2021-22 State of the Habs

[electron58]

3 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

Philip Danault the latest former Hab to speak out against the prior Habs regime and say it's nice to play in a system now where every little mistake you make isn't pointed out to you and you aren't punished for them. This from a guy who had more leash than most players. Doesn't say much for Therrien, Julien, Ducharme, or Bergevin here.

Isn't one of the clowns from the previous regime in LA now?

[Regis22]

1 minute ago, electron58 said:

Isn't one of the clowns from the previous regime in LA now?

Yes

Senior Advisor to the General Manager 

I guess Rob Blake needs someone to advise him on senior matters . 

 

 

 

[BigTed3]

8 hours ago, electron58 said:

Isn't one of the clowns from the previous regime in LA now?

Yeah, but he wasn't there when Danault chose to sign there.

[Manatee-X]

13 hours ago, maas_art said:

Yeah, yikes.  If PD is speaking out against the system you're in trouble because a) he was given a lot of rope and b) he plays a simple game with very few mistakes.  If he felt it was an inhospitable situation I can only imagine what the young guys must have felt. 

Even if it wasn't directed at him, though, he's still got eyes and ears.  Just on a human level it can't feel good to watch your friends/colleagues/teammates get chewed out for every mistake.

I'm just happy that I can once again wake up in the morning and know that those folks are behind us.

[jennifer_rocket]

Yikes. If Danault is saying that, you know it must've been a pretty sad state of affairs. 

[electron58]

10 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

Yeah, but he wasn't there when Danault chose to sign there.

True. But he's there now, when Danault chose to speak out.

[electron58]

7 hours ago, jennifer_rocket said:

Yikes. If Danault is saying that, you know it must've been a pretty sad state of affairs. 

And yet,  the French Canadien players always got a lot of rope, despite having similar problems.  Generational problem.

[H_T_L]

Dano's main complaint was probably because nobody gave him much ice on the PP. Other then that he certainly can't complain about his TOI.

[Regis22]

No worries with this roster 

https://thehockeywriters.com/montreal-canadiens-tank-best-bet-success-2022-23/

Canadiens’ Best Bet for Long-Term Success Is to Tank 2022-23

 

 

[jennifer_rocket]

15 hours ago, Regis22 said:

No worries with this roster 

https://thehockeywriters.com/montreal-canadiens-tank-best-bet-success-2022-23/

Canadiens’ Best Bet for Long-Term Success Is to Tank 2022-23

 

 

Yeah. I imagine the tank will be happening again next year. I'm not upset about it, TBH. The roster won't be good enough to compete for a playoff spot unless some BIG moves happen this off-season. I imagine will easily be in the bottom 10 next season.

[CaptWelly]

16 hours ago, Regis22 said:

No worries with this roster 

https://thehockeywriters.com/montreal-canadiens-tank-best-bet-success-2022-23/

Canadiens’ Best Bet for Long-Term Success Is to Tank 2022-23

 

 

The Article did also mention the Sabres and how it's not a guarantee for success 

[habsisme]

I don't know guys, this is what scares  me. It seems the vast majority of habs fans that I know and the vast majority of the media think the habs should avoid free agency and keep thinking about things at least a year in advance and basically forget this season. 

But I have heard nothing of the sort from HuGo and the rumours are quite the opposite, that they plan to be big players in free agency. I'm very anxious about this off-season. I know what's going to happen. They are going to make a splash in free agency but the moves won't seem TERRIBLE, that's what we'll say, "not my preference but I'm okay with this." We'll start thinking hey Price is supposed to be back and healthy, and Wright is supposed to be NHL ready, we've added x and y in free agency, and we have a few young players that project to be NHL ready this year, maybe we can make some noise. And we'll get excited about the season. It may end up even being a good one, a second round exit or so.

Except now instead of having a gauranteed top 10 and probably top 5 pick in a strong draft, you have players x and y and they're not so good contracts forcing them to sign Caufield to a bridge deal (which didn't make him happy). And instead of having extra picks in the first and second round, we let Drouin, Byron, and Allen walk out for free. It was a self-rental, but we'll say that was prudent, at least we didn't go out and buy anything, forgetting all that we lost. 

I want to remind everyone that all that has happened so far, happened in the Bergevin era too (twice), disaster seasons (at least one partially due to record injury, just like this year), that led to a top 5 pick in a bad draft year, from a player who immediately contributed and gave us hope and then fizzled because they could never live up to the expectations. And then the cycle continues, a handful of years of mediocrity and then the disaster season again. 

