2021-22 State of the Habs

[RCAF48]

21 hours ago, kinot-2 said:

I would rather see our Habs winng than losing. Don't care about our draft position. 

 

I agree.......dreaming of a possible team for a fantasy run 5 years in the future may be entertaining for youngsters but for mature men of the world the present experience matters more.  

[kinot-2]

2 minutes ago, RCAF48 said:

I agree.......dreaming of a possible team for a fantasy run 5 years in the future may be entertaining for youngsters but for mature men of the world the present experience matters more.  

^^^^^ This. 

[Graeme-1]

On 2/22/2022 at 6:31 PM, BigTed3 said:

Bergevin wasn't afraid to make changes. But did he ever gamble anything major? Subban for Weber was a lateral move to trade one top-pairing D for another. Sergachev for Drouin was one young blue chipper for a slightly more experienced long-term younger player. Letting Danault and JK was more about saving money. When did MB ever do what Tampa or St. Louis did and swing for the fences by going out to add a McDonagh or an O'Reilly and a Schenn to try and make a Cup run? When did he ever clean house on veterans to build around a specific Cup window the way the Rangers or Avs or Sens have done? Sure, Bergevin tinkered one player for another, but he never really went all0in on any of his big picture plans. He never chose to sacrifice significant futures to make us a top 5 contender right away but he also didn't want to give up his star aging vets to give us a better window down the line. His goal was always to be good enough to challenge for the playoffs, but he never wanted to be blamed for gambling on a Cup window.

I'd argue trading your top defenseman and top prospect (neither of which were cases where his hand was forced) were major, regardless of the return. Similarly, letting JK and Danault go was about money, but if you're a GM just looking to fly under the radar and make the playoffs it likely would be better to keep them (no risk of seeing them excel with another team) and avoid some of the off-season signings/trades to find the money. 

I totally agree with his lack of vision in building the team, I just think the motivation was different: I truly believe MB thought he was building a cup contender by locking up Price, signing a physical stay-at-home defense, and a bunch of depth forwards, and then hoped he could find a way to fill out the top six (in fact, wasn't the whole argument that the team was built for a playoff run, which doesn't make sense if your goal is just to sneak into the playoffs?). I suppose it's always possible to go more "all in", but honestly I'm not sure there was any point during his tenure when it made sense to do that, the team was simply never a player or two away from being legitimate contenders. 

Either way, I feel much better with the current management group. Plus, it's very hard for a long-time GM without a cup-ring to admit it's time to rebuild since it means admitting their previous rebuild was unsuccessful, so good to have fresh faces in here now.

 

 

[Graeme-1]

3 hours ago, HARBORSPORT said:

THIS ^^..........................I know some guys like to get all wrapped up in the whole "draft" idea...but for me, I've spent too many years seeing the top picks disappear off the face of the earth after draft week. I'd rather see the team winning / playing well/ having fun out there than wringing their hands waiting for a draft pick to bail them out.....it rarely happens that way

The draft is important, but it shouldn't be the only thing we focus on. Especially since between the draft lottery and the lack of generational talent in this draft, the difference between finishing say 30th and 32nd is pretty minimal. 

I think it was Arpon Basu who pointed out that our management may have quietly been genius with the timing of the coaching change: they waited until the team was in enough of a hole that they're basically guaranteed a top-five pick before making the change that hopefully lets the team gain some confidence (and let trade-targets regain some value) before the end of the season.

The chances of finishing below 30th are pretty minuscule: short of an epic collapse of someone above us, the team would probably need to play significantly over .500 hockey. While it's easy to imagine this based on recent play, the team is almost certainly going to come back down to earth, it simply has too many holes, and things will probably get worse by the trade deadline.

Hoping for your team to lose sucks, I'm glad we're in a spot where we can cheer for the team but also be confident we'll get a high draft pick.

10 hours ago, ramcharger440 said:

We will never win the lottery it will be Arizona this year Bettman has decreed it! lol! it is his favorite team or they pictures of him or something!

McDavid to Edmonton should have ended all draft conspiracy talk ...

[KRH]

Lafreniere to the Rangers seemed fishy to me.

[ramcharger440]

7 hours ago, Graeme-1 said:

The draft is important, but it shouldn't be the only thing we focus on. Especially since between the draft lottery and the lack of generational talent in this draft, the difference between finishing say 30th and 32nd is pretty minimal. 

I think it was Arpon Basu who pointed out that our management may have quietly been genius with the timing of the coaching change: they waited until the team was in enough of a hole that they're basically guaranteed a top-five pick before making the change that hopefully lets the team gain some confidence (and let trade-targets regain some value) before the end of the season.

