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10 minutes ago, Regis22 said:

Just out of curiosity , you suggest moving Chiarot , wideman

And kulak . Who is going to play D ? It’s not like there are any promising D men in Laval or anywhere else for that matter 

You can get bodies back. Ahl guys. If we're in rebuild mode the on-ice product doesn't matter. Plus i don't suggest trading all three at once. Trade chiarot and then play it by ear

 

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34 minutes ago, habsisme said:

You can get bodies back. Ahl guys. If we're in rebuild mode the on-ice product doesn't matter. Plus i don't suggest trading all three at once. Trade chiarot and then play it by ear

 

There’s lots of time . No point making a trade two months into the season . Do you think the AHL or guys you get bsck ins trade are going to be better . Look at Niku, big hoopla to sign him and he hasn’t bern what some hoped he would . 

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Players like Savard, Petry, Gallagher, and Price are going to be hard to move because of their contracts. In fact, the Habs have very few expiring contracts to ante up for a trade deadline, but there are a few guys I think they could/should move:

1. Chiarot: prime candidate #1. Impending UFA, playoff-type style game that GMs will go after. He should fetch a 1st, and there's no point in re-signing him, so may as well move on.

2. Lehkonen: not a UFA, but just as good if not better: he's an impending RFA and like Chiarot, his skillset is something GMs look for as they add for the playoffs. He's a youngish guy who can play a solid shutdown game and move up and down the line-up if needed. And he can be re-signed if the team so chooses. I think he too could fetch a 1st and we have a lot of wingers, so we can afford to part with him.

3. Allen: a much more palatable contract to trade, and he could be someone's #1. If a playoff team suffers an injury at goal and wants to salvage their season or if a team feels they need to platoon two goalies together and need a 2nd guy as insurance, then Allen could be their guy. There may not end up being a fit, but Allen could well end up being a valuable piece to the right team in need.

4. Drouin: still has one more year on his deal after this one, but it's not a back-breaking contract, so GMs will likely be okay with taking on that commitment. He's a potential game-changing player who can play in the top 6 and he had success with TB in the playoffs previously.

5. Perreault: impending UFA, could fetch a mid-round pick.

6. Armia: just signed a long-term deal but he's still 28, so another team could see this as an add that has value past just a rental. He was a monster in the playoffs last year and drew a lot of attention across the league for his play. He could easily fetch a nice return if the Habs find a way to trade him when he's playing well later this year.

7. Edmundson: has a couple of years left on his deal, but he's another guy viewed as a playoff performer. Might have value if he returns healthy.

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7 minutes ago, Regis22 said:

There’s lots of time . No point making a trade two months into the season . Do you think the AHL or guys you get bsck ins trade are going to be better . Look at Niku, big hoopla to sign him and he hasn’t bern what some hoped he would . 

chiarot's value is as high as its going to get, plus moving HIM now opens the door to moving a Wideman or Kulak at the deadline

 

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26 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

Players like Savard, Petry, Gallagher, and Price are going to be hard to move because of their contracts. In fact, the Habs have very few expiring contracts to ante up for a trade deadline, but there are a few guys I think they could/should move:

1. Chiarot: prime candidate #1. Impending UFA, playoff-type style game that GMs will go after. He should fetch a 1st, and there's no point in re-signing him, so may as well move on.

2. Lehkonen: not a UFA, but just as good if not better: he's an impending RFA and like Chiarot, his skillset is something GMs look for as they add for the playoffs. He's a youngish guy who can play a solid shutdown game and move up and down the line-up if needed. And he can be re-signed if the team so chooses. I think he too could fetch a 1st and we have a lot of wingers, so we can afford to part with him.

3. Allen: a much more palatable contract to trade, and he could be someone's #1. If a playoff team suffers an injury at goal and wants to salvage their season or if a team feels they need to platoon two goalies together and need a 2nd guy as insurance, then Allen could be their guy. There may not end up being a fit, but Allen could well end up being a valuable piece to the right team in need.

4. Drouin: still has one more year on his deal after this one, but it's not a back-breaking contract, so GMs will likely be okay with taking on that commitment. He's a potential game-changing player who can play in the top 6 and he had success with TB in the playoffs previously.

