2021-22 Rumours

[claremont]

8 minutes ago, ramcharger440 said:

at this point who cares? it is done.

Somewhat agree but Basu and Godin by publishing that article are challenging Bergevin’s competence, and opening that debate.  One either chooses to believe that Bergevin had that choice to make a trade or he did not by virtue of the CBA. I see a problem in today’s nhl market in that most GM’s including Bergevin are reluctant to make altering significant trades (Anderson for Domi excluded). It’s too easy for GM’s to sign FA’s and let expired contracts go, or pick up the occasional rental. The days of blockbusters seem slim to which this KK deal may have fit into. 
I’m not sure I understand the fuss on proposed Ryan Suzuki in that trade scenario-  are those in favour “hoping” for a Sedins like synergy? Pffft - Nick should have all the motivation he needs with the term and rich contract. Ryan Suzuki was properly scouted and has achieved very very little since his draft year. Gunler - the jury is still out but he hasn’t done much either - I go back to “who cares” 
 

[ramcharger440]

2 hours ago, claremont said:

Somewhat agree but Basu and Godin by publishing that article are challenging Bergevin’s competence, and opening that debate.  One either chooses to believe that Bergevin had that choice to make a trade or he did not by virtue of the CBA. I see a problem in today’s nhl market in that most GM’s including Bergevin are reluctant to make altering significant trades (Anderson for Domi excluded). It’s too easy for GM’s to sign FA’s and let expired contracts go, or pick up the occasional rental. The days of blockbusters seem slim to which this KK deal may have fit into. 
I’m not sure I understand the fuss on proposed Ryan Suzuki in that trade scenario-  are those in favour “hoping” for a Sedins like synergy? Pffft - Nick should have all the motivation he needs with the term and rich contract. Ryan Suzuki was properly scouted and has achieved very very little since his draft year. Gunler - the jury is still out but he hasn’t done much either - I go back to “who cares” 
 

For me it is more about these sports writers needing to keep getting paid! look at idiots like Francois Gagnon he is a known Habs hater and just loves when the team has issues when things are going good it is luck when they are going bad it is bad management when the truth is somewhere in the middle.

[CaptWelly]

3 hours ago, ramcharger440 said:

For me it is more about these sports writers needing to keep getting paid! look at idiots like Francois Gagnon he is a known Habs hater and just loves when the team has issues when things are going good it is luck when they are going bad it is bad management when the truth is somewhere in the middle.

Yes these sports writers need to get paid, but that comes down to "who cares it's done!" The writers apparently did their job as it was discussed above. Absolutely unnecessarily!!

[electron58]

10 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

Keep in mind that without the offer sheet, it could be that Carolina had an offer in place for say 4 years at 3.25M... this way, they might be doing the 6.1M x 1 year then hoping they get JK signed to 3-3.5M per year for a few more years afterwards. But there was definitely an advantage for them to not do the OS and take less of a cap hit, so it's plausible they offered more in a trade in order to avoid the OS contract...

bergebin outsmarted again. When will it end?

[CaptWelly]

9 hours ago, electron58 said:

bergebin outsmarted again. When will it end?

The only thing anyone actually knows is the offer sheet. So everything else is rumor and speculation. Almost everyone thought the offer sheet shouldn't be matched at 6.1 Million. So how was he outsmarted? All of the above is just dribble. You can not like the GM but in this case all this is is hyperbole. 

[maas_art]

2 hours ago, CaptWelly said:

The only thing anyone actually knows is the offer sheet. So everything else is rumor and speculation. Almost everyone thought the offer sheet shouldn't be matched at 6.1 Million. So how was he outsmarted? All of the above is just dribble. You can not like the GM but in this case all this is is hyperbole. 

Yeah i agree.

Im not a massive Marc Bergevin fan but in this case we have zero evidence.   He takes risks, which is the only way you're going to build a winner.  Sometimes they work - like the expansion draft ruse that allowed us to keep basically everyone he wanted - and sometimes they don't, like the offer-sheet that I think he knew was coming but probably didn't  think in a million years would be for that much money. If it had been $4m or so, JK would still be a hab. 