Its just one more year. And its not going to be a bad year because we'll be cheering for our younger players and watching them develop but I don't think HuGo is going to let us have it. Anyone want to start a petition begging them not to? 

[maas_art]

42 minutes ago, habsisme said:

I don't know guys, this is what scares  me. It seems the vast majority of habs fans that I know and the vast majority of the media think the habs should avoid free agency and keep thinking about things at least a year in advance and basically forget this season. 

But I have heard nothing of the sort from HuGo and the rumours are quite the opposite, that they plan to be big players in free agency. I'm very anxious about this off-season. I know what's going to happen. They are going to make a splash in free agency but the moves won't seem TERRIBLE, that's what we'll say, "not my preference but I'm okay with this." We'll start thinking hey Price is supposed to be back and healthy, and Wright is supposed to be NHL ready, we've added x and y in free agency, and we have a few young players that project to be NHL ready this year, maybe we can make some noise. And we'll get excited about the season. It may end up even being a good one, a second round exit or so.

Except now instead of having a gauranteed top 10 and probably top 5 pick in a strong draft, you have players x and y and they're not so good contracts forcing them to sign Caufield to a bridge deal (which didn't make him happy). And instead of having extra picks in the first and second round, we let Drouin, Byron, and Allen walk out for free. It was a self-rental, but we'll say that was prudent, at least we didn't go out and buy anything, forgetting all that we lost. 

I want to remind everyone that all that has happened so far, happened in the Bergevin era too (twice), disaster seasons (at least one partially due to record injury, just like this year), that led to a top 5 pick in a bad draft year, from a player who immediately contributed and gave us hope and then fizzled because they could never live up to the expectations. And then the cycle continues, a handful of years of mediocrity and then the disaster season again. 

Its just one more year. And its not going to be a bad year because we'll be cheering for our younger players and watching them develop but I don't think HuGo is going to let us have it. Anyone want to start a petition begging them not to? 

All very valid points.  

I think one thing that we have to keep reminding ourselves is that HuGo is not MB.  So far, everything HuGo has said - and done - has been within a 'bigger plan' and there's no red flags to make me think "oh oh, this may not be our best choice."     If they *truly* believe the best course is a retool, i have no concerns.   I was not as much of a MB hater as many, I think he did certain things very well but he sorely lacked a big picture plan.  Making a move like Subban for Weber to "win now" and then not filling other holes illustrates that to a T. As does letting all our LD walk one summer and then trading our one good LD prospect.    HuGo does seem to have a plan though so i think we need to let them go with it.

Your concerns are all valid and (lets hope) they dont come true, but, just because it worked that way in the past doesnt mean it will work that way with this crop.  

My own gut feeling is that we might make a big more in free agency (ie Letang) but we will offset it by moving out Petry.   Remember this is a group that traded away guys like Toffoli, Chiarot and Lekhonen just a few months ago. I think their moves will be calculated and reveal a (hopefully)  good long-term plan. 

[jennifer_rocket]

I'm actually not sure where the rumors about us being active in free agency came from. I do remember something else going around (no source, sorry) saying we weren't going to be in on big names during free agency.

I imagine we'll get a much clearer image of what our 2022-23 expectations will be at the draft. We'll see if we make any trades to move out some players and what comes back the other way. I imagine we'll see some movement in free agency, but I would be surprised if we sign any top players to long-term deals. I mean, heck... Even if we wanted to do that, we know how difficult it can be to lure top players to Montreal. It's probably trickier now that we're coming off of a massively disappointing season in terms of on-ice results.

[habsisme]

17 minutes ago, jennifer_rocket said:

I'm actually not sure where the rumors about us being active in free agency came from. I do remember something else going around (no source, sorry) saying we weren't going to be in on big names during free agency.

I imagine we'll get a much clearer image of what our 2022-23 expectations will be at the draft. We'll see if we make any trades to move out some players and what comes back the other way. I imagine we'll see some movement in free agency, but I would be surprised if we sign any top players to long-term deals. I mean, heck... Even if we wanted to do that, we know how difficult it can be to lure top players to Montreal. It's probably trickier now that we're coming off of a massively disappointing season in terms of on-ice results.

See to me only bad thing with MB is his refusal to rebuild. Thats the big plan he didn't have. Otherwise what? He didn't find a first line center? Good luck with that! He actually did find us one miraculously. Im already done with HuGo if they make free angent signings (ill only accept a short term d man to replace petry if we move him) otherwise we're just spinning our wheels again

Its ONE year just one year to sacrifice.

