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2 hours ago, maas_art said:

Some encouraging words from Gorton in his Presser this AM:

 
Gorton: I believe in analytics. I feel we need to build that out better.
 
Gorton: I think we need more when it comes to development. They need help as soon as we draft them. We need to do better there too.

Obviously he reads the Habs fan forum. 

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4 hours ago, jennifer_rocket said:

Concerning Price, how much salary retention would you consider to be too much salary retention? I think it's likely that Gorton at least asks him about the possibility of a trade. Perhaps Carey and his family would be open to it, perhaps they would want to stay. I'd be open to retaining up to $2.5 million in annual salary.

it depends the return. I'm willing to retain the full 50% if that's what it takes and we get something significant back. 

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4 hours ago, jennifer_rocket said:

Concerning Price, how much salary retention would you consider to be too much salary retention? I think it's likely that Gorton at least asks him about the possibility of a trade. Perhaps Carey and his family would be open to it, perhaps they would want to stay. I'd be open to retaining up to $2.5 million in annual salary.

It's a good question and my answer depends on the time frame for a rebuild to become competitive. Carey has 4 more years after this at $10.5M in a slightly increasing cap world. I'd like to see a declining scale. We are certainly not going to be a contender next year 2022-23, so $5M is acceptable retention, and perhaps the following year. That may be great for a team targeting a competitive window of acquiring a solid goalie for a modest amount. If we think we can be competitive 2 years after this 2024-25, then $2.5M or less is much easier to accept as it doesn't handcuff us as much. 

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4 minutes ago, claremont said:

It's a good question and my answer depends on the time frame for a rebuild to become competitive. Carey has 4 more years after this at $10.5M in a slightly increasing cap world. I'd like to see a declining scale. We are certainly not going to be a contender next year 2022-23, so $5M is acceptable retention, and perhaps the following year. That may be great for a team targeting a competitive window of acquiring a solid goalie for a modest amount. If we think we can be competitive 2 years after this 2024-25, then $2.5M or less is much easier to accept as it doesn't handcuff us as much. 

that would be ideal but i don't think you can do that. You have to retain the same percentage throughout the life of the contract. I think we just have to accept that in year 3 and 4, its gonna hurt but hopefully we get something in  return to help ease the pain

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5 hours ago, jennifer_rocket said:

Concerning Price, how much salary retention would you consider to be too much salary retention? I think it's likely that Gorton at least asks him about the possibility of a trade. Perhaps Carey and his family would be open to it, perhaps they would want to stay. I'd be open to retaining up to $2.5 million in annual salary.

 

33 minutes ago, habsisme said:

it depends the return. I'm willing to retain the full 50% if that's what it takes and we get something significant back. 

Same.  Price still has good hockey left in him so im not trading him to just 'get out from his contract.'  Is he worth $10.5m? No, but if we go full rebuild money wont be an issue for a while anyway.  So im only trading him for assets that will be ready when our window is more clear (and obviously to give him a chance to win elsewhere). 

So i dont mind retaining some salary to get the job done but unless we're getting a really valueable piece, im not taking back a lot. 

1 hour ago, habs1952 said:

Obviously he reads the Habs fan forum. 

Haha.   Im not the biggest "advanced stats" guy but like any other tool i think it has some value. I think turning a blind eye to it has always been a mistake.  You may disagree with some of it & you may make a decision as GM that goes contrary to what your advanced stat guy tells you but at very least you should have that info at your disposal. 

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1 minute ago, maas_art said:

 

Same.  Price still has good hockey left in him so im not trading him to just 'get out from his contract.'  Is he worth $10.5m? No, but if we go full rebuild money wont be an issue for a while anyway.  So im only trading him for assets that will be ready when our window is more clear (and obviously to give him a chance to win elsewhere). 

So i dont mind retaining some salary to get the job done but unless we're getting a really valueable piece, im not taking back a lot. 

Haha.   Im not the biggest "advanced stats" guy but like any other tool i think it has some value. I think turning a blind eye to it has always been a mistake.  You may disagree with some of it & you may make a decision as GM that goes contrary to what your advanced stat guy tells you but at very least you should have that info at your disposal. 

I agree100% on the stats issue it is a great tool it does not tell the whole story in my mind at least but only a fool does not use any tool he can to get the best possible result.

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1 hour ago, ramcharger440 said:

I agree100% on the stats issue it is a great tool it does not tell the whole story in my mind at least but only a fool does not use any tool he can to get the best possible result.

And bergebin got rid of his stats guy!