Ultimately you want your GM to take (calculated) risks.   This one bit him but he (somewhat) mitigated  it by using one of the picks to get a young two way centre on a good contract. 

 

[BigTed3]

Lots of rumors swirling about Eichel to the Knights. Some saying Krebs involved, others saying Theodore as the main piece.

My question: if you're the Habs, how are you not fighting harder to get in on him? Who cares if he doesn't play for the next few months, this season is shot. Why not try to go after a legit 1C? Give them Dvorak, give them Romanov, give them Guhle or Harris, give them Drouin or Gallagher or Hoffman or whoever they want almost. Not too many untouchables left on this roster to be honest.

Who here would trade Dvorak, Caufield, Harris, and a 1st for Eichel? 1st would have to be 2023 (lottery-protected top 5).

[habsisme]

8 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

Lots of rumors swirling about Eichel to the Knights. Some saying Krebs involved, others saying Theodore as the main piece.

My question: if you're the Habs, how are you not fighting harder to get in on him? Who cares if he doesn't play for the next few months, this season is shot. Why not try to go after a legit 1C? Give them Dvorak, give them Romanov, give them Guhle or Harris, give them Drouin or Gallagher or Hoffman or whoever they want almost. Not too many untouchables left on this roster to be honest.

Who here would trade Dvorak, Caufield, Harris, and a 1st for Eichel? 1st would have to be 2023 (lottery-protected top 5).

It's hard to say cause that's alot to give up. I think it depends on what you think of Caufield and what you think of Eichel. Sometimes the peices just don't add up. I'd give up anyone on the team for Eichel but I have trouble giving up draft picks and other pieces AND trade Caufield or Suzuki. To me if you have to move either one of those, I don't think we should have to move a Dvorak or a 1st. 

Another thing to consider is if Eichel will play here. My understanding is he didn't. 

[jennifer_rocket]

46 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

Lots of rumors swirling about Eichel to the Knights. Some saying Krebs involved, others saying Theodore as the main piece.

My question: if you're the Habs, how are you not fighting harder to get in on him? Who cares if he doesn't play for the next few months, this season is shot. Why not try to go after a legit 1C? Give them Dvorak, give them Romanov, give them Guhle or Harris, give them Drouin or Gallagher or Hoffman or whoever they want almost. Not too many untouchables left on this roster to be honest.

Who here would trade Dvorak, Caufield, Harris, and a 1st for Eichel? 1st would have to be 2023 (lottery-protected top 5).

I mean, isn't there a risk that his injury might completely dampen the remainder of his career?

[BigTed3]

3 hours ago, jennifer_rocket said:

I mean, isn't there a risk that his injury might completely dampen the remainder of his career?

Maybe. But every trade is subject to players passing medicals, so you have your team doctors check him out. We know how hard it is to find #1 centers, especially in their prime. I'd take the chance that this is a way to go grab one.

[campabee82]

2 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

Maybe. But every trade is subject to players passing medicals, so you have your team doctors check him out. We know how hard it is to find #1 centers, especially in their prime. I'd take the chance that this is a way to go grab one.

At this point we may as well, we aren't doing anything else this year. A package of Dvorak + Anderson + Tuch + Ylonen + 2023 1st (conditional) + 2024 1st (conditional) should get it done. See state of the Habs thread for conditions.

[Shutoutfan]

Why would Eichel want to come here? He looks at our roster and what does he see? Right now we dont look like a team that can compete within the next 2-3 years and he is age-wise in his prime. He has 4 more years after this season. What do you think can he achieve anything here? CP isnt getting younger and right now it doesnt look like we have a worthy replacement in line. The defense is in shambles. He might play out his remaining years and then move on.

[campabee82]

3 hours ago, Shutoutfan said:

Why would Eichel want to come here? He looks at our roster and what does he see? Right now we dont look like a team that can compete within the next 2-3 years and he is age-wise in his prime. He has 4 more years after this season. What do you think can he achieve anything here? CP isnt getting younger and right now it doesnt look like we have a worthy replacement in line. The defense is in shambles. He might play out his remaining years and then move on.

How about the fact that he grew up a Habs fan.

[campabee82]

To add to the above Eichel grew up loving both the Bruins and Habs as outlined in the following article. If he came here I think we could forgive the love fore the Bruins LOL.

