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2021-22 State of the Habs


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13 minutes ago, habsisme said:

I liked him too until the moron made what I believe to be the worst trade in our history and there was no excuse for it 

agreed, even though Houle caused the situation Gainey should have fired him and tried to keep Roy. Coaches can't embarrass players and expect to be backed by the GM. 

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1 hour ago, jennifer_rocket said:

I don't mind this. I actually liked Gainey when he was our GM. No problem with him assisting in the search.

I liked gainey too. i think he was playing the long game which is tricky for a GM because he clearly didnt get the time to see it come to fruition (I know he resigned but i think it was a "quit or you're fired" scenario). The team MB inherited was mostly Gainey/Gauthier and i think we're worse off today then we were then. 

1 hour ago, habsisme said:

I liked him too until the moron made what I believe to be the worst trade in our history and there was no excuse for it 

I assume you mean gomez for mcdonaugh etc.   It wasnt a great trade but it was a shift in culture and signified the first real break from the spinning we had done for the previous decade or so.   GMs gotta be ok with taking risks - that was really one of MB's biggest downfalls. 

At least with this "bad" trade Gainey followed it up with good moves like adding Gionta, Cammaleri etc.  He transformed the team in one season & we were finally on the right track.  MB would make a good trade but then do nothing to follow it up.  I'll take the GM with the big plan over the guy who is scared to screw up so all he does is tinker.

 

43 minutes ago, Regis22 said:

Sorry , but I thought Gainey got fired and Ronald Corey brought in Houle as GM . And Houle brought in Tremblay , Shutt etc as his coaching staff

It was Houle  who made the ROY trade to Colorado . 

Yeah im not sure what that was all about but Houle was the GM responsible for the Roy Fiasco - and, imho the worse move: Turgeon for spare parts - as well as Recchi for Zubrus, Linden for a 1st, Bure for spare parts - and some terrible drafting like Higgins, Chouinard, Hossa with high picks. 

Gainey, while not perfect, looks like Sam Pollock compared with Houle and even MB 

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2 minutes ago, Regis22 said:

Remember Houle,  Tremblay, Shutt , Cournoyer were brought in as GM, coach and assistant coaches because they all knew what it took to win the Stanley Cup  ...lol 

I don't remember Shutt or Cournoyer. Maybe because the other 2 fools left a lasting impression?

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1 hour ago, maas_art said:

I liked gainey too. i think he was playing the long game which is tricky for a GM because he clearly didnt get the time to see it come to fruition (I know he resigned but i think it was a "quit or you're fired" scenario). The team MB inherited was mostly Gainey/Gauthier and i think we're worse off today then we were then. 

I assume you mean gomez for mcdonaugh etc.   It wasnt a great trade but it was a shift in culture and signified the first real break from the spinning we had done for the previous decade or so.   GMs gotta be ok with taking risks - that was really one of MB's biggest downfalls. 

At least with this "bad" trade Gainey followed it up with good moves like adding Gionta, Cammaleri etc.  He transformed the team in one season & we were finally on the right track.  MB would make a good trade but then do nothing to follow it up.  I'll take the GM with the big plan over the guy who is scared to screw up so all he does is tinker.

 

Yeah im not sure what that was all about but Houle was the GM responsible for the Roy Fiasco - and, imho the worse move: Turgeon for spare parts - as well as Recchi for Zubrus, Linden for a 1st, Bure for spare parts - and some terrible drafting like Higgins, Chouinard, Hossa with high picks. 

Gainey, while not perfect, looks like Sam Pollock compared with Houle and even MB 

Higgins was not that bad we had Ryder there too when he first started out. I think they were part of the horrible development our team had at that time. Gainey was not bad and neither was Gauthier but they did nothing to improve the team from a drafting and development standpoint or at least nothing that stuck!

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1 hour ago, maas_art said:

I liked gainey too. i think he was playing the long game which is tricky for a GM because he clearly didnt get the time to see it come to fruition (I know he resigned but i think it was a "quit or you're fired" scenario). The team MB inherited was mostly Gainey/Gauthier and i think we're worse off today then we were then. 

I assume you mean gomez for mcdonaugh etc.   It wasnt a great trade but it was a shift in culture and signified the first real break from the spinning we had done for the previous decade or so.   GMs gotta be ok with taking risks - that was really one of MB's biggest downfalls. 

At least with this "bad" trade Gainey followed it up with good moves like adding Gionta, Cammaleri etc.  He transformed the team in one season & we were finally on the right track.  MB would make a good trade but then do nothing to follow it up.  I'll take the GM with the big plan over the guy who is scared to screw up so all he does is tinker.

 

Yeah im not sure what that was all about but Houle was the GM responsible for the Roy Fiasco - and, imho the worse move: Turgeon for spare parts - as well as Recchi for Zubrus, Linden for a 1st, Bure for spare parts - and some terrible drafting like Higgins, Chouinard, Hossa with high picks. 

Gainey, while not perfect, looks like Sam Pollock compared with Houle and even MB 

I liked Gainey, second best GM we've had since 93 (I think MB was our best). But that Gomez trade was just sbaolutely ridiculous. We were doing them a favor taking on that contract and we gave a bunch, including McDonagh for the right to do it. 