5. Perreault: impending UFA, could fetch a mid-round pick.

6. Armia: just signed a long-term deal but he's still 28, so another team could see this as an add that has value past just a rental. He was a monster in the playoffs last year and drew a lot of attention across the league for his play. He could easily fetch a nice return if the Habs find a way to trade him when he's playing well later this year.

7. Edmundson: has a couple of years left on his deal, but he's another guy viewed as a playoff performer. Might have value if he returns healthy.

I would also consider moving Toffoli, I like him well enough but sometimes he plays too soft. He is 29 and just came off his best season ever. His value is also pretty high right now, the return should be something like a 1st + 3rd so I would place him as number 2 on your list after Chiarot.

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26 minutes ago, habsisme said:

chiarot's value is as high as its going to get, plus moving HIM now opens the door to moving a Wideman or Kulak at the deadline

 

Well other teams don’t yet know what they need . We’re a month snd 1/2 into the season . 

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2 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

Players like Savard, Petry, Gallagher, and Price are going to be hard to move because of their contracts. In fact, the Habs have very few expiring contracts to ante up for a trade deadline, but there are a few guys I think they could/should move:

1. Chiarot: prime candidate #1. Impending UFA, playoff-type style game that GMs will go after. He should fetch a 1st, and there's no point in re-signing him, so may as well move on.

2. Lehkonen: not a UFA, but just as good if not better: he's an impending RFA and like Chiarot, his skillset is something GMs look for as they add for the playoffs. He's a youngish guy who can play a solid shutdown game and move up and down the line-up if needed. And he can be re-signed if the team so chooses. I think he too could fetch a 1st and we have a lot of wingers, so we can afford to part with him.

3. Allen: a much more palatable contract to trade, and he could be someone's #1. If a playoff team suffers an injury at goal and wants to salvage their season or if a team feels they need to platoon two goalies together and need a 2nd guy as insurance, then Allen could be their guy. There may not end up being a fit, but Allen could well end up being a valuable piece to the right team in need.

4. Drouin: still has one more year on his deal after this one, but it's not a back-breaking contract, so GMs will likely be okay with taking on that commitment. He's a potential game-changing player who can play in the top 6 and he had success with TB in the playoffs previously.

5. Perreault: impending UFA, could fetch a mid-round pick.

6. Armia: just signed a long-term deal but he's still 28, so another team could see this as an add that has value past just a rental. He was a monster in the playoffs last year and drew a lot of attention across the league for his play. He could easily fetch a nice return if the Habs find a way to trade him when he's playing well later this year.

7. Edmundson: has a couple of years left on his deal, but he's another guy viewed as a playoff performer. Might have value if he returns healthy.

Think the Avs would be interested in a Keumper-Allen duo? Would they give up Annunen + 3rd for Allen?

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https://www.prohockeyrumors.com/2021/11/snapshots-canadiens-avalanche-injuries-comeau.html

t has been a rocky start for the Canadiens this season who have managed just five victories in their first 20 games of the season just months after appearing in the Stanley Cup Final.  Despite that, GM Marc Bergevin told Sportsnet’s Eric Engels that he isn’t interested in making a trade to simply try to shake things up:

If I make one move to make one change, unless everyone else picks it up, it’s not going to make a difference. It’s well known that just making trades to make trades—especially with our situation with the cap—it just makes no sense to make a lateral move just to make a lateral move. If you’d like to make a move, it’s to make a move to make your team better. Just making a move to make a move, I’m never going to do that just to say I made a trade and here we go.

Notwithstanding Bergevin’s contract situation, a complicating factor in any move he tries to make is Montreal’s salary cap situation.  On the surface, they have plenty of room with Carey Price and Paul Byron joining Shea Weber on LTIR.  However, only Weber is out for the season so when Price and Byron are activated, they will basically be in a spot where they’ll need to match or clear money to make a move.  It’s a bit early in the year for those types of trades so don’t expect much on the trade from the Canadiens anytime soon.

