2021-22 State of the Habs

[Graeme-1]

1 hour ago, habsisme said:

Just for the record, when i say tanking, I don't mean the team is TRYING to lose. I just mean you don't do anything that will help your team UNLESS it ALSO helps you in the future. Ideally you lose a lot of games... but if your team surprises and plays well, that's not a bad thing at all. That means your future core did it all on its own with a bare bones team and you have a lot of good young talent. That's no problem at all!

Obviously there's no official definition, but to me that's not tanking. I see "tanking" more in the context of "tanking for McDavid" or "having a draft lottery to prevent tanking": basically I see tanking as the idea that winning is a bad thing.   What you describe to me I think of more as "rebuilding", but as I said, there's no dictionary definition, so I guess we can all be right  

I'm anti-tank, pro-build! 

[Graeme-1]

1 hour ago, Regis22 said:

lol

They didn' tank this year .  They were a bad hockey club  . Bad with Ducharme and still Bad with MSL . 

For sure the intention going in was not to tank, I think you can argue once Gorton came in, at least our management group was either intentionally tanking (proof towards this is keeping DD so long, not really addressing the goaltending injuries, the trade deadline, etc) or at the very least, indifferent to losing. 

[campabee82]

1 minute ago, Graeme-1 said:

Obviously there's no official definition, but to me that's not tanking. I see "tanking" more in the context of "tanking for McDavid" or "having a draft lottery to prevent tanking": basically I see tanking as the idea that winning is a bad thing.   What you describe to me I think of more as "rebuilding", but as I said, there's no dictionary definition, so I guess we can all be right  

I'm anti-tank, pro-build! 

Yes I see tanking way as well, for me it is defined as building a team to intentionally finish last by winning as few games as possible. 

[Regis22]

https://thehockeywriters.com/canadiens-wrong-time-to-pursue-letang/

 

The Time Isn’t Right for the Canadiens to Pursue Letang

May 22, 2022 by Melissa Boyd

[jennifer_rocket]

I just don't understand why Letang would want to come here. Sure, Hughes used to be his agent... Still doesn't make any sense to me. Why would someone who has been competing for Cups for almost his whole career want to come and miss the playoffs with Montreal?

[H_T_L]

2 minutes ago, jennifer_rocket said:

I just don't understand why Letang would want to come here. Sure, Hughes used to be his agent... Still doesn't make any sense to me. Why would someone who has been competing for Cups for almost his whole career want to come and miss the playoffs with Montreal?

Money talks.

[maas_art]

29 minutes ago, Regis22 said:

https://thehockeywriters.com/canadiens-wrong-time-to-pursue-letang/

 

The Time Isn’t Right for the Canadiens to Pursue Letang

May 22, 2022 by Melissa Boyd

 

8 minutes ago, jennifer_rocket said:

I just don't understand why Letang would want to come here. Sure, Hughes used to be his agent... Still doesn't make any sense to me. Why would someone who has been competing for Cups for almost his whole career want to come and miss the playoffs with Montreal?

 

5 minutes ago, H_T_L said:

Money talks.

Yeah this is the thing with Letang:  Would he want to come here?  Maybe, but probably only if it means we're paying him more, or longer than the Pens.

I definitely dont want him for 4+ years.  I would be fine with 1-2 and could probably live with 3 years but the question is: why? Do we need him for the next 3 years? I understand we're likely to lose Petry but this team will (at best) be a bubble team. 

So, for me, I dont mind at all taking him on for 1-2 years but a: why does he want to do it and b: is there really any point/need in the short term? 

[habsisme]

If Letang comes here, 100% we offered the most term/money. We'll be getting a player who is after job security, not one trying to win. 

But the more I think about it, the more I think Hughes is helping a former client out (I think he's a former client) by creating an auction for him. Letang doesn't make sense here at all

[maas_art]

8 minutes ago, habsisme said:

If Letang comes here, 100% we offered the most term/money. We'll be getting a player who is after job security, not one trying to win. 