18 minutes ago, jennifer_rocket said:

I'm actually not sure where the rumors about us being active in free agency came from. I do remember something else going around (no source, sorry) saying we weren't going to be in on big names during free agency.

I imagine we'll get a much clearer image of what our 2022-23 expectations will be at the draft. We'll see if we make any trades to move out some players and what comes back the other way. I imagine we'll see some movement in free agency, but I would be surprised if we sign any top players to long-term deals. I mean, heck... Even if we wanted to do that, we know how difficult it can be to lure top players to Montreal. It's probably trickier now that we're coming off of a massively disappointing season in terms of on-ice results.

Yeah but theres a lot of old players that are past their prime that would come here if we continued to pay them 10 million a year on a long term deal

[habsisme]

On 5/17/2022 at 7:01 PM, BigTed3 said:

Philip Danault the latest former Hab to speak out against the prior Habs regime and say it's nice to play in a system now where every little mistake you make isn't pointed out to you and you aren't punished for them. This from a guy who had more leash than most players. Doesn't say much for Therrien, Julien, Ducharme, or Bergevin here.

I don't know. If I was a hockey player I would want coaches to tell what I did wrong and what I can improve. I think they're being babies a bit. 

[maas_art]

29 minutes ago, jennifer_rocket said:

heck... Even if we wanted to do that, we know how difficult it can be to lure top players to Montreal.

Gorton did it in NY.  

People like to point out the weather or the taxes in Montreal are so bad - because we compare them to Texas or Florida - but in the case of NY the  tax rate on say a $5m salary is 48.53% compared with  52.80% in Montreal.  Not a huge difference. And the weather is a wash. 

[Regis22]

2 hours ago, habsisme said:

But I have heard nothing of the sort from HuGo and the rumours are quite the opposite, that they plan to be big players in free agency. I'm very anxious about this off-season. I know what's going to happen. They are going to make a splash in free agency but the moves won't seem TERRIBLE, that's what we'll say, "not my preference but I'm okay with this." We'll start thinking hey Price is supposed to be back and healthy, and Wright is supposed to be NHL ready, we've added x and y in free agency, and we have a few young players that project to be NHL ready this year, maybe we can make some noise. And we'll get excited about the season. It may end up even being a good one, a second round exit or so.

This team won't make the playoffs next year . There's no way they are passing either of Florida, Toronto, Tampa, or Boston .

2017-18 Did not qualify for the playoffs

2018-19 Did not qualify for the playoffs

2019-20 would have missed the playoffs but the league added a buy in round and they beat Pittsburgh. Then lost in the 1st round 

2020-21 Stanley Cup Finals .  An anomaly .

2021-22 Did not qualify for the playoffs

After all these years of missing the playoffs what did the previous GM do ? Did he rebuild . Nope . He signed Petry , Gallagher to extensions . Signed David Savard , Hoffman , Wideman 

That's the definition of madness . 

 

[campabee82]

My feeling is we sign a couple of guys to 2 or 3 year deals to make at least 1 more run with Price and Co. I think the biggest signings will be Perron and Letang (although I would prefer to trade for Marino and have the Pens keep Letang). Guys I see them moving out (through trade, not resigning, buyout or termination/retirement) are Armia (he is increasing his value again at the worlds), Hoffman, Drouin, T. Pitlick, Perrault, Pacquette, Clague, Niku, Wideman and Lagesson. Maybe moved include Poehling, Dvorak, Dauphin, R Pitlick, Savard, Petry, Allen and Montembeault. .

FA targets I see of interest are, Letang, Perron, Kadri, Subban, Fleury, Giroux, Forsberg, Domi, R. Strome, Georgiev and Husso. My gut is that Letang and Perron are the main targets and if we trade Dvorak, I can see Kadri as a fill-in until Wright surpasses him for 2C. Lineup would then be something like

Caufield-Suzuki-Anderson 

Perron-Kadri-Roy

Ylonen-Wright-Gallagher

Pitlick-Poehling-Evans

Romanov-Letang

Edmundson-Petry

Harris-Barron

Price

Allen

Schueneman

Dauphin

Pezzetta 

Cap works with 5.67 Mil space, out are Armia, Byron, Drouin, Weber, Savard, Hoffman and Dvorak (Dvorak is highly unlikely to move but included him to bring in Kadri) 

Letang -> 3 years at 7.25 Mil

Kadri -> 3 years at 6.25 Mil

Perron -> 3 years at 4.25 Mil

This is sort of the moves I can see Hugo making IF the plan is a retool instead of rebuild.

[campabee82]

On a side note to the above, we wouldn't have to move Dvorak if we didn't want to. We could simply not resign Dauphin and move Poehling to a scratched spot.