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/29134063

[jennifer_rocket]

1 hour ago, campabee82 said:

How about the fact that he grew up a Habs fan.

My experience is that many NHL players who grew up as Habs fans could care less about playing in Montreal as professional NHLers. How often have we seen a player who grew up as a Habs fan come here? I can't think of one who wasn't a bottom-six forward or bottom-pairing D.

[BigTed3]

1 hour ago, jennifer_rocket said:

My experience is that many NHL players who grew up as Habs fans could care less about playing in Montreal as professional NHLers. How often have we seen a player who grew up as a Habs fan come here? I can't think of one who wasn't a bottom-six forward or bottom-pairing D.

I could turn that around though and ask how many top 6 forwards or top-pairing D men are UFA's with a chance to choose to come here? Most of the free agents we're getting access to are lower-tier, which is why it's so important to hold onto your draft picks, draft well, and develop well. You need to be able to retain and sign your own homegrown talent. Another reason letting Kotkaniemi dwindle and walk was a bad sign for the organization.

If I had to answer your question, I would maybe go back to Mike Cammalleri as being a top 6 forward who willingly signed here and I believe had mentioned something about someone in his family being a Habs fan. Joel Edmundson agreed to be traded here and sign because his father was a Habs fan, although questionable as to whether he's really more than a depth player. Ditto David Savard, who hasn't played like a top 4 guy. In general these Quebec-born players like Savard, Perreault, Briere, etc are coming here when they're older and washed up and want to play out their careers after having had good runs elsewhere and less market for their services.

[electron58]

12 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

I could turn that around though and ask how many top 6 forwards or top-pairing D men are UFA's with a chance to choose to come here? Most of the free agents we're getting access to are lower-tier, which is why it's so important to hold onto your draft picks, draft well, and develop well. You need to be able to retain and sign your own homegrown talent. Another reason letting Kotkaniemi dwindle and walk was a bad sign for the organization.

If I had to answer your question, I would maybe go back to Mike Cammalleri as being a top 6 forward who willingly signed here and I believe had mentioned something about someone in his family being a Habs fan. Joel Edmundson agreed to be traded here and sign because his father was a Habs fan, although questionable as to whether he's really more than a depth player. Ditto David Savard, who hasn't played like a top 4 guy. In general these Quebec-born players like Savard, Perreault, Briere, etc are coming here when they're older and washed up and want to play out their careers after having had good runs elsewhere and less market for their services.

Briere thumbed his nose at us the first time he was UFA.

[ChiLla]

If memory serves (that's big if ), Matt Duchene grew up a Habs fan as well, yet chose the Preds instead of signing here.

[campabee82]

21 minutes ago, ChiLla said:

If memory serves (that's big if ), Matt Duchene grew up a Habs fan as well, yet chose the Preds instead of signing here.

Yes he was a Habs fan however he also said it was a tough decision, perhaps what influenced his decision was he looked at our center lineup and wondered where he fit in the future. We had Danault, Suzuki and KK with Poehling and Evans both expecting to push for spots the year he was available. Danault was also worried about being pushed down the lineup so there would have been cause for concern for Duchesne as well.

[maas_art]

On 10/30/2021 at 2:41 PM, BigTed3 said:

Lots of rumors swirling about Eichel to the Knights. Some saying Krebs involved, others saying Theodore as the main piece.

My question: if you're the Habs, how are you not fighting harder to get in on him? Who cares if he doesn't play for the next few months, this season is shot. Why not try to go after a legit 1C? Give them Dvorak, give them Romanov, give them Guhle or Harris, give them Drouin or Gallagher or Hoffman or whoever they want almost. Not too many untouchables left on this roster to be honest.

Who here would trade Dvorak, Caufield, Harris, and a 1st for Eichel? 1st would have to be 2023 (lottery-protected top 5).

we still have 72 games left to play so i understand there's time to turn the season around but lets be realistic - it aint happening.   We would be much better off clearing house and making some moves to get us better. 