The chances of finishing below 30th are pretty minuscule: short of an epic collapse of someone above us, the team would probably need to play significantly over .500 hockey. While it's easy to imagine this based on recent play, the team is almost certainly going to come back down to earth, it simply has too many holes, and things will probably get worse by the trade deadline.

Hoping for your team to lose sucks, I'm glad we're in a spot where we can cheer for the team but also be confident we'll get a high draft pick.

McDavid to Edmonton should have ended all draft conspiracy talk ...

It will never end until the little guy is gone.

[electron58]

Top European, College and Junior free agents
Corey Pronman of The Athletic: Ranking that top European, College and Junior free agents.

Projected NHL Players

1. Andrei Kuzmenko – LW – SKA KHL
2. Ben Meyers – C –Minnesota Big Ten

A chance to play in the NHL

3. Jake Livingstone – RHD – Minnesota State NCHA
4. Bobby Trivigno – LW –UMass HE
5 Sergei Tolchinsky-LW-Avangard  KHL
6. Niko Ojamaki – RW – Podolsk  KHL
7. Jordan Fransca – C – Kingston OHL
8. Max Veronneau-RW – Leksands SHL
9. Bennett MacArthur – LW – Acadie-Bathurst QMJHL
10. Brandon Bussi-G-W. Mich. NCHC
11. Riese Gaber-RW-N. Dakota NCHC
12. Daniil Vovchenko-LW-Severstal KHL
13. Taylor Gauthier-G-Portland WHL
14. Strauss Mann – G – Skelleftea SHL
15. Ethen Frank-RW-W. Michigan NCHC
16. Marc McLaughlin – C – Western Michigan HE
17. Parker Ford-C-Providence HE

Players who could also be signed this offseason

Trenton Bliss-C-Michigan Tech WCHA
Corey Andonovski-RW-Princeton ECAC
Jacob Bengtsson – LHD – Lake Supperior State WCHA
Tye Kartye – C – Sault Ste. Marie OHL
Henrik Rybinski – C – Seattle WHL
Nathan Staios – LHD – Hamilton OHL

Any diamonds in the rough,  here? Be nice to be one of those teams and sign a freebie. 

[CaptWelly]

16 hours ago, Graeme-1 said:

The draft is important, but it shouldn't be the only thing we focus on. Especially since between the draft lottery and the lack of generational talent in this draft, the difference between finishing say 30th and 32nd is pretty minimal. 

I think it was Arpon Basu who pointed out that our management may have quietly been genius with the timing of the coaching change: they waited until the team was in enough of a hole that they're basically guaranteed a top-five pick before making the change that hopefully lets the team gain some confidence (and let trade-targets regain some value) before the end of the season.

The chances of finishing below 30th are pretty minuscule: short of an epic collapse of someone above us, the team would probably need to play significantly over .500 hockey. While it's easy to imagine this based on recent play, the team is almost certainly going to come back down to earth, it simply has too many holes, and things will probably get worse by the trade deadline.

Hoping for your team to lose sucks, I'm glad we're in a spot where we can cheer for the team but also be confident we'll get a high draft pick.

McDavid to Edmonton should have ended all draft conspiracy talk ...

Actually, there was a lot of conspiracy talk when Edmonton did win that draft. As Edmonton had mysteriously won so many previous drafts. 

[claremont]

On 2/24/2022 at 10:15 PM, Regis22 said:

Exactly .  There seems to be some belief that the more 1st round draft picks the better .  That there's this guarantee a 1st rounder is going to crack the line up and  be a  star .

Im still waiting for Montreal's  to do it 

Well the old method of buying talent -Cammalleri,  Radulov (although he was exciting), Alzner, Chiarot, Edmundson, Perry, Toffoli, Savard, Perreault, Hoffman, Paquette, hasn’t exactly worked. 
However, I do hear you - the draft build takes patience, evaluation skill, and development practices. I don’t like to wait either. 

[CaptWelly]

2 hours ago, claremont said:

Well the old method of buying talent -Cammalleri,  Radulov (although he was exciting), Alzner, Chiarot, Edmundson, Perry, Toffoli, Savard, Perreault, Hoffman, Paquette, hasn’t exactly worked. 
However, I do hear you - the draft build takes patience, evaluation skill, and development practices. I don’t like to wait either. 

Evaluation is true to a point. There have been a lot of drafted players that looking back everyone is wondering how this player or that player was drafted ahead of or behind XY player. There are a very few "sure" things. Then you still need the luck to have that draft position. With hockey drafting players at 18 from across the globe is a little bit of a crap shoot. Yes, you have better odds but having top draft choices don't always make you better. If it did than Buffalo and Arizona would have been contenders a long time ago. 

