best D man fell off a cliff and is actually hurting the team! Eddy would have been the most steady D man on the team but he is hurt Webber is done Romanov is still learning and has good and bad nights leaving Kulak who also has good and bad nights . Richardson has been handed a butter knife to go fight a gun fight!

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Just now, ramcharger440 said:

Should it? we have three retreads or reclamation projects in Savard Wideman and Niku our best D man fell off a cliff and is actually hurting the team! Eddy would have been the most steady D man on the team but he is hurt Webber is done Romanov is still learning and has good and bad nights leaving Kulak who also has good and bad nights . Richardson has been handed a butter knife to go fight a gun fight!

Sorry I forgot about Norlinder......well he may turn out ok but this is not the year to find out!

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47 minutes ago, ramcharger440 said:

Should it? we have three retreads or reclamation projects in Savard Wideman and Niku our best D man fell off a cliff and is actually hurting the team! Eddy would have been the most steady D man on the team but he is hurt Webber is done Romanov is still learning and has good and bad nights leaving Kulak who also has good and bad nights . Richardson has been handed a butter knife to go fight a gun fight!

Dont get me wrong, im not saying it should be good.  With the players he's been given Richardson is starting the race going uphill.   But playing Savard this much has not made us better.  Playing Savard + Chiarot was a disaster on paper, a disaster in games and it took waaay too long to break them up - and then occasionally we go back to them. When armchair coaches are saying "this wont work" with full confidence but the coaches still try it for 5 games and realize "this wont work"... this is not a good sign. 

So while i 100% agree that he doesnt have a lot to work with, the deployment has been awful. 

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25 minutes ago, maas_art said:

Dont get me wrong, im not saying it should be good.  With the players he's been given Richardson is starting the race going uphill.   But playing Savard this much has not made us better.  Playing Savard + Chiarot was a disaster on paper, a disaster in games and it took waaay too long to break them up - and then occasionally we go back to them. When armchair coaches are saying "this wont work" with full confidence but the coaches still try it for 5 games and realize "this wont work"... this is not a good sign. 

So while i 100% agree that he doesnt have a lot to work with, the deployment has been awful. 

I hear ya but does he make the decision on the pairings? at the end of the day there is a lot we don't know for sure! I am not looking to defend him that much but there have been so many odd things going on with this team the last few years it is hard to figure out what is really going on!

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48 minutes ago, ramcharger440 said:

I hear ya but does he make the decision on the pairings? at the end of the day there is a lot we don't know for sure! I am not looking to defend him that much but there have been so many odd things going on with this team the last few years it is hard to figure out what is really going on!

And thats fair. He's been listed as the defensive coach & PK coach so the assumption is that he has most of the say there but ultimately it comes down to DD accepting his plans... and, for all we know... MB sticking his nose in. Tough to say. 

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1 hour ago, ramcharger440 said:

I hear ya but does he make the decision on the pairings? at the end of the day there is a lot we don't know for sure! I am not looking to defend him that much but there have been so many odd things going on with this team the last few years it is hard to figure out what is really going on!

 

38 minutes ago, maas_art said:

And thats fair. He's been listed as the defensive coach & PK coach so the assumption is that he has most of the say there but ultimately it comes down to DD accepting his plans... and, for all we know... MB sticking his nose in. Tough to say. 

TBH I don't care how much say he has, his name is listed as the D and PK coach he is ultimately responsible whether he allows someone else to make the decisions or he himself does. His department his responsibility, we hung Timmins draft failure on MB because he overseen Timmins why shouldn't we hang the PK and D failures over the last however long on Richardson seeing as he oversees them? We can argue the HC makes final decisions on deployment and players available for the PK and whatever but the system and pairings that is all on the defensive coach (Richardson).

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5 minutes ago, campabee82 said:

 

TBH I don't care how much say he has, his name is listed as the D and PK coach he is ultimately responsible whether he allows someone else to make the decisions or he himself does. His department his responsibility, we hung Timmins draft failure on MB because he overseen Timmins why shouldn't we hang the PK and D failures over the last however long on Richardson seeing as he oversees them? We can argue the HC makes final decisions on deployment and players available for the PK and whatever but the system and pairings that is all on the defensive coach (Richardson).