[habsisme]

37 minutes ago, Regis22 said:

This team won't make the playoffs next year . There's no way they are passing either of Florida, Toronto, Tampa, or Boston .

2017-18 Did not qualify for the playoffs

2018-19 Did not qualify for the playoffs

2019-20 would have missed the playoffs but the league added a buy in round and they beat Pittsburgh. Then lost in the 1st round 

2020-21 Stanley Cup Finals .  An anomaly .

2021-22 Did not qualify for the playoffs

After all these years of missing the playoffs what did the previous GM do ? Did he rebuild . Nope . He signed Petry , Gallagher to extensions . Signed David Savard , Hoffman , Wideman 

That's the definition of madness . 

 

thats not how rebuilding works. You actually have to go into the season being happy to lose. HuGo, if rumors are true, are not doing that

[habsisme]

12 minutes ago, campabee82 said:

My feeling is we sign a couple of guys to 2 or 3 year deals to make at least 1 more run with Price and Co. I think the biggest signings will be Perron and Letang (although I would prefer to trade for Marino and have the Pens keep Letang). Guys I see them moving out (through trade, not resigning, buyout or termination/retirement) are Armia (he is increasing his value again at the worlds), Hoffman, Drouin, T. Pitlick, Perrault, Pacquette, Clague, Niku, Wideman and Lagesson. Maybe moved include Poehling, Dvorak, Dauphin, R Pitlick, Savard, Petry, Allen and Montembeault. .

FA targets I see of interest are, Letang, Perron, Kadri, Subban, Fleury, Giroux, Forsberg, Domi, R. Strome, Georgiev and Husso. My gut is that Letang and Perron are the main targets and if we trade Dvorak, I can see Kadri as a fill-in until Wright surpasses him for 2C. Lineup would then be something like

Caufield-Suzuki-Anderson 

Perron-Kadri-Roy

Ylonen-Wright-Gallagher

Pitlick-Poehling-Evans

Romanov-Letang

Edmundson-Petry

Harris-Barron

Price

Allen

Schueneman

Dauphin

Pezzetta 

Cap works with 5.67 Mil space, out are Armia, Byron, Drouin, Weber, Savard, Hoffman and Dvorak (Dvorak is highly unlikely to move but included him to bring in Kadri) 

Letang -> 3 years at 7.25 Mil

Kadri -> 3 years at 6.25 Mil

Perron -> 3 years at 4.25 Mil

This is sort of the moves I can see Hugo making IF the plan is a retool instead of rebuild.

if they were signing at those terms and cap hits, I would be fine with it. But Kadri is going to have options and could easily as for 10 million a year, I don't see him coming here and if he did or malking did, its the exact thing the leafs did, tried to win too early and signed Tavares. Then they kept trading their draft picks because they kept trying to win too soon. Now its time for them to win, the clock is ticking and they cant do it. 

I really don't get why everyone is okay with retooling now

[habsisme]

1 hour ago, maas_art said:

Gorton did it in NY.  

People like to point out the weather or the taxes in Montreal are so bad - because we compare them to Texas or Florida - but in the case of NY the  tax rate on say a $5m salary is 48.53% compared with  52.80% in Montreal.  Not a huge difference. And the weather is a wash. 

new york is different. Everything Gorton did in New York can be chalked up to being in new york. What are the rangers without Fox and Panarin? Those guys were playing with the rangers no matter who was GM. Not saying Gorton is a bad GM not at all, he's at least average but I don't credit him with the rangers turnaround all the much. New York is one the best places to play. You're in the center of the work, best of everything all around you, your famous BUT you're like the 6th most important team in the market so it doesn't get crazy. Not like that in Montreal (or Toronto) 

[campabee82]

5 minutes ago, habsisme said:

if they were signing at those terms and cap hits, I would be fine with it. But Kadri is going to have options and could easily as for 10 million a year, I don't see him coming here and if he did or malking did, its the exact thing the leafs did, tried to win too early and signed Tavares. Then they kept trading their draft picks because they kept trying to win too soon. Now its time for them to win, the clock is ticking and they cant do it. 

I really don't get why everyone is okay with retooling now

Kadri grew up a Habs fan, so IF given the chance to play here and potentially win with Price, Letang and Co he might take less in actual salary and more in bonuses and royalties. 

[CaptWelly]

1 hour ago, habsisme said:

I don't know. If I was a hockey player I would want coaches to tell what I did wrong and what I can improve. I think they're being babies a bit. 

I agree with this and isn't that what they are supposed to do?