[Regis22]

here ya go

https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/canadiens-expected-to-hire-skills-coach-adam-nicholas/

Habs making a big move in player development. Expect that at some point over the next week they’ll announce they’re hiring skills guru Adam Nicholas, who currently works with the Leafs and has worked with several high-profile NHLers. Sources say this is a great get for MTL

 

 

 

[Graeme-1]

On 2/25/2022 at 3:00 PM, CaptWelly said:

Actually, there was a lot of conspiracy talk when Edmonton did win that draft. As Edmonton had mysteriously won so many previous drafts. 

Lol I never heard any of those, Bettman being in the pocket of a small Canadian market is a new one to me

[H_T_L]

So,,,, will Chiarot be boarding the plane with the Habs on this road trip or will he be boarding a different plane to his new team?? 

[CaptWelly]

14 hours ago, Graeme-1 said:

Lol I never heard any of those, Bettman being in the pocket of a small Canadian market is a new one to me

It sure seemed the league was trying to prop up Edmonton for quite a while how many #1 picks can you get in a short time frame? I guess it seemed that way if you didn't live in Canada at the time. Buffalo had the worst record when somehow Edmonton won the McDavid lottery after winning how many before that? If any one single team in the US had gotten that many #1 overall picks Canadians would have been screaming! So, there was a lot of speculation in other areas when that was going on. 

[Regis22]

Lol

and the election  was stolen from one particular Horrible human 

[habsisme]

1 hour ago, CaptWelly said:

It sure seemed the league was trying to prop up Edmonton for quite a while how many #1 picks can you get in a short time frame? I guess it seemed that way if you didn't live in Canada at the time. Buffalo had the worst record when somehow Edmonton won the McDavid lottery after winning how many before that? If any one single team in the US had gotten that many #1 overall picks Canadians would have been screaming! So, there was a lot of speculation in other areas when that was going on. 

yeah but with people today, everything is a conspircy. Any intelligent person could see that there would be no bennefit to let Edmonton get picks. If it had gone to a big market, especially in the US, I could at least have the thought, but over Edmonton? 

This isn't hockey but there are 2 rules to debunk most conspiracy theories. First, who bennefits? If there is no obvious bennefit to the people in power than nothing happened. Second, how many people who have to know the truth and lie for the conspiracy to work? If its too many, than nothing happened. I'll add a third one for this specific circumstance, I don't think the league would risk the integrity of the sport to get players in to the teams they want, it just doesn't matter that much and not worth the risk

[ramcharger440]

3 hours ago, habsisme said:

yeah but with people today, everything is a conspircy. Any intelligent person could see that there would be no bennefit to let Edmonton get picks. If it had gone to a big market, especially in the US, I could at least have the thought, but over Edmonton? 

This isn't hockey but there are 2 rules to debunk most conspiracy theories. First, who bennefits? If there is no obvious bennefit to the people in power than nothing happened. Second, how many people who have to know the truth and lie for the conspiracy to work? If its too many, than nothing happened. I'll add a third one for this specific circumstance, I don't think the league would risk the integrity of the sport to get players in to the teams they want, it just doesn't matter that much and not worth the risk

The integrity of the sport? have you watched many games lately? How many times do the refs make bad calls then call make up calls then get caught on an open mike talking about it! Or the way player safety dishes out suspensions! or not. The word Integrity and the NHL  don't go together all that much anymore! Any intelligent person can see that. Honestly though when it comes to the draft I don't think it is fixed but when it comes to Arizona I mean come on! there are several cities that could take that team right now and make money right away! so explain to me why the little guy keeps beating that dead horse! the whole league is supporting the Coyote's it makes no sense.

[habsisme]

5 minutes ago, ramcharger440 said:

The integrity of the sport? have you watched many games lately? How many times do the refs make bad calls then call make up calls then get caught on an open mike talking about it! Or the way player safety dishes out suspensions! or not. The word Integrity and the NHL  don't go together all that much anymore! Any intelligent person can see that. Honestly though when it comes to the draft I don't think it is fixed but when it comes to Arizona I mean come on! there are several cities that could take that team right now and make money right away! so explain to me why the little guy keeps beating that dead horse! the whole league is supporting the Coyote's it makes no sense.

There's a big difference between cheating and poor officiating

All you have to do is ask and he'll tell you, they want the phoenix market because its one of the biggest tv markets in the US. Part of their strategy to getting US tv money is to have teams in big US markets. Another team in Canada doesn't really help TV dollars too much. It's a perfectly reasonable and sensible business position but it sucks when you have cities ready to fill a building losing out to cities that can't fill one. But see, yet again, no conspiracy, very simple and easy to explain.  

