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2021-22 State of the Habs


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56 minutes ago, habsisme said:

Makes a lot of sense. I think Barron has earned an opportunity at this point and he's a righty. Probably makes more sense to let Guhle develop a year in the AHL. There will be injuries though, Guhle will play a handful of NHL games too just to give him a taste

Oh I agree. Guhle will definitely get games next year. He may well make the team out of camp. I'm just not sure how all the pieces the Habs have fit together. If you include all of Romanov, Harris, Guhle, and Barron, so be it, but then let's call it what it is: that's a re-build. If you're not including all of them, then which guy is most likely to play in the AHL. It's not Romanov and I don't think it's Harris. I'm actually less sure Barron is ready to be a regular either, so I think there's still a battle for Guhle to win there, but I have a hard time seeing one of them spending the season a a 7th D man. You win your spot in the starting 6 or you get your minutes in the AHL.

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5 hours ago, habsisme said:

seems like but I don't get why they would play Schueneman and Wideman over him at the point in the season

 

3 hours ago, jennifer_rocket said:

Agreed. Thought it was weird to see Savard, Schueneman, and Wideman in the lineup over him.

Actually, i think it makes sense - when you look at MSL's moves lately, a lot of them are not "long term" lines he's playing guys up and down the lineup so that we can truly evaluate them.  Do we resign them? do we want to keep them or trade them?  Is a guy like Rem Pitlick a centre or a winger? what line etc etc.

So i think with Harris they probably saw something they want him to work on & maybe thats easier outside of an actual game - but more importantly, we know he's part of the long term plan.   HuGo, MSL, the scouts, the development guys - they all need to look at guys like Wideman & schueneman & say "do we want them back?" and "where do they fit next year"  and they only have a handful of games left to base this decision on.  Even savard, who is obviously still under contract - the question is: where does he fit? can he be useful or do we need to try to trade him (and take back a bad contract) or even buy him out (very unlikely)

My 2¢

 

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6 minutes ago, maas_art said:

 

Actually, i think it makes sense - when you look at MSL's moves lately, a lot of them are not "long term" lines he's playing guys up and down the lineup so that we can truly evaluate them.  Do we resign them? do we want to keep them or trade them?  Is a guy like Rem Pitlick a centre or a winger? what line etc etc.

So i think with Harris they probably saw something they want him to work on & maybe thats easier outside of an actual game - but more importantly, we know he's part of the long term plan.   HuGo, MSL, the scouts, the development guys - they all need to look at guys like Wideman & schueneman & say "do we want them back?" and "where do they fit next year"  and they only have a handful of games left to base this decision on.  Even savard, who is obviously still under contract - the question is: where does he fit? can he be useful or do we need to try to trade him (and take back a bad contract) or even buy him out (very unlikely)

My 2¢

 

I don't now, I don't think Harris has done anything to gaurantee him a spot next year. Wideman and Schueneman are both 6-7 defenseman. You know what you have with them and what they are and really I don't see any reason to bring either of them back. I feel like this new regime is getting credit for a rebuild its not actually doing. For me the positive about moving on from MB was at least now we will actually rebuild... but I don't think that's what's happening at all

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33 minutes ago, habsisme said:

 I feel like this new regime is getting credit for a rebuild its not actually doing. For me the positive about moving on from MB was at least now we will actually rebuild... but I don't think that's what's happening at all

Give them a chance . The  GM, coach changes were made in the middle of the season . They need to evaluate the players and then have the summer to decide what they want to do 

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16 hours ago, habsisme said:

I don't now, I don't think Harris has done anything to gaurantee him a spot next year. Wideman and Schueneman are both 6-7 defenseman. You know what you have with them and what they are and really I don't see any reason to bring either of them back. I feel like this new regime is getting credit for a rebuild its not actually doing. For me the positive about moving on from MB was at least now we will actually rebuild... but I don't think that's what's happening at all

They never did say a full rebuild and I hope it doesn't go that far. 