But the more I think about it, the more I think Hughes is helping a former client out (I think he's a former client) by creating an auction for him. Letang doesn't make sense here at all

Ideally, id love to trade Petry to a team that is in a win-now mode for their 18-20 year old offensive defensman.  A guy who maybe will be a top pairing guy in the future but will not help that team win now.  If Chicago, for example, is really in a win-now mode, do they deal us Nicolas Beaudin or Alec Regula as part of a package for Petry?   Then you let guys like Beaudin, Barron, Harris, Guhle, Romanov, etc fight it out for position.   You still have Edmundson & Savard as vets.  

[habs1952]

5 hours ago, jennifer_rocket said:

I just don't understand why Letang would want to come here. Sure, Hughes used to be his agent... Still doesn't make any sense to me. Why would someone who has been competing for Cups for almost his whole career want to come and miss the playoffs with Montreal?

I don't understand why the Habs would want him. 

[Regis22]

8 minutes ago, habs1952 said:

I don't understand why the Habs would want him. 

Veteran presence . It would be really ( really. ) bad if all the D are rookies 

[claremont]

4 hours ago, maas_art said:

Ideally, id love to trade Petry to a team that is in a win-now mode for their 18-20 year old offensive defensman.  A guy who maybe will be a top pairing guy in the future but will not help that team win now.  If Chicago, for example, is really in a win-now mode, do they deal us Nicolas Beaudin or Alec Regula as part of a package for Petry?   Then you let guys like Beaudin, Barron, Harris, Guhle, Romanov, etc fight it out for position.   You still have Edmundson & Savard as vets.  

That’s not a bad thought as part of a package. RHD Regula was one of the youngest in his 2018 draft class at #67 overall and was returned to 2 more seasons of junior. There must be something in his game that Detroit could not correct before shipping him off to Chicago for the slug Perlini. Gorton seems to like these types of trades for youth and potential development - Zbanejad, Fox etc. 

LHD Beaudin - I’d pass unless he’s a throwin - we don’t really need more LHD so I’d want something else like picks or some other RHD roster development. 

[claremont]

4 hours ago, habsisme said:

If Letang comes here, 100% we offered the most term/money. We'll be getting a player who is after job security, not one trying to win. 

But the more I think about it, the more I think Hughes is helping a former client out (I think he's a former client) by creating an auction for him. Letang doesn't make sense here at all

Even if Letang is stepping in as Petry’s trade replacement, his signing strikes me as a misuse of Molson’s trust by Hughes rewarding  his former client. Might as well draft and sign his son Jack ( even though he said he wouldn’t), to complete the conflict of interest circle. 

[electron58]

7 hours ago, jennifer_rocket said:

I just don't understand why Letang would want to come here. Sure, Hughes used to be his agent... Still doesn't make any sense to me. Why would someone who has been competing for Cups for almost his whole career want to come and miss the playoffs with Montreal?

Agreed! I don't see it happening, and HUGO already said that the Habs probably can not make a big splash in UFA.

[electron58]

6 hours ago, maas_art said:

Ideally, id love to trade Petry to a team that is in a win-now mode for their 18-20 year old offensive defenseman.  A guy who maybe will be a top pairing guy in the future but will not help that team win now.  If Chicago, for example, is really in a win-now mode, do they deal us Nicolas Beaudin or Alec Regula as part of a package for Petry?   Then you let guys like Beaudin, Barron, Harris, Guhle, Romanov, etc fight it out for position.   You still have Edmundson & Savard as vets.  

 

1 hour ago, claremont said:

That’s not a bad thought as part of a package. RHD Regula was one of the youngest in his 2018 draft class at #67 overall and was returned to 2 more seasons of junior. There must be something in his game that Detroit could not correct before shipping him off to Chicago for the slug Perlini. Gorton seems to like these types of trades for youth and potential development - Zbanejad, Fox etc. 

LHD Beaudin - I’d pass unless he’s a throwin - we don’t really need more LHD so I’d want something else like picks or some other RHD roster development. 