It's hard to soar with eagles when you work with turkeys.

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11 minutes ago, habs1952 said:

It's hard to soar with eagles when you work with turkeys.

Yes but I he really an eagle when he makes pairings like Alzner-Weber, Schlemko-Weber, Benn-Weber, Chiarot-Savard, Wideman-Niku, Kulak-Niku, and Kulak Wideman? He pairs slow defensive D men in the top 4 together and smooth skating offensive D men together on the bottom pairing when we should be pairing an offensive guy with a defensive guy like the Edmundson-Petry pairing through the lineup. Our D sucks it has the entire time that Richardson has been in charge as has the PK. It is only in the playoffs when the play gets tighter where the D and PK become effective. That isn't because of anything the coach has done, it is because the play style changes in the playoffs. IMO he should have been fired with Muller and Julian because nothing he did back then was working either just as it still is not working now.

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I understand that Richardson hasn't had a ton to work with, but i'm also in agreement about how questionable his pairings are this year. This team is giving up around 40 shots a game. You would think somebody on this team would get in front of some of those. Every game this season has seen guys out of position over and over again. Isn't that the D coach's job to make sure everybody knows their assignments? I haven't been impressed at all with any of this coaching staff. The D sucks, the forwards are a mess and our special teams are the joke of the League. I'm all for replacing the whole bunch.

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40 minutes ago, H_T_L said:

I understand that Richardson hasn't had a ton to work with, but i'm also in agreement about how questionable his pairings are this year. This team is giving up around 40 shots a game. You would think somebody on this team would get in front of some of those. Every game this season has seen guys out of position over and over again. Isn't that the D coach's job to make sure everybody knows their assignments? I haven't been impressed at all with any of this coaching staff. The D sucks, the forwards are a mess and our special teams are the joke of the League. I'm all for replacing the whole bunch.

Yup, I'm with you on this. Oh, can we at least keep the stick boy, he has nothing to do with the mess on the ice. :)

 

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According to Dreger Montreal is considering a long term position for Weber in the organization (this insinuates he us officially retiring IMO, that would really really suck for Nashville). I would look at replacing Richardson with Weber as D and PK coach.

 

https://www.prohockeyrumors.com/2021/11/east-notes-canadiens-debrusk-stamkos.html#ref=home

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55 minutes ago, H_T_L said:

I understand that Richardson hasn't had a ton to work with, but i'm also in agreement about how questionable his pairings are this year. This team is giving up around 40 shots a game. You would think somebody on this team would get in front of some of those. Every game this season has seen guys out of position over and over again. Isn't that the D coach's job to make sure everybody knows their assignments? I haven't been impressed at all with any of this coaching staff. The D sucks, the forwards are a mess and our special teams are the joke of the League. I'm all for replacing the whole bunch.

This.  The first thing Julien did when he got the job was to instigate a split zone system which was clearly designed to help the 2 or 3 slower dmen we had. They played zone, their partner & wings played man to man - it worked well (but was harder for some guys to catch on to) but now we've got even more slow players (slower and more of them) and seemingly no system other than "skate around & hope to catch someone"

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9 hours ago, campabee82 said:

According to Dreger Montreal is considering a long term position for Weber in the organization (this insinuates he us officially retiring IMO, that would really really suck for Nashville). I would look at replacing Richardson with Weber as D and PK coach.

 

https://www.prohockeyrumors.com/2021/11/east-notes-canadiens-debrusk-stamkos.html#ref=home

I'd be hesitant to bring Weber in as a coach. For one, he's been a teammate to most of these guys, which lends itself to issues with how much he'd be willing to reward/punish his friends. Second, he comes from the school of being big/tough/gritty and while certainly much more talented than Bergevin, may have the same issue as MB in terms of not recognizing the evolution of the game and the need for faster puck-moving D men.