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7 hours ago, Regis22 said:

https://www.prohockeyrumors.com/2021/11/snapshots-canadiens-avalanche-injuries-comeau.html

t has been a rocky start for the Canadiens this season who have managed just five victories in their first 20 games of the season just months after appearing in the Stanley Cup Final.  Despite that, GM Marc Bergevin told Sportsnet’s Eric Engels that he isn’t interested in making a trade to simply try to shake things up:

If I make one move to make one change, unless everyone else picks it up, it’s not going to make a difference. It’s well known that just making trades to make trades—especially with our situation with the cap—it just makes no sense to make a lateral move just to make a lateral move. If you’d like to make a move, it’s to make a move to make your team better. Just making a move to make a move, I’m never going to do that just to say I made a trade and here we go.

Notwithstanding Bergevin’s contract situation, a complicating factor in any move he tries to make is Montreal’s salary cap situation.  On the surface, they have plenty of room with Carey Price and Paul Byron joining Shea Weber on LTIR.  However, only Weber is out for the season so when Price and Byron are activated, they will basically be in a spot where they’ll need to match or clear money to make a move.  It’s a bit early in the year for those types of trades so don’t expect much on the trade from the Canadiens anytime soon.

Yeah i definitely dont expect us to trade to try to get better this year.  Imho if we make any trades it will be moving salary & roster players for picks, prospects and (potentially) bad contracts coming back.  

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3 hours ago, maas_art said:

Yeah i definitely dont expect us to trade to try to get better this year.  Imho if we make any trades it will be moving salary & roster players for picks, prospects and (potentially) bad contracts coming back.  

There’s a point where management admits the season is lost (one could argue on percentage odds it’s now), but the trading point has to match other teams needs to push them into competitive playoff positions - captain obvious says that’s too early at present as only at the 1/4 point, so we are best to wait until demand increases vs dump now. 
I agree with you that a long view is required - I expect Chiarot as a minimum to go and possibly Lehks, Kulak or Byron if he plays well. I’d be surprised if Savard or Armia, or Hoffman get moved as that’s basically an admission by Bergevin that he made mistakes on signing or acquiring their contract. MB is too arrogant to confess to that. 
interesting on picking up a dead weight contract from a contender - will have to explore that 

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12 minutes ago, claremont said:

There’s a point where management admits the season is lost (one could argue on percentage odds it’s now), but the trading point has to match other teams needs to push them into competitive playoff positions - captain obvious says that’s too early at present as only at the 1/4 point, so we are best to wait until demand increases vs dump now. 
I agree with you that a long view is required - I expect Chiarot as a minimum to go and possibly Lehks, Kulak or Byron if he plays well. I’d be surprised if Savard or Armia, or Hoffman get moved as that’s basically an admission by Bergevin that he made mistakes on signing or acquiring their contract. MB is too arrogant to confess to that. 
interesting on picking up a dead weight contract from a contender - will have to explore that 

Yeah, i would be surprised to see much happen right now.  That said, if there were offers that included 1st round picks i would be chasing them at present.  If you wait till deadline, the chances or one of theose pics being top sub top 15 are almost nil because you'll be trading with playoff teams.  Get a team's first round pick right now & if they hit a bad spell... you never know.

I do think MB might move a guy like Hoffman or Savard (if there's any interest) if the price is right.  He is always good at soundbytes - something like "we hate to see him go, but when you get a chance to trade for ____ you have to take it"

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14 minutes ago, maas_art said:

Yeah, i would be surprised to see much happen right now.  That said, if there were offers that included 1st round picks i would be chasing them at present.  If you wait till deadline, the chances or one of theose pics being top sub top 15 are almost nil because you'll be trading with playoff teams.  Get a team's first round pick right now & if they hit a bad spell... you never know.