[AH64]

4 hours ago, Regis22 said:

Lol

and the election  was stolen from one particular Horrible human 

ya right 60% or more of americans think it was stolen. love how this forum always finds a way to bring in politics. 

[MuddyWaterMoose]

Anyway...

Despite the fact that the team has won 5 in a row, had they lost some of those, this team is still just fun to watch again, They are playing loose and inspired hockey. 

[CaptWelly]

3 hours ago, AH64 said:

ya right 60% or more of americans think it was stolen. love how this forum always finds a way to bring in politics. 

I think you meant 60% or more Americans voted for Biden that's why Trump (Putins boy) Lost by 10,000,000 votes!!! 

[ramcharger440]

5 hours ago, habsisme said:

There's a big difference between cheating and poor officiating

All you have to do is ask and he'll tell you, they want the phoenix market because its one of the biggest tv markets in the US. Part of their strategy to getting US tv money is to have teams in big US markets. Another team in Canada doesn't really help TV dollars too much. It's a perfectly reasonable and sensible business position but it sucks when you have cities ready to fill a building losing out to cities that can't fill one. But see, yet again, no conspiracy, very simple and easy to explain.  

Well that's nice, so we don't have to keep them afloat anymore with all the tv bucks they are bringing in? The Hab's the Leaf's and the other teams that are making money can turn the support tap off. Good! odd plan but whatever the huge tv money from Arizona must be enough to keep them there.

[BigTed3]

Jeff Petry today stating that with MSL, players can actually look forward to coming to the rink and that he's put the joy back into the game. Says he's the type of coach he'd like to play for for a long time... doesn't mean Petry isn't open to a trade to the US, but does mean he's probably turned a corner in his willingness to stay here. You can clearly see players like Petry, Caufield, Hoffman, Anderson, Romanov, Kulak, Montembeault and Evans having built confidence with MSL here. There's less fear of making mistakes. I'd still like to see more from Gallagher. I'd still like to see what players such as Drouin, Edmundson, Savard, and Dvorak will do when back from injury. And I'd like to see Poehling given more of a chance than Dauphin (who is becoming the new Danault/Desharnais/Moen and being played well above what he's shown he can do). But past that, this is a more confident, relaxed group.

Right now, though, the state of the Habs is a bit in flux. On the one hand, they're not built to challenge for a Cup in the next two years. On the other hand, we've seen what having a coach with his head on straight can do. Still a lot of work to do on special teams. But overall it's a positive. The question thus becomes, what do Hughes and Gorton see as their window to win? Is it in 2 years or is it in 4-5 years? If they think they need next year to build up the line-up but can be competitive to win the division and make a playoff run in 2023-24, then maybe you keep a Petry or a Gallagher or an Edmundson or a Price around. If you don't, then you're still planning to move on from them, albeit it could be in the off-season or next year and not necessarily right now. A lot probably hinges on Price's health.

From my view, I still see them shopping Chiarot and Kulak and Perreault this year. I think they'll give the returning injured players a chance to see how they gel in the new system, but if they don't fit, I think the team could look to move any of Drouin, Dvorak, Edmundson, Savard, and Allen, if not at the deadline then in the off-season. I think Hughes will be finding out from Lehkone what he wants on his next contract, and if the ask is in the Armia/Byron range, I think he'll be traded too. The fact the Habs were inquiring about Samsonov tells me they don't have confidence Price will be able to return to a full-time starter's role if at all and it tells me they don't see themselves loading up next year behind Jake Allen (in fact it tells me he's going to be shopped in a trade this year or next before his contract runs out). I think the Habs don't see Montembeault as a starter, but they could well see him as their future back-up behind a new starter if Price can't resume playing. If Samsonov isn't available, I wouldn't be surprised to see them reach out to NY about Alexandar Georgiev, whom Gorton signed for the Rangers.

So still a lot of balls up in the air here. FWIW, I'll also throw out that I think the team will make an offer to Letang and if they can't get Letang then they'll look at Subban, Risotolainen, or Klingberg. The organizational depth at RHD is so poor that I don't see them going into next season with Savard and Brook and maybe Petry and nothing else. Up front, I think they're going to inquire about Forsberg, Hertl, Trocheck, and/or Niederreiter. In other words, I think they're going to try and add to their core and put in an upgrade who can be here for 4-5 years and give support to Suzuki, either as a second true top 6 center or as a top 6 winger who can play with him. If you can do something like trade Drouin for a top 4 RHD and then turn right around and sign Forsberg, you're instantly better at both LW and RHD. Or if you can trade Gallagher and use that money to sign a Hertl or Trocheck, you've found an answer to your center woes for the next few years. Not to say those players will want to come here, but MSL being in place means we might be able to finally attract top-end skill players who want to play for a coach who allows skill to flourish.