 

9 hours ago, maas_art said:

This.  The first thing Julien did when he got the job was to instigate a split zone system which was clearly designed to help the 2 or 3 slower dmen we had. They played zone, their partner & wings played man to man - it worked well (but was harder for some guys to catch on to) but now we've got even more slow players (slower and more of them) and seemingly no system other than "skate around & hope to catch someone"

The thing is, we've played a number of games this year where we've had 4 more mobile D men... Petry, Romanov, Niku, Wideman, Kulak, Norlinder... they're not all stand-outs in terms of decision-making and ability to skate with the puck, but they're decent skaters. I think the entire thing speaks to three problems:

1. Despite having some decent skaters, it is becoming harder and harder to hide a weak player like Savard in the line-up. No matter who he has played with, that pairing has struggled.

2. The lack of top-end players. Petry was one up until this year but has struggled this season. Outside of that there are no top 3 D men and no guys who eat big minutes giving you quality ice time. We don't have a Hedman, Werenski, Heiskanen, Makar, etc. and while I think Petry can still play like a #1 D man if he's asked to do it for 20 minutes a night, I think he's struggling to carry that load playing 24 minutes a night with a less-skilled partner, which is what we've asked him to do.

3. The system is weak. As you just spoke to, every single player in the system seems to be struggling. Is there a defenceman who has looked better under Ducharme than they did without him? But at this point, I don't think it's just a matter of developing something that profits the slower D men. I think it's a problem where we need better puck support and more movement on the ice. You need to be hitting guys in stride going up the ice and a lot of the breakouts are fairly stagnant. You have a couple of guys just standing still between the red line and the offensive blue line and not helping in any way.

 

 

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10 hours ago, campabee82 said:

According to Dreger Montreal is considering a long term position for Weber in the organization (this insinuates he us officially retiring IMO, that would really really suck for Nashville). I would look at replacing Richardson with Weber as D and PK coach.

 

https://www.prohockeyrumors.com/2021/11/east-notes-canadiens-debrusk-stamkos.html#ref=home

Not sure but does Webber have any coaching experience? don't know if that is a good idea?

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40 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

I'd be hesitant to bring Weber in as a coach. For one, he's been a teammate to most of these guys, which lends itself to issues with how much he'd be willing to reward/punish his friends. Second, he comes from the school of being big/tough/gritty and while certainly much more talented than Bergevin, may have the same issue as MB in terms of not recognizing the evolution of the game and the need for faster puck-moving D men.

Same - I would think Gorton would want to put his own stamp on this team and not have the Weber hangover from the Bergevin era. Your 2nd point supports not even having Weber as a Western Canada scout (lives in BC), unless he is looking for players with character and intensity as he may downgrade the raw skating requirement. No secret Weber loves the game but I don't see him moving to Laval to support the AHL team either. 

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11 hours ago, campabee82 said:

According to Dreger Montreal is considering a long term position for Weber in the organization (this insinuates he us officially retiring IMO, that would really really suck for Nashville). I would look at replacing Richardson with Weber as D and PK coach.

 

https://www.prohockeyrumors.com/2021/11/east-notes-canadiens-debrusk-stamkos.html#ref=home

Good lord no.     Enough with taking players and putting them into the organization.    Let him go learn the trade in the CHL/ECHL/AHL first.      We have tons of examples where taking ex-players and making them coaches/executives just doesn't work out.  Looking at you Rejean Houle and Mario Tremblay

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1 hour ago, HabsAlways said:

Good lord no.     Enough with taking players and putting them into the organization.    Let him go learn the trade in the CHL/ECHL/AHL first.      We have tons of examples where taking ex-players and making them coaches/executives just doesn't work out.  Looking at you Rejean Houle and Mario Tremblay

I can cherry pick names as well, Toe Blake and Dick Irvin both former players both very successful coaches for the Habs. The problem isn't that former players don't work out in coach/executive positions, it has been our choices of those former players lately. Sakic, Blake, Wilson are examples of executives that have worked out so far as well. Weber as an associate coach isn't like he would be head coach (He would probably be better than DD anyway). Weber has been around a long time and has stayed relevant by adapting his game based on his skills, that is some serious hockey IQ right there and something easily passed on to the younger players. If you don't want to start him as the Associate Coach put him in charge of defensive player development or something like that to see how he does.