Interesting. Chicago's roster lists all right hand shot defensemen, so maybe, they would be interested in one of our LHD for RHD Alec Regula. They'll certainly want to keep Nicolas Beaudin. If they were to take Jeff Petry, we'd certainly have to take one of their RHD back in any trade. (maybe 2 RHD for JP & pick?)

[electron58]

2 hours ago, Regis22 said:

Veteran presence . It would be really ( really. ) bad if all the D are rookies 

We still have Joel Edmunson & David Savard, & if we resign Chris Weidman? We'll be fine. Plus, they'll probably resign Xavier Ouellet.

[Regis22]

24 minutes ago, electron58 said:

We still have Joel Edmunson & David Savard, & if we resign Chris Weidman? We'll be fine. Plus, they'll probably resign Xavier Ouellet.

Well some would argue that Ouellette , Wideman and Savard are not NHL D men 

[electron58]

1 hour ago, Regis22 said:

Well some would argue that Ouellette , Wideman and Savard are not NHL D men 

Not disputing that, though.  We are/were paying for them, as such.

[ChiLla]

Not sure where to put this, but quite the goal by Armia in case you missed it:

 

 

[claremont]

50 minutes ago, ChiLla said:

Not sure where to put this, but quite the goal by Armia in case you missed it:

 

 

And Armia his known for blazing speed - if that's typical of Czechia defensive play - yikes!

[jennifer_rocket]

16 hours ago, H_T_L said:

Money talks.

You're not making a compelling argument for Montreal. 

[jennifer_rocket]

8 hours ago, Regis22 said:

Well some would argue that Ouellette , Wideman and Savard are not NHL D men 

Some may argue that. But... I don't see us striving to make the play-offs next season, so... Having some veterans who aren't super good is no problem for me.

[campabee82]

I don't get why some fans don't listen to Hughes when he talks, he has literally said like 100 times (exaggeration I know) that he wants to be competitive next season. That doesn't mean he wants to go all in for a cup run but it does mean that he wants a shot at making the playoffs. I don't see him going out and spending 20 mil on Letang, Perron and Bergeron but I could see him signing Perron and Letang and moving out Petry and Hoffman, as well as other small moves. IMO when Hughes says "competitive" he means he wants a shot at winning as many games as possible, which in turn means a shot at making the playoffs. Maybe it is the wrong strategy, maybe I am reading too much into his statement, I just think when Hughes says "competitive" it means winning or having a shot at winning as many games as possible. We have a decent bubble team right now (providing our coaching and injury issues are solved), the goal should always be improving the team, moving forward and eventually build a contender. So IF we are a bubble team the next logical step forward is being a playoff team (top 3 in the Atlantic), so what does that entail? Well for me we need to shore up the center position, enter Wright. Next add a top 6 winger (Perron) to replace the underachieving Hoffman, and finally replace Petry if he still wants out (Letang). Of course this still all hinges on Price and how he feels, my hunch is though that Hughes is playing his cards close to his vest and already knows what Carey's plans are headed into next season (my guess is Price is ready to go and feeling great). Carey wants to win, has said he has a NMC for a reason and proved last year that even playing injured can still be a top playoff performer. I don't think Carey retires this year, I don't think he even misses the start of the season, I think he is ready and raring to go. I get the sense that IF Carey was going to retire he would have already done so, he would not drag it on and cast doubt over the team for an extended period like this.

[BigTed3]

12 minutes ago, campabee82 said:

I don't get why some fans don't listen to Hughes when he talks, he has literally said like 100 times (exaggeration I know) that he wants to be competitive next season. That doesn't mean he wants to go all in for a cup run but it does mean that he wants a shot at making the playoffs. I don't see him going out and spending 20 mil on Letang, Perron and Bergeron but I could see him signing Perron and Letang and moving out Petry and Hoffman, as well as other small moves. IMO when Hughes says "competitive" he means he wants a shot at winning as many games as possible, which in turn means a shot at making the playoffs. Maybe it is the wrong strategy, maybe I am reading too much into his statement, I just think when Hughes says "competitive" it means winning or having a shot at winning as many games as possible. We have a decent bubble team right now (providing our coaching and injury issues are solved), the goal should always be improving the team, moving forward and eventually build a contender. So IF we are a bubble team the next logical step forward is being a playoff team (top 3 in the Atlantic), so what does that entail? Well for me we need to shore up the center position, enter Wright. Next add a top 6 winger (Perron) to replace the underachieving Hoffman, and finally replace Petry if he still wants out (Letang). Of course this still all hinges on Price and how he feels, my hunch is though that Hughes is playing his cards close to his vest and already knows what Carey's plans are headed into next season (my guess is Price is ready to go and feeling great). Carey wants to win, has said he has a NMC for a reason and proved last year that even playing injured can still be a top playoff performer. I don't think Carey retires this year, I don't think he even misses the start of the season, I think he is ready and raring to go. I get the sense that IF Carey was going to retire he would have already done so, he would not drag it on and cast doubt over the team for an extended period like this.

1. I agree that Hughes does not ascribe to an outright tank. But I also believe he does not expect the Habs will be a true challenger for the Cup and that he's realistic that this will take a couple of years to right the ship that Bergevin left him. I think what he means by being competitive is more being competitive in games, not necessarily the season as a whole. He wants a team that will go out, play exciting hockey, challenge to win games, and improve over time, kind of like we saw at the end of the season under MSL. What he doesn't want is a team in disarray with no chance of winning, as we saw under Ducharme. I also think he knows he can't have a roster with the likes of Price and Gallagher and Petry and Hoffman and outright say their aim is to finish last.

2. I'll let things play out with free agency, but I don't see much purpose in adding the likes of Perron or Letang to anything more than a 2 or maybe 3-year contract. There's no sense in handicapping yourself against the cap down the line just to try and remain a mid-pack team now, ruining your draft position without having any chance of actually winning anything.

3. I legitimately think the Price situation is up in the air. Do I believe he's healthy enough to start the season? Yes. Do I believe Price and the team are nervous about his ability to make it through an entire season in good health? Also yes. I don't think the concern is whether Price could play a 10-game tournament, it's whether he can play the role of a #1 goalie in the NHL and not hinder the team by ending up on IR for most of the year. I think there is very much doubt about that. Price has already said he doesn't want to be a burden on the team. And while I think he truly does love playing for Montreal, I also believe he wouldn't be against moving closer to home and/or moving to a team where he has a true shot at winning a Cup. I think getting so close last year was an eye-opener for him given his age and health that he does not have too many (if any) chances left. The best situation for Price is to end up in a tandem situation, where he can play 35-40 games in the regular season and be healthy for the playoffs. Could that be in Colorado? Could he be an upgrade on Mike Smith in Edmonton that puts that roster over the top? What about in LA? Dallas? Florida? Washington? Pittsburgh? St. Louis? Some of those teams are very competitive short of their goaltending situation. So from Hughes' perspective, I think you have to plan on Price not being able to shoulder a heavy workload. I think you also need to have a plan in place to fill in for Price if he should retire, be traded, or go on LTIR again. So I don't think it's as straight-forward as that. Ultimately, I think the best thing for Price would be to move to a contender and get his shot, and the best thing for the team would be to not hold onto him in years where they can't compete and try to get some more certainty in goal.

[AH64]

1 hour ago, BigTed3 said:

What about in LA? Dallas? Florida? Washington? Pittsburgh? St. Louis? Some of those teams are very competitive short of their goaltending situation

Dallas has a great goalie did you not watch the calgary dallas series? LA Kings have 2 good goalies in Petersen and Quick.  Florida has Bobs and Knight..

Washington might move on from samsonov pretty much the only team i see making a goalie change..

Penguins like Jarry. St Louis has Binger and Husso they wont make a move either.

There are many teams out there that need a goalie but the teams you listed in my opinion do not.  I am blown away at some of the teams u listed, some really good goalies on those teams.