I would absolutely love to have a tandem of Eichel-Suzuki going forward.  I like Dvorak but yes, id move him in a heartbeat if it meant Eichel coming back.  
The other parts I also agree with but Caufield would be tough to lose.  I understand though there's probably no wait to get JE on this roster without giving up at least Suzuki or CC.    Really makes you wonder if they had tried harder to make a deal build around JK since we've lost him anyway. 

[electron58]

4 hours ago, maas_art said:

I would absolutely love to have a tandem of Eichel-Suzuki going forward.  I like Dvorak but yes, id move him in a heartbeat if it meant Eichel coming back.  
The other parts I also agree with but Caufield would be tough to lose.  I understand though there's probably no wait to get JE on this roster without giving up at least Suzuki or CC.    Really makes you wonder if they had tried harder to make a deal build around JK since we've lost him anyway. 

I still think KK in a deal for PLD, who wanted to come here, was the move to make. Water under the bridge now.

[electron58]

On 10/26/2021 at 11:19 AM, CaptWelly said:

The only thing anyone actually knows is the offer sheet. So everything else is rumor and speculation. Almost everyone thought the offer sheet shouldn't be matched at 6.1 Million. So how was he outsmarted? All of the above is just dribble. You can not like the GM but in this case all this is is hyperbole. 

Rumours have a way of getting leaked, so, if this was in fact true, then, absolutely! bergebin should be fired! I 'm sure,  that some of this stuff will come out once bergebin is fired, incl. the Subban to Edmonton rumours.

[BigTed3]

6 hours ago, maas_art said:

we still have 72 games left to play so i understand there's time to turn the season around but lets be realistic - it aint happening.   We would be much better off clearing house and making some moves to get us better. 

I would absolutely love to have a tandem of Eichel-Suzuki going forward.  I like Dvorak but yes, id move him in a heartbeat if it meant Eichel coming back.  
The other parts I also agree with but Caufield would be tough to lose.  I understand though there's probably no wait to get JE on this roster without giving up at least Suzuki or CC.    Really makes you wonder if they had tried harder to make a deal build around JK since we've lost him anyway. 

All I'm saying with that potential trade is that we're hearing of rumors with LV or Ana or the NYR or so on with 3-4 parts coming back. A package of Dvorak-Caufield-Harris-1st gives the Sabres 4 good assets and doesn't replace Eichel by any means, but it does give them a 1st rounder and a top-flight NHL-ready prospect in Caufield, as well as a middle 6 center piece in Dvorak and a guy with high upside in Harris. From the Habs end of things, as I said, the opportunity to grab a true elite center is there and I would have a hard time passing it up. Agreed that I'd hate to lose Caufield, but we're deep at wing and weak down the middle, and if the price of upgrading Dvorak to Eichel includes Caufield, I'm willing to do it. The 1st rounder I would want to top 5 protect as part of any deal in case we win the lottery. And Harris by all accounts is a mature, NHL-ready defenceman but one who may not want to play in Canada. We saw what the Rangers got in grabbing Adam Fox, so this could be a real steal for Buffalo and a "we would have lost him anyways" side of things for Montreal. Unless Bergevin really feels like we'll sign him this year, I think you are almost forced to use him as a trade chip.

[AH64]

On 10/30/2021 at 5:41 PM, BigTed3 said:

Lots of rumors swirling about Eichel to the Knights. Some saying Krebs involved, others saying Theodore as the main piece.

My question: if you're the Habs, how are you not fighting harder to get in on him? Who cares if he doesn't play for the next few months, this season is shot. Why not try to go after a legit 1C? Give them Dvorak, give them Romanov, give them Guhle or Harris, give them Drouin or Gallagher or Hoffman or whoever they want almost. Not too many untouchables left on this roster to be honest.

Who here would trade Dvorak, Caufield, Harris, and a 1st for Eichel? 1st would have to be 2023 (lottery-protected top 5).

No thanks. We have the best doctor in the league Dr Mulder,  maybe we know Eichel wont ever be good again.

[BigTed3]

2 hours ago, AH64 said:

No thanks. We have the best doctor in the league Dr Mulder,  maybe we know Eichel wont ever be good again.

How would we know that?

1. Mulder is not an orthopedic or spinal surgeon

2. Buffalo hasn't agreed to release any medical records to other teams yet