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https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/32-thoughts-canadiens-commit-to-foundational-change-olympic-optimism-dims/

32 THOUGHTS

1. Even before Gorton’s hiring, multiple sources indicate Daniel Briere’s name came up internally as a possibility for the GM position. So, ECHL Maine’s president is going to get a long look here.

I always assume there are candidates I’m not yet aware of, but other legit options include: Tampa Bay director of hockey operations Mathieu Darche and, depending on his desire, Anaheim assistant GM Martin Madden. One of the questions candidates at that level may ask is, is it really a promotion to go from their current position to Canadiens’ GM with Gorton already there? Roberto Luongo would make sense, too, and he’s going to be a GM someday. The lure of the Canadiens is tempting for anyone from the province, but is the timing right for him? The Panthers have a good thing going, and he’s learning a ton.

2. There’s zero harm in talking to Patrick Roy. What it comes down to is what everyone, including Roy, is willing to accept.

3. Shea Weber was in Montreal for a physical, the second time he’s been asked to meet with team doctors this season. (The first was when the Canadiens were in Seattle.) Generally, players on long-term injury who aren’t expected to play are only required to get checked out at the start of training camp, but Weber’s drawn extra scrutiny from the NHL. I think he’d be playing if he could, but this is where we are.

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18 minutes ago, Regis22 said:

https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/32-thoughts-canadiens-commit-to-foundational-change-olympic-optimism-dims/

32 THOUGHTS

1. Even before Gorton’s hiring, multiple sources indicate Daniel Briere’s name came up internally as a possibility for the GM position. So, ECHL Maine’s president is going to get a long look here.

I always assume there are candidates I’m not yet aware of, but other legit options include: Tampa Bay director of hockey operations Mathieu Darche and, depending on his desire, Anaheim assistant GM Martin Madden. One of the questions candidates at that level may ask is, is it really a promotion to go from their current position to Canadiens’ GM with Gorton already there? Roberto Luongo would make sense, too, and he’s going to be a GM someday. The lure of the Canadiens is tempting for anyone from the province, but is the timing right for him? The Panthers have a good thing going, and he’s learning a ton.

2. There’s zero harm in talking to Patrick Roy. What it comes down to is what everyone, including Roy, is willing to accept.

3. Shea Weber was in Montreal for a physical, the second time he’s been asked to meet with team doctors this season. (The first was when the Canadiens were in Seattle.) Generally, players on long-term injury who aren’t expected to play are only required to get checked out at the start of training camp, but Weber’s drawn extra scrutiny from the NHL. I think he’d be playing if he could, but this is where we are.

hmm I'm curious about the extra scrutiny. I have no doubt in my mind if Weber could play, he would be. 

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9 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

Ducharme today stated that Caufield playing on the PP tomorrow would depend on whether players like Kulak, Perreault, or Wideman are back in the line-up. Most in the media believe that implies CC will be sent back to Laval when other players are healthy.

thats fine with me, but stop calling him back up then, this back and forth can't be good for him. Make him DOMINATE for at least 20 games in AHL and THEN maybe you call hiim back up

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33 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

Ducharme today stated that Caufield playing on the PP tomorrow would depend on whether players like Kulak, Perreault, or Wideman are back in the line-up. Most in the media believe that implies CC will be sent back to Laval when other players are healthy.

The season is over , why not bury some of these players on Robidas Island 

PS for those that do not know Robidas island was a ruynning gag in Leafland 

Once the calendar turned to 2016 there would be a number of players receiving a one-way ticket to the island for the remainder of the season as it was clear that the Maple Leafs were indeed trying to tank as they tried to secure the highest odds for the number one overall pick.

Prominent players such as James Van Riemsdyk (non-displaced fracture in his left foot) and Joffrey Lupul (sports hernia surgery) were pretty much told not to rush back and to take their time while they rehab any injuries.

 

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