H_T_L Posted April 23, 2022 Author Report Share Posted April 23, 2022 1 minute ago, habsisme said: I want one more year of rebuild. No serious free-agent signings, letting the kids play, trading older guys, just one more year of that, especially next year which is going to be a top-heavy AND deep draft And i can understand this point of view also. For myself, and a few of us on here, we're probably a little selfish in our stance, but that's mainly because we don't have a lot of years left in us. When a GM talks 5 year window to be competitive,, we might not be coherent enough to enjoy it that far away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habsisme Posted April 23, 2022 Report Share Posted April 23, 2022 22 minutes ago, H_T_L said: And i can understand this point of view also. For myself, and a few of us on here, we're probably a little selfish in our stance, but that's mainly because we don't have a lot of years left in us. When a GM talks 5 year window to be competitive,, we might not be coherent enough to enjoy it that far away. it doesn't make sense to do that long of a rebuild. But I think you have to go into at least one year and say we're not really trying to win this year. I'm a season ticket holder (and not exactly a rich one) so the team suking really hurts. But I'd rather bite the bullet one more year. Then again, I will say, if we won lottery and got wright, and we couldn't trade Price, and we add to our D in free agency, maybe a nice trade in there somewhere, and we're not a bad team neccessarily but we're still depending on an old goalie who has been hit or miss. If we TRY to win next year, I think the best we could hope for is to be a bubble team, why not focus on winning in two year and go straight back to being a playoff team for years to come after with some good young players coming up. I feel like it just makes to much sense, the planets are aligning for us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramcharger440 Posted April 23, 2022 Report Share Posted April 23, 2022 39 minutes ago, habsisme said: it doesn't make sense to do that long of a rebuild. But I think you have to go into at least one year and say we're not really trying to win this year. I'm a season ticket holder (and not exactly a rich one) so the team suking really hurts. But I'd rather bite the bullet one more year. Then again, I will say, if we won lottery and got wright, and we couldn't trade Price, and we add to our D in free agency, maybe a nice trade in there somewhere, and we're not a bad team neccessarily but we're still depending on an old goalie who has been hit or miss. If we TRY to win next year, I think the best we could hope for is to be a bubble team, why not focus on winning in two year and go straight back to being a playoff team for years to come after with some good young players coming up. I feel like it just makes to much sense, the planets are aligning for us Sometimes the players start playing better and you start to win, what do you do then? bench them send them to the minors? Next season is a crapshoot right now I think a lot will depend on what Hugo can do about getting rid of dead weight if he gets them gone without too much of a hit to us we can turn around and make moves for us if not we will have to bide our time before picking up new talent to support our kids. Until move get made we just don't know how it is going to look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claremont Posted April 23, 2022 Report Share Posted April 23, 2022 9 hours ago, BigTed3 said: Ideally if you're the Habs you accept one more re-building year but you want to be competitive in 2023-24. Drouin and Byron will be off the books then, but we'll still be stuck with Price (10.5M), Gallagher (6.5M), Hoffman (4.5M), Armia (3.4M), Petry (6.25M), Savard (3.5M), Edmundson (3.5M), Dvorak (4.45M), and Weber's 7.86M on the books. That's a lot of potential dead weight still. Sure, some of those guys might be traded, but in that case, we might be forced to eat salary back or give up picks/prospects, which is not ideal either. And remember that even if guys end up on LTIR like Weber, those contracts still count against you in the off-season and you can't go more than 10% above the salary cap even if you plan on shelving guys on LTIR once the season starts. So basically if the cap is 80M-ish, then Weber's contract alone is your overage for the off-season. Even if you plan on putting Price or Gallagher or so on on LTIR, it doesn't help you add anyone in the off-season. Then to boot, we also know Caufield and Romanov will be due raises by 2023, and that probably eats up all of the money you've save on Drouin and Byron. Even if we bridge those two players, I suspect Caufield will earn 5.5-6.5M on his next deal and Romanov 4-5M. This will take some wiggling from HuGo if they want to get back to being competitive within 2 years. Otherwise the salary limitations are going to slow down the