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https://thehockeywriters.com/nhl-rumors-december-3-2021/

According to Darren Dreger, who made an appearance on TSN 690, when asked if any teams might have interest in Brendan Gallagher out of Montreal, he responded that he would think so. He noted, “I do because of the character of the individual.” He adds, “It’s not an easy move to make though. If you’re a contending team chances are you’re a cap team, so what are the Canadiens taking back?”

Dreger wonders if the Canadiens would have to give up a piece (a sweetener) they don’t want to in order to make a deal work where they can take a short-term, expiring contract back.

 

Chiarot Will Fetch a First-Round Pick

Meanwhile, defenseman Ben Chiarot knows it’s likely he’ll get moved by Jeff Gorton ahead of the trade deadline. He said, “You see it every year, guys on expiring contracts get moved.” One NHL executive said, “There’s been chatter in the market about Chiarot for weeks already.”

Speculation is that the Canadiens should be able to get a first-round pick in return for Chiarot

… I spoke with a few contending teams today who value him greatly and here’s a guy who can absolutely fetch a first-round pick given the dearth of rental defencemen available. He was terrific during the Habs’ playoff run to the Stanley Cup Final last year.”

Related: Maple Leafs News & Rumors: Matthews, Campbell, Hyman & Dermott

In other Canadiens news, it was announced that head coach Dominique Ducharme will serve as coach of the team for the rest of the season. Gorton also told media during an avail on Friday that a GM won’t be hired until after Christmas. It also sounds like forward Josh Anderson will miss at least 2-4 weeks with an injury.

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9 hours ago, jennifer_rocket said:

Concerning Price, how much salary retention would you consider to be too much salary retention? I think it's likely that Gorton at least asks him about the possibility of a trade. Perhaps Carey and his family would be open to it, perhaps they would want to stay. I'd be open to retaining up to $2.5 million in annual salary.

That's around where I am too, 2-2.5M retained salary. It means the other team is getting a #1 for 8M a season, which is not unreasonable. It also means that if we sign a new guy for 5.5M, we're paying the same thing as the other team. If you retain 50% salary and you got out and get a new #1 for 5M a year, it means you're still effectively paying 10M+ for your starting goalie. So what's the advantage to that? Sure, if you were retaining salary for one year when you're not a contender, that's different. But we should be hoping to be back in contention in 2 years and we can't be hanging 4-5M on our cap in dead space. It's a huge handicap. So 2-2.5M for me, as long as it increases the value of the return. I wouldn't trade Price as a salary dump, he's worth more to us as a starting goalie at 10.5M than he is at 5M of dead cap space with no assets coming back.

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22 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

That's around where I am too, 2-2.5M retained salary. It means the other team is getting a #1 for 8M a season, which is not unreasonable. It also means that if we sign a new guy for 5.5M, we're paying the same thing as the other team. If you retain 50% salary and you got out and get a new #1 for 5M a year, it means you're still effectively paying 10M+ for your starting goalie. So what's the advantage to that? Sure, if you were retaining salary for one year when you're not a contender, that's different. But we should be hoping to be back in contention in 2 years and we can't be hanging 4-5M on our cap in dead space. It's a huge handicap. So 2-2.5M for me, as long as it increases the value of the return. I wouldn't trade Price as a salary dump, he's worth more to us as a starting goalie at 10.5M than he is at 5M of dead cap space with no assets coming back.

I think its worth retaining 50% salary if its getting a top 5 pick, or the A+ level prospect, than its worth doing it. It's unfortunte that it will hurt us in years 3 and 4 but its a reality we have to accept. But I see NO reason in just dumping him for nothing. 

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2 hours ago, habsisme said:

I think its worth retaining 50% salary if its getting a top 5 pick, or the A+ level prospect, than its worth doing it. It's unfortunte that it will hurt us in years 3 and 4 but its a reality we have to accept. But I see NO reason in just dumping him for nothing. 

50% is 5.25M though. I'm just saying that you need to add that amount to whoever's replacing him's salary to generate the difference in savings. Let's say the alternative is to go with Allen as a #1 and find another goalie to play tandem with him. Well then the difference in salary to your #1 is 10.5M down to 2.9M and that's probably about as good as you're going to get for a starting goalie. But if you add the 5.25M to the 2.9M, then you're paying over 8M in cap hit for the next 4 years to be left with Allen as your starter. So would you rather have Price-Primeau as a duo for 11.5M and trade Allen or Allen-Primeau as a duo for 4M and be paying Price an extra 5M? Is that extra 2.5M in cap space worth the downgrade in net and the return on what you're getting? I'll say right off the top that we're not getting a top 5 pick for Price. Any team picking top 5 isn't a Cup contender in the short term, which means their priority isn't a goalie in his mid-30s, nor is it likely that Price waives his NTC to go to that team at this stage in his career. If Price is going anywhere, it's because it's closer to home in BC and/or it's giving him a significant chance of winning a Cup. I could see him saying yes to Colorado, Vancouver, Edmonton, Toronto, NY Rangers, Washington, Pittsburgh, Vegas, Florida, Dallas, maybe an outside shot at a team like Calgary, NJ, or the Islanders. But not all those teams need goalies and not all those teams have cap space. So it would have to be a pretty impressive offer to get me to eat 5.25M for 4 years and I'm not sure what another team would come up with to make it worth it.

