BigTed3 Posted February 23 Report Share Posted February 23 21 hours ago, Graeme-1 said: Not to look too much at the past, but was risk-aversion really MB's main issue? I'd give that criticism more for someone like Cheveldayoff. Compared to many of his peers (granted a low bar compared to previous decades in the NHL or other sports), MB was a fairly active trader, including the blockbuster Weber and Drouin trades (say what you want about those trades, they weren't risk-averse), and willing to sign UFAs while letting others walk (similarly, say what you want about letting Danault and KK go, it wasn't the risk-averse move). Bergevin wasn't afraid to make changes. But did he ever gamble anything major? Subban for Weber was a lateral move to trade one top-pairing D for another. Sergachev for Drouin was one young blue chipper for a slightly more experienced long-term younger player. Letting Danault and JK was more about saving money. When did MB ever do what Tampa or St. Louis did and swing for the fences by going out to add a McDonagh or an O'Reilly and a Schenn to try and make a Cup run? When did he ever clean house on veterans to build around a specific Cup window the way the Rangers or Avs or Sens have done? Sure, Bergevin tinkered one player for another, but he never really went all0in on any of his big picture plans. He never chose to sacrifice significant futures to make us a top 5 contender right away but he also didn't want to give up his star aging vets to give us a better window down the line. His goal was always to be good enough to challenge for the playoffs, but he never wanted to be blamed for gambling on a Cup window. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habsisme Posted February 23 Report Share Posted February 23 3 minutes ago, BigTed3 said: Bergevin wasn't afraid to make changes. But did he ever gamble anything major? Subban for Weber was a lateral move to trade one top-pairing D for another. Sergachev for Drouin was one young blue chipper for a slightly more experienced long-term younger player. Letting Danault and JK was more about saving money. When did MB ever do what Tampa or St. Louis did and swing for the fences by going out to add a McDonagh or an O'Reilly and a Schenn to try and make a Cup run? When did he ever clean house on veterans to build around a specific Cup window the way the Rangers or Avs or Sens have done? Sure, Bergevin tinkered one player for another, but he never really went all0in on any of his big picture plans. He never chose to sacrifice significant futures to make us a top 5 contender right away but he also didn't want to give up his star aging vets to give us a better window down the line. His goal was always to be good enough to challenge for the playoffs, but he never wanted to be blamed for gambling on a Cup window. I think it's more that he really didn't believe in the very concept of rebuilding and windows and so he tried to build the best team every year without selling the farm. I always defended MB but I always had an issue with this as I think you need to think in terms of windows to win in this league Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTed3 Posted February 23 Report Share Posted February 23 4 minutes ago, habsisme said: I think it's more that he really didn't believe in the very concept of rebuilding and windows and so he tried to build the best team every year without selling the farm. I always defended MB but I always had an issue with this as I think you need to think in terms of windows to win in this league Right. No one celebrates being the 8th seed every year. Either you won a Cup or you didn't. I'd rather be downright awful for 5 years and win 2 Cups in the next 3 seasons than finish 6th to 10th in my conference for all 8 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claremont Posted February 23 Report Share Posted February 23 10 hours ago, BigTed3 said: Right. No one celebrates being the 8th seed every year. Either you won a Cup or you didn't. I'd rather be downright awful for 5 years and win 2 Cups in the next 3 seasons than finish 6th to 10th in my conference for all 8 years. Correction - Leaf fans celebrate being 8th seed, 6th or better on the conference every year - practically the best regular season team I’ve ever seen! Right now, I just want to see a team whose trajectory arrow will point upwards for the next 5 years, vs. a flat line treadmill which is what we have come out of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_T_L Posted February 23 Author Report Share Posted February 23 1 hour ago, claremont said: Correction - Leaf fans celebrate being 8th seed, 6th or better on the conference every year - practically the best regular season team I’ve ever seen! Right now, I just want to see a team whose trajectory arrow will point upwards for the next 5 years, vs. a flat line treadmill which is what we have come out of. Correction - Leaf fans celebrate winning the pre season race. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
electron58 Posted February 24 Report Share Posted February 24 27. Philadelphia 50 15 25 10 40 28. Buffalo 51 16 27 8 40 29. New Jersey 50 17 28 5 39 30. Seattle 52 16 32 4 36 31. Montreal 51 11 33 7 31 32. Arizona 50 13 33 4 30 Finally made it out of the dungeon! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habsisme Posted February 24 Report Share Posted February 24 5 minutes ago, electron58 said: 27. Philadelphia 50 15 25 10 40 28. Buffalo 51 16 27 8 40 29. New Jersey 50 17 28 5 39 30. Seattle 52 16 32 4 36 31. Montreal 51 11 33 7 31 32. Arizona 50 13 33 4 30 Finally made it out of the dungeon! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kinot-2 Posted February 24 Report Share Posted February 24 7 minutes ago, habsisme said: Aren't you happy that the Habs are winning? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs1952 Posted February 24 Report Share Posted February 24 1 hour ago, kinot-2 said: Aren't you happy that the Habs are winning? Oh, we're happy, but boy are we gonna be pissed if the Habs go on a tear and finish with the 8th overall pick in the draft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kinot-2 Posted February 24 Report Share Posted February 24 18 minutes ago, habs1952 said: Oh, we're happy, but boy are we gonna be pissed if the Habs go on a tear and finish with the 8th overall pick in the draft. I would rather see our Habs winng than losing. Don't care about our draft position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptWelly Posted February 24 Report Share Posted February 24 7 hours ago, kinot-2 said: I would rather see our Habs winng than losing. Don't care about our draft position. I agree !