I do think MB might move a guy like Hoffman or Savard (if there's any interest) if the price is right.  He is always good at soundbytes - something like "we hate to see him go, but when you get a chance to trade for ____ you have to take it"

You also have to believe that certain teams not squarely in the playoffs but who are battling will want to lottery protect their picks for top 3 or top 5 or top 10 or so on. One of the other ways to really try and go after a lottery pick is to take a later year pick. In general, this year's draft is not that fantastic at the top, but the 2023 draft is supposed to be a lot more interesting with Connor Bedard and others. So if I were MB, I'd be looking for a team that might not be as good next year as they are this year. Someone with aging players or expiring contracts. The Bruins come to mind as a team where we don't know if Bergeron will retire and where teams like Ottawa and Detroit are getting stronger within the division. Is Boston next year better than Tampa, Toronto, and Florida or are they battling for a wildcard? The Flyers are another team that doesn't seem to have a lot of direction at the moment. They have a bunch of guys over the age of 30 in their core and they went out and acquired a lot of expiring D contracts like Yandle and Braun and Ristolainen, not to mention their captain Claude Giroux will be a UFA too. So it's a franchise where you wonder they might be trying to push cards in this year but be in a not-so-great position next year (and a franchise that loves tough D men like Chiarot to boot). The Pens are yet another... Crosby's getting older, Malkin and Letang and Carter have expiring contracts this year... are they heading towards a re-build after this season but interested in making a push now? The Stars are counting on the likes of Benn, Radulov, Seguin, Klingberg, Suter, and Pavelski, many of whom are past prime and/or UFAs. Could be an all-in year for them too. The Jets aren't in the same position as some of the others, but they had Chiarot before and might want him back, and they have some great forwards but are paper-thin on D. For that reason, they have a wide range of possible finishing positions and could end up in the draft lottery in my view, and I'd say the Oilers are in a very similar position to the Jets. They could ride a great forward group to a being a top 5 team in the league but could also be out of the playoffs given how bad their D and goaltending are and how much money they have tied up in the forwards. And lastly, Calgary, who have Gaudreau expiring and who also have a bit of a shakily-constructed roster.

Any of those teams could be interesting trade partners for us this season if we target a 2023 1st and/or a top prospect in a trade return, and I think that's a good strategy for a good GM to turn patience in waiting for your payout into an elite talent.

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3 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

Any of those teams could be interesting trade partners for us this season if we target a 2023 1st and/or a top prospect in a trade return, and I think that's a good strategy for a good GM to turn patience in waiting for your payout into an elite talent.

we need one of those first... :rolleyes:

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Interesting rumor #1: NY papers reporting that the Rangers want to add a player to replace the injured Sammy Blais and that Artturi Lehkonen is a name being tossed around as a higher-tier bottom 6 player.

Interesting rumor #2: Elliotte Friedman reporting that the Oilers are a prime candidate to acquire Ben Chiarot in a trade. Jeff Marek also reporting that the Oilers are in on Chiarot and that Ken Holland has told his management group he is willing to part with his 1st rounder or top prospects to upgrade the left side of his D. Holland is obviously someone from the antiquated era of judging talent and probably rates Ben Chiarot as highly as any other GM or exec. So it could be a good fit for us to either grab a 1st rounder back (again either 2022 or 2023) and another asset or a good prospect. David Savard was dealt at the deadline last year and is arguably a worse player than Chiarot, and he garnered a 1st and a 3rd as a return. So I don't think this is unreasonable to go after one of their 1st's or to go after a prospect like Philip Broberg or Dylan Holloway or Xavier Bourgault.

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1 minute ago, BigTed3 said:

Interesting rumor #1: NY papers reporting that the Rangers want to add a player to replace the injured Sammy Blais and that Artturi Lehkonen is a name being tossed around as a higher-tier bottom 6 player.

Interesting rumor #2: Elliotte Friedman reporting that the Oilers are a prime candidate to acquire Ben Chiarot in a trade. Jeff Marek also reporting that the Oilers are in on Chiarot and that Ken Holland has told his management group he is willing to part with his 1st rounder or top prospects to upgrade the left side of his D. Holland is obviously someone from the antiquated era of judging talent and probably rates Ben Chiarot as highly as any other GM or exec. So it could be a good fit for us to either grab a 1st rounder back (again either 2022 or 2023) and another asset or a good prospect. David Savard was dealt at the deadline last year and is arguably a worse player than Chiarot, and he garnered a 1st and a 3rd as a return. So I don't think this is unreasonable to go after one of their 1st's or to go after a prospect like Philip Broberg or Dylan Holloway or Xavier Bourgault.