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11 minutes ago, jennifer_rocket said:

What's everyone's opinion on what we should do with Gallagher moving forward? I believe he has a six-team no-trade list if we wanted to move him.

His production this year has been pretty bad for being the highest paid forward on the team? Is it an anomaly or a career decline?

probably a career decline but I still have hope he gets it together a little after a full off-season

I would move him if I could, I wouldn't demand much back, but I would rather keep him than retain salary unless the return is really good

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6 hours ago, jennifer_rocket said:

What's everyone's opinion on what we should do with Gallagher moving forward? I believe he has a six-team no-trade list if we wanted to move him.

Time to move on. I think it's unlikely that we can move him.  Suzuki for captain. 

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8 hours ago, jennifer_rocket said:

What's everyone's opinion on what we should do with Gallagher moving forward? I believe he has a six-team no-trade list if we wanted to move him.

His production this year has been pretty bad for being the highest paid forward on the team? Is it an anomaly or a career decline?

Hasn't the whole team been pretty bad?

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11 hours ago, electron58 said:

Gallagher has been non value added for a few years. On that note,  Gally is almost immovable.

Non-value added? 4 straight years of 30 goals (pro-rated) seems like pretty good value to me, especially when you consider his cap hit was 3.75 Mil. Last year was the first year a significant amount of time due to injury and was still on pace for 30 goals. That makes this year the outlier not the norm, sure it COULD become the norm but lets see if he bounces back next year before we write him off as being done.

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21 hours ago, jennifer_rocket said:

What's everyone's opinion on what we should do with Gallagher moving forward? I believe he has a six-team no-trade list if we wanted to move him.

His production this year has been pretty bad for being the highest paid forward on the team? Is it an anomaly or a career decline?

Emotionally, at the time we resigned him, most were like "yay" but in reality I think many were also worried about paying him for what he did in the past vs. what he was likely to do in the future.

I wouldnt be surprised to see him have a bounce back season but even then i dont think he'll be easy to trade.  I think there are teams that would love to have him and I think they'd even live with the cap hit but man, that term (5 more years after this one!) is a killer. I cant see any way you move him unless you take back an equally bad contract and the thing about Gallagher is that he shouldnt ever actively hurt us. You can play him on just about any line and he'll do whatever you ask of him.  

I think we likely just have to accept he's "ours" for the long term and use him accordingly.  He's not a bad player, he's just hugely overpaid at this point. 

1 hour ago, jennifer_rocket said:

Most of them, yes.

I'd consider Suzuki and Caulfield's seasons to be good. I think they've both showed good progress under St. Louis and have contributed offensively in such a way that I'm excited for their future development.

there are others, based on where they play in the lineup - pitlick (rem), wideman, romanov had a good development season, lekhs before he was traded, anderson, evans and even poehling had decent "moving forward' seasons... beyond that though, its pretty slim pickin's.... 

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1 hour ago, campabee82 said:

 That makes this year the outlier not the norm, sure it COULD become the norm but lets see if he bounces back next year before we write him off as being done.

why wait ? 

Let's be proactive 

He's not , never was and probably never will be a 70 , 80 100 pt player . Let's move him before he becomes old (er ) and slow(er) 

 

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13 hours ago, electron58 said:

Gallagher has been non value added for a few years. On that note,  Gally is almost immovable.

 

1 hour ago, campabee82 said:

Non-value added? 4 straight years of 30 goals (pro-rated) seems like pretty good value to me, especially when you consider his cap hit was 3.75 Mil. Last year was the first year a significant amount of time due to injury and was still on pace for 30 goals. That makes this year the outlier not the norm, sure it COULD become the norm but lets see if he bounces back next year before we write him off as being done.

 

27 minutes ago, Regis22 said:

why wait ? 