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manatee-X Posted February 24 Report Share Posted February 24 Even if we're at the absolute bottom, my understanding is that it's less than 50/50 odds that we land the first pick. In what is supposed to be a pretty uneventful draft, at that. Personally I like seeing the team playing with some swagger (as the coach would put it). Obviously getting 8th overall would be pretty bad from a draft perspective, but that would also mean that we went on just an absolute tear to end the season. That kind of confidence going into later seasons can also be helpful. And it wouldn't even mean that we're not rebuilding. Honestly do we think that getting this one high draft pick is going to completely fix this franchise? If not (and I don't) then the rebuild/selling/etc. can continue whether we have a bit of a winning streak or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maas_art Posted February 24 Report Share Posted February 24 1 hour ago, Manatee-X said: Even if we're at the absolute bottom, my understanding is that it's less than 50/50 odds that we land the first pick. In what is supposed to be a pretty uneventful draft, at that. Personally I like seeing the team playing with some swagger (as the coach would put it). Obviously getting 8th overall would be pretty bad from a draft perspective, but that would also mean that we went on just an absolute tear to end the season. That kind of confidence going into later seasons can also be helpful. And it wouldn't even mean that we're not rebuilding. Honestly do we think that getting this one high draft pick is going to completely fix this franchise? If not (and I don't) then the rebuild/selling/etc. can continue whether we have a bit of a winning streak or not. While its theoretically possible for us to end up with like 10th (or worse,) more than likely we finish with a bottom 5 pick and i think thats probably enough this draft. Im not convinced Wright is going to be the best player from this draft (probably the safest) so im not sure that there's any huge disadvantage to finishing with the #2-5 pick tbh. I dont even think its a lock Wright goes first. You also have to think at some point we'll come back down to earth. Players continue to get hurt (2 last night) and some vets will be traded soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disillusioned1 Posted February 24 Report Share Posted February 24 10 hours ago, kinot-2 said: I would rather see our Habs winng than losing. Don't care about our draft position. When we lose the draft lottery, we all know who to blame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habsisme Posted February 24 Report Share Posted February 24 9 minutes ago, Disillusioned1 said: When we lose the draft lottery, we all know who to blame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptWelly Posted February 24 Report Share Posted February 24 2 hours ago, habsisme said: I sincerely doubt that we'll win the lottery. We already have a very strong fan base. Look how bad Detroit did a couple of years ago and got completely ripped off. They also have a strong fan base. They're keeping Arizona afloat they will Seattle will be #1 Arizona #2 then 2023 Arizona #1 Seattle #2. Montreal "might" get 3rd probably 4-5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramcharger440 Posted February 24 Report Share Posted February 24 We will never win the lottery it will be Arizona this year Bettman has decreed it! lol! it is his favorite team or they pictures of him or something! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maas_art Posted February 24 Report Share Posted February 24 8 hours ago, Disillusioned1 said: When we lose the draft lottery, we all know who to blame. In fairness, we were always going to blame kinot if we lost it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kinot-2 Posted February 24 Report Share Posted February 24 15 minutes ago, maas_art said: In fairness, we were always going to blame kinot if we lost it. So, by extension, you will blame me for the wins that we accumulate? Is that it? Asking for Kinot-3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maas_art Posted February 25 Report Share Posted February 25 13 minutes ago, kinot-2 said: So, by extension, you will blame me for the wins that we accumulate? Is that it? Asking for Kinot-3. Absolutely. That and the weather. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HARBORSPORT Posted February 25 Report Share Posted February 25 21 hours ago, kinot-2 said: I would rather see our Habs winng than losing. Don't care about our draft position. THIS ^^..........................I know some guys like to get all wrapped up in the whole "draft" idea...but for me, I've spent too many years seeing the top picks disappear off the face of the earth after draft week. I'd rather see the team winning / playing well/ having fun out there than wringing their hands waiting for a draft pick to bail them out.....it rarely happens that way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kinot-2 Posted February 25 Report Share Posted February 25 1 minute ago, HARBORSPORT said: THIS ^^..........................I know some guys like to get all wrapped up in the whole "draft" idea...but for me, I've spent too many years seeing the top picks disappear off the face of the earth after draft week. I'd rather see the team winning / playing well/ having fun out there than wringing their hands waiting for a draft pick to bail them out.....it rarely happens that way And alot of tose people are alot younger than me. I prolly don't have 10 years to wait for a contending team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claremont Posted February 25 Report Share Posted February 25 1 minute ago, kinot-2 said: And alot of tose people are alot younger than me. I prolly don't have 10 years to wait for a contending team. You are the master of the understatement- “A lot younger” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kinot-2 Posted February 25 Report Share Posted February 25 16 minutes ago, claremont said: You are the master of the understatement- “A lot younger” Ya, thanks for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regis22 Posted February 25 Report Share Posted February 25 42 minutes ago, HARBORSPORT said: THIS ^^..........................I know some guys like to get all wrapped up in the whole "draft" idea...but for me, I've spent too many years seeing the top picks disappear off the face of the earth after draft week. I'd rather see the team winning / playing well/ having fun out there than wringing their hands waiting for a draft pick to bail them out.....it rarely happens that way Exactly . There seems to be some belief that the more 1st round draft picks the better . That there's this guarantee a 1st rounder is going to crack the line up and be a star . Im still waiting for Montreal's to do it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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