I like those rumours. Lehkonen is an RFA next year still so I don't want dump him  for nothing. I'm hesitant to take less than a first, but maybe two seconds would make sense. I'd prefer to trade one of the "top 6" winger and let guys like lehkonen and armia play up the line up, but we're deep on wing, so getting rid of any of them is a good move

Chiarot is a GREAT bottom pairing guy and I honestly think he's a good #4 (second pairing but not the better player of the pair). More than a first is perfectly possible but it makes sense to do it for as little as a first anyway so its a can't lose trade to move him

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1 hour ago, BigTed3 said:

Interesting rumor #1: NY papers reporting that the Rangers want to add a player to replace the injured Sammy Blais and that Artturi Lehkonen is a name being tossed around as a higher-tier bottom 6 player.

Interesting rumor #2: Elliotte Friedman reporting that the Oilers are a prime candidate to acquire Ben Chiarot in a trade. Jeff Marek also reporting that the Oilers are in on Chiarot and that Ken Holland has told his management group he is willing to part with his 1st rounder or top prospects to upgrade the left side of his D. Holland is obviously someone from the antiquated era of judging talent and probably rates Ben Chiarot as highly as any other GM or exec. So it could be a good fit for us to either grab a 1st rounder back (again either 2022 or 2023) and another asset or a good prospect. David Savard was dealt at the deadline last year and is arguably a worse player than Chiarot, and he garnered a 1st and a 3rd as a return. So I don't think this is unreasonable to go after one of their 1st's or to go after a prospect like Philip Broberg or Dylan Holloway or Xavier Bourgault.

Agree on Chiarot - if you don’t get the first or a significant former first like Holloway - LW / Bourgault - C , is a 2nd plus Raphael Lavoie or Matvei Petrov sufficient? 

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10 minutes ago, claremont said:

Agree on Chiarot - if you don’t get the first or a significant former first like Holloway - LW / Bourgault - C , is a 2nd plus Raphael Lavoie or Matvei Petrov sufficient? 

We're not compelled to trade him now nor to a specific team. But you can't hold onto him past the deadline. So you take the best offer you can get. If there's a 1st rounder or top prospect to be had now, I'd take it. If not, I'd wait until closer to the deadline.

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10 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

We're not compelled to trade him now nor to a specific team. But you can't hold onto him past the deadline. So you take the best offer you can get. If there's a 1st rounder or top prospect to be had now, I'd take it. If not, I'd wait until closer to the deadline.

The urgency for the Oilers seems to have grown as LHD Duncan Keith has a upper body injury (likely Back). Depending on severity that leaves them very exposed during the trial of Broberg with only Russell (34) and Lagesson as fill ins. If I am Holland and have declared “All-in”, I look for a Chiarot type to provide toughness back there, depth , and to spell Keith, Nurse, Broberg when they get all 3 LHD back. If I’m Bergevin, I target their prospect C Xavier Bourgault (22nd overall) who is likely one of their better prospects (Holloway vs Petrov vs Lavoie) and has the added bonus of appeasing the francophone pundits. #1 draft pick of the Oilers isn’t a bad alternative. 

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14 hours ago, habsisme said:

Chiarot is a GREAT bottom pairing guy and I honestly think he's a good #4 (second pairing but not the better player of the pair). More than a first is perfectly possible but it makes sense to do it for as little as a first anyway so its a can't lose trade to move him

The problem with guys like chiarot, savard*, edmundson etc isnt that they arent good players. They are all NHL defensmen & honestly would probably find a home on every single team in the league.  The problem is the suporting cast we have around them.  Any one of them is fine in the top 4. But we are inclined to play all 3 there. Thats nexer going to work.  You can even get away with two there if you have 2 other top end dmen.  Last year with Edmundson & chiarot in your top 4... was great n the playoffs (ed really upped his game) but I think would have been ok in the regular season too if Weber wasnt a shell of his former self most of last year. 

(*this year he's looked abysmal though)

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1 hour ago, campabee82 said:

Wonder with all the desperation if you could pry Bourgault and a 2nd (Savard deadline type of deal) or something similar.

I would be excited for Bourgault - a sizable Centre at 6ft and we need some centre prospects in our pool now vs waiting for the draft. I’ve mentioned some other teams drafted centers in a previous post 

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