Let's be proactive 

He's not , never was and probably never will be a 70 , 80 100 pt player . Let's move him before he becomes old (er ) and slow(er) 

I would say there are other players (Hoffman, Armia, Byron, Petry, Savard), that should be moved far before Gally but he has stated his career is about winning so he may be impatient on the rebuild. Fact is with a 6 team NMC, and a top contract of 5 more years at $6.5M, without some salary retention, it is not an easy task. Perhaps LA (recreate the Danault magic), and a few other teams are possibilities. Given the lack of leadership on this team at the beginning of the season, hard to criticize Bergevin for this one contract in isolation as there were certainly expectations that Gally should not have had this severe a fall off. We can certainly blame Bergevin for stupid terms and amounts for Hoffman, Armia and Savard. more so than this one. 

Selling players at low values for perhaps temporary low performance is never a good thing. I believe we will see how next year pans out with Drouin's likely last year, assuming they play together, to see if some uptick in performance occurs before cutting the bait

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11 minutes ago, maas_art said:

Emotionally, at the time we resigned him, most were like "yay" but in reality I think many were also worried about paying him for what he did in the past vs. what he was likely to do in the future.

I wouldnt be surprised to see him have a bounce back season but even then i dont think he'll be easy to trade.  I think there are teams that would love to have him and I think they'd even live with the cap hit but man, that term (5 more years after this one!) is a killer. I cant see any way you move him unless you take back an equally bad contract and the thing about Gallagher is that he shouldnt ever actively hurt us. You can play him on just about any line and he'll do whatever you ask of him.  

I think we likely just have to accept he's "ours" for the long term and use him accordingly.  He's not a bad player, he's just hugely overpaid at this point. 

there are others, based on where they play in the lineup - pitlick (rem), wideman, romanov had a good development season, lekhs before he was traded, anderson, evans and even poehling had decent "moving forward' seasons... beyond that though, its pretty slim pickin's.... 

yeah I'm never going to mind keeping Gallagher. The way I see it, every team is going to have some bad contracts, if Carey Price and Brendan Gallagher are your bad contracts... that's not bad! But I still have hope for both of them. Of course, they are past their prime and in the case of Carey, there is no way he is not overpaid even if he finds his playoff form but both of them are both capable player and have shown so recently; Carey in the playoffs, and Gallagher had a productive even if shortened regular season. So they can come back still, I'm not sure they're done yet, and we need to stop worrying about long contracts, Carey for example, I think will end his career on LTIR

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5 minutes ago, claremont said:

 

 

I would say there are other players (Hoffman, Armia, Byron, Petry, Savard), that should be moved far before Gally but he has stated his career is about winning so he may be impatient on the rebuild. Fact is with a 6 team NMC, and a top contract of 5 more years at $6.5M, without some salary retention, it is not an easy task. Perhaps LA (recreate the Danault magic), and a few other teams are possibilities. Given the lack of leadership on this team at the beginning of the season, hard to criticize Bergevin for this one contract in isolation as there were certainly expectations that Gally should not have had this severe a fall off. We can certainly blame Bergevin for stupid terms and amounts for Hoffman, Armia and Savard. more so than this one. 

Selling players at low values for perhaps temporary low performance is never a good thing. I believe we will see how next year pans out with Drouin's likely last year, assuming they play together, to see if some uptick in performance occurs before cutting the bait

Agreed

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1 hour ago, Regis22 said:

why wait ? 

Let's be proactive 

He's not , never was and probably never will be a 70 , 80 100 pt player . Let's move him before he becomes old (er ) and slow(er) 

 

Yeah. As I said above, if he stays on the roster, he's not going to hurt you, he just wont be good value.  If someone makes an offer for him now & we're not taking back a bad contract, I would do it though, just to move on from those 5 years. 

 

1 hour ago, habsisme said:

yeah I'm never going to mind keeping Gallagher. The way I see it, every team is going to have some bad contracts, if Carey Price and Brendan Gallagher are your bad contracts... that's not bad! But I still have hope for both of them. Of course, they are past their prime and in the case of Carey, there is no way he is not overpaid even if he finds his playoff form but both of them are both capable player and have shown so recently; Carey in the playoffs, and Gallagher had a productive even if shortened regular season. So they can come back still, I'm not sure they're done yet, and we need to stop worrying about long contracts, Carey for example, I think will end his career on LTIR

Well said.    

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