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30 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

50% is 5.25M though. I'm just saying that you need to add that amount to whoever's replacing him's salary to generate the difference in savings. Let's say the alternative is to go with Allen as a #1 and find another goalie to play tandem with him. Well then the difference in salary to your #1 is 10.5M down to 2.9M and that's probably about as good as you're going to get for a starting goalie. But if you add the 5.25M to the 2.9M, then you're paying over 8M in cap hit for the next 4 years to be left with Allen as your starter. So would you rather have Price-Primeau as a duo for 11.5M and trade Allen or Allen-Primeau as a duo for 4M and be paying Price an extra 5M? Is that extra 2.5M in cap space worth the downgrade in net and the return on what you're getting? I'll say right off the top that we're not getting a top 5 pick for Price. Any team picking top 5 isn't a Cup contender in the short term, which means their priority isn't a goalie in his mid-30s, nor is it likely that Price waives his NTC to go to that team at this stage in his career. If Price is going anywhere, it's because it's closer to home in BC and/or it's giving him a significant chance of winning a Cup. I could see him saying yes to Colorado, Vancouver, Edmonton, Toronto, NY Rangers, Washington, Pittsburgh, Vegas, Florida, Dallas, maybe an outside shot at a team like Calgary, NJ, or the Islanders. But not all those teams need goalies and not all those teams have cap space. So it would have to be a pretty impressive offer to get me to eat 5.25M for 4 years and I'm not sure what another team would come up with to make it worth it.

I really don't know my prospects really well but say getting Byram, one or two years (its too late now) would be worth 5.25. Is maybe Newhook and two firsts worth 5.25? Cause if I'm Colorado I'd happily pay that for Price at 5.25. Price at 8 million is worth at MOST a first round pick. I'd rather eat the extra money if it will get us more. I don't see us being real contender in year 3/4 anyway. We'll probably be like a bubble playoff team again. I might be wrong but its gotta be at least 50% im right. I might be wrong about some kind of deal like this being available but I would make it if I could. 

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2 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

Not sure why LA made Kale Clague available again but he's a 23 year-old LHD with offensive upside available on waivers. We'll find out today if Gorton likes him enough to claim him. Only Ari and Ott have dibs ahead of us...

HABS CLAIM CLAGUE! YES!!! Go Gorton.

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5 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

HABS CLAIM CLAGUE! YES!!! Go Gorton.

And that’s the end of Schueneman’s call up. I haven’t seen enough of Clague but his junior stats and draft position seem solid enough. Kind of looks like an underachiever to me and needs a fresh start. Might be sign that Chiarot is being shopped or Norlinder is about to be returned to Sweden after his trial is up? 

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All of Clague's goals from 19-20 AHL. He's #10.

Clague is a 23 year old left shot defender who was a second round pick in the 2016 NHL Draft. He is somewhat in between being a great AHL player but not quite a full-time NHL regular for the Kings right now. 

First of all, he is an intriguing prospect who still might develop into a good NHL player. He has put up solid offensive numbers at the AHL level, and scored five points in 11 games with the Kings this season.

 

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I like this move a lot! he is the kind of player we need to have as an LHD. If he pans out it is a steal if not he is gone at the end of the year anyways! the point is he moves the puck! this is what players like Zuke and CC need someone who can move the puck it helps them exit with speed into the neutral zone! and we sure need help on D! So far for a first move this looks like a breath of fresh air good stuff.

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1 hour ago, kinot-2 said:

All of Clague's goals from 19-20 AHL. He's #10.

Clague is a 23 year old left shot defender who was a second round pick in the 2016 NHL Draft. He is somewhat in between being a great AHL player but not quite a full-time NHL regular for the Kings right now. 

First of all, he is an intriguing prospect who still might develop into a good NHL player. He has put up solid offensive numbers at the AHL level, and scored five points in 11 games with the Kings this season.

 

Kinda like Sami Niku?

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