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21 minutes ago, electron58 said:

I don't remember Shutt or Cournoyer. Maybe because the other 2 fools left a lasting impression?

From 1993 to 1997, he worked on the Canadiens coaching staff as an assistant coach to Mario Tremblay.

https://www.habseyesontheprize.com/history/2020/9/7/21376245/the-story-of-canadiens-assistant-coaches-part-v-laperrieres-impressive-run-comes-to-end-habs-legend

 

The 1995-96 season was tumultuous. Four games into the season Demers, Thiffault, and General Manager Serge Savard were re-assigned or fired in a massive, poorly-timed, hockey operations reboot. Team President Ronald Corey relied on the past to guide the present team towards future success. Réjean Houle was named the new General Manager, Mario Tremblay the new head coach, and Canadiens’ legend Yvan Cournoyer the new assistant coach. None of them had any previous experience in their roles.

Although Tremblay retained Shutt and Laperrière on his bench, Cournoyer struggled to develop a rapport with the players, and they often spoke negatively about him to the media. So bad was the situation around Cournoyer, that he began doing scouting trips over coaching less than a year into his nomination.

Meanwhile, Shutt struggled to pull the team’s power play out of the basement.

At the conclusion of the 1996-97 season, Tremblay resigned as head coach, leaving the fate of his assistants in the hands of newcomer head coach Alain Vigneault.

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10 minutes ago, Regis22 said:

From 1993 to 1997, he worked on the Canadiens coaching staff as an assistant coach to Mario Tremblay.

https://www.habseyesontheprize.com/history/2020/9/7/21376245/the-story-of-canadiens-assistant-coaches-part-v-laperrieres-impressive-run-comes-to-end-habs-legend

 

The 1995-96 season was tumultuous. Four games into the season Demers, Thiffault, and General Manager Serge Savard were re-assigned or fired in a massive, poorly-timed, hockey operations reboot. Team President Ronald Corey relied on the past to guide the present team towards future success. Réjean Houle was named the new General Manager, Mario Tremblay the new head coach, and Canadiens’ legend Yvan Cournoyer the new assistant coach. None of them had any previous experience in their roles.

Although Tremblay retained Shutt and Laperrière on his bench, Cournoyer struggled to develop a rapport with the players, and they often spoke negatively about him to the media. So bad was the situation around Cournoyer, that he began doing scouting trips over coaching less than a year into his nomination.

Meanwhile, Shutt struggled to pull the team’s power play out of the basement.

At the conclusion of the 1996-97 season, Tremblay resigned as head coach, leaving the fate of his assistants in the hands of newcomer head coach Alain Vigneault.

Interesting.   Dark days indeed.

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14 minutes ago, Regis22 said:

I remember Corey saying how many Stanley Cups each player won ; and how they all know what it takes to win because of the amount of Cups they had between them -  lol - but they couldnt coach at all 

Yes - many times the best coaches are not the best players. Gretzky and Orr could not coach I believe because their talent came with natural ability and they couldn’t understand or communicate to players who didn’t possess some of their natural talents 

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1 hour ago, ramcharger440 said:

Higgins was not that bad we had Ryder there too when he first started out. I think they were part of the horrible development our team had at that time. Gainey was not bad and neither was Gauthier but they did nothing to improve the team from a drafting and development standpoint or at least nothing that stuck!

I think you're thinking of Chris Higgins?  (Who was drafted during the Andre Savard days I believe).  Im talking about Matt Higgins (drafted in the top 20 by Houle). And that year there were a few prominent Quebec born talent that we passed on (making it worse) like Briere ;) 

 

1 hour ago, habsisme said:

I liked Gainey, second best GM we've had since 93 (I think MB was our best). But that Gomez trade was just sbaolutely ridiculous. We were doing them a favor taking on that contract and we gave a bunch, including McDonagh for the right to do it. 

I know what you're saying and Im not saying it was a good trade but I think it was a complete shift in thinking about the roster.  Again, big picture, and i think if Gainey had stuck around we would have continued to improve the whole roster but we'll never know. 

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7 minutes ago, maas_art said:

I think you're thinking of Chris Higgins?  (Who was drafted during the Andre Savard days I believe).  Im talking about Matt Higgins (drafted in the top 20 by Houle). And that year there were a few prominent Quebec born talent that we passed on (making it worse) like Briere ;) 

 

I know what you're saying and Im not saying it was a good trade but I think it was a complete shift in thinking about the roster.  Again, big picture, and i think if Gainey had stuck around we would have continued to improve the whole roster but we'll never know. 

Yes Chris Higgins! I forgot about Matt Higgins completely.

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I thought Gainey did a reasonable job as GM. Why?

- he inherited a bad team and made it better

- we had several strong drafts under Gainey. Some first round hits like Price, Pacioretty, and McDonagh, but also later round gems like Subban, Kostitsyn, Grabovksi, Streit, and Halak.

- We can fault him all we want for trading McDonagh for Gomez (and I usually hate trading blue chip prospects for older players) but the counter-point is that bringing in Gomez also likely helped us land Gionta and Cammalleri. If we hadn't have traded for Gomez, I doubt Gionta comes here. And without Gionta and Gomez, unclear if Cammalleri comes here. So it could be argued that he flipped McDonagh but used that to acquire his whole first line.

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