ability to re-build faster. It's a fair statement on contract and cap hit hangover - It would be nice to get something for Drouin if he has any form of rebounding year but I doubt we get anything more than a late 2nd or 3rd for Byron. Also Jake Allen is off the books after next year, so unless we figure that we have some youngster like Dichow or Dobes coming up, the savings on Allen are at max just under $2M (possible 2023-4 1 year replacement at similar salary). To remove some of the dead weight and what's a few Million if Geoff Molson's franchise value keeps increasing, there are some buyout options 1) I say Savard is a candidate for a buyout - June/23 - Sure it handcuffs us a few years forward but the 2023-4 savings would be $$3.1M 2) Next, I would say Mike Hoffman is a candidate for a buyout - the 2023-4 savings would be $3.33 M The other heavy contracts aren't buyout candidates and are eat salary. With all that uncertainty of moves, and unless Weber's contract is unloaded to Arizona, it does make signing someone like Letang a lot more risky to your cap management 1 hour ago, H_T_L said: If it meant a guarantee of getting Beddard, then i'd be willing to suffer through one more year, but we all know there are NO guarantees like that,,, so if there's a chance to retool now, and be competitive, then i'm on board. I think it's more then doable with a couple key additions and subtractions. 1 hour ago, habsisme said: I want one more year of rebuild. No serious free-agent signings, letting the kids play, trading older guys, just one more year of that, especially next year which is going to be a top-heavy AND deep draft Whether we like it or not, I believe next year is a form of rebuild, maybe reset year and a lot hinges on Carey - based on the lineup I foresee, we might be a .400 hockey team and just short of the bubble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regis22 Posted April 23, 2022 Report Share Posted April 23, 2022 36 minutes ago, claremont said: Whether we like it or not, I believe next year is a form of rebuild, maybe reset year and a lot hinges on Carey - based on the lineup I foresee, we might be a .400 hockey team and just short of the bubble. I like him BUT his regular season stats for the last 4 years have not been good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graeme-1 Posted April 23, 2022 Report Share Posted April 23, 2022 11 hours ago, BigTed3 said: Ideally if you're the Habs you accept one more re-building year but you want to be competitive in 2023-24. Drouin and Byron will be off the books then, but we'll still be stuck with Price (10.5M), Gallagher (6.5M), Hoffman (4.5M), Armia (3.4M), Petry (6.25M), Savard (3.5M), Edmundson (3.5M), Dvorak (4.45M), and Weber's 7.86M on the books. That's a lot of potential dead weight still. Sure, some of those guys might be traded, but in that case, we might be forced to eat salary back or give up picks/prospects, which is not ideal either. And remember that even if guys end up on LTIR like Weber, those contracts still count against you in the off-season and you can't go more than 10% above the salary cap even if you plan on shelving guys on LTIR once the season starts. So basically if the cap is 80M-ish, then Weber's contract alone is your overage for the off-season. Even if you plan on putting Price or Gallagher or so on on LTIR, it doesn't help you add anyone in the off-season. Then to boot, we also know Caufield and Romanov will be due raises by 2023, and that probably eats up all of the money you've save on Drouin and Byron. Even if we bridge those two players, I suspect Caufield will earn 5.5-6.5M on his next deal and Romanov 4-5M. This will take some wiggling from HuGo if they want to get back to being competitive within 2 years. Otherwise the salary limitations are going to slow down the ability to re-build faster. It's true the offseason limits are a concern, but usually those contracts can be moved (even if it costs us something) to a team with cap space if needed. Even that aside, I'll admit it's hard to plan around permanent LTIR since it's not really in the team's control: the player has to agree to it and they have to have some sort of plausible career-ending injury. But Price and Gallagher are already looking pretty beat up, if it reaches the point they like the idea of retiring with full salary I imagine they'll have a plausible LTIR case. Pretty much all players on long & bad-looking contracts into their 30s end them on LTIR (Luongo the obvious exception). So while it's not a "plan", I have a feeling the problem will take care of itself over the next couple of years. Savard may be a buyout candidate, but as long as the cap is manageable next year, I think you hold off at least a year (worst-case if you need roster space, can send him to the minors, eat the cap hit, and buyout next summer). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graeme-1 Posted April 23, 2022 Report Share Posted April 23, 2022 3 hours ago, H_T_L said: Agreed. If it meant a guarantee of getting Beddard, then i'd be willing to suffer through one more year, but we all know there are NO guarantees like that,,, so if there's a chance to retool now, and be competitive, then i'm on board. I think it's more then doable with a couple key additions and subtractions. The thing is, I don't know there is that much of a chance. Of course with hot goaltending and some good luck, any team has a non-zero chance to make the playoffs, but I don't think there's any realistic moves that we can make this summer to give us even a 50% chance of making the playoffs. This is especially the case when you consider our division. Although teams do occasionally fall off fast (also known as "the San Jose") or hit a string of bad luck (also known as "the Vegas"), hoping for Toronto or one of the Florida teams to fall off next year isn't a plan. So you'd basically be hoping to keep up with Boston and/or some of the Metro teams, and hope other young teams like NJ & the Sens don't take a big jump and surpass us. I'm reasonably sure no one is planning to be competitive next year or make any moves that sacrifice the future for present. The big question is do we actively tank (trade Petry with no replacement, avoid signing any useful UFAs, only acquire players who will help in 2-3 years, etc) or is it more of a year where we make a half-ass attempt at making the playoffs (sign a couple short-term UFAs, don't just trade away useful players without strong returns, etc), even if it's highly unlikely to actually happen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTed3 Posted April 24, 2022 Report Share Posted April 24, 2022 4 hours ago, habsisme said: I want one more year of rebuild. No serious free-agent signings, letting the kids play, trading older guys, just one more year of that, especially next year which is going to be a top-heavy AND deep draft I'm not actively hoping to be bad next year, in that if the team can play well and challenge for the playoffs so be it. I'd love to see guys like Romanov, Suzuki, Caufield, Harris, Poehling, and Barron take such huge leaps that they make us better faster than we thought. I'd love to see Norlinder, Guhle, Ylonen, RHP or others surprise us and be ready sooner than the Habs thought. What I don't want to see is the Marc Bergevin patchwork approach to try to be just good enough to not be in the bottom tier but not really good enough to challenge for anything and not having a plan for when you want to be elite. The plan going forward should be that you want to be back in the playoffs in 2023-24 and you want to be a legit Cup challenger by 2024 or 2025 at the latest. So any move you make should be with that goal in mind. Signing a 30+ year-old to a 5 year-deal doesn't take you there. Signing journeymen to fill your line-up, get 2-3 extra wins next year but take away developmental playing time from your youngsters doesn't get you there. If we're bad enough to win Beard or Fantilli or Michkov, then that's what it is. I'd rather have a legit shot at a top 3 pick as we do this year than finish 12th last by struggling to get there and not really having anything we're building towards. The recipe to winning in this league is clear: the most likely path to success is having a couple of top 5 picks along the way, it's having 1-2 elite centers, a 25-minute #1 D man and then putting together a supporting cast to play around those players. It would be a mistake to try and patch this with a couple of vets and set us back in the long run. So ride the youngsters and if they play well, then at least it tells you your core is heading in the right direction for sustained success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
electron58 Posted April 26, 2022 Report Share Posted April 26, 2022 HABS CONTRACTS: 47/50 49 if you count Shea Weber & Jonathon Drouin.(LTIR) We have 3 draft picks signed, that begin next year. Off the Books, This Year - Who do you keep? Remember, you have to stock the Farm Teams. Not sure what draft picks need to be signed by this year. Tyler Pitlick RW UFA ???? Mathieu Perrault LW UFA gone Laurent Dauphin C UFA ???? Mike Pezzetta LW RFA ???? Kale Clague LD RFA ???? Chris Wideman RD UFA ???? William Lagesson LD UFA ???? Cayden Primeau G RFA ???? Sam Montembeault G RFA ???? Cedric Paquette LW UFA gone Nathan Schnarr C RFA ???? Joel Teasdale LW RFA ???? Jean-Sebastien Dea C UFA ???? Lukas Vejdemo C UFA ???? Alex Belzile RW UFA ???? Josh Brook RD RFA gone Louis Belpedio RD UFA ???? Sami Niku LD UFA ???? Corey Schueneman LD RFA ???? Xavier Ouellet LD UFA ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