[seth505]

16 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

Jeff Petry today stating that with MSL, players can actually look forward to coming to the rink and that he's put the joy back into the game. Says he's the type of coach he'd like to play for for a long time... doesn't mean Petry isn't open to a trade to the US, but does mean he's probably turned a corner in his willingness to stay here. You can clearly see players like Petry, Caufield, Hoffman, Anderson, Romanov, Kulak, Montembeault and Evans having built confidence with MSL here. There's less fear of making mistakes. I'd still like to see more from Gallagher. I'd still like to see what players such as Drouin, Edmundson, Savard, and Dvorak will do when back from injury. And I'd like to see Poehling given more of a chance than Dauphin (who is becoming the new Danault/Desharnais/Moen and being played well above what he's shown he can do). But past that, this is a more confident, relaxed group.

Right now, though, the state of the Habs is a bit in flux. On the one hand, they're not built to challenge for a Cup in the next two years. On the other hand, we've seen what having a coach with his head on straight can do. Still a lot of work to do on special teams. But overall it's a positive. The question thus becomes, what do Hughes and Gorton see as their window to win? Is it in 2 years or is it in 4-5 years? If they think they need next year to build up the line-up but can be competitive to win the division and make a playoff run in 2023-24, then maybe you keep a Petry or a Gallagher or an Edmundson or a Price around. If you don't, then you're still planning to move on from them, albeit it could be in the off-season or next year and not necessarily right now. A lot probably hinges on Price's health.

From my view, I still see them shopping Chiarot and Kulak and Perreault this year. I think they'll give the returning injured players a chance to see how they gel in the new system, but if they don't fit, I think the team could look to move any of Drouin, Dvorak, Edmundson, Savard, and Allen, if not at the deadline then in the off-season. I think Hughes will be finding out from Lehkone what he wants on his next contract, and if the ask is in the Armia/Byron range, I think he'll be traded too. The fact the Habs were inquiring about Samsonov tells me they don't have confidence Price will be able to return to a full-time starter's role if at all and it tells me they don't see themselves loading up next year behind Jake Allen (in fact it tells me he's going to be shopped in a trade this year or next before his contract runs out). I think the Habs don't see Montembeault as a starter, but they could well see him as their future back-up behind a new starter if Price can't resume playing. If Samsonov isn't available, I wouldn't be surprised to see them reach out to NY about Alexandar Georgiev, whom Gorton signed for the Rangers.

So still a lot of balls up in the air here. FWIW, I'll also throw out that I think the team will make an offer to Letang and if they can't get Letang then they'll look at Subban, Risotolainen, or Klingberg. The organizational depth at RHD is so poor that I don't see them going into next season with Savard and Brook and maybe Petry and nothing else. Up front, I think they're going to inquire about Forsberg, Hertl, Trocheck, and/or Niederreiter. In other words, I think they're going to try and add to their core and put in an upgrade who can be here for 4-5 years and give support to Suzuki, either as a second true top 6 center or as a top 6 winger who can play with him. If you can do something like trade Drouin for a top 4 RHD and then turn right around and sign Forsberg, you're instantly better at both LW and RHD. Or if you can trade Gallagher and use that money to sign a Hertl or Trocheck, you've found an answer to your center woes for the next few years. Not to say those players will want to come here, but MSL being in place means we might be able to finally attract top-end skill players who want to play for a coach who allows skill to flourish.

Really hope this brings back the Petry from last year haha.  That said, it is hard for me to be ok with trading certain players. Players like Leks and Romanov.  Romanov is always so happy looking and first to his teammate when they score, character like that is fun to build off of.

[Regis22]

46 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

 

So still a lot of balls up in the air here. FWIW, I'll also throw out that I think the team will make an offer to Letang and if they can't get Letang then they'll look at Subban, Risotolainen, or Klingberg. 

Slew foot subban 

https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/news/nhl-pk-subban-roasted-blackhawks-brandon-hagel-trip-just-dirty-play-220149545.html

Hagel on PK Subban's trip: "There's a reason the guy slew-foots everyone and gets these dirty fines... I have a clear-cut breakaway. What are going to do? It's just a dirty play. It is what it is. He can do what he wants but it's not going to get him very liked around the league"