campabee82 Posted April 26, 2022 Report Share Posted April 26, 2022 6 hours ago, electron58 said: HABS CONTRACTS: 47/50 49 if you count Shea Weber & Jonathon Drouin.(LTIR) We have 3 draft picks signed, that begin next year. Off the Books, This Year - Who do you keep? Remember, you have to stock the Farm Teams. Not sure what draft picks need to be signed by this year. Tyler Pitlick RW UFA ???? Mathieu Perrault LW UFA gone Laurent Dauphin C UFA ???? Mike Pezzetta LW RFA ???? Kale Clague LD RFA ???? Chris Wideman RD UFA ???? William Lagesson LD UFA ???? Cayden Primeau G RFA ???? Sam Montembeault G RFA ???? Cedric Paquette LW UFA gone Nathan Schnarr C RFA ???? Joel Teasdale LW RFA ???? Jean-Sebastien Dea C UFA ???? Lukas Vejdemo C UFA ???? Alex Belzile RW UFA ???? Josh Brook RD RFA gone Louis Belpedio RD UFA ???? Sami Niku LD UFA ???? Corey Schueneman LD RFA ???? Xavier Ouellet LD UFA ???? Never mind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
campabee82 Posted April 26, 2022 Report Share Posted April 26, 2022 IMO gone are: T. Pitlick Perreault Clague Wideman (unless he takes a 1 year buriable deal) Pacquette Teasdale Dea Brook Everyone else is resigned on 1 or 2 year deals to play in AHL or as depth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiLla Posted April 26, 2022 Report Share Posted April 26, 2022 8 hours ago, electron58 said: HABS CONTRACTS: 47/50 49 if you count Shea Weber & Jonathon Drouin.(LTIR) We have 3 draft picks signed, that begin next year. Off the Books, This Year - Who do you keep? Remember, you have to stock the Farm Teams. Not sure what draft picks need to be signed by this year. Tyler Pitlick RW UFA ???? Mathieu Perrault LW UFA gone Laurent Dauphin C UFA ???? Mike Pezzetta LW RFA ???? Kale Clague LD RFA ???? Chris Wideman RD UFA ???? William Lagesson LD UFA ???? Cayden Primeau G RFA ???? Sam Montembeault G RFA ???? Cedric Paquette LW UFA gone Nathan Schnarr C RFA ???? Joel Teasdale LW RFA ???? Jean-Sebastien Dea C UFA ???? Lukas Vejdemo C UFA ???? Alex Belzile RW UFA ???? Josh Brook RD RFA gone Louis Belpedio RD UFA ???? Sami Niku LD UFA ???? Corey Schueneman LD RFA ???? Xavier Ouellet LD UFA ???? I agree with campabee. This mostly looks like a list of spare parts to me, I think there's a good chance that none of those guys will be tipping the scales going forward. I'd be okay with giving Pezzetta, Clague, Schueneman, and one of Primeau/Montembeault another shot as injury replacements but the rest of those guys will likely be gone or signed as AHL depth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
campabee82 Posted April 26, 2022 Report Share Posted April 26, 2022 3 hours ago, ChiLla said: I agree with campabee. This mostly looks like a list of spare parts to me, I think there's a good chance that none of those guys will be tipping the scales going forward. I'd be okay with giving Pezzetta, Clague, Schueneman, and one of Primeau/Montembeault another shot as injury replacements but the rest of those guys will likely be gone or signed as AHL depth. I think both Primeau and Monty will be back. If I am correct the league changed the rules so teams can carry 3 goalies. If that is the case I believe Primeau gets sent to Laval and Monty is carried as our 3 goalie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jennifer_rocket Posted April 26, 2022 Report Share Posted April 26, 2022 12 minutes ago, campabee82 said: I think both Primeau and Monty will be back. If I am correct the league changed the rules so teams can carry 3 goalies. If that is the case I believe Primeau gets sent to Laval and Monty is carried as our 3 goalie. I hope we don't bring back both Primeau and Montembeault. I would be fine with bringing one back and having them play in Laval (Primeau is my preference), but neither needs to be starting the season in Montreal. I'll go with Primeau in Laval as he's much younger than Montembeault and maybe (just maybe) there's a chance he can develop into an NHL quality player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
campabee82 Posted April 26, 2022 Report Share Posted April 26, 2022 Just now, jennifer_rocket said: I hope we don't bring back both Primeau and Montembeault. I would be fine with bringing one back and having them play in Laval (Primeau is my preference), but neither needs to be starting the season in Montreal. I'll go with Primeau in Laval as he's much younger than Montembeault and maybe (just maybe) there's a chance he can develop into an NHL quality player. Then who would you sign/bring in as our emergency backup? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
campabee82 Posted April 26, 2022 Report Share Posted April 26, 2022 I believe the rules stated that they have to be on a league min contract Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jennifer_rocket Posted April 26, 2022 Report Share Posted April 26, 2022 3 minutes ago, campabee82 said: Then who would you sign/bring in as our emergency backup? There seem to be a few free agents that could maybe be offered a deal. Marc-Andre Fleury Darcy Keumper Jack Campbell Casey DeSmith Ville Husso However, I kind of assume we'll have Allen next season. Hopefully Price. Primeau in Laval. Maybe we just need a prospect or a cheap free agent to back-up Primeau in Laval. I guess it depends on what happens with Carey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
campabee82 Posted April 26, 2022 Report Share Posted April 26, 2022 1 minute ago, jennifer_rocket said: There seem to be a few free agents that could maybe be offered a deal. Marc-Andre Fleury Darcy Keumper Jack Campbell Casey DeSmith Ville Husso However, I kind of assume we'll have Allen next season. Hopefully Price. Primeau in Laval. Maybe we just need a prospect or a cheap free agent to back-up Primeau in Laval. I guess it depends on what happens with Carey. LOL no, I meant that from my recollection. The league changed the rules so that all teams have to carry a 3rd goalie on the roster to avoid an Ares situation. So Price is the starter, Allen is the backup and Monty would be the 3rd goalie. Primeau would be sent to Laval. Who would you replace Monty with if you don't resign him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claremont Posted April 26, 2022 Report Share Posted April 26, 2022 5 hours ago, campabee82 said: IMO gone are: T. Pitlick Perreault Clague Wideman (unless he takes a 1 year buriable deal) Pacquette Teasdale Dea Brook Everyone else is resigned on 1 or 2 year deals to play in AHL or as depth. I would take your list and add back Teasdale - the heart and grit that he has shown is a testament and he will be resilient for Laval Rocket in the playoffs. 14 ahl goals and 24 points in 41 games recovered from very bad injuries is proof enough for me. I would extend him one more year - he may never make the nhl roster but he's a character guy and role model for the young organization. Then I would add to your list Dauphin - UFA (I have no interest in resigning him). I would sign one of Primeau or Montembault but not both - Monty is UFA so depending on negotiations / willingness, you have Primeau as RFA, so one of them should be on your list. Lagesson is UFA - he just takes up space, I would not resign him. Belzile will be 31 next season - time to move on as a UFA he gets an AHL deal at best, so not on official roster. Niku or Ouellet - Only require one of at best, as Norlinder and Xhekaj are almost certain development candidates for Laval's blueline. Belpedio is a maybe borderline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jennifer_rocket Posted April 27, 2022 Report Share Posted April 27, 2022 6 hours ago, campabee82 said: LOL no, I meant that from my recollection. The league changed the rules so that all teams have to carry a 3rd goalie on the roster to avoid an Ares situation. So Price is the starter, Allen is the backup and Monty would be the 3rd goalie. Primeau would be sent to Laval. Who would you replace Monty with if you don't resign him. Oh jeez, really? I didn't realize all teams had to carry a third goaltender going forward. Well, I suppose if that's the case, then I would have to think about resigning Montembeault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
campabee82 Posted April 27, 2022 Report Share Posted April 27, 2022 39 minutes ago, jennifer_rocket said: Oh jeez, really? I didn't realize all teams had to carry a third goaltender going forward. Well, I suppose if that's the case, then I would have to think about resigning Montembeault. That was my understanding, remember last season when they brought in the taxi squad. I believe they changed the rule to require teams to carry 3 goalies then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
electron58 Posted April 28, 2022 Report Share Posted April 28, 2022 Maybe after May 10th, 2022, we can start a thread on what You would do after the season to make the Habs whole again. Taking into account the cap hits, LTIR & buy outs, after making trades and drafting players. Anything that would be realistically reasonable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs1952 Posted April 28, 2022 Report Share Posted April 28, 2022 Once again the Habs have set a new record as an organization: The first team to finish last in a 32 team NHL season. All together now: WE'RE 32ND! WE'RE 32ND! WE'RE 32ND! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habsisme Posted April 28, 2022 Report Share Posted April 28, 2022 17 minutes ago, habs1952 said: Once again the Habs have set a new record as an organization: The first team to finish last in a 32 team NHL season. All together now: WE'RE 32ND! WE'RE 32ND! WE'RE 32ND! no one has ever done it before! Still not as nice as winning the Clarence Campbell for the first time last year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regis22 Posted April 29, 2022 Report Share Posted April 29, 2022 https://montrealgazette.com/sports/hockey/nhl/hockey-inside-out/hickey Hickey on Hockey: Canadiens' rebuild beginning to look like a teardown Montreal is up against the cap and has only 19 players, including